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Alexandre Aguiar
10-23-2007, 10:04 AM
Over 20 towns were affected by giant hail in the evening hours of Saturday (October 20th) in the Brazilian southermost state of Rio Grande do Sul. Over two hundred people were injured by the huge hailstones. 21 thousand homes and buildings suffered total ou partial damage. Car windows in the streets were smashed. The photos are incredible:

http://www.metsul.com/secoes/visualiza.php?cod_subsecao=28&cod_texto=956

We strongly suspect a tornado caused part of the damage observed in the city of Ronda Alta. Here are the pictures from that town:

http://www.metsul.com/secoes/visualiza.php?cod_subsecao=28&cod_texto=955

Alexandre

Chad Cowan
10-23-2007, 11:21 AM
Over 20 towns were affected by giant hail in the evening hours of Saturday (October 20th) in the Brazilian southermost state of Rio Grande do Sul. Over two hundred people were injured by the huge hailstones. 21 thousand homes and buildings suffered total ou partial damage. Car windows in the streets were smashed. The photos are incredible:

http://www.metsul.com/secoes/visualiza.php?cod_subsecao=28&cod_texto=956
Alexandre

Is that a meter stick in the pictures half way down, under Santo Cristo? It's tough to tell if the ruler is in the correct position to measure, but the picture with the stone on the scale is ~11cm which is 4.33 inches, and ~350g (.77lbs)... wow.

To put that into perspective, the largest recorded hail stone (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/08/0804_030804_largesthailstone.html) in the US was 17.8cm (7in). This record was almost broken (http://www.stormtrack.org/forum/showthread.php?p=147920) this year in SD.

Eric Flescher
10-23-2007, 11:49 AM
I did not know Babe Ruth was a stormchaser?
Re:("Never let the fear of busting keep you from chasing." -Babe Ruth (?))


harhar

but seriously

wasn't the record hailstone in Kansas or Nebraska and then the record was rewrittne in Nebraska or SD a couple of years ago?
Are world records of hail by diameter , circumference or what ?

wasn't there some conjecture or argument relating to the biggest and what makes the hail the biggest?


:::::

Is that a meter stick in the pictures half way down, under Santo Cristo? It's tough to tell if the ruler is in the correct position to measure, but the picture with the stone on the scale is ~11cm which is 4.33 inches, and ~350g (.77lbs)... wow.

To put that into perspective, the largest recorded hail stone (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/08/0804_030804_largesthailstone.html) in the US was 17.8cm (7in). This record was almost broken (http://www.stormtrack.org/forum/showthread.php?p=147920) this year in SD.

Terry Tyler
10-23-2007, 12:10 PM
wow, those are some of the most amazing photos ive ever seen with hail and whatnot...

very interesting article, alexandre...though i cant really read it...

Earl Faubion
10-23-2007, 12:29 PM
A couple of good sites for translating text or page links:
http://babelfish.altavista.com/
http://www.google.com/translate_t (http://babelfish.altavista.com/)

scott r currens
10-24-2007, 09:01 AM
Over 20 towns were affected by giant hail in the evening hours of Saturday (October 20th) in the Brazilian southermost state of Rio Grande do Sul. Over two hundred people were injured by the huge hailstones. 21 thousand homes and buildings suffered total ou partial damage. Car windows in the streets were smashed. The photos are incredible:

http://www.metsul.com/secoes/visualiza.php?cod_subsecao=28&cod_texto=956

Wow, those must have been some amazing supercells to spit out hail that size. Do you have any satellite images saved from the event? The area looks hilly with only a few trees on google earth. I wish someone got a shot of one of the supercells. Certainly a destructive event that will take a long time to recover from.

We strongly suspect a tornado caused part of the damage observed in the city of Ronda Alta. Here are the pictures from that town:
http://www.metsul.com/secoes/visualiza.php?cod_subsecao=28&cod_texto=955
Alexandre
Narrow path of intense damage; I have to agree that it appears to be the result of a tornado. Not surprising given the gorilla hail from some obviously strong supercells.

