New definition of sheriffnado!!! [Archive]

Jason Boggs

04-02-2007, 03:07 AM

I wasn't going to talk about this but I have to get it off my chest. As you know most sheriffnadoes are reports of tornadoes by sheriffs or law enforcement that aren't really tornadoes. I have a new definition of a sheriffnado.

Last Wednesday when everyone and their dog was near Brice, I had a sheriff in a dark gray colored chevy pickup pass me in the left lane with lights and sirens on and he stayed in the left lane for at least a half mile and then slowed way down. Well, there was a tour van in front of me that passed him in the right lane and I also passed the sheriff in the right lane. After I passed the sheriff he got behind me and with lights and siren still going. He then got in the left lane and pulled up beside me and pointed at me to pull over. At this point, I thought he was just stopping traffic from going any further down the road because of the tornado. As he walked up I said I was with the media and he said " I don't care! Get out of that truck, and then proceeded to grab my door and slam it shut. I was like wow! He then stated that he was going to arrest me and impound my vehicle. I was absolutely shocked at this point. He said that I could have killed him back there and he also stated that I ignored him when he tried to pull me over. I told him that I had no idea that he wanted to pull me over because he had his lights and siren running the whole time. I told him that I knew he wanted me to pull over when he pulled up beside me and pointed at me to pull over. He threatened me a couple of more times that he should arrest me and I just kept my mouth shut. I knew I was not in the wrong but I didn't want to escalate the situation even further. I apologized (even though there was nothing to apologize for.) He got the number to the station I work for and called the assignments editor that night. Here is what makes me mad. He told the guy at the station that I came up behind him at a high rate of speed and ran him off the road into the ditch! That ticked me off. A law enforcement official telling a bald faced lie like that really made me upset. I have it on tape and yea I admit that I should have let him get back in the right hand lane but I thought he was going to keep driving in the left hand lane. I sure didn't run him off the road. After filming the best tornado of my life, I get pulled over and threatened to be arrested by a sheriff....now that's a new and improved version of a sherrifnado!!!

I respect law enforcement officials as much as I do anybody. Most of them do their job very well and are very helpful to the community. I did not post this to bash any law enforcement officials at all. PERIOD! I know there are current and ex law enforcement officials on this board, and I have to ask this question. Did I do anything that could have gotten me arrested, or was this guy just having a bad day? And, did anybody else have any problems with this particular sheriff on Wed?

Joey Ketcham

04-02-2007, 03:51 AM

That sucks. You said you have it on tape, have you taken that tape to that deputy’s supervisor and let them see/listen to it? If not, you need to do so. Being in law enforcement doesn’t give them the right to bully people around, and when it happens – like in your case – you need to take it up with the supervisor.

I’ve always heard about all these horror stories of media personnel being harassed by law enforcers. I guess I got lucky, during my almost 5 year stint as a news photographer we had a wonderful relationship with each department in our DMA and I can honestly say I never had any bad experiences with any law enforcement officers during that time - and even to this day I haven't ever had any bad experiences with any officers in this area.

Almost every day during my career at the TV station I worked alongside of the crime reporter so I was around law enforcement officers everyday and got to know them by first name basis – but then again the TV station is a Pittsburg KS/Joplin MO (144) market so the departments aren’t that big to begin with – but still the relationship was awesome and common courtesy went both ways between us and local PD’s.

Jason Boggs

04-02-2007, 05:09 AM

Mikey Gribble

04-02-2007, 05:57 AM

I haven't had too many problems with cops while on a storm, but I am aware of several instances where they tried to play god with other chasers. I get extremely irritated by the cops that act like chasers aren't qualified to safely be in close on a tornado, but they think that they themselves are qualified. The ironic thing is that I have heard of several cops driving into tornadoes, but I haven't ever heard of a chaser doing it.

If I were you Jason, I would do everything I could to pull that guys pants down. You can't argue with cops on the side of the road. You are never going to win that argument, but if he was in the wrong you ought to do what you can to make things right after the fact. I would be more than a little pissed off if a cop called the station and was bad mouthing me.

Tarmo Tanilsoo

04-02-2007, 06:30 AM

I didn't get arrested, so I think at this point, I will leave it alone.
Don't. If you leave it alone, then the officer might do something like this to another chaser and maybe even ruin his/her reputation(remember: he already lied about you!).

I agree with Michael.

Joey Ketcham

04-02-2007, 06:38 AM

I haven't taken the tape for anybody to see. I didn't get arrested, so I think at this point, I will leave it alone. It almost seems like he had it out for me for some reason. Anyway, I hope I never run across that loser again.

Screw that, arrested or not that deputy had no right to do to you what he did - and if it were me I'll be damn if I let that guy get away with that. If not you, it's hard telling who all will be harassed next and to what extent. That guy has no right to be in law enforcement.

John Diel

04-02-2007, 07:35 AM

On principle, I tend to agree that the Deputy was a bit overboard and then flat wrong in his comments during the station call. All that aside, I think that this far into it, I would let it alone as well. Nothing really came of it other than some bruised feelings.

My take on some of the more rural counties in Texas (and other Midwest states!) is that the Sheriff's Department is the law. Period. If you manage to get into a testosterone contest with them, you will eventually lose. Even if you don't "lose" they will remember you. The next time you're in that county, well, watch out for calibrated eyeballs.

That being said, Did you do anything to warrant an arrest? Not that I can figure. A minor traffic violation at best for passing on the right and possibly a failure to yield for emergency vehicles.

I would say, take the whole thing as a learning experience and don't pass "moving" emergency vehicles on the right. :D

Jay McCoy

04-02-2007, 08:09 AM

Jason,

You know I work directly with law enforcement on a daily basis and what this "deputy" did was not only wrong. it borders on illegal. he made a false statement to your employer which could have had financial consequences. I seriously doubt the sheriff of that county or its citizens would tolerate such character from one of its cops. he passed you running code3 and you yielded as you should have. he then proceeeded to stay in the wrong lane for some time never trying to pull back over and then also allowed a tour van to pass him with no consequences. For him to single you out tells me he was looking for a target. maybe he has something against you station. If he would have let it go out in the field then I think dropping it would have been best BUT he called your boss and tried to get you either in hot water or fired.. that is inexcusable!!!

whether you were arrested or not your reputation and that of your station is being subjected to wrongfull persecution. The best thing to do is send an email to the sheriff explaining exactly what happened including him calling your boss and lying and also explain you have a tape of the incident. If he cares anything about his department and their reputation he will look into it. If not then there isnt much you can do short of a civil suit or better yet an expose of the whole thing on the news :)

I can tell you now every dept has some "Barney Fife" just looking to throw his weight around. Especially in the small town circles. But most of the guys I work with are honest and hard working cops as are most cops in general.

If you dont stand up to this jerk he will do it to somebody else again. Most likely another chaser. I can promise if it had happened to me not only would I have asked for his supervisor right then and there I would have gotten on my radio and asked for him myself on that guys own frequency..

Also a good word of advice. if anybody has a dispute with a local deputy it is better to call for a state trooper instead of another one of his buddies.

Van DeWald

04-02-2007, 08:10 AM

I know in one north central Kansas county, the LE officials have indicated that if they see a storm chaser doing "anything" wrong, they are going to ticket and possibly arrest them. This is a result of some bad incidents with storm chasers previously in the last couple of years, and I guess they've had it. Can't remember the county for sure, but there definitely certain LE officials that don't like chasers, period.

David Drummond

04-02-2007, 08:55 AM

Dude, I saw that guy. I saw when he had you pulled over. Several others and myself passed by. Right after I passed by he got in his truck and started coming up real fast, lights and siren going. I pulled over and he passed me, the I went on. He kept going IN THE ONCOMING LANE and passed a few other chasers. Then he pulled over on a pullout and was blowing his siren at each of us as we passed.

I don't know if he was having some sort of breakdown from the shear number of "visitors" that suddenly appeared on his normally calm road, or if the sight of that long lived tornado was just too much for him, but he was definitely loosing it.

Mikey Gribble

04-02-2007, 09:01 AM

If the guy hadn't called the station, I would let it go, but calling the station like that is way out of line.

Zac Flamig

04-02-2007, 06:03 PM

Funny that you should bring this up...

We encountered a Sheriff and some others having a bad time near the intersection of 70 and 256. This was after the long lived tornado and we were watching another meso that had produced a funnel when the Sheriff pulled up and started 'blocking' the road. He was basically just parked in one of the lanes and no one could really decide what he was doing.

Another chaser droved passed this area and was flagged over by one of the Sheriffs(There was actually another female yelling at the car first, I'm not sure if she was a sheriff or not). We don't actually know what caused the reaction but the Sheriff proceeded to go over and open the door and yell at the driver, he was literally right in the drivers face screaming at him. This went on for a little bit before the Sheriff slammed the drivers door and stormed off.

Gerard Jebaily has the last part or so of the Sheriff screaming at the guy and slamming the door on tape. Clearly what you encountered was not an isolated incident out there Jason.

Jay McCoy

04-02-2007, 07:06 PM

Dan Robinson

04-02-2007, 07:14 PM

I'd go beyond Youtube on this. Take the video to every TV station in town and have them feed it to the national networks. I can almost guarantee they'll seriously consider doing a story. With the number of police brutality cases in the news lately, this would fit right in.

The more footage from different chasers, the better. If there are already two accounts here in this thread, there are probably more.

As a side note, I fully respect the police, and most are upstanding and without blame. But when things go out of line, it is a serious issue, no matter who it is.

Ben Baranowski

04-02-2007, 08:52 PM

David Drummond

04-02-2007, 09:08 PM

Jason, do you remember if this was still in Brisco County or after you crossed over in to Hall County? I think when I saw you it was stll in Brisco, plus that Sheriff truck looks just like the one that was blocking the road in to Silverton when the tornado was about to hit there.

Jay McCoy

04-02-2007, 11:31 PM

Let me state right off the bat, that I agree with all the other posts. This cop had no right to do what he did and it tarnishes the image of law enforcement. I would also agree you should take this up with the proper "authorites". However, my wife grew up in small town OK very near to the TX panhandle and the stories I hear are horrible. Most likely anybody you talk to in any position of authority is this cops best buddy or worse a family member. That seems to be the way that it works (well at least the towns she's lived in). I'm not saying don't try to have the cop repremanded, but don't expect much to come of it.

They are all buddies on these small forces but no elected sheriff wants to look bad or have his department held up to scrutiny. Thats why I think posting the videos on Youtube would work best. Let the public see what happened and decide for themselves. I promise the shreiff wont like it being seen and will deal with it as fast as he can so it goes away.

Earl Faubion

04-03-2007, 01:04 AM

I know there are current and ex law enforcement officials on this board, and I have to ask this question. Did I do anything that could have gotten me arrested, or was this guy just having a bad day?

Jason, after 27 years in law enforcement (now retired) there is no way I can answer your question. You're the agrieved party so you're the one who has to make the decision whether to file a complaint. I could speculate all day long about what the deputy's frame of mind may have been, but that's pointless because your question would still be unanswered. You strike me as a level headed individual so I think you will make the right decision.

Marko Korosec

04-03-2007, 02:33 AM

Totally agree with the posts above, that guys had no right to do something like that, smells like illegal thing to me as well. Sorry to hear about your bad experience and hopefully you won't have any bad consequences, Jason.
They are all buddies on these small forces but no elected sheriff wants to look bad or have his department held up to scrutiny. Thats why I think posting the videos on Youtube would work best. Let the public see what happened and decide for themselves. I promise the shreiff wont like it being seen and will deal with it as fast as he can so it goes away.
I agree that this should be shown to people, but I'd suggest to show the tape to the local TV station or something similar, which would lead them (media, people and police) think. With posting on youtube, sure many people would see it, but no serious consequences to that guy. What if, like a worst case senario, such posting and when he sees it on the net makes him angry and he'd look for a revenge to someone else out there? Then rather put if officially to TV networks since this shouldn't be overlooked. Its a bad experience, but its better to inform people who might solve this problem, so he (or his buddies) won't do it again.

Still not sure whats better, or such laws and police like in US or such like here, where there is really low level of respect to the police, since they're in many cases useless, but thats another story.

Jason Boggs

04-03-2007, 05:23 AM

David Drummond

04-03-2007, 09:18 AM

I think I was still in Briscoe county but I'm not absolutely sure.

I think it was. I think where he finally stopped and was blowing the siren at everyone that passed by was on the county line. I am 90% sure it was the same guy I saw at Silverton. He was driving up and down the road blowing the siren and then went and stopped in the middle of the road on the edge of Silverton as that tornado passed just to the northwest.

Given the size of the county, I am going to guess he probably lives in Silverton, since that town and Quitaque are the only real towns in that county, and both very small.

Only thing I can figure out was this guy was already scared out of his wits thinking his little town was about to be blown away and the 100+ chaser vehicles that just blew through there just added to his anxiety. He might have even been the Sheriff himself. I doubt they have many LEOs in that county considering the population.

Undoubtedly he was just presented with two situations which in all likelyhood he had not prepared himself to handle and overreacted.

Robert Dewey

04-03-2007, 09:24 AM

Everyone makes mistakes and stupid decisions, even law enforcement. I can imagine his level of stress and could easily see others reacting the same way when they have the responsibility of everyone's safety on their shoulders. Even so, people need to be called out on their mistakes so that they can correct them in the future.

I agree with the majority here that you should do something about the situation. I'm not sure exactly what your options would be, but at least show the video to your station and let them know that you feel you were the target of a "mistake".

Brandon Sullivan

04-03-2007, 09:25 AM

Last Year on March 12th or April 21st... I cant remember when.. We had a real nice storm pop up to the west of us.. A friend of mine was on that storm, he saw the wall cloud, and eventually the tornado.. He called NWS and they put out a warning right away... Now the funny thing is, the sheriff was sitting on the complete opposite side of the storm (downdraft) and said on the HAM Repeater " Im over by him and I doont see anything " then he proceded to get on his poloce radio and say " you dont need to sound the sirens, this guy is seeing things... Needless to say, his apology was well expected later that day when the damage was done...

WOW!! I couldnt believe it..

David Wagener

04-03-2007, 04:43 PM

We encountered the sheriff on Hwy 70 about a half mile, give or take, before it the 256 intersection. This guy was a piece of work. My chase partner was driving for the first time this go around (only his second year out) and was a little stunned by this guy. He came up behind us when I was filming the Silverton tornado along side hwy 70 and told us we had to go. That's fine...trees were getting in the way. Found a better hill and setup there. After it was obvious it was going to stay west of the 256/70 intersection we start backed. He was pulled off on the side and attempted to stop one group of chasers in a car (about 3 or 4 guys) and they went past. We come up to him and he is out of his truck walking into the road in front of us scream "what the hell do you think you are doing, get the hell out of here..."

