meteorology classroom 'room'

[CHris Whitehead]

I have a suggestion for the ST forum.
How bout a room devoted to nothing but meteorology classroom discussion in a homework help type fashion. I know most people on this site arent meteorologist but for the few that are it would be a great public service to those that are taking classes to become one.

[Danny Neal]

Love the idea. I feel kind of intimidated sometimes asking higher level(experience and schooling-wise) basic questions that may come as a walk in the park to them. It would be awesome to have a room where you can just go for it. I know weather and chasing is sort of that whole area, but sometime it leads into off-topic discussions. Although I am sure it will if we create another area as well. It is a great idea, and I would be all for it.

[Tim Vasquez]

Well, there's no reason this can't be discussed in Weather & Chasing... there's a lot of people that would flock to help out on the simplest topics. Can you just put "Dumb Question" or "Newbie Question" in the subject line? I have a recollection of trying a dedicated forum a couple of years ago but it didn't get enough use. If anyone gives you crap about posting a simple question, rest assured it's not cool with me... ST is not so much a social club as it is a place to share knowledge.

Tim

[Doug Lee]

ST is not so much a social club as it is a place to share knowledge.

Tim

That's one of the major reasons I come here, to learn. I figure if I read enough forecasts, nowcasts, reports and discussions, some of that terminology will stick in my head and I will eventually come to learn how all the details of storm development come together. Until I can afford Tim's book, this is one of the best resources available.

WB, Mr. T! I wish more people would remember what you said.

[Willie Dines]

I'm beginning to think that I'm better off just learning as I go along, by reading the many various postings on here, in the various rooms :), after all, we're all here to live and learn, as well as to enjoy the social side of chasing :)

Willie

[Robert Dewey]

Well, there's no reason this can't be discussed in Weather & Chasing... there's a lot of people that would flock to help out on the simplest topics. Can you just put "Dumb Question" or "Newbie Question" in the subject line? I have a recollection of trying a dedicated forum a couple of years ago but it didn't get enough use. If anyone gives you crap about posting a simple question, rest assured it's not cool with me... ST is not so much a social club as it is a place to share knowledge.

Tim

Hmm, I kind of enjoyed the old QA/FAQ forum. It might not have had a lot of use, but the quality definitely made up for it IMO.

[James Siler]

I would very much be interested as well. As I have a genral understanding of weather and the do's and don't when it's happeneing. But forecasting. Don't know how, don't understand and I think I as well as others would greatly benifit from it.

[Glen Romine]

I recall the old FAQ forum. Agree, it saw little use, and while the original idea was good, to avoid repetitive threads on the same topic cropping up time and again, it seemed very few users would actually use the archive to see if something was already discussed, and would just post away anyhow. So, might as well just have that continue in W&C, and for the few genuinely interested in learning more on topic, perhaps a ST front page article could be added that discusses how to use the forum 'search' feature to look up information on topics. A considerable body of information is buried within the ST site.

[MatthewCarman]

I think a complete and detailed weather guide for begginers and experts would be nice here at ST aswell as a forecasting guide. Alot of people come here to learn like I did and this would be a great way to learn. Sure I can go to other sites to get this info but we have alot of people here who know alot about the weather who may be willing to do this. Tim the almanac needs to be updated aswell. Just a suggestion.

[Forrest lambert]

wheres a good college around to study weather?

[Eric Flescher]

That would be good indeed. I think what might be good as I was just starting, are scenario real life weather and tornado storms using the examples, satellite and other shots to visualize the information. Also highlight the use of the various websites for the informational data.

Possibly a detailed outline to start filling in such a guide would be a way to start?


:::
I think a complete and detailed weather guide for begginers and experts would be nice here at ST aswell as a forecasting guide. Alot of people come here to learn like I did and this would be a great way to learn. Sure I can go to other sites to get this info but we have alot of people here who know alot about the weather who may be willing to do this. Tim the almanac needs to be updated aswell. Just a suggestion.

[MatthewCarman]

Yeah that sounds like the way to start. I did start on one by reading books and online sites and starting with the basics but did not get very far. Here is what I had so far and yes it is similar to the beggining of a weather book I own but not the same as I changed things around and edit it and plus I typed this all up by myself. If anyone would like to use it go ahead.