David Drummond
10-24-2007, 09:28 AM
Anyone noticed the tornado image in the upper left? If you don't get it, reload the page, they change each time. I think it belongs to Eric Nguyen.
http://www.metsul.com/secoes/visuali...&cod_texto=956 (http://www.metsul.com/secoes/visualiza.php?cod_subsecao=28&cod_texto=956)

cdcollura
10-24-2007, 09:31 AM
Anyone noticed the tornado image in the upper left? If you don't get it, reload the page, they change each time. I think it belongs to Eric Nguyen.
http://www.metsul.com/secoes/visuali...&cod_texto=956

Yeah!

Isn't that the June 12, 2004 Mulvane storm?

Try right-clicking on the images and it won't let you save them either. I guess they practice what they don't preach ;-)

Alexandre Aguiar
10-25-2007, 12:42 AM
Mr. Christopher Collura

You used the right word. You "guess".

The photo is in fact from the source mentioned above and was selected by the webdesign company we contracted to design the homepage last year and not by us. Based on that finding, I will immediately order them to replace it by another photo we can provide.

Now you have the facts that allow you to guess and judge other people freely Mr. Collura.

Alexandre Aguiar

Alexandre Aguiar
10-25-2007, 12:52 AM
Wow, those must have been some amazing supercells to spit out hail that size. Do you have any satellite images saved from the event? The area looks hilly with only a few trees on google earth. I wish someone got a shot of one of the supercells. Certainly a destructive event that will take a long time to recover from.

Narrow path of intense damage; I have to agree that it appears to be the result of a tornado. Not surprising given the gorilla hail from some obviously strong supercells.

Scott

1. Satellite Images:

http://www.metsul.com/secoes/visualiza.php?cod_subsecao=28&cod_texto=954

Radar video from a dopller radar 350 miles far from the storms locations:

http://www.simepar.br/tempo2/palavrameteorologista/extras/temp201007.wmv

2. A survey was conducted in the last hours by the government's weather center and they concluded it was an EF2.

Best wishes

Alexandre

jladue
10-25-2007, 09:45 PM
I didn't know that the Brazilian government adopted the EF scale. I believe it's the only country outside the US to do so. I wonder what training they used. Atmosphere Environment Canada decided not to adopt it because of its complexity.

Jim

Darren Stephens
10-28-2007, 10:34 PM
That is the Mulvane tornado. I was there and have a photo that is very similar.

Robert Rohloff
10-29-2007, 05:30 PM
Thanks for sharing, it is always interesting to see events in other parts of the world. I am glad not to have been near that hail event.

Ernani Nascimento
11-08-2007, 01:24 PM
I didn't know that the Brazilian government adopted the EF scale. I believe it's the only country outside the US to do so. I wonder what training they used. Atmosphere Environment Canada decided not to adopt it because of its complexity.

Jim

Hello Jim,
No Brazilian government agency adopts the EF or F scale for rating damage caused by tornadoes/severe_storms. In fact, there is no Brazilian agency **regulating** damage assessments associated with severe weather events in that country.

What happens is that there is a team of researchers -- which only very recently became part of a national research institute in southern Brazil -- that has been conducting damage assessments for a while and have gained lots of experience doing that. They are doing a fantastic job, but as yet their effort does not represent a truly official tornado damage assessment. I do believe (and hope) that this initiave, still in "research mode", will lead to a regulation on tornado/storm damage assessment in Brazil in the future, which may or may not adopt the EF scale. So we cannot say that in Brasil the EF scale is adopted.
Cheers!
Ernani

Eric Flescher
11-08-2007, 01:36 PM
Did it say what the biggest ones were - the size? sorry if I missed it?

Nice pics



http://www.metsul.com/secoes/visualiza.php?cod_subsecao=28&cod_texto=956

Thanks for posting !!!

Alexandre Aguiar
11-08-2007, 10:39 PM
Hello Jim,
No Brazilian government agency adopts the EF or F scale for rating damage caused by tornadoes/severe_storms. In fact, there is no Brazilian agency **regulating** damage assessments associated with severe weather events in that country.