I was just like...is this for real. Then he started demanding our storm chaser licenses...I just looked at my partner and looked back at him and was like "umm, I've been doing this for 11 years, since when did those exist?" He started to get flustered as I wouldn't break and finally cracked "well I'm not going to be responsible for you if you get hit"...my response "did I ask you to be?"

My only regret is turning the camera off and setting it down next to me, lord knows he would have tried something and I wasn't going to lose the video. :) He finally wandered off, we watched the thing spin down and headed back to Norman.

What a great first drive by the new guy on this chase. My only regrets is that I wasn't able to stream live back to the station in OKC (no cell service)...otherwise they would have gotten a kick out of it there.

Mike Hollingshead

04-03-2007, 06:58 PM

Not that this is all that relevant, but I was just thinking of recording the situation and what I'd do. I remembered how you can set most Sony's(and others I'm sure) so that the red record light does not come on. I have yet to set my latest Sony so it works that way, and now want to, lol...just incase some jackass stops me and can see the camera.

Earl Faubion

04-03-2007, 07:54 PM

My Sony doesn't have an option to turn the red light off but I've found that a tiny bit of electrical tape conceals it nicely.

joel ewing

04-03-2007, 09:01 PM

You know, this dialog has gotten me to think that it might be a darn good idea to start an entirely new thread asking veteran chasers where they have encountered speed traps and/or overly-aggressive law enforcement agents throughout the "alley".
My chase partner/cousin Doren Berge and I could weigh in. Personally, I would LOVE to have a list of potential "hot spots". Joel Ewing

Wesley Luginbyhl

04-03-2007, 09:01 PM

That Sheriff that was driving out there was causing bigger problems than any the chasers were. He was all over the place. Everytime i looked up that truck was speeding off in one direction or another. That really sucks he just decided to pick you out of everyone. It also kinda makes me laugh though. You get pulled over for doing nothing, but about 4 years ago when I was still in high school, i accidently cut 2 sheriff vehicles off while speeding following a storm out of my home town. I saw 2 white cars coming up in the left lane behind me (there a 2 lanes in both directions here), but the people in front of me were going pretty slow so i shoot over in front of the 2 white cars and went around. After i pass the slower cars, I get over still going about 80 to see 2 sheriffs pass me going 85+. At this point i realized they were more concerned about the storm in front of us, so i just kept pace (at a distance of course). You just have to be careful in the panhandle. Some of the cops out there (sheriff and troopers) are really nice, but then you have the "others". You should definitely report that guy, it doesnt matter how long it has been. You dont call anyones employer and make false claims. Thats just wrong.

Bob Schafer

04-03-2007, 10:39 PM

It seems to me that before posting any vids on YouTube, or going to the media, that the best thing to do would be to contact the applicable sheriff's department and then wait (for a short time) for some reply. I would inform them that I expect nothing less than a public apology right here on this forum, or else the crap hits the fan.

This guy is a loaded gun (no pun intended), and he needs to either see the light or find different employment.

But, I say give the department a chance to act in a favorable manner before you go nuclear.

Melissa Moon

04-04-2007, 06:12 AM

Joey Ketcham

04-04-2007, 06:38 AM

Tarmo Tanilsoo

04-04-2007, 06:47 AM

I don't agree with that. What the deputy did was wrong and he used his powers to harass people that weren't doing anything wrong. Jason may not encounter him ever again, but other people will - and it's hard telling how many people will be harassed by this guy and to what extent.

The deputy has no right to be working in law enforcement and has no right to harass people like he did.

I don't agree as well. It was wrong, it was abuse of power, and as I said before: If he did it once, he will do it again so... jketcham, I totally agree with you

Jay McCoy

04-04-2007, 07:36 AM

Wow...sounds like this guy was a piece of work. Personally, though, if it was me I would just let the whole thing go. I don't agree with what he did (though I think he was probably just freaked out about the storm which resulted in him overreacting), but now that it is said and done, what good is it to make a stink about someone/something who you probably will not have to encounter again anytime soon (unless there happens to be a storm there again)?

The problem is Jason will encounter this guy again for sure. That county is in our viewing area and since Jason chases for a local tv station he will be in this area again many times. Alot of storms blow up in that area. I have chased there many times myself. For Jason and I that is a backyard chase. If this was some place in Kansas or Oklahoma we may not chase in again for years then I would drop it but we dont have that luxury.

I do think he was shaken up by the storm and by the pure number of chasers but he is suppose to be a professional trained to handle streeful situations. Problem is I dont think he knew what to do abou the storm. he was worried about chasers?? I can promise we all know alot more about what was going on than he did. He was a bigger danger to himself and to us than the storm was. This is a very isolated road and normally you may only pass a couple cars every 20 miles if that. If he would have left us alone there would have been no issues. We are used to dealing with chaser convergences. he obviously isnt.

Melissa Moon

04-04-2007, 10:03 AM

The problem is Jason will encounter this guy again for sure. That county is in our viewing area and since Jason chases for a local tv station he will be in this area again many times. Alot of storms blow up in that area. I have chased there many times myself. For Jason and I that is a backyard chase. If this was some place in Kansas or Oklahoma we may not chase in again for years then I would drop it but we dont have that luxury.

I do think he was shaken up by the storm and by the pure number of chasers but he is suppose to be a professional trained to handle streeful situations. Problem is I dont think he knew what to do abou the storm. he was worried about chasers?? I can promise we all know alot more about what was going on than he did. He was a bigger danger to himself and to us than the storm was. This is a very isolated road and normally you may only pass a couple cars every 20 miles if that. If he would have left us alone there would have been no issues. We are used to dealing with chaser convergences. he obviously isnt.

Well, since it is likely that you guys will encounter him again (it being your home base and everything and Jason being with the media), I guess I could see maybe letting his colleagues know about his behavior (though if it were me I would still probably just let it go). But putting it on YouTube like some have suggested for thewhole world to see? If it was me, I wouldn't go that far. It might make the news station that Jason works for look like they handled the situation spitefully or something. I dunno...that's just what I think :-)

Brian Stertz

04-04-2007, 10:04 AM

His name was not Barney Fife was it??...did he tug on his gun belt and draw his pop gun on you?? What a freakin bozo. Lots of these bad attitude power-tripping idiots out there. Just avoid being their potential targets...and keeping a very low profile sure helps this. Storm chasers are certainly very easily profiled, especially seeing some of the crazy rigs out there, and the need for speed at times during the heat of the battle.

Tim Vasquez

04-04-2007, 10:30 AM

I think this demonstrates how smart it is to think ahead and use our gear to protect ourselves. For ANY traffic stop, just turn on the camera, set it aside, and let it pick up the ambient audio. If there's shenanigans, videotape the car (and its markings) as it drives off. At the very least this might get the county to drop any charges against you if you've been cited and treated very poorly. And as others said, it's doing our part to help keep law enforcement honest.

And yeah, cover up that stupid tally light with electrical tape -- it serves no useful purpose but to put people on their guard.

I'll put out a call for this on our front page.

Tim

Chris Vagasky

04-04-2007, 01:11 PM

I remember seeing that sheriff in the same area. I pulled over to the side of the road when I saw him speeding up behind me in the left lane, to avoid any issues.

Jason Boggs

04-04-2007, 03:51 PM

Gene Moore

04-04-2007, 04:07 PM

I was right in the middle of this mess and managed to sneek away when he was screaming at three girls (from OU I think). Of course they drove away from him while he was yelling, which made matters worse.

My take on this will probably make some of you unhappy, but what I saw was very different than what I've been reading. Who among you bothered to record the chasers hanging out the window video taping while going 85 MPH down the highway? How many bothered to tape the chasers all the way out the window on the roofhttp://www.stormtrack.org/forum/images/icons/icon13.giftaping while passing other vehicles? Not to mention parking on the highway, blocking traffic, using laptops while driving and running outrageously blinding lightbars down the road. You say the law enforcement was out of control, I agree but so were many chasers. It was nothing short of lunatic fringe north of Silverton.

Anytime an emergency vehicle comes up on you the rule is pull over because they have the right of way. It does not matter if they are pulling you over or not, that light and siren gives them that right. Law enforcement does not like crowds or what they call mobs. There were just too many chasers breaking too many laws and they came unglued and in response acted irresponsibally themselves. The same thing happened in SW Kansas and eastern Colorado years ago. At one time in the 80's Colorado law enforecment was blocking chasers from the storms. It's ok to protect yourself by taping the incident, but we were a part of a larger group that was mostly out of control.

What can we do in these situations? One thing is to not drive to the anticipated "storm of the day" where everyone else will be. Kansas was not crowded and the torndoes were bigger, consider other options. Believe me I know shi##y deals while chasing, I was screamed at on May 3rd 1999 while taping two tornados, a giant stovepipe and a wedge. I was off the road completely in a field but told to cease immediately and leave the scene, or be arrested. I was also told to drive away from the storm. There was no damage where I was, but that didn't matter.

I personally may take some sort of action against the blindinghttp://www.stormtrack.org/forum/images/icons/icon13.gif lightbars. There were times I could not see on the way to McLean. We should not be doing that to each other.

Gene Moore

fplowman

04-04-2007, 04:11 PM

i guess all i can say is "Seig Heil"

David Wagener

04-04-2007, 05:00 PM

Gene, I'll agree with you that the activity out there may have gotten out of control on both sides. Since I first started chasing down here in 97, I've had seen things that have annoyed and angered me...but also give me reasons why I always choose to avoid the crowd as much as possible. Its not that I don't like any of you all...I just prefer avoiding as much of the chaos as possible. Which is why you'll always see me move past convergence or wait for the masses to pass. When I'm ready to go some where or feel like I need to, I don't want to have to wait for a million people to move as well.

That being said...yes, the sheriff was completely off base, but I could see why he went nuts. Should have asked for his name and badge number, but didn't feel like pushing any buttons to really set him off. As for the activities of the chasers. We have to keep in mind, this is really the first major day of the new year. We have a whole new group of people at OU, TTU, etc...and the kids are going to be immature until they get settled in. The hanging out of windows is just stupid, but eventually they'll stop...about the time they get dinged by a nice golfball flying out of a storm. :) As far as the lightbars and full wx station on vehicles...to each their own. If it helps you, more power to you. Light bars really need to be restricted to *local* Skywarn, NWS, and emergency management. They can help raise awareness when you are driving slow, on the side of the road, or its blinding rain...but how many use it for that versus an ego trip?

The key to it all...respect the local law enforcement, don't be stupid and immature, and we should continue to get out of this hobby alive without too many problems.

Dan Robinson

04-04-2007, 05:12 PM

I posted this on WX-CHASE, as it seems a resurgence of the lightbar topic is upon us. I debated about starting another thread, but for now will post in this one.

I feel that some sort of warning light is a good piece of standby equipment for a chase vehicle, and can be of good use for public safety in rare situations. They should be used with extreme judiciousness and only when absolutely neccessary. I have strobes installed on my vehicle, and own a small lightbar that is usually not installed. I've had this equipment since 2003 and have used it maybe once or twice per season while chasing, usually for no more than a minute at a time. Examples include blocking traffic from a flooded roadway at night, alerting traffic of icy bridges, warning traffic of debris or trees across a road, or alerting traffic behind me that I am about to turn onto a pull-off on a narrow road. I have used my lights many times in the presence of city and state police at icy road accident and flooding scenes, and none have raised any issue with me about it. In several cases, I've been *thanked* by law inforcement for doing the above actions until they were able to arrive. But, most of these scenarios are unique and rarely involve tornado chasing.

Reading the laws across the country, it is easy to see that in most states, it's not the lights that are illegal but how they are used. With a few exceptions (California and Illinois are two of them), amber lights are allowed to be used to supplement a car's four-way hazard lights. They don't give any right-of-way, authority or permission to speed or park illegally, just like four-way hazards do not.

The problem I see that is the main 'beef' with everyone, and the source that triggers these discussions, is with running the lights during one's entire 'intercept mode', which I think is a phenomenon mostly derived from movies like 'Twister'. It's like once you're in 'intercept mode', you kick up the action/drama and get excited, turn on the lights and close in on the tornado. Although the intentions here are understandable and harmless, the implications are not. In most states, doing this is illegal - and is, as others have mentioned, a hazard and annoyance to other chasers.

Cameron Redwine

04-04-2007, 05:37 PM

I'm not even sure how to go about reproting this guy. I didn't get his name and I don't know where he lives. I'm actually not even quite sure what county I was in when he stopped me. I think I was in Briscoe, but again, I'm not sure. I thought I was the only one this guy targeted, but from the posts on this thread it really looks like this guy was out to get someone. I agree with Tim that turning the video camera on will help with proving what was said. In my case it didn't help. When he stopped me I had my vid camera rolling. When he came up to my car he said "Get out of that truck!" and he made me go stand next to his vehicle. I guess I will have to get me a little cassette recorder to stick in my pocket when I go out from now on...especially when I'm in that knuckle heads territory.

I worked in police communications for a few years, so let me offer a couple of suggestions. This guy sounds like a whack job, so he may not have followed department protocol for a traffic stop. At any rate, I know that there was some mention of road intersections and various stretches of road; use that information to determine which county you were in. Contact the Sheriff’s Office for that county, and tell them that you would like to speak with a supervisor regarding an incident with an deputy that occurred on that date around that time, in that location. There should be no problem using the CAD system to determine which unit went out on a traffic stop in that area, even if there were multiple units, which I doubt there were. Even if he didn’t go out on a traffic stop, it was probably the beat cop for that area.

If you are serious about reporting this guy, try to get approximate times, locations, and accounts of what happened from as many of the affected people as possible; provide contact information. It should be quite easy to figure out who the cop was. Also, if you’re lucky and the sergeant or captain is willing, there may have been a dash cam in the cruiser which ought to back up your account of what occurred.

There’s my $.02, so good luck.

Wesley Luginbyhl

04-04-2007, 05:43 PM

As for the people hanging out of the car, I actually took a picture of that because that was the icing on the cake to a crazy day (that and I couldnt get a clear picture of the tornado at that moment anyways). That was one of the last things i thought I would ever see chasing, so i had to take a picture of it. Earlier that day, I got hit by 2 golfball size stones just standing out side my car, both of which were nice little stingers. Getting hit by one driving down the highway could be near deadly. I dont think your car needs a lightning rod sticking out of it either.

David Wolfson

04-04-2007, 05:56 PM

A "kibbitz", since I wasn't there, but.... I don't think I read that anyone was ticketed or even that much inconvenienced -- just harassed. That means the deputy kind-of knew he was steaming and didn't want to document it. Given that, a number of letters from different people addressed to the Sheriff only describing the disturbing incident that occured with respect to an unknown deputy should do the trick. As a County bureaucrat, I have high confidence the Sheriff can be counted on to inquire and re-establish County policy with respect to both the offender and all the other deputies in the department. That course of action should result in little or no exposure to retribution against specific individuals and have the desired positive effect IMHO.