What is Weather?
Weather is a common ingredient in our every day lives yet for most people it is more mysterious than many other
aspects of nature. Weather is the instantaneous and constantly changing state of the atmosphere. The weather
affects everyone. For example the weather determines if a region is in a long term drought or has lot's of flooding
and weather also determines how much rain or how little rain a region gets. Knowledge of the forces and phenomina involved
in the weather can help the average person get a better understanding. This wiki is here to help you get a detailed list
of different weather phenomina and information aswell as a idea of how the weather works.

Large-Scale Airflow Patterns:
Earth's Atmosphere is driven into motion by the uneven heating of our planet by the sun. Now because the sun passes nearly
overhead at noon in the tropics the ground and air recieve much more solar heat then the polar regions where the sun is at
a lower angle thus spreads the available sunlight over much larger areas. Heated tropical air rises and spreads outward
towards the north and south poles, while the cold polar air sinks and flows towards the equater in the lower levels of the
Atmosphere. The airflow is called the "Hadley Circulation", after the englishmen who proposed the concept in 1735.
The complex pattern of winds we actually see is the Coriolis Effect which is the result of the Earth's roatation.
By the time the Coriolis effect reaches 20-30* N (and S) lattitude, the speed difference becomes so great that the
air no longer flows towards the poles but is deflected Eastward into the subtropical jet-stream, one of the strongest
and most consistent winds of the world. The Coriolis effect deflects all moving air on Earth to some degree. It is also
responsible for the spiral motions found in Hurricanes,Tornadoes and other Storms. The patterns and currents change
as the time of year or seasons change.
The westerlies is air that circles the globe at mid lattitudes and bows and bends thousunds of miles long.
The prevailing westerlies is winds blowing from the west. There is also the trade-wind easterlies and Artic easterlies.
Now the wind comes from the east.
Highs and Lows:
Embedded in the braod stream of the prevailing westerlies, smaller whirls and eddies push east and are responsible for
most of our weather. these whirls are the high and low pressure systes also known as cyclones and anticyclones or lows and highs.
Cyclones turn counterclockwise in the northern hemisphere while they turn clock wise in anticyclones in the southern hemishere
. Example most of Japan's tornadoes move clock wise while in the US most tornadoes move counter clockwise. These lows and highs
bring fair and foul weather with them. Cyclones are centers of low barometric pressure while anticyclones have high pressure. This is
for both hemispheres. Low pressure is from surrounding areas of higher pressure. Putting all of these motions
together, the air spirals outward from the center of a high pressure cyclone and inward for a low pressure cyclone.
Cyclones can be a small whirlwind or dust devil or a huge region of low pressure covering sometimes half a continent.
Cyclones almost always form on a boundary known as a front between artic air to the north and sub tropical air to the south.
With 4 basic kinds of fronts, and a boundary between opposing air masses may lie still for awhile before a cyclone develops.
If the air on the arm side of the front is moist then slow-moving thunderstorms may develop bringing heavy rain and floods but
these stationary front are usually fairly tranquil places with patches of light rain or snow resulting in drizzly weather.
As the cyclone starts spinning the stationary front starts moving. Northbound warm air marks a warm front usually on the east side of a stom center
while west of the center southbound cold air marks a cold front with artic air plunging south behind the cold front.
Along cold fronts heavier cold air shoves like a wedge beneath warm and usually moist air. This can cause the warm air to
force upward and cool making it's moisture condenses into clouds,rain and snow. The forced uplifing is often great enough that it results in
heavy showers and thunderstorms. Warmfronts overruns the cold air with a more gentler rising motion producing more moderate but longer lasting
rain and snowfalls. Ocludded fronts are cold and warm air mixing together. The warm sector, a wedge of warm air caught
between the two fronts shrinks. Allthought the warm sector is lifted off the ground for thousunds of miles it can still produce
rain and snow.
The cyclones departure brings clearing and cooler weather as the anticyclone or high bring in several days of nice dry weather.
As the anticyclone passes overhead or moves east winds turn southerly in advance to the next cyclone.