What happens is that there is a team of researchers -- which only very recently became part of a national research institute in southern Brazil -- that has been conducting damage assessments for a while and have gained lots of experience doing that. They are doing a fantastic job, but as yet their effort does not represent a truly official tornado damage assessment. I do believe (and hope) that this initiave, still in "research mode", will lead to a regulation on tornado/storm damage assessment in Brazil in the future, which may or may not adopt the EF scale. So we cannot say that in Brasil the EF scale is adopted.
Cheers!
Ernani

This team of researchers is the Group of Natural Disasters - South for the National Institute of Space Studies, one of the Brazilian government weather agencies. Two national governamental institutions forecast weather and climate in Brazil. One of them is the National Institute of Space Studies (INPE).

Ernani Nascimento
11-09-2007, 03:25 AM
This team of researchers is the Group of Natural Disasters - South for the National Institute of Space Studies, one of the Brazilian government weather agencies. Two national governamental institutions forecast weather and climate in Brazil. One of them is the National Institute of Space Studies (INPE).

Hi Alexandre!
Well, I don't know if in your reply you agree or not with what I say in my message.

But if the question is "Is the EF scale offically adopted Brazil?" the answer is "no" because, in contrast with other countries (at least USA and Canada, and maybe Australia and very few others), there is no regulation in Brazil stating who is responsible for conducting the damage assessments, the methodology and criteria to be used in those assessments, and what damage scale should be adopted.

The INPE-Sul research team still performs the damage assessments in a research mode (and they **are** attempting to employ the EF scale), and this is why they refer to their initiative as a project in their web page. But what is a project today may become an official "operational procedure" in the future. This is my hope. Then the weather centers (INPE-CPTEC and INMET, the latter being the official Brazilian National Weather Service) could report results of the damage assessments performed by the team responsible for that activity. I do not know if or when this is going to happen.

I have been visiting Metsul's webpage frequently to know what is going on in terms of severe weather in Brazil/Argentina. Keep the good job!

Alexandre Aguiar
11-09-2007, 05:04 AM
I agree. I just clarified that they are not independent researchers, but part of one of the two goverment's weather centers. As their reports come under the seal of the institution, I presume its is the "official assessment". By the way, I hate that expression "official". Officialy, it snow in Southern Brazil in just 6 towns on September 4th 2006, but the event was observed in near 100cities. As "official weather" in Brazil does take in account any weather observation out of the government stations, some historical events as snowstorms of the past are much better reported by press than by weather records. Another point. A frequently expression in the media: "the official lowest temperature". If a weather station maintained by SIMEPAR records 40 degrees and the highest temperature recorded by INMET is 37, the media will report the official high of 37. So, the 40 degrees record does not count. It is an absurd. But we hear that in the media everyday. For example, here in Porto Alegre we are tracjing rainfall in ten points of the cities. But always the local media reports: "it rained 40 milimeters in the official station", despite records of 60, 70, 80 mm all over town.

Ernani Nascimento
11-09-2007, 12:00 PM
I agree. I just clarified that they are not independent researchers, but part of one of the two goverment's weather centers. As their reports come under the seal of the institution, I presume its is the "official assessment".

INPE-Sul is not a weather center, but this is not the point because tornado damage assessment does not have to be an activity of a weather center. The point is: the tornado damage assessment conducted by INPE-Sul is part of a project. If another group from any other federal institution decides to perform their own assessment with a completely different methodology (even for the same event) and using, say, the TORRO scale they can. There is nothing avoiding that. So is the EF-scale the brazilian choice for a tornado damage assessment scale? No. INPE-Sul adopts it in their project.

I just replied to an earlier comment that also mentioned the fact that Canada **offcially** decided not to adopt the EF scale. This is the relevant perspective for comparison here.

Sorry, but the other things that you bring up address a completely different issue from what I wanted to clarify, and thus I am no going to post any oppinion on that.

Cheers.

Alexandre Aguiar
11-09-2007, 08:50 PM
INPE-Sul is not a weather center, but this is not the point because tornado damage assessment does not have to be an activity of a weather center.

I agree INPE-Sul is not a weather center in Brazil, but it is a branch of a weather institution. Sorry you didn't adress the other point I made. It would be nice to know your opinion on the matter in this forum dedicated to debate weather issues.