David Drummond

04-04-2007, 05:57 PM

Jason isn't the only one likely to encounter him again, that county is also in my stations viewing area as well. I will be through there countless times during the coming years.

Since Dan CCd his post over here from WXCHASE, I am going to do the same with mine.

***************************************

It was suggested to me by a TX DPS Trooper that I activate my lights any
time I am in the vicinity of a tornadic storm. He said it would help raise
awareness about the storm to other drivers because he sees them drive into
bad stuff (like big hail, blinding rain, etc) all the time. He also thought
it might raise awareness for people living in the area to see a storm chase
vehicle with the lights on, when they might otherwise not have been paying
much attention to the weather. I've actually been stopped near a house with
lights activated and had someone come out and ask what is going on with the
weather, and had no idea that the storm nearly over them had the very
likelyhood of producing a tornado, so I believe this to some degree.

I have asked a good number of LEOs in the last few years what they thought
about storm chase vehicles with AMBER lights on them. To date, I have only
received positive comments from them regarding that. This was across TX, OK,
KS and (gasp!) NE. In general feeling was that they thought it was a good
safety thing for storm chasers to have.

No doubt not every LEO feels that way, just not every chaser likes them. But
it's good enough for me. I'll probably keep asking LEOs whe the opportunity
comes up. But their opinion on the lights weighs in FAR GREATER with me than
any other chasers opinions on them, so I will continue to use them when I
feel they are warranted until some LEO comes up and tells me to turn them
off, which of course I will comply. I've had lights on my chase vehicles
for well over a decade now and NOT ONE SINGLE TIME have I have had even a
close call with someone nearly hitting me, which is my primary purpose for
having them. The secondary purpose, to warn other motorists of something
dangerous in the roadway as come in handy many times as well.

I find them functional and an added tool that keeps me safe, and alerts
others. That's good enough for me. I have to base my actions on my own
experiences, knowledge and judgements. Other's mileage may vary.
Personally, I have far too many other things to worry about when I am
chasing to worry about what other chasers are doing, but that's just me.

Tim Vasquez

04-04-2007, 06:25 PM

Gene Moore makes a very compelling point... in fact I found myself having to adjust the front page article a bit as I wasn't aware of the extent of the chaser misbehavior that was taking place. This is a messy issue indeed.

I remember a couple of years ago we were hashing out the idea of making a "hall of shame" for chasers who are embarassments and poor ambassadors. I don't think it's a good idea. But I feel it would be very useful for us to collect and share information (pictures, license plates, makes/models) to identify the people who are doing this. It would also give some idea of how many of them are "local yahoos" and how many others are regular chasers. Some friendly peer pressure and a "we know who you are" approach would work far better than simple ridicule. It's not hard for me to sit here and picture the National Sheriffs Association requesting Kay Bailey Hutchison add a line item in some bigger public safety bill to regulate chasing, and I don't think we want that day upon us.

Tim

Jay McCoy

04-04-2007, 06:33 PM

I agree with Gene that the scene out there was pretty hectic and a number of chasers were acting wrecklessly. If The deputy had just been worried about safety and the chasers action I can see where he would be yelling and pulling people over etc..

BUT...

Where I think this went way way beyond a safety or legal issue with reguards to chasers on the road was when after the event he called Jason's tv station and talked to his boss and told them Jason had run him off the road into a ditch. That was a bold faced lie meant to get Jason in trouble and possibly fired. that is not only illegal but extremely unprofessional and way beyond anything moral. This is the point I am having major issues with. Luckily Jason has the video to back him up about that.

He had every right to stop people acting wrecklessly and hanging out windows but he can not be allowed to just make up stories as he goes along. What if he arrested one of us and made up the story we ran him off the road?? We could be facing attempted capital murder or assault on a peace officer charges. If he calls an employer and makes up stories who says he wont do it in a report or in court?? He is out of control and is dishonest. Not much worse than a dishonest cop.

I can say right now without any doubts Jason wasnt one of those. He is a cautious and safe chaser. I have watched him come along from a noobie to an experienced and well knowledged chasers the past 8-10 years and know he wouldnt be doing anything like that. I used to work at the station he chases for. I used to run the chase team there and my dad was chief met there for 30 yrs.

David Drummond

04-04-2007, 06:44 PM

I'm with Jay on that. I don't believe for a moment that Jason did what that guy said he did.

Actually, considering the sheer number of chasers that were there, and amber lights aside, other than what the Sheriff's truck was doing I only saw 3 other incidents.

After being tailgated a good five miles, and by tailgated I mean another vehicle could not have fit between us, when I was doing a little over 70 and then finally passed like I was sitting still was a bit much. Black truck with OK plates and media markings on the side.

The other thing was a VERY WELL KNOWN tour operator that parked their van SQUARELY in the driving lane. And was out with the driver door open. I know exactly who it was but I am not naming names because this person is very well liked and respected and I would get chastised beyond belief for pointing the behavior out because of that. Myself and some other chasers had to wait until the oncoming traffic passed so we could go into the other lane to go around them.

The other thing which for the most part was only a mild annoyance, but caused me to have to slam on brakes a few times was the number of people that were pulling off the road and didn't bother to signal what they were doing before slowing abruptly. I almost took out a white car and a red car that did that.

Shane Adams

04-04-2007, 06:50 PM

I hope that never happens to me. I have a real problem with authority figures abusing power...a serious problem. Fortunately, I've never been in a situation like Jason's. Arrest or not, I'd take that tape to every station in the viewing area....cause not doing so only makes the a#$hole feel like he's getting away with it...and that feeling will keep him repeating the pattern time and again.

I'd use that tape and nail his arse to the wall.

The only thing I can think of that I would do is to let the guy know as the situation escalates that you've broken no laws, he's being taped, and you're not going to sit there and be harrassed. Then it's his move.

Dan Robinson

04-04-2007, 06:52 PM

Maybe this is drifting away from the original thread topic, but that shot Wesley posted of the guy hanging out of a moving car window, clutching the roof with one arm and a video camera with another is beyond comprehension! Holy cow. It's hard to believe that that kind of extreme stuff is happening! I can understand now what the veterans have been saying all along. I can see that on the front page of a newspaper article someday which will strike another blow to the chaser image in the eyes of the public and the law.

I'm in no way condoning what the aforementioned cop did, but if any cop saw that stunt and made the association in his mind to equate that behavior with all chasers, then we can expect more bad cop encounters in the future.

David Drummond

04-04-2007, 07:09 PM

I am pretty positive they guy hanging off the car happened AFTER Jason's event and other stuff mentioned before it. I know some of what I saw was going on at Silverton.

Gene Moore

04-04-2007, 07:18 PM

The problem I see that is the main 'beef' with everyone, and the source that triggers these discussions, is with running the lights during one's entire 'intercept mode', which I think is a phenomenon mostly derived from movies like 'Twister'. It's like once you're in 'intercept mode', you kick up the action/drama and get excited, turn on the lights and close in on the tornado. Although the intentions here are understandable and harmless, the implications are not. In most states, doing this is illegal - and is, as others have mentioned, a hazard and annoyance to other chasers.

Hi Dan,

This light bar topic should have it's own header, although it was just one more issue that day. I think the Norman crowd is more likely to deck out their vehicles than chasers from other parts of the country. Honestly, I think it's fine if they have full blown weather stataions on the roof. Even the sillyness of painting C H A S E R in 3 foot red-white & blue letters on the side excites some people, I can live with all of it. My problem with the light bars are the new one's that are strobes designed to be seen a mile away. I'm telling you I could not keep my eyes open I was so blinded by some of them and had tears running down my face.

My challenge is this: turn on you light bar and stand 15-20 feet behind your vehicle staring at it (that's what the other driver must to do in stacked traffic). If you eyes tear or you have to turn away in pain they are too damm bright.

Gene Moore

Brian Emfinger

04-04-2007, 07:20 PM

The other thing which for the most part was only a mild annoyance, but caused me to have to slam on brakes a few times was the number of people that were pulling off the road and didn't bother to signal what they were doing before slowing abruptly. I almost took out a white car and a red car that did that.

Pulling off the road is dangerous enough without people flying off the road without blinkers and not slowing down and there wayyyy too much of that going on for sure. It really is lucky no one got into any accidents. But as already mentioned there were a lot of chasers and locals doing a lot of bad things. I will definately have to weigh distance vs isolation more in the future... I think I will be willing to travel a good deal further to avoid what was happening down there...as it really is just a matter of time before something bad happens and I dont want to be anywhere near it when it does!

afischer

04-04-2007, 07:25 PM

After being tailgated a good five miles, and by tailgated I mean another vehicle could not have fit between us, when I was doing a little over 70 and then finally passed like I was sitting still was a bit much. Black truck with OK plates and media markings on the side.

Tailgating is bad enough when it happens in everyday life, but if (easily distracted) stormchasers are doing it... yikes. Sounds like a terrible accident waiting to happen.

If I was in Jason's shoes, I'm not sure what I'd do. As irate as I would be, if I could convince my employer that the deputy was lying I'd probably just let it go at that.

Earl Faubion

04-04-2007, 07:27 PM

Jason, this morning, it took me less than 5 minutes on the Internet to come up with contact information for each of the two counties for where this incident may have taken place. Included were photos of the sheriff although I imagine your encounter was with a deputy. You don’t have to know where he lives, only where he works, and with a vehicle description and the other information you already have it shouldn’t be hard to learn his identity. I am quite sure their logs will indicate who was up there that day. Maybe someone else has already complained in which case your complaint will lend additional weight and vice versa. One thing is for sure, if no one complains, all we have is a lot of talk, end of story.

Gene, thanks for your insight. I wasn’t there but the chaser circus that’s already been hinted at is beginning to shed additional light on the subject. Bad behavior is bad behavior no matter who exhibits it and while I don’t condone what the deputy is accused of, it certainly becomes more understandable when one realizes the stress he may have been under having to deal with a tornado and at the same time being vastly outnumbered by what he may have perceived as bunch of crazies who were acting as though the traffic laws don’t apply to them when there’s a tornado in the vicinity. Anyone who jumps to a conclusion after hearing only one side of a story is guaranteed to be wrong about half the time.

One thing I find bothersome is how after Jason’s initial post the thread began to degrade into a kangaroo court by some in spite of Jason clearly writing, “I did not post this to bash any law enforcement officials at all. PERIOD!” Some seem to have overlooked that part of his message. For those who are okay with the deputy being fired or harshly punished for what he is alleged to have done, are you also okay with a storm chaser losing his/her driver license or freedom to chase for similar behavior?

Like I said, I wasn’t there so I can only go by what others are writing about what happened near Brice. At the time I was closer to Shamrock and witnessed a handful of chasers speeding and committing other traffic violations south of town with no tornado in sight, so it's reasonable to assume behavior in the presence of the tornado was worse. As a active duty police officer on May 3, 1999 I very nearly became a victim of a well known storm chaser’s inattentiveness myself, the keyword being nearly. He missed me and all’s well that ends well so I let it go, we each had other matters more pressing to deal with at the time.

Anyway, all I’m suggesting is we exercise some restraint until the full story is known. Jason is the aggrieved party so it’s up to him to follow through with a complaint if he chooses to do so. If he elects to let it go, then so should we.

Shane Adams

04-04-2007, 08:44 PM

that shot Wesley posted of the guy hanging out of a moving car window, clutching the roof with one arm and a video camera with another is beyond comprehension! Holy cow. It's hard to believe that that kind of extreme stuff is happening!

I've hung out car windows to get the shot before....wasn't a big deal. Then again, losing windows to hail isn't a big deal to me either. I guess it depends on the person.

Jeff Miller

04-04-2007, 08:49 PM

I have to agree, but this once again highlights an ever-recurring - and ever increasing - situation in the chase community.

As has been shown with the exponentially increasing popularity of chasing, the ratio of yahoos to experienced chasers is also exponentially increasing. More and more young people with little or no meteorological knowledge - and plenty of stupidity - are getting out in the field to "go get a tornado" - and what we find are incidents as what are outlined above.

It seems that we are all so gung ho to attack this officer for how he treated Jason - and yes, the way he treated Jason was wrong as Jason himself was NOT part of the "problem" on the field. But as Gene has said, I have to put myself in the position of the officer.

I can imagine the officer looking at so many legal offenses. Reckless driving, speeding, failure to control a vehicle, failure to yield to law enforcement, illegal stop in the middle of a road, and I dont know what in the world you charge the guy hanging out of the car - but Im certain there is something there. So we have one officer, and a huge mob of lawbreakers in the mind of the officer. I think he was attempting to restore order the best way he could but lack of experience and judgement caused him to overreact and do the only thing he could think of - treat everyone like the yahoos - because the majority, *apparently*, WERE yahoos. The officer has no idea who is a veteran, who is not, if "licenses" are needed, what the driver's intentions are - in his mind, "we all are crazy".

The problem is not going to go away. The exponential increase of thrillseeking yahoos will continue. Law enforcement will get more and more aggressive trying to maintain order, and mistakes will be made. Inexperienced chasers will get bolder. The ratio of yahoos to experienced weatherwise chasers will continue to increase. It seems to me more and more like a runaway train.

Every year this subject comes up, and every year the tales get crazier - and the number of chasers continues to increase, the reports get wilder - and the officers get a worse and worse impression of ALL chasers because of the cancerous yahoos that continue to pervade the field. All we can do is our best - and all we can do is go above and beyond respecting the law as that seems to be an ever increasing situation on the plains. Scary, scary stuff.

Damon Poole

04-04-2007, 08:57 PM

Check your tape again, and see if you have this guy on tape, then, see if you can zoom in on his badge and ID him from that. If you have any of the incident on tape, take it to the Sheriff's Office and start with the Chief Deputy and keep going up the chain of command. Someone should listen, and if warranted, take disciplinary action on the deputy.

I'm not even sure how to go about reproting this guy. I didn't get his name and I don't know where he lives. I'm actually not even quite sure what county I was in when he stopped me. I think I was in Briscoe, but again, I'm not sure. I thought I was the only one this guy targeted, but from the posts on this thread it really looks like this guy was out to get someone. I agree with Tim that turning the video camera on will help with proving what was said. In my case it didn't help. When he stopped me I had my vid camera rolling. When he came up to my car he said "Get out of that truck!" and he made me go stand next to his vehicle. I guess I will have to get me a little cassette recorder to stick in my pocket when I go out from now on...especially when I'm in that knuckle heads territory.

David Drummond

04-04-2007, 08:58 PM

I think the thought is a little off track here trying to justify why the officer may have acted the way he did was BECAUSE of the huge chaser convergence and associated behaviors. The fact is, back before Silverton before I ever even saw a big chaser convergence he was acting strangely.