[CHris Whitehead]

Or just go to http://mensch.org/3113 for in depth and, might I also add, rigorous analysis of a college level intro course to atmospheric dynamics.

[Forrest lambert]

Does anyone know of a good college that i can go for Meteorology to work for the weather service or somthing? please email me with details!

[Patrick Martin]

This thread from last week in weather and chasing should help.
http://www.stormtrack.org/forum/showthread.php?t=13954

[Bob Hartig]

I really like this idea. I've been a member here for years, and I've learned a lot, but I still have a lot to learn. I continue to read and inform myself, and between last year and this year in particular, I've gained both knowledge and practical experience. But there's just so much to learn, and the very abundance of resources for self-education can be daunting. In lieu of a mentor to chase with who could actually show me the ins, outs, and subtleties of storm forecasting, an organized, virtual classroom approach would be a huge help. Man, I'd love that!

How would you go about implementing such a thing? How would you organize it?

A few thoughts:
* Because weather in itself is a broad, huge topic, it would probably be wise to consider how to create a syllabus that's relevant from a stormchasing perspective.
* Someone suggested actual assignments. Great idea!
* Show, don't just tell. For instance, I've read the definitions of shortwave troughs, but I have yet to see an example of how one shows up on a weather map.

[Mikey Gribble]

Meteorology and teaching somebody how to forecast is beyond huge. I just don't think it's possible to even begin to scratch the surface by setting up help pages on stormtrack. I think you're a lot better off utilizing other resources on the web. Tim would have to put in an insane amount of time to try to put together any sort of beginers forecasting page. You should honestly look into buying Tim's books for these kinds of things. The Forecasting Handbook was one of the first meteorology books I ever read and I still reread parts of it before each season. It's a great book IMO and so is the Weather Map handbook.
I had a few seasoned chasers that I emailed for help when I first started chasing and that helped a lot too. If you could find somebody like that to answer questions and give advice that would probably be a lot more useful IMO than a trainging guide of sorts. 90% of seasoned chasers are willing to help in my experience. All you have to do is ask. There are a million different books and web sources that can teach you everything you need to learn about meteorology. Although I think it would be nice, I don't think you could ask Tim to set up something like this.

[Bob Hartig]

I've got Tim's books, Mike, and others as well. I also tap into the online resources. And that's precisely why I agree with you that weather is, indeed, beyond a huge topic. However, I'm not convinced that a training approach relevant to stormchasing can't be tackled online. It wouldn't make expert forecasters out of anyone; however, if it is in fact feasible, it could produce more knowledgeable, better equipped chasers.

Realistically, there's no way that Tim or any one person could make it happen. It would have to be a community effort, tapping into the expertise of grad students, mets, and veteran chasers. And perhaps the idea isn't feasible. But perhaps it is. Don't be too quick to dismiss it. After all, the Stormtrack community is well established and gifted with some extremely knowledgeable people. I'd like to hear Tim's thoughts on the matter, since he's been gracious enough to lean in.

[Mikey Gribble]

Yeah if you focus in the approach it certainly would make it a little more feasible. Still a lot of work though. I tried to set up a page on my website with "rules of thumb" from notes I've taken over the years. I set up the web page for it, but I never got around to writing it. I'll try to get it done in the next couple days and see if that is similiar to what you're thinking. I also planned on putting some information on selecting a target for begining chasers, but it has more to do with mistakes not too make, so I guess it's more what not to do then what to do. Anyways, it might be helpful to some. I'll post a link when I get it finished. BTW a lot of the information that is going on that page are not my thoughts and ideas. Some are, but a lot of them were taken from books (Tim's amongst others) I've read and I did take the time to get the author's permission to post the notes I took from their books except for Doswell. He never replied to my email, but I'm tempted to post his stuff too and just cite it properly. His work is cited in enough places that I can't imagine him getting pissed at me for citing it on my website.

[Bob Hartig]

I was just adding onto my last post when I saw your reply, Mike. Thanks. This is a good discussion. Here's what I was going to tack onto my post...ah, crap, I lost the stuff I had copied! Hate it when that happens. Okay, I'll try to duplicate it here.