I still think the site of a tornado appearing about to rip his town up frankly scared the living hell out of him, and then as he went on and encountered the circus just overloaded.

While there were certainly some instances of deviant behavior, given the shear number of vehicles I saw, they still seem to be in the very small minority.

Unless I just totally missed something, FOR THE MOST PART, the vast majority of everyone in the convergence was behaving just fine.

Mike Hollingshead

04-04-2007, 09:09 PM

It is scary. I heard there was even a clown there with sparklers...and an elephant. I heard one car about slid off the road from all the dung. I never imagined chasing would come to this.

Dick McGowan

04-04-2007, 09:26 PM

I heard the cop was dressed up like a chicken and was shooting bb's at the chasers who were car surfing. But the cop let them go because they had lightbars and knew it was only March.

Kenny Drake

04-04-2007, 09:51 PM

I think this situation needs to be handled very delicately. As it is, LE/storm chaser relations are quite fragile. Those involved need to get in contact with the LE agency in West Texas whom this officer works for and try to work out some sort of compromise before going public (this is the internet, so it somewhat is public already). I say this because more than likely this officer became agitated after certain events unfolded involving bad driving and other practices which those in the area at the time witnessed other chasers do. This officer took things too far when he called up a chasers boss with false claims. Basically I think the approach that needs to be taken is this: (1) We as storm chasers need to acknowledge that there are a very few (but there are) chasers who act carelessly while chasing. However, most of us follow the law and chase in a very safe manner. (2) The officer who took things too far needs to be punished adequately.
The reason for this compromise approach is that storm chasers, spotters, news media, and law enforcement will generally be the only ones in the area of storms. Whether its justified or not, LE will tend place the blame on the first two because they want to keep things from going public (news media would definitely.) Its better for those chasing storms for whatever reason and LE to have a good relationship. I think the May 28th incident was an officer who was either informed or witnessed some unlawful behavior on part of a few storm chasers, combined with the fact that a storm was about to rip his town apart and freaked out. Whether its fair or not, if LE really dislikes storm chasers they could catch us for the most minor offenses (failing to use turn signal, etc) and punish you with the harshest possible penalty for that offense. I've noticed stormtrack has storm spotters, storm chasers, and some news media. The one thing that lacks is law enforcement. Maybe if we were to communicate with law enforcement more often we could work out these issues. The May 28th incident is proof that there is major miscommunication and misunderstandings in the LE community, and general public as to our (storm chasers and spotters) purpose.

Jeff Miller

04-04-2007, 10:27 PM

It is scary. I heard there was even a clown there with sparklers...and an elephant. I heard one car about slid off the road from all the dung. I never imagined chasing would come to this.

Alright, I believe this was a reply to my "scary" comment. The intent of my post was not to overdramatize the situation. I was simply commenting on what I *perceived* was ths situation - I wasn't there, so I only went on the comments that I was observing. Regardless of what happened on this day, the point was to attempt - and I repeat, to attempt - to try to just put another point of view on this particular "problem".

Perhaps from now on I shall refrain from comment on these situations unless I myself am there to avoid this sort of sarcasm.

Amos Magliocco

04-04-2007, 10:52 PM

I agree with Kenny that some kind of private contact is better than a organized, Stormtrack-based public relations assault on the sheriff's department. It sounds like this guy was out of line, but I saw one or two instances of reckless driving that *might* have either started or escalated the department's response. The worst was a media chaser from Oklahoma City in a black pickup truck, whose driving was more than deserving of an arrest. Again, I don't know if that had anything to do with it.

David's hypothesis makes sense, that this cop was freaked out at the combo of tornadoes and a bazillion chasers.

Either way, I can't see how a public attack on the police in Briscoe County can help. They're not going to fire the deputy because stormchasers on an internet bulletin board don't like him, but if we go to the papers or television, then the next time we're out there, the deputy himself might like us even less than he did on Wednesday.

As a Texas chaser who will chase Briscoe County in the future, I'd hope Jason and other wronged parties can deal with the matter directly.

B Doss

04-04-2007, 10:58 PM

It was nothing short of lunatic fringe north of Silverton.

I could not agree more.:D

Jay McCoy

04-04-2007, 11:33 PM

I think most people are missing the main point here.

We all know it was a zoo along 256 north of Silverton. Chasers were all over the place and some were acting very stupidly. The deputy had every right to try and clamp down on that and even yell at some people. Hell I wanted to yell at a few and it will only get worse as we get into May. If thats where the story ended I would say drop it.

The part that is not ok and is being missed by people is well after the event he called Jason's employer and made up a story about being run off the road into a ditch. He fabricated the whole thing in an attempt to get Jason in trouble or fired. I dont care what state of mind he was in during the tornado near Silverton or whether he was worreid about anybodys safety. He made a consious decision to call a tv station and lie hours later. There isnt anybody here that can honestly defend that in any way. He is a dishonest law enforcement officer and if not called out on this will do it again to somebody else. But next time it may not be an employer but a judge he tells his lies to.

We can make a whole new thread about chaser activities and lack of safety but this has NOTHING to do with what he did after the event.

Amos Magliocco

04-04-2007, 11:41 PM

It's nice to see ST (on the front page) take a stand to encourage chasers to consider how they drive. In the last few years, this forum has become increasingly intolerant of safety discussion or any related topic (lightbars, etc), to the point where I think people avoid it entirely.

This creates the impression that Stormtrack as an entity advocates no particular position on the matter, as if hit counts matter more than the chance of offending chasers who, for whatever reason, entrench themselves against these conversations and always attempt to sabatoge them.

Of all the places chasers should feel comfortable discussing safety, ST should be at the top of list. It's good to see an editorial position that sounds more like what the magazine stood for under David Hoadley and Tim Marshall.

Jason A.C. Brock

04-04-2007, 11:47 PM

Who knows why he pulled you over. I do know one thing tho. They were all over the radio on my scanner telling dispatch about the "media circus". I also heard one officer tell another..."You got a chaser crossing into your county doing 87 towards you." He also noted to let dispatch make a note he pulled over a media chaser from Amarillo and he only stopped them to ask for info on the storm.....If this was you I am guessing he also lied to his dispatch on the reason he pulled you over. :confused:

I think you should jut drop the issue unless it happens again....if you dont drop it.....it may very well happen again....the more we keep trying to promote our freedom as chasers.....the quicker they will take it away from us. I can tell you one thing....the emergency management and local spotters etc. look down on stormchasers...even if we do know more about storms than they do. The feel like their toes are getting stepped on maybe? They think we dont know as much about storms as they do? Who knows....I do know one thing....that area is famous for giving tickets....Memphis and Esteline are the definition of "speed trap".

Danny Neal

04-04-2007, 11:59 PM

Was this guy in uniform and wearing a badge? or at least present you with one? This guy sounds unreal. For all we know it could have been some yahoo with lights in a pickup. I am sure this was not the case. I have never heard of a sheriff or deputy in a dark gray pickup before. This guy was insane.

I agree with Jay and others about the conduct of this "officer." Was he a younger guy or older one? I keep picturing this guy as a volunteer fire fighter or a storm spotter, completely peaved that his normal "territory" was being invaded. I have had a run in with that before. My dad is a fire fighter was spotting in the SW CWA some yahoo came up to us inpersonated a police officer, told us we weren't welcome to spot in this area and we had to leave, my dad asked to see his badge, said he left it in the car, next thing we know he turns his little red light off and speeds away.

Bad chaser conduct should be reprimanded by proper law enforcement officials. A tornado passing dangerously close to a populated area, or a chaser hanging out his window filming it....hmmmmm. While his county is getting ripped apart, lets puff out our chest and try to intimidate people who are doing a better job of warning his county than he is.

Gerard Jebaily

04-04-2007, 11:59 PM

I have some video of something similar from that day that i will soon upload and post a link to ITT. I witnessed a police officer of some sort wearing a black cap yelling at everyone to slow down at T junction. There were ALOT of chasers around and most were driving at safe speeds near that intersection. I saw this cop yell at a car to pull over and the cop opened the door of this guys car (looked to me like an inexperienced chaser with a car full of people) and BIT...HIS...HEAD...OFF:eek: ! There is nothing that this guy could have done to warrant that kind of verbal abuse. Im not sure if we need to submit this kind of stuff to any higher athority or not. But i do wish i had the cops badge number or liscense plate number but i was almost to afraid to record the incident. Video coming soon.

David Drummond

04-05-2007, 12:08 AM

Danny Neal

04-05-2007, 12:22 AM

Wow....as others have said, I would at the very least send the video to the Broscoe or Hall county sheriffs office and ask for a written apology or at least some sort of reaction towards it. Even if he was deputy, if the sheriff does nothing about the conduct on his officer, I can so see the media ads come election time........assuming its the same there that it is in IL where we elect sheriffs.

"Do you want to re-elect sheriff "so and so" when the conduct of his officers are going around harrassing "public servants" in a regional emergency?"

or

"When your town is at risk from severe weather, do you want this guy (show picture/video) chasing away your best hope for up to the second weather reports?"

haha although I wouldn't go this far now. I would certainly be majorly pissed if I got a complete blowoff from the sheriffs office after I sent video evidence of a cop abusing his authority and come election time I would have his head on a platter.

Earl Faubion

04-05-2007, 12:27 AM

Jay, I don't think anyone missed the part about the deputy's call to the station's assignment editor. That conversation, unless it was recorded (and I hope it was) will likely turn into a he-said she-said type of deal. As with everything else we've read so far, it's only one side of the story. Why are some so anxious to condemn before the full story is known?

We've already learned there was more to the overall picture than was mentioned in the beginning, and who is to say there isn't still more that we don't yet know about? Right or wrong, the accused deserves a chance to respond. And unless a complaint is filed, it's not likely we'll ever know. It seems to me we've reached the "put up or shut up" phase.

For all we know this deputy is already on thin ice with his department and his command is waiting for one more complaint to bust him out. Or maybe he really did have a bad day and it was a one time thing. The point is we don't know and until we do, ANY rush to judgment is unwise.

Likewise with the OKC media chaser in the black pickup and the other traffic scofflaws. I hope those who witnessed those events will at least let those people know what they saw and impress on them that kind of behavior will not be tolerated. The tailgating thing especially, I'd be complaining loudly to his employer as I view tailgaters as a direct threat to my life and property. Rude behavior is one thing, dangerous illegal driving is another. I'm especially interested in learning who the media guy is because I might know him. Wouldn't it be a hoot if it turned out that is who the deputy thought he was stopping when he flagged Jason? :confused:

Jay McCoy

04-05-2007, 12:50 AM

We know the full story Earl.. We can forget all about everything that happened on that road. I can see where he went nuts out there with that circus. I actually went east towards Memphis just to get away from it.

But he called and talked to a couple of people at the station. It doesnt matter if its a "he said she said". It is the fact he called the station at all when Jason did nothing to provoke it. That is well over the line period!!!

That is the only thing that really needs to be dealt with. Not him stopping chasers and trying to control mayhem that is a chaser convergence. We have all seen them and cant blame him for freaking out.

As for the media guy.. It wasnt Jason. He drives a bright yellow truck and this guy from OKC drives a well know black one. He blew by me a few times doing well over 80. Also there were like at least 10 media units on this beast. Most with flashing lights and all kinds of decals. Jason has a little magnetic sign on the door and no lights.

I just wish he would have stopped me..I would have been on the radio to his dispatch in seconds asking for a supervisor.

Dan Robinson

04-05-2007, 05:28 AM

In some ways I see this as yet another "us or them" type deal. Eventually, this subject IS going to come up in the media, either via a local paper or TV station. Just like it did in Mulvane. Either we can tell 'our' side of the story first, or they will tell theirs. The Wichita Eagle story in 2004 got on the AP feed and was printed nationwide. Just about every paper in the country printed it. My *grandmother* even read it and told me about the issue, and I had to explain to her I wasn't doing the type of things the article accused us of.

I hate to say it, but whoever is first on the defensive in a story like this is always the loser in the argument. Perception is reality, and people form their perceptions on that first story that breaks. Once that happens, it is hard to get your side in to set things straight. To my knowledge the Wichita Eagle never printed any of the many letters to the editor sent to them after their story went national.

For those that don't remember, the Wichita Eagle article in June 2004 accused all chasers as being crazy 'tornado tourists' that were responsible for any number of grievances, from blocking emergency vehicles from responding to homes hit by the tornado to driving erraticly. In reality, local gawkers and the police's own roadblocks were responsible for most of the traffic problems that day. But that's not the story that was told. There were direct quotes from county officials blaming *chasers* in that very one-sided article, and we chasers as a whole took a major hit in nationwide respectability. When you have to explain yourself to your family, you realize how far-reaching a story like that can be.

Jason Boggs

04-05-2007, 05:58 AM

Sorry I have not responded much. I just got home from working 13 hrs. Anyway, I really didn't see that much bad stuff happening...not to say that it didn't. I never saw chasers hanging out of a window or stopped in the middle of the road. Again, not saying it didn't happen. I do fully admit that I am at fault for not yielding to him. I have learned a lesson from this ordeal. BUT, like Jay stated, he definitely went over the line when he threatened to arrest me and then called the station and lied about me running him off the road into a bar ditch. If I ran him into a bar ditch like he said, why didn't he at least give me a citation after threatening to arrest me? If he would have been halfway cordial and had given me a ticket for not yielding to him, I would have been a little upset at myself at first, but I would have deserved it. But obviously that didn't happen. I can see the others point about the reckless driving and the speeding and traffic violations. I'm sure this guy was a little frustrated. I can't say that I wouldn't be.

I try to be as safe and mature about storm chasing as I can. Like Jay said, I have a lot of experience under my belt and safety is always my #1 goal no matter what. Like Jay stated in his last couple of posts, the killer to this whole incident was when he called the station and WILLINGLY AND KNOWINGLY lied about what happened. If he would have gotten home that night and thought, "man was it crowded out there today. Maybe I overreacted a little because I was so stressed out". That would have been fine. But he chose to pick up the phone and lie. I can't stand liers to begin with, but when lies are mixed with someone with the authority of law enforcement, it can get ugly in a hurry.

You know, this might be another benefit to having a chase partner or two. At least you have witnesses to back you up in case something like this ever happens. I PRAY TO THE DEAR LORD ABOVE THAT THIS NEVER HAPPENS TO ME AGAIN!!!

David Drummond

04-05-2007, 08:51 AM

Some of you who are all calling for contacting this and that higher ups in the county, or about elections etc are not really realizing just how rural this county is. The entire population of the county is 1790 people. There are only 1006 houses in the entire county, most of which are in Silverton and Quitaque. The total crime in that county in 2004 consisted of 8 burglaries, 8 thefts and 5 auto thefts.

This is a VERY rural department, and while I couldn't find data I doubt there are more than 3 or 4 officers on the whole department. You can bet they are all good friends.

Warren Faidley

04-05-2007, 09:44 AM

This is the type of situation where chasers MUST ban together to prevent this from spreading and becoming a regional nightmare. This almost happened many years ago in SW Kansas -- for those who remember. If this guy gets away with this, he will be more empowered next time and someone could get into serious trouble. I would strongly suggest filing a complaint with the local officials, not just posting the video and pissing him off more. Maybe have a meeting with him and his supervisor (like we used to do when I worked for a newspaper) will help. Let him know that we also serve as spotters. I am sure if this guy is doing this to chasers, he's likely taking out his anger in other ways. His family and on other people along the highways. He needs help.

I pulled over next to a sheriff once near Amarillo, who jokingly said, "Do you have any illegal drugs in that chase truck -- then I can confiscate it for my kids." All joking aside, that was a scary thought.

Once near Las Vegas, NV, I was doing a practice chase with my old chase team when I was pulled over by a Highway Patrol Officer who did not like our trucks and the yellow lights on top, although we had permits and were not using them. He obviously had issues beyond this. He pulled me over and wrote me a bogus ticket for speeding. (His radar gun was not the type that could read from behind -- and I was not speeding regardless). I fought the ticket, but the judge (his girlfriend I was later told) tried to charge me with obstruction of justice. (Which cannot be done in court under constitutional law). I then had to hire a big-time Las Vegas attorney, but in the end all charges were dropped when the State and the Highway Patrol Internal Affairs got involved and realized it was all bogus. Apparently, a lot of people in that county were victimized by the same set-up and I think my complaints helped to stop the corruption.

Warren

Mike Hollingshead

04-05-2007, 09:58 AM

Alright, I believe this was a reply to my "scary" comment. The intent of my post was not to overdramatize the situation. I was simply commenting on what I *perceived* was ths situation - I wasn't there, so I only went on the comments that I was observing. Regardless of what happened on this day, the point was to attempt - and I repeat, to attempt - to try to just put another point of view on this particular "problem".

Perhaps from now on I shall refrain from comment on these situations unless I myself am there to avoid this sort of sarcasm.

I wouldn't pay much attention to things I say. This topic makes me relate to those that "love" the tornado stats topics. I was just poking fun at the circus. It's not a laughing matter, I know.

Brian Stertz

04-05-2007, 09:58 AM

True enough David...the good 'ole boy scenario probably runs deep in Briscoe Co. TX. This should be a red alert to chasers moving through or chasing in this county for this spring and likely well beyond. Need to keep that in the back of the mind, especially if this ends up being an active Caprock/Panhandle kind of year.

Tony Phillips

04-05-2007, 10:32 AM

Earl Faubion

04-05-2007, 10:44 AM

Jason (and Jay)... I realize in your minds you have the full story and I don’t doubt what you say happened. I’m looking at this from the perspective of the official who is assigned to work the complaint against the deputy; he can’t take one side’s views and then render an opinion on the matter. He has to have BOTH sides of the story before he can even begin considering whether the deputy violated the law or the agency’s policies. Frankly I’d be surprised if his agency has a policy against calling a motorist’s employer about a traffic incident. That alone is probably no cause for a complaint, it’s what he said that is the contentious issue and unless the deputy admits lying we’ve now got a third party involved, the assignment editor, because only he (or she) is, as I understand it, the only one heard the deputy’s claim of being run into a ditch. Do you see where this is going? In a formal court setting that’s hearsay evidence. The rules for handling complaints are often more relaxed so that may work in your favor, but keep in mind there’s a possibility that for the phone call to be an element of the complaint, the editor may have to give a statement too.

I have considerable experience working with witnesses to both traumatic and non-traumatic events. It’s extremely rare that two people will perceive the same event in the same way. What’s a full story in one’s mind is only one version of the story to the mediator who has the task of sorting through the matter. Physical evidence is powerful and in most cases it will carry much more weight than witness testimony. If you have it, use it. The video may be worth its weight in gold. The deputy or others may have video too.

I hope you understand that I don’t doubt what you say happened. I’m only trying to provide a little insight based on my experience in dealing with similar issues. As an investigator I had to approach each case from an objective point of view and put aside any natural bias I may have had beforehand. Until the full (as in both sides) of the story is in, the LEO in me says I should adopt a wait-and-see attitude before arriving at a conclusion. It’s not an “us vs. them” thing if one is open-minded, what it should be is, “let’s get all the information” before slamming the door shut on further viewpoints.

Jason, it’s your deal to pursue or to drop. No one else can make that decision for you. I know what I’d do if it was me, but it’s not so I am keeping my opinion on that point out of this thread. If you’re interested, PM or email me. One thing I will recommend though is if you’re going to make a complaint, do it as soon as possible without further delay. Unnecessary delays can diminish a complaint’s importance. And don’t post the video for public viewing before this is resolved. The fairer you are in handling this, the more likely you are to reach a favorable resolution. Your demeanor at the scene appears to have been exemplary. Keep it that way.

Moderators, I don’t envy you keeping an eye on this thread. I hope there’s been some consideration given to limiting further discussion of this specific incident, at least until the official side of it has reached a disposition.

David Drummond

04-05-2007, 11:12 AM

i'm a newbie to chaseing, and i'm trying to get my FCC Ham operaters licence as well, and just the other day i talked to the sheriff reguarding ambers and joining the local Skywarn Radar group, and all he said was "you have to have a licence" and wrote down a place that they give this test to qualify a person for this national licence, apparently this is reffered to as a "storm chaisers licence" now i'm not sure if i want to pay the 15 bucks to get my HAM and then go and pay an additional fee (if any because i havnt looked any further into this yet) to get a licence to go chase a storm, if it were me in that situation y'all faced i would have definately given the tape to somebody in the broad stream media and saw to it that something was done before something like this happened to someone else

I'm sorry but that is just simply not true. There is NO such thing as a Storm Chaser License. If someone is charging you $15 for one, your getting scammed.

Your also not PAYING to get your HAM license. There is a minimal fee that helps pay for the paperwork that the Volunteer Examiners have to do. You have to PASS A TEST to get the HAM license.

Ryan McGinnis

04-05-2007, 12:27 PM

I haven't taken the tape for anybody to see. I didn't get arrested, so I think at this point, I will leave it alone. It almost seems like he had it out for me for some reason. Anyway, I hope I never run across that loser again.

I would humbly submit that if it's worth your time to complain about on an international chaser message board, it's worth your while to get in contact with the sheriff or supervisor of the police officer who pulled you over. :) Maybe nothing will come of it, maybe the officer will be talked to, who knows. Maybe the sheriff or supervisor will get back to you and explain what you did wrong so you can avoid it again in the future.

BTW, most police cars these days have in-dash cameras that begin recording when the strobes are activated, so if you call, you might not even need to forward your video.

Andrew Gunneson

04-05-2007, 12:57 PM

Totally off topic, but just wanted to throw in the two cents.

You pay to the take the test to get your amateur radio license. Regardless of paying, you pass or you don't therefore you get your license or you don't. Now, I'm an ARRL accredited Volunteer Examiner and I'm not sure if the $14 fee is an ARRL related fee, or an FCC related fee. I should know, but I don't (I think it's FCC). The Volunteer Examiners have nothing to do with the fee, up to $14. Anything else is to cover out of pocket expenses. Pencils, paper, stereo (for morse code which is no longer in effect), and stuff like that. My group doesn't recover out of pocket expenses so the fee is $14 per attempt to pass the test.

David's wording just is a little confusing, to me. You don't automatically get your license by paying the fee, but you DO in a sense pay for your license.

To throw some on-topic discussion in:
This whole situation is one of those things that linger in the back of my mind as I get ready to head out for my first year of plains chasing later on and makes me almost want to stay home. You can probably count on me being the one watching the storm from 20 miles away just so I can avoid all of these situations. All of my dreams lately have me almost getting killed by tornadoes though. Bad energy much?

David Drummond

04-05-2007, 01:09 PM

David's wording just is a little confusing, to me. You don't automatically get your license by paying the fee, but you DO in a sense pay for your license.

David Drummond wrote:
Your also not PAYING to get your HAM license. There is a minimal fee that helps pay for the paperwork that the Volunteer Examiners have to do. You have to PASS A TEST to get the HAM license.

Not sure exactly what was confusing about that. You can pay the fee all day, but unless you actually pass the test your not getting a license. I guess if you wanted to split hairs the paperwork filing fee could in the most technical sense be considered paying for your license. But it's not something you can just go pay a fee and get like GMRS or something. You have to actually pass a test.

Andrew Gunneson

04-05-2007, 01:11 PM

It's officially clear now. ;)

Morgan Palmer

04-05-2007, 01:13 PM

I should have thrown in my opinions before now, but hadn't had the time to digest all the posts. Aside from my weather duties, I've been reporting news for TV for about 8 years in a market that has lots of small town police and sheriff's departments. I will agree that larger city police and sheriff's depts are usually very good, as is state police/DPS. There are always bad apples, but that's to be expected.

The frequency of abuses of power do seem to be inversely proportional to the size of the department.

Posting video on youtube and talking about it here is of probably no consequence to the deputy and this situation. Whether you should poke the stick in the hornet's nest by escalating this with the supervisor or sheriff? Obviously, do what you feel you must, but I think that unless you were harmed in some way financially or physically, this instance might be best left to a comment on ST about the incident and to be careful in the future. I agree 100% that when you're in their little fiefdom, they are the boss, and no matter how out of line they are, when you're standing before the officer or deputy, any argument about legality of their actions or attitude means you will lose. I think everyone understands that.

As far as the call to the assignments desk, that MUST be followed up with the news director at the station you're chasing for. If this happened to me, I would be required to give all the pertinent information to my ND, and do nothing further. Any disputes arising (on or off the job)are to be handled by a supervisor.

I do not know anything about your shop and your relationship with them (though I surmise it's a long and beneficial relationship for both sides).

For the edification of all that taking matters further yourself, instead of notifying the station and seeking further instructions, could endanger your relationship with that station.

One last thing for everyone: unless you are on the clock/under contract for a particular station and have station-issued identification, never, ever throw out "I'm with the media," or "I'm working for such-and-such station" to law enforcement in an attempt to get out of a situation. Almost all stations have had phone calls from people claiming that employees or others have threatened them by saying "I'm going to put you on TV" or saying "I'm here for XYZ News," when they're just a stringer.

Spouting off about being media when you're not is a sure-fire way to end a relationship with a media outlet. It also significantly increases the chances your situation with the particuliar officer will escalate, especially in a small town. In my experience, the smaller the agency, the less willing they are to work with media. Many (I would say most) tiny agencies (less than 10 officers or so) see media SOLELY as a hindrance to their jobs. There are many pleasant exceptions, of course.

MP

Joey Ketcham

04-05-2007, 01:24 PM

and wrote down a place that they give this test to qualify a person for this national licence,else

Do you have the paper that he wrote this down on? I would like to know the place he gave you that supposedly issues these licenses. Can you post it on here?

Dave Lewison

04-05-2007, 01:27 PM

Joey Ketcham

04-05-2007, 01:32 PM

This brings up a question in my mind....are you allowed to videotape a cop who is giving you a hard time? We're chasers, and have no shortage of camera gear ready to go at a moment's notice. Am I allowed to simply take the camera and point it at him with the red LED record indicator in full view? I'm not sure if this would make him behave more civil knowing that he's on camera, or would make him even madder... But in any case, you'd have the incident on tape.

But again, not sure if recording someone without their permission is grounds for some other kind of legal action.

Well, I wouldn't just take my camera out and point it at him - he wouldn't like that. If you had a camera in your front seat or could access it, just record it - if you don't get video, you at least have the audio.

It's not uncommon for News Photographer for TV stations to do this whenever they have any altercations with police. They'll hit record so that they can get it - at least - on audio.

Joey Ketcham

04-05-2007, 01:35 PM

Another thing I'm wondering is if maybe these law enforcement officers are confusing the Skywarn classes as being some sort of system that you go through to obtain a licenses. Misinformed perhaps?

Whenever SGF does their skywarn class, the spotters attending recieves a Certificate of Completion. Granted, it's not a license but maybe these deputies and other officers are getting the impression that you have to go through these skywarn classes to be a chaser?

I don't know. As I said just a few minutes ago in another post, I would be interested in knowing that place the officer wrote down and gave to Tony that supposedly issues these license.

I hope that if Tony has it, he will post it.

MatthewCarman

04-05-2007, 01:53 PM

Welcome to Texas! Especially in west Texas, nearly every county has some, if not all their vehicles as pickups, many of them brown or gray colors. My county has dark grey pickups exclusively. The pickup that day was WELL marked. In the more rural counties they don't often wear a uniform either. Mostly jeans, shirt and a cowboy hat with a badge on the pocket. Make no mistake though, they are as official as that clean black and white that Texas Trooper with the well pressed uniform is wearing though.

We have in Iowa sometimes police cars that look like normal civilian cars. I even saw a mustang once that ulled a guy over and it was a cop. Cops are trying to be more secretive in thier pressence so people wont know they are they and will more likely try to get away with something they shouldint be doing. A reminder that everyone needs to drive the speed limit and drive safely.

Jason what he did was wrong calling up your work place and telling your boss you drove him into a ditch.

Glenn Dixon

04-05-2007, 01:56 PM

A reminder that everyone needs to drive the speed limit.....
Dude, you're kidding........right? :confused:

Morgan Palmer

04-05-2007, 02:03 PM

It is completely legal to videotape anyone in any public place, and of course this means the side of the road. Would it infuriate the officer if he knew you were videotaping. Probably.

Could any officer legally seize your videotape? Absolutely not.

Could he seize your videotape and stomp it into tiny bits on the roadway next to your vehicle and laugh at you? Of course he can. Again, legally he cannot do it, but you'd probably just be able to get the replacement cost of the videotape as damages, and you might be able to get the guy in trouble if he's with a respectable department. I am not a lawyer, but know what journalists have to deal with.

Word of advice: if you're going to videotape an officer, you might want to pop in a fresh tape, instead of using the tape that just captured the elephant trunk festival. You never know.

afischer

04-05-2007, 02:15 PM

A reminder that everyone needs to drive the speed limit and drive safely.

For the somewhat common situation where storms are moving due northeast at 35+ mph through an area with gridded N-S/W-E roads and lots of small towns? If you want to obey the speed limit, you'll have to cut diagonally through farm fields if you want to stick with the storm for more than 20 minutes. Anyone tried this yet? Somone must have, for as many people as have chased these sorts of set-ups.

Earl Faubion

04-05-2007, 02:29 PM

This brings up a question in my mind....are you allowed to videotape a cop who is giving you a hard time?

As a general rule, yes, but in some states the audo portion may be regulated. Check this link for some general guidelines: http://www.rcfp.org/taping/

Gene Moore

04-05-2007, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by MatthewCarman http://www.stormtrack.org/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.stormtrack.org/forum/showthread.php?p=130103#post130103)
A reminder that everyone needs to drive the speed limit and drive safely.
Dude, you're kidding........right? :confused:
Ummm, don't you think backing off a bit would show some respect when you pass them....and it always helps to get the camera guy that's holding on the anemometer off the roof and back through the window:D

Jezzzz, we ain't asking you to miss the tube or nothin.

Gene Moore

Jay McCoy

04-05-2007, 02:36 PM

Like David said this is a very small department and I dont know if the sheriff would want to punish his deputy if Jason did contact him. But with the knowledge that Jason has Video of the incident (or lack of one) and that it may be posted either on Youtube or maybe the station itself might do a report on it he may have to act. Having you department held up to scrutiny of the voters and other surrounding departments isnt something he would want to endure. If Jason had done what this guy had said then Jason would have been in cuffs or at least cited.

The only way we will know is if Jason sends them a nice little email explaing things and asking for an apology from the deputy not only to himself but to his employer. If they dont then at least Jason tried. Then post that sucker on Youtube and let the public know about this jerk.

LIke I said I hope this boy tries this with me.

I also know that convergences have gotten out of hand. I plan on filming some of this stuff next time. I think Tim V. is right. If we dont watch out for ourselves then law enforement will do it for us. It wqas mostly newer chases doing it also. I didnt see any 40 yr old's hanging out a window..lol

Darin Brunin

04-05-2007, 02:37 PM

For the somewhat common situation where storms are moving due northeast at 35+ mph through an area with gridded N-S/W-E roads and lots of small towns? If you want to obey the speed limit, you'll have to cut diagonally through farm fields if you want to stick with the storm for more than 20 minutes. Anyone tried this yet? Somone must have, for as many people as have chased these sorts of set-ups.

I have many times...I usually try to wait until the corn is atleast chest high though so I can get in front of the tornado and have that whole Twister effect going on when my vehicle is in the suck zone.

God bless you Matthew for warning me about not speeding when chasing. I knew to not to park in the middle of a road, do cartwheels when a wedge is rolling through a trailer park, and piss off cops when chasing but now that I know not to speed when chasing, I feel 100% confident that I am following chaser safety guidelines and will meet your standards of approval when I am out on the road.

Gerard Jebaily

04-05-2007, 02:50 PM

I have the video captured and uploaded. However a few of you said it would be unwise to post the video here in the forums. IMHO I think it would be a good idea to post the video so we all know exactly what kind of situation was going on out there. Im not trying to get anyone in trouble, upset anyone or single anyone out by posting the video. This video is meant to give everyone the best understanding of what really happened out there and then discuss what the next course of action should be. It seems that the majority of you all agree to posting the video so here it is...

One comment id like to make about the video is that i only caught about the last 20 seconds of a 5 minute yelling. The first couple of minutes were alot louder and more severe. And please excuse the Adobe logo, im using the trial version of premiere right now..

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYY3JNR38_4

Morgan Palmer

04-05-2007, 02:54 PM

Yup, verbal abuse of that kind with a subject who is seated in a prone position is way out of line. The officer was clearly not in a position where he was threatened, and therefore should not have been screaming like that. Seems to be no doubt about it. Thanks for the post.

Mike Hollingshead

04-05-2007, 02:56 PM

sdienst

04-05-2007, 03:00 PM

I'm glad you finally got that up Gerard. Finally got some video evidence. He pulled me over about 5 minutes before all of that happened and I got a "what the hell are you doing" speech. I finally just pulled off and kept going east as he stared me down.

Bill Hark

04-05-2007, 03:06 PM

There are two sides to every story, but it sounds like Jason encountered a police officer who was already having a bad day (maybe his girlfriend dumped him) plus the added stress of a tornado and hordes of chasers. It's up to Jason to decide how to follow up this incident though I would also recommend private contact first before posting on YouTube or contacting media. Unfortunately, this won't be the last incident.

I think there are some measures that can be done to help prevent future incidents with law enforcement. Of course, chasers should behave responsibly, drive safely etc. There's plenty written on proper chaser behavior.

Be Proactive:

Even when not "pulled over", most chasers have had contact with law enforcement. Always be friendly, polite and helpful. Take a few minutes to discuss the forecast, point out radar echoes and show equipment. Ask the officer about nearby road conditions or even their favorite restaurant. Maybe the officer has some interesting stories about previous storms. This establishes the chaser as person, not just one more unnamed tourist speeding through the area. You also show that you value the officer’s opinion. I have found local police to be very helpful. The target area may be a hundred miles away but you or another chaser may encounter the officer or one of his coworkers at a later date.

While Chasing:

In addition to the usual behavior recommendations, be careful when passing law enforcement. If possible, briefly stop to ask if it is all right to pass. You may just have to say that you are aware of the tornado, will drive safely and will report any injuries or damage. If there are four lanes, move over to the center lane when passing a parked emergency vehicle. Many states have laws prohibiting passing a parked emergency vehicle on the adjacent lane.

If pulled over:

I’ve been pulled over multiple times for speeding (not while chasing) and have found that the best policy is politeness. Never argue with the officer. Find out the alleged violation. Be apologetic if you think you are guilty. Observe the situation, name and badge number of the officer or his/her license plate number and make some quick notes when the incident is over. I think running a video or audio tape is very useful. Just don’t tell the officer you are doing it or threaten, “I got you on tape.” The best intelligence is when the other side doesn’t know you have it. Of course, you can always tape over the encounter if it is not favorable.

After an incident:

If an altercation or harassment occurs, first contact the officer’s department and do it as a concerned citizen rather than threatening publicity or lawsuits. I think many incidents can be resolved with a nice discussion, listening to their concerns and appropriate apologies. If not, then bring out the “big guns” with video evidence, going to the media etc.

Bill Hark

Below is a still from the famous encounter with security near a nuclear facility outside of Amarillo. I accidentally left the camera on.

http://www.harkphoto.com/052003detgroup.jpg

Tony Cook

04-05-2007, 03:07 PM

Looks like half the problem is when everyone feels the need to park with everyone else in one concentrated location...along a highway instead of off it on something else. I'd venture a guess there was a lot of following going on this day.

This was also at the intersection of Highways 256 & 70. I was stopped trying to make a decision as to whether to go north or east. Of course, I eventually made the wrong decision and went north, but I think the fact that this was a junction was at least somewhat to blame for the convergence.

I did witness the last few seconds of the sheriff outburst also, though I was further back, and not filming it. Crazy.

TonyC

Brian Stertz

04-05-2007, 03:17 PM

Of all the "encounters" with the LAW I have had while chasing, I have had no problems with State Highway Troopers (KS Troopers are a bit edgy from time to time). But I have run into a few problematic "high and mighty" local & county Fife's. I have even chased with a few troopers as an escort (once in Arkansas on a nighttime tornado and once in the SE Texas Panhandle on a mega mothership near Memphis). They said to follow them and that I did. They pulled over and I pulled over and we watched it. They appreciated the information as to what I was seeing and they kept in close contact with the dispatcher who was relaying the reports to the NWS. The chaser/trooper relationship works 98% of the time...it's just that darn 2% that is bad and memorable (and hopefully forgettable) :rolleyes:

Dan Robinson

04-05-2007, 03:38 PM

I don't think the presence of a lot of people and cars justifies these actions. Chaser convergences are not the only places where there are many cars and people around. Do cops go crazy after an NFL game or rock concert, pulling random people over and screaming at them?

The one thing I see that officers and chasers both need to remember that lots of storm chasers=lots of video cameras. If you do something stupid or out of line, someone's going to get it on tape. Maybe that alone would be enough to cause people to think twice.

I will say this, if that ever happens to me, there will be multiple cameras rolling in the car and I will not hesitate to feed the video to every television network, viral video site, and news magazine show producer I can after the chase is over.

Wow, lightbars and now speeding. This is becoming an all-star chase issues thread.

jason kissam

04-05-2007, 03:56 PM

i agree with the post, you need to stand up and make the choice to make a complaint.

now on the side of being positive, i was on a storm about 2 yrs ago in el paso county colorado, an unmarked deputy pulled in behind me and lit me up. then he noticed that i was in my vehicle marked with my FD plates and lightbar. well he said to be safe and i asked for a business card and gave him pictures.

seems like the barney fife syndrome strikes when there are multiple factors of excitement involved.

respect the laws and obey the traffic laws then we all will be ok

Mickey Ptak

04-05-2007, 04:04 PM

Looks like half the problem is when everyone feels the need to park with everyone else in one concentrated location...along a highway instead of off it on something else. I'd venture a guess there was a lot of following going on this day.

Yes for the most part you are right, but it was very hard to find a good high visual spot in that geographical location. i.e. If there was a hill, there were trees in the way. If you could climb a tree, there would be a hill in the way. Finding a good spot to set up camera was quite difficult at times. Where there was clear viewing there were 10+ chasers.

Mick

Dan Robinson

04-05-2007, 04:14 PM

Jason's right. There are far more pro-chaser LE officers than anti-chaser officers. I have many stories of friendly encounters with police while on a storm. One small town cop in Oklahoma told me that city hall was open for us and any chasers who needed internet data or a place to stop for lunch.

Gerard Jebaily

04-05-2007, 04:22 PM

There is one question i was wanting to ask everyone. If a new thread is needed for this let me know. My question is.. If a police vehicle is in front of you, following a storm, and decides he is close enough, or slows down, but you think you could get closer safely, is it ok to pass him? I guess this could depend on if it is a 2 lane or 4 lane road. Ive heard of people passing police cars on 2 lane, and 4 lane roads to follow a storm but i wasnt sure if this is considered legal or acceptable. I have witnessed numerous times police cars blocking roadways preventing anyone from driving by. The ever popular rolling road block is one of them. However if there is one police unit blocking the right lane, can i pass him in the left lane? Or if he is going very slow in my lane of a 2 lane highway, can i pass him on the oncoming traffic lane given that it is not a solid centerline?

Mickey Ptak

04-05-2007, 04:30 PM

There is one question i was wanting to ask everyone. If a new thread is needed for this let me know. My question is.. If a police vehicle is in front of you, following a storm, and decides he is close enough, or slows down, but you think you could get closer safely, is it ok to pass him?

Chad and I did. The officer was going 50 in a 65 so we passed is ars. Nothing illegal about passing a cop if you are not crossing a solid line or going over the speed limit. Matter of fact from the sounds of it, it could have been the same officer everyone is talking about, sounds like the truck at least. Heck for all I know, if it was him, we could have been the first to piss him off thus setting the stage for the rest of you guys for all his BS. This officer didn’t even bother us though.

Mick

MatthewCarman

04-05-2007, 05:21 PM

If I am correct the speed limit on the interstates is usually 70-75 MPH and the speed limit on highways around here is around 70 MPH. Do you realy have to go any faster to chase a storm? If a storm is moving 40-50 MPH or even 60 MPH I would think you could still stay ahead of it but I have yet to chase one so mabey I am wrong. I understand you have things like traffic etc to slow you down. I did not mean to ruffle some feathers with that comment but I am just thinking about the safety of everyone on the raod instead of myself. I apologize if that offends anyone that is not my intention and I am not accusing anyone here.

Just how big do chaser covergances get? I am wondering if anyone has seen over a 100 chasers/people on a tornado? I would assume it will only get worse as more and more people are interestd in chasing every year. I assume OK and KS has the biggest storm chasing crowds?
Have a nice day.

matt patterson

04-05-2007, 05:29 PM

The biggest ones you will probably ever see will be in central OK or SC KS on a saturday in mid to late may when school is not is session and people dont have to work... you might see close to 100 then.... but in response to your Q, i have never seen 100..

Bob Schafer

04-05-2007, 05:33 PM

Nothing illegal about passing a cop if you are not crossing a solid line or going over the speed limit.

Somebody correct me if this is wrong, but, some years ago, some reputable source told me that it is legal to speed while making a pass. This would make perfect sense. You don't want to be loitering in the lane of oncoming traffic. Make the pass aggressively and get back over. Laws vary by state, too, of course.

Also, I am sure it is illegal to pass a LE vehicle on a two lane if the red-blues are flashing, but not otherwise.

I'll also throw in that I have had many, many pleasant, sociable encounters with LEO who stopped to see if I was okay, then struck up "chasing" conversations with me. One guy in NE who had stopped me for 40/35 stuck out his hand to shake mine when I explained my reason for being 800 miles from home was that I was chasing, LOL. As if I was some sort of dignitary. Let me off with a warning on the 40/35.

Morgan Palmer

04-05-2007, 05:48 PM

It's been many years since driver's ed, but I remember being told that you can only pass so long as you do not exceed the speed limit by doing so. Perhaps someone in LE can advise.

add: this is Texas

Morgan Palmer

04-05-2007, 05:52 PM

Something else that just popped in my mind. On occasion, I have stopped (not in critical rush to a destination mode) and said hello to a local law enforcement officer pulled over.

Just thinking, perhaps it might not be a bad idea, esp. in these small jurisdictions, that when you're not rushing to get to a storm, pull alongside the stopped officer (so long as there's no traffic) and say hello. Tell him/her that you're doing some responsible storm photography and finish up the short conversation by telling them thanks for being out here, and to be safe.

A little honey can't hurt. Who knows, they might tell colleagues they met a nice storm chaser who thought enough to stop and say hi. A thought.

Joey Ketcham

04-05-2007, 06:04 PM

Something else that just popped in my mind. On occasion, I have stopped (not in critical rush to a destination mode) and said hello to a local law enforcement officer pulled over.

A side note to that, be careful at how you approach them - mainly when they're parked and in their vehicle. Some officers become uneasy when they look up and see someone apporaching them because you have to remember, they don't know you and they dont' know what your intentions are.

When I was working on becoming a reserve deputy, I rode with a detective and other times rode with a regular deputy and neither of them were comfortable with having people approach them when they were parked. Nothing wrong with doing it, but it just makes them uneasy.

I've had nothing but positive encounters with law enforcement officers while chasing, the only encounters I've had while chasing were officers who approached me wanting to find out what was expected, that or they're just curious about what we do.

Morgan Palmer

04-05-2007, 06:17 PM

Good point. I meant that if one is parked, pull up alongside and roll down your window and chat. Again, there should be no traffic around when you do this. Sorry I didn't make myself clear, but it's a great point that when you're standing outside and they're sitting inside, that can be a problem.

Seems I saw a Youtube clip somewhere where those roles were reversed! :)

fplowman

04-05-2007, 06:48 PM

Well maybe we should make up some official looking "Storm Chaser Liscenses" We could have an 800 number on it and someone can man the phones to issue formal appologies and maybe even scoldings to the stormchaser if the officer deems it neccesary.

We can make it more believable by threatening to pull the liscense with the officer present.. and when he leaves we can all have a good laugh... All in fun of course : )

Joey Ketcham

04-05-2007, 07:04 PM

jason kissam

04-05-2007, 07:06 PM

i replied on this in another members blog, does everyone get a NWS card after the skywarn class? that card has gotten me off the hook as being more credible to the law enforcement community.

Jeff Miller

04-05-2007, 07:12 PM

ok...lets see...chase ethics on the field (well not quite but close)...lightbars....and now the Storm Chase Licenses....Im sure the "Storm Chase Association" idea will come up next...I have to love the yearly resurrection of ideas with absolutely no chance of production of said ideas. Next conversation I am sure will be the Ridge of Death that is sure to stop the season in its tracks before it even begins...

I swear I am going to someday make a calender forecasting the beginning of each annual thread and see how close I come to the actual production of said thread ;)

Would strongly caution anyone to NOT make fake storm chaser licenses as I believe presenting false documentation to a Law Enforcement Officer is a crime. I know most know that was written in jest and good humor, but well, you never know.

jason kissam

04-05-2007, 07:55 PM

i take it not all NWS and or SKYWARN classes issue cards? but it states the holders name and that they are a certified storm spotter. im sure all of on here has the proper training to do what we do. as for local law enforcement they got a job to protect the public. but when it leds to being rude, then we should have "proper documentation" to say we are trained to handel an observation of a severe storm no matter where in the US we are.

As for the lightbar thing its more of a safety thing from being a fire fighter but i dont have one now. but i noticed many chasers use a little yellow light for when pulled off on the road side just as a precautionary step. check with your state laws for DMV as per use of a amber light.

John Diel

04-05-2007, 08:42 PM

As far as overtaking and passing another vehicle on the roadway, the standard is usually reasonable and prudent speed. Basically, if the other vehicle is going 40 mph, don't pass him at 90!

On passing emergency vehicles, I would back off that one IF the emergency vehicle lights are on. Pull in behind the officer and wait for him to signal you. If he doesn't, the common rules of the road say don't pass him. If the officer is out for a Sunday drive and no emergency lights are on, he's fair game as any other vehicle.

I'm not even going to go into teh whole light bar or Storm Association thing. Yes. it comes up every year. This year seems to be a little bit later than usual. We came close back in 2004 to getting something organized, but it didn't happen.

For those that haven't figured it out (Newbies...) there is no license required other than your Driver's License (if operating a vehicle) to chase storms. NOAA does give a certificate of completion for Spotter Classes where required or asked, but otherwise, No, they don't give you anything.

Use your head for something other than a hat rack and a convenient place to look through an eyepiece. Common sense and defensive driving will keep you out of more trouble than anything else out there.

There are a few of us that have indeed completed Law Enforcement Driver Training and other Emergency Vehicle Operation course. I've been through several. They all boil down to using your head and not getting stupid.

Good luck to all and have a safe season this year!

jason kissam

04-05-2007, 09:08 PM

Sean Mullen

04-05-2007, 09:09 PM

bill mudd

04-05-2007, 09:23 PM

ending odd number licence plates chase on odd days:D
ending even number license plates chase on even days:rolleyes:

this cuts chasers down by exactly 1/2 - solved by sheriffanados

WELCOME TO 2010:eek:

Wesley Luginbyhl

04-05-2007, 09:37 PM

Jay Crane

04-05-2007, 11:09 PM

A side note to that, be careful at how you approach them - mainly when they're parked and in their vehicle. Some officers become uneasy when they look up and see someone apporaching them because you have to remember, they don't know you and they dont' know what your intentions are.

When I was working on becoming a reserve deputy, I rode with a detective and other times rode with a regular deputy and neither of them were comfortable with having people approach them when they were parked. Nothing wrong with doing it, but it just makes them uneasy.

I've had nothing but positive encounters with law enforcement officers while chasing, the only encounters I've had while chasing were officers who approached me wanting to find out what was expected, that or they're just curious about what we do.

I agree cops that are parked get a little spooked when unknown people come up to them like that. I sometimes unsnap my holster as soon as a car approches me. You just never know it could be a nice storm chaser letting me know somethings comming my way or a crazy that has played WAY too much GTA... YOU JUST NEVER KNOW!

Jay Crane

04-05-2007, 11:27 PM

I just watched the video and I've chased here and there. I have never seen that many chasers all in one spot! With any job you are going to have some good and bad apples. If that was me ( the cop) on that day. I think I just would of sat back and watched all these chasers go crazy for the storm and stopped someone if they were doing something really stupid. I am not going to try and round up or pull over like 100 cars by myself thats just dumb. :)

Dan Robinson

04-05-2007, 11:28 PM

I agree cops that are parked get a little spooked when unknown people come up to them like that.

My brother and I were shooting lightning in Chicago last year, and were having difficulty finding a parking garage that would let us set up our tripods under their shelter. We found one right as a storm was in progress, having been asked to leave the previous one. We thought it was empty and proceeded to run to the top to set up, only to round the corner and see a Chicago PD cruiser in front of us. Thinking that they had surely seen us, we'd better go over and explain what we were doing there before they kicked us out like the others had. When we got to the cruiser, and I mean right there next to the window, we saw the two cops inside were asleep! We were lucky they didn't wake up right then or we might have been shot, carrying these big objects (tripods) and all.

OK, back to the regularly scheduled thread.

SteveCarter

04-06-2007, 02:19 PM

I carry my SkyWarn framed certificate with me. Usually thrown in the back seat somewhere, and it HAS helped me as well. In fact, in Dumas, AR right after the tornado hit there, the police were going around telling people to get out. Later, when I needed back in, they turned just about everyone away, but let me in after I showed them the SkyWarn certificate.

In another episode, in Kansas last year, a cop pulled up to me while sitting on the side of the road, and told me to get the hell outta there...NOW! This was a lonely gravel road, with NO traffic, about a 1/4 mile from the main road. I was stunned. I asked him, "Which direction do YOU suggest I go, since there is a tornado warning for this area right now". He said, "I don't give a damn WHERE you go, but get outta HERE!" I did a U'ee, and went back to the main road, (which made NO sense), and went about a mile, then pulled over again, in a driveway, when I saw a guy in his yard, looking at the sky. I greeted him, told him what I was doing, and was thrilled I was there. Two minutes later, this SAME cop pulled up behind me with his lights on, and told me I was getting a ticket for.....RECKLESS DRIVING! I was pissed now, and said, "Bull****, I can sit in this driveway all I want." The cop said, "No, you can't". The guy whose driveway I was sitting in, walked up and said, "This is one of my best friends from South Carolina, and he can LIVE here if he wants to, so what's the ******* problem?" The cop glared at both of us, and got back in his car and literally spun gravel leaving! I stayed there about two hours, had dinner with his family, and left. One of my best memories. I'm sure this cop nailed someone immediately after leaving me there tho.

So, couple of ideas here...bring your SkyWarn stuff....it may help. And, pull into somebodies driveway, if they are outside, and just ask them if you can sit there. 99% will say yes, because you LOOK professional with all thise antenneas on your car, and usually they are fascinated with what you're doing.

Joey Ketcham

04-06-2007, 02:49 PM

Robert Rohloff

04-06-2007, 08:58 PM

I have been a law enforcement officer for 30 years and currently am a supervisor. I watched the video and have a few comments on it.

1. The Deputy should not be yelling and using profanity like he did, that is not acceptable.

2. Driver of the white vehicle should be cited for stopping in the roadway and blocking the traffic lane a dangerous situation for all.

3. Passing a moving emergency vehicle on the right not a good idea.

4. Do not drive around a police unit that is across the roadway with out stopping and finding it if you can proceed. It constiutes a roadblock in most states and driving past it is a felony, or in some cases a citation and fine.

5. If like you say on the video "I can do whatever I want" well bring your bond money with you because it will come in handy.....

In an emergency such as a tornado a law enforcement officer can shut any roadway down and limit access to even the full time media if they believe it is the interest of safety. At that point you have to obey or be subject to charges.

After reading some of the stories here of the driving going on and seeing the cluster of people chasing, I can see why he was mad, however he HAS to remain in control and not lose his temper. there are people that only understand the message when you yell at them......If he said move that is not open for arguement on the side of the road.

Going 85-100 miles an hour while occupied with looking at or for the storm is very dangerous. Passing people going the speed limit is speeding and a goodway to get a citation since there is no reason to pass at the speed limit.

Many chasers are good mutitaskers and can drive and talk and look at radar, but we have some people I have seen who are just plain DWHUA.
No video or storm is worth one of us being killed or hurt. And remember not everyone out there is a chaser, you might have the mom on the phone pull out in front of you.....

Brian A. Schmidt

04-06-2007, 09:05 PM

I saw the video of the cop yelling and I'd have to say that if that happened around Cincinnati, where I live, such behavior would not be all that outrageous. I'm thinking that people out in the Oklahoma countryside just might have a different expectation of what police behavior/manners should be. Perhaps things, on average, are a bit more laid back in the midwest farmland. If you come to some of the larger cities in the east, police tempers are a lot shorter and they are not so easygoing. I once approached an officer to ask for info. and his hand went quickly to his hip and he dropped into a crouching "ready" position. Then there was the time that nightsticks were drawn. I've heard other people around here talk of being beat up, sometimes after the cuffs were on. And since I used to be a Corrections Officer at the county jail, I've seen my share of "beat-up" people dropped off for processing. My opinion is AVOID police contact, maintain your distance from them whether driving or on foot--it doesn't matter that you are not doing anything wrong-- even if you are obeying all laws...you still have nothing to gain by having contact with them. JMHO!!!

Jay McCoy

04-06-2007, 09:16 PM

I have been a law enforcement officer for 30 years and currently am a supervisor. I watched the video and have a few comments on it.

1. The Deputy should not be yelling and using profanity like he did, that is not acceptable.

After reading some of the stories here of the driving going on and seeing the cluster of people chasing, I can see why he was mad, however he HAS to remain in control and not lose his temper. there are people that only understand the message when you yell at them......If he said move that is not open for arguement on the side of the road.

I am curious Robert since you are a supervisor. What is your take on this officer calling Jasons employer and making up the story about being run off the road?? Jason has video of the encounter in which he did pass the officer after the officer slowed in the left lane. The the officer pulled in behind him. Then he was pulled over, pulled out of the truck and threatened with arrest. He was never run off the road into a ditch as he claimed to Jasons boss.

1. If you were run off the road by a vehicle would you not either arrest or cite the driver??

2. Is it illegal for an officer to call somebodys employer and fabricate a story in the attemp to get them in trouble or fired??

I look forward to yout take on this..

We all agree about the circus on the road that day but what he did hour later to me went way beyond out of control and legal. LUckily the cops I work with daily wouldnt pull this kind of crap. Most the ones I know are very professional and honest.

Robert Rohloff

04-06-2007, 09:34 PM

I would not call his employer unless it was something like he was suspended driving a company vehicle. If you did not issue a citation for the alleged serious violation of running you off the road why make the call. Ilegal no but could be a civil liability.

I would remind everyone that putting the emergency lights on and slowing the traffic going into the storm is more for the public who is unsuspecting. I would contact his agency and also show them the video. With out someone telling them how are they to know his actions.

There is always going to be an officer or trooper that would write his mother a citation. The best thing we can do for ourselves if drive safe. Never argue on the side of the road, take a citation to court and your complaint to the agency, you do not want to be arrested....

I would add the accusations to the station into the complaint showing the video where it did not happen like the Deputy said.

Bryce Stone

04-07-2007, 02:38 AM

One flip side that no one has brought up is that the LEO in question may retaliate if Jason speaks up. He may be the friend of a friend of someone in legislation, and we could see a major crackdown on chasers from this incident or one like it. There are law enforcement forums out there, and he may have dash cam footage of chasers acting stupid. Those of us who drive obvious chaser vehicles may be harrassed at every turn if he spreads the word among central plains agencies that chasers need to be shut down.

I know that everything discussed so far are VERY tired subjects, but would they be brought up every year if they were absolutely meaningless subjects? I know I'm fairly new to the scene by some standards, but even I can see that there are valid issues here which will undoubtedly be addressed at some point in the future. As I've said before, it's just a question of who will be addressing the problem . . . my bet is on state legislatures, since all chasers do is talk about it.

I wholeheartedly agree with Gene on the lightbars. I've seen many chasers running up and down the road with them on (including wig-wag headlight flashers) and it is unneccessary. I have eight hidden strobe bulbs, headlight flashers, taillight flashers, and two amber LED mini lightbars on my car and they ARE blinding, but I don't use them for chasing (or even while sitting on the side of the road). I would only use them in the case of an actual emergency, and then only while my vehicle was stationary and as a warning device for motorists. By the way, if a cop ever asks you about your lights, tell him/her that they are "stationary warning devices." That's what a LEO friend of mine told me to say. The only thing I might use on the side of the road are the amber LED bars on the rear deck, and then only if the situation warranted it. I can see no valid reason for chasers to be running lights while in motion unless visibility is extremely poor (heavy rain).

Of course, Gene probably thinks my decals are silly, so we don't agree on that point. :)

As far as the incident, I did watch the video and was appalled at the behavior of that cop. I don't know both sides of the incident shown in the video, but screaming at someone and slamming their car door is unprofessional by any standards (even, I should hope, in Cincinatti). Unfortunately, anyone who has power is tempted at some point to abuse it, and nothing will ever change this facet of human nature. Is it right? No, and those affected should fight back against abuse of power. Just be prepared for the law enforcement community to retaliate against us for calling them out.

On a personal experience note, I made contact with two different LEOs in the northern Texas panhandle that day and both were really polite and professional.

BTW, on filming traffic stops: get one of those "spy" pinhole cameras or the like (with audio) and mount it on the front dash or door pillar out of sight but facing your driver's side window. Set up a button to automatically start the recording process when you press it. If you're tech-savvy at all, you should be able to feed it to your laptop or some kind of recording device. That way the whole process is automated like so: see the lights in your rearview and press the button. Bingo presto, the whole incident is automatically documented with no one the wiser but you. I imagine you could set this up for around $100 or so. I'm considering doing it and will post exactly how I did it after I get it set up.

Dave Ewoldt

04-07-2007, 06:02 AM

Ref several posts back where people were talking about just holding a video camera while the officer talks to you... Remember, if he asks you to put it down....you have to. It doesn't matter if you are holding a tire tool, baseball bat or a video camera....he can consider and act as if you are holding a weapon. With all the discussion over someone being yelled at....I can imagine what would happen the first time a storm chaser is tasered!

Shane Adams

04-07-2007, 06:59 AM

I can imagine what would happen the first time a storm chaser is tasered!

Me too...the chaser would probably p@#$ all over him/herself

Robert Dewey

04-07-2007, 07:17 AM

Nope - our very own human lightning rods (David Drummond, et al.) would simply walk away and say "wow - that was close" ;)

Laura Hedien

04-07-2007, 07:25 AM

Remember.... if you're getting a "chewing" you probably won't get a ticket unless you really screwed up.
If you're not getting chewed on, you are getting a ticket.
Least that's how I roll. :) I work part time as a conservation/police officer (tree cop) for Lake Co Forest Preserves in Illinois. Been doing it since '93.
If you are getting chewed on, the officer probably doesn't have enough to write you a ticket but just to feel good he/she will yell at you.
Sounds like this officer has a "chubby" for storm chasers and is abusing his authority, especially if you weren't violating any vehicle codes.
I would consider tactfully approaching his supervisor depending on how strongly you feel about this.
This is a prime example (not saying your vehicle is this way) of why not to look like a foaming storm chaser.
Be safe out there.
Laura

David Drummond

04-07-2007, 09:25 AM

I still think you guys are giving this LEO way too much credit. AGAIN, this is a VERY i.e. EXTREMELY RURAL county. There are essentially only TWO roads in the entire county and only two REALLY SMALL communities. I doubt there are more than 6 law enforcement people in the entire county. This county rarely sees crime, the roads that go through there rarely see cars for that matter. I've driven those two roads many a times and there have been times I have driven through the entire county without seeing another car. I realize many of you live in more populated areas and have never really experienced life in such a community, so you may have difficulty understanding how things work in such "little" places.

The point is, in places like this (which are getting more and more rare west of the Mississippi) to the people living there not much exists outside their world in the county. This guy probably personally knows every single person in the county. Heck, he probably attended most of their weddings. They all sit around at the coffee shop with each other, the have dinner together. Communities like this are close nit.

Now put yourself in that guys place. He's sitting there watching what was looking like it was going to be a large tornado developing and heading right in to his home town with all his good close friends and neighbors and family. How would you feel? Probably scared to death for all of them!

And then on your normally quite country roads an armada of vehicles appear, some not acting so nice, running back and forth trying to see his home town and friends and family blown away. How would you feel then?

I can imagine he was scared from the event, worried about his community, didn't know what the hell to do with all the people that just showed up out of nowhere that he NOW also has to worry about their safety. I can guarantee you that he probably hasn't even met more than one or two storm chasers before if that many. He doesn't know what to expect from them.

I'm not trying to justify is actions as what I saw on that video, and what Jason reported was out of line, especially after the fact. What I am trying to do is get you guys to maybe possibly see his side of it and consider how he might have been feeling at the time that made him act the way he did.

Given that I was in his position, I can't say I might not have acted similarly. Police officer or not, he still human with human emotions. Probably a police officer with little or no experience dealing with a sudden mob on a storm that was a potential killer.

I will say when he had the road in to town blocked, I pulled up beside him where he could see the vehicle and the logos, told him we were tracking this live on the air and if I could proceed, and he nodded that it was ok.

Earl Faubion

04-07-2007, 10:18 AM

Laura brings up a good point. Some officers subscribe to the unofficial policy of administering a butt chewing or a ticket, but not both. That being said, the profanity is out of line.

And David's last post hits the nail on the head. 'Nuff said.

Dave Ewoldt

04-07-2007, 10:45 AM

Earl Faubion

04-07-2007, 11:58 AM

My suggestion is to make a mental note to behave and pay attention when driving around Silverton and go on business as usual in the rest of the alley.

How about if we behave and pay attention everywhere, not just around Silverton. This time the deputy was only warning people, albeit in a rather obnoxious way. Next time it could be the quiet deputy who's going to pull over motorists one at a time and hang some expensive paper on them. Not being able to stop everyone doesn't mean he can't stop some. It's an effective method that has been used before in similar situations.

Jesse Risley

04-07-2007, 12:02 PM

I agree that this is being blown way out! Storm chasers have driven millions of miles over the last 30 years without similar incidents and because someone got yelled at (not arrested, not touched, not ticketed) people are willing to start doing everything from installing spy cameras to having Al Sharpton ride shotgun.

My suggestion is to make a mental note to behave and pay attention when driving around Silverton and go on business as usual in the rest of the alley.

I think this post makes good sense. I have to agree that the LEO appears to be acting unprofessional (but remember we are only getting the chaser side of the story - it's hard for me to judge since I was not present), but how many times has something this extreme happened? This is the first incident of such severity that I can recall being posted here.

However, I do think that the increasing number of chasers in the field will/has lead to a proportional increase in the number of chasers who are "bone heads" and act like idiots behind the wheel. Therefore, I expect we will hear more about chasers being ticketed or "yelled at" in the future. I'm sure most of use are civil behind the wheel, but perception becomes reality and people will always stereotype a whole group (like chasers) based on the common actions of a few. If this behavior becomes a problem, I fear LEOs will start treating chasers like people who own radar detectors - you don't get any breaks, you just get a hard ticket.

We should all take a lesson in civility away from this scenario and remember that increasing numbers of negative encounters between LEOs and chasers could result in more incidents of this nature and it could be you on the receiving end sometime down the road....just something to think about. Just drive sensibly and you won't receive a coupon from the police for $100 off your next paycheck.;)

Michael Rogers

04-07-2007, 12:05 PM

Now put yourself in that guys place. He's sitting there watching what was looking like it was going to be a large tornado developing and heading right in to his home town with all his good close friends and neighbors and family. How would you feel? Probably scared to death for all of them!

And then on your normally quite country roads an armada of vehicles appear, some not acting so nice, running back and forth trying to see his home town and friends and family blown away. How would you feel then?
Plus the fact all of his close friends and family were probably calling scared to death at not only the storm, but also all these people around. Heck, if all of these storm chasers are here then something MUST be coming!

Also remember that even if this officer called for backup (assuming somebody did get out of line) his backup is probably 45 minutes to an hour away (yes, that is a realistic number). For example, in Northwest Kansas the state police have what they call "Troop D” responsible for that portion of the state. At times, there is just ONE Kansas State Patrol Officer for all 18 counties. Think about that for a second. If he gets in trouble, his closest backup could be coming from a quarter state away! Needless to say, that officer was well outnumbered that day. Remember that he doesn't know any of you and you all could potentially put himself or his community in danger. Let alone having a tornado to worry about.

As with the others, I'm not trying to discredit what this officer did. It appears he was completely out of line. But come on guys, cops are people too, plucked right out from the public. I've seen some videos of storm chasers screaming as if their head was cut off while watching a tornado. Now replace that excitement with fear and anxiety while trying to protect your entire county by yourself (with no knowledge on severe thunderstorms to boot). Other than some bruised feelings, nothing happened.

It is imperative that the storm chaser/law enforcement community keep a good relationship. Because if storm chasers get into a pissing match with law enforcement, we will lose.

I'm not going to invest in a $100 system to monitor police officers on traffic stops, etc. This is just silly. This isolated situation may happen from time to time but to feel the need to actually have a system in place to protect myself is blowing everything way out of proportion.

As for the flashing lights, I have the same views as most of you. I have one flashing amber light that I can stick on the roof of my car, but have never actually used it. The only time I'd use it is if I was trying to warn other motorists of a flooded roadway, power lines down, etc. I DO have some magnet "SkyWarn" decals that I stick to the side of my car while I'm chasing. Reason being that when I pull over by a farmer’s field, I want them to know that I'm not there trying to do any damage to his field or cause problems. Believe it or not, farmers are very paranoid about their land and often watch through binoculars at a great distance if they see somebody. I was once told to leave by a farmer after I pulled over next to his field. While I technically was on a public roadway, I complied and apologized for making him uneasy.

All in all, what the cop did was WRONG! Period! But come on guys; let’s not go overboard on this.

Joey Ketcham

04-07-2007, 01:28 PM

Check this out..

http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64693

Gerard Jebaily

04-07-2007, 05:23 PM

Does anybody else have any footage of any sort of something like this from that day? I only have the one video on youtube which has part of a yelling from that cop. More footage would be good.

Danny Neal

04-07-2007, 05:24 PM

:Referencing David Drummonds point and others side notes about feeling human emotion in that time:

I can totally see the correlation between that. Even by the "pro-tornado" thread we have. He sitting over there S******* bricks about his life and family/friends potentially being wiped away, and he sees a bunch of out of state/in state chasers, all bunched up on the side of the road, doing cartwheels(figuratively speaking) at the event. I mean I am not saying those of you out there were actually out loud saying "HELL YEAH TURN BABY TURN!" but I mean I guess I realize both sides of the story. Like I said before his outbursts were out of line, but as Dave and Michael elluded too, who among us, wouldn't be upset and overwhelmed, if you saw your own house/life being destroyed or come close to be, and a little hostile if you had a bunch of "strangers" sitting there doing high fives, and screaming, and racing down the road. He probably figures....hmmm if that hit our town....how many of these guys would lend a helping hand? Not that we have to do it, but I can see where he would make a point where, he thinks "these dudes could give two damns about me and my lifestyle"

(This post is not to be anti-storm chasers and not at all how I feel about the civility of this guys actions, but more of a if I were in his shoes how would I feel about it)

Shane Adams

04-07-2007, 05:44 PM

I get the whole "his town and friends are in danger, he's freaked out" thing...I understand. But my mere presence, regardless of the situation, doesn't warrant a verbal outburst. I'm very cordial and respectful around law officers, but I refuse to become the bad guy because I'm there and he's worked up over something I understand far better than he does.

All I'm saying is, when I've done nothing wrong, I expect to be treated with respect, not used as a punching bag for someone's panic attack. And even when I am, I still comply (though it's through protest). I'm a big enough human being to let it go, knowing the guy is stressed out. But an officer, when the dust settles, taking the impression away from it that the chaser (possibly me) is a law-breaker/hulligan/trouble-maker....that's wrong. Being in a position of authority, part of the training is learning how to seperate emotions from duty...clearly any cop or sherriff who harbors ill will towards chasers they merely encountered during the s$#%storm, after the event has passed, has failed in that aspect of his/her job.

Jay McCoy

04-07-2007, 06:16 PM

I agree with Shane.

I agree This guy was freaked out and under extreme stress during this event and acted as many a human would and lashed out at what he thought was people "gettting off" on what was causing his stress.

The only huge problem I have had with this entire situation is what he did hours later well after the storm, the chasers, and his cause of the stress was long gone and that was calling Jason's boss in what appears to be retaliation. He purposely lied and tried to get him in trouble or fired. That is the 1 point I cant get beyond and NOBODY has even tried to justify. Yes during the event it is understandable but the post event act is not. It almost makes me embarrassed to wear my badge but I know the majority of cops/fire/emergency service/EMT's act professionally. At least the ones I work with.

Danny Neal

04-07-2007, 07:15 PM

I agree...with you both.

I am not making excuses for him, and I agree with Shane totally about how its not our fault the tornado happened so stop taking it out on us. And Jay's continuing point is the clincher in this. Its a win win situation for this guy. He can ruin another guys name and reputation, while there is nothing we can do to ruin his, even if we wanted to. As Dave pointed out, this guy could probably get away with murder because its an "everybody, knows everybody" basis.

I can say if I were confronted with that situation, I would be in jail. I do not take kindly for getting ripped a new one, ESPECIALLY since I am not hurting lives or property. Well this is like beating on a dead horse now. Unless someone actually brings it to the attention of the department or media, and even so it doesn't matter anyway, because other than we, the storm chasing community, whose going to care.

SteveCarter

04-07-2007, 08:55 PM

<<<<<< I agree that this is being blown way out! Storm chasers have driven millions of miles over the last 30 years without similar incidents and because someone got yelled at (not arrested, not touched, not ticketed) people are willing to start doing everything from installing spy cameras to having Al Sharpton ride shotgun. >>>>>>>

I think there are a LOT more incidents than you think...they just have never been brought up. See my post #135. I WAS going to get a ticket, not just a verbal chewing out, and had I actually gotten one, there is no way I would have not have went to court. The thing is....I don't care if the police officer is scared, having a panic attack, or what, he STILL should not have behaved like that...period. If he crumbles at the first sign of a potential crisis, he needs to look for another job. One of my best friends is a cop, and I couldn't do what he does, but.....that's why I'm not a cop. I saw the video too, and it should be turned over to a supervisor, and this guy should be reprimanded. I wish I would have done something last year, but I just shrugged it off, and really never thought anymore about it, until now. I WILL say too...95% of the cops have been ok, and even a couple of them stayed around to chat and talk weather.

John Diel

04-07-2007, 09:23 PM

In hopes of putting this to bed, I will say this much. No matter how outraged we, as individuals, may be, no matter how we thought the incident in question went down, WE aren't the agreived party(ies). We as chasers should not take it upon ourselves to "punish" this officer for his actions. That is for those who had direct contact with the officer to pursue (or not) as they see fit.

David Drummond has had the best voice IMHO so far. Go back and read his posts. Place yourself in both paties shooes with the circumstances as they were at the time. How would I react in that given situation? I don't really know. I would hope that I would act professionally on either side of the fence.

One thing I fear most about Storm Spotting is that I may, one day, have to observe and report on a tornado bearing down on my little town and my home, family and friends. I hope that I can remina professional enough to save a few lives. Would I? I simply don't know.

After 17 years in almost ALL aspects of Emergency Services, I do have a certain expertise to fall on, but I can tell you, all bets are off where family is concerned.

We've spoken our piece about the incident (at least most have). Almost all the views have been expressed and laid before those who were actually there and had occasion to be involved. Leave it at that and let those folks make thier decisions accordingly. For some, there's way too much adreneline starting to pump. I've read some really hacked off comments here and they aren't appropriate in my opinion. Let's all back off and cool down. Let's get back to what our passion really is here. WEATHER!

Robert Rohloff

04-07-2007, 11:16 PM

AMEN...........LETS GET BACK TO TRACKING.! Spring is young, no sense getting too wound so early...........

Tarmo Tanilsoo

04-08-2007, 12:14 AM

Amen!

Back to the weather...

KMcCallister

04-11-2007, 12:26 AM

Just how big do chaser covergances get? I am wondering if anyone has seen over a 100 chasers/people on a tornado? I would assume it will only get worse as more and more people are interestd in chasing every year. I assume OK and KS has the biggest storm chasing crowds?
Have a nice day.

EASILY over 100 on some tornados. (Maybe more like 1000) Was anybody anywhere near Mulvane on June 12, 2004? There were hundreds of cars of just locals that I saw along with all the usual chasers. There were probably 100 people if you only counted the ones in the backs of pickup beds with beer coolers. Are they what we like to call "real chasers"? Obviously mostly not, but to cops, there is precisely zero difference.