My first thought is, a lot of knowledge gets disseminated over time through a lot of resources and postings on Stormtrack. Here's one possibility for creating a more focused, organized, group educational approach:

* Select a textbook, such as Tim's forecasting handbook, along with ancillary material.
* Work through the material as a group, chapter by chapter on a two-week basis, supplementing the written material with a commentary thread from an instructor.
* Instructor commentary would be followed by question/answer/discussion on the same thread, then by homework (self-checking, of course), then by online solutions/answers to the homework, then by follow-up question/answer/discussion.
* While perhaps one instructor would want to tackle the entire course, I doubt that's realistic. A likelier scenario would involve recruiting a list of experts who would enjoy sharing their knowledge, and the classes would be divvied up between them. That way, no one gets burned out and it's fun for everyone.
* Those taking the course could provide a suggested donation. It might not make anyone's next mortgage payment, but it would be a nice way of acknowledging the time, interest, and knowledge of the instructors.

This is just a thumbnail of one possible approach. Obviously, the details would have to get fleshed out, and I'm sure there are other possibilities. My point right now is simply to offer food for thought and discussion.

[MatthewCarman]

I was just adding onto my last post when I saw your reply, Mike. Thanks. This is a good discussion. Here's what I was going to tack onto my post...ah, crap, I lost the stuff I had copied! Hate it when that happens. Okay, I'll try to duplicate it here.

My first thought is, a lot of knowledge gets disseminated over time through a lot of resources and postings on Stormtrack. Here's one possibility for creating a more focused, organized, group educational approach:

* Select a textbook, such as Tim's forecasting handbook, along with ancillary material.
* Work through the material as a group, chapter by chapter on a two-week basis, supplementing the written material with a commentary thread from an instructor.
* Instructor commentary would be followed by question/answer/discussion on the same thread, then by homework (self-checking, of course), then by online solutions/answers to the homework, then by follow-up question/answer/discussion.
* While perhaps one instructor would want to tackle the entire course, I doubt that's realistic. A likelier scenario would involve recruiting a list of experts who would enjoy sharing their knowledge, and the classes would be divvied up between them. That way, no one gets burned out and it's fun for everyone.
* Those taking the course could provide a suggested donation. It might not make anyone's next mortgage payment, but it would be a nice way of acknowledging the time, interest, and knowledge of the instructors.

This is just a thumbnail of one possible approach. Obviously, the details would have to get fleshed out, and I'm sure there are other possibilities. My point right now is simply to offer food for thought and discussion.

You mean have people pay to take a educational course in weather here at stormtrack? Not everyone can afford to always do that when money is tight. What about the people who just want the basics in like a begginers guide or basic weather guide? Would any of this be viewable to guests interested in learning?

[Bob Hartig]

Understood, Matt. That's why I suggested a donation rather than a course fee. That way, it's strictly volunteer, and if you can't afford it, nobody judges you and it doesn't make you a bad apple.

I did have second thoughts before I suggested the idea, though. Maybe even a donation would run counter to the spirit of Stormtrack's free and generous sharing of information. But I don't think it will. We're not talking college tuition here. The idea is simply to honor instructors by putting a little extra gas in their tanks, that kinda thing.

In any event, my proposal is just a starting point in all its points. The details obviously would need to be hashed out.

[Mikey Gribble]

Here is a link to a site that has step by step guides to learning some of the fundamentals of weather and forecasting. This site is going to be better than anything we could put together on stormtrack IMO and more importantly it's already done.
http://www.theweatherprediction.com/


Here is a link to an example of a short wave trough. I remember somebody said they had never seen an example, so here it is http://weather.cod.edu/notes/goodwave.html

I went ahead and started working on the Help Pages on my website tonight. I started one on surface analysis for beginers and another one with notes on tornado forecasting for forecasters who are a little farther along with studying meteorology. The information on the tornado forecasting notes page are NOT my thoughts and ideas. They are basically notes I have taken over the years and I do my best to credit the sources. These pages were literally just started tonight, so I don't have much on there. I am also seriously considering dropping the beginer level page. There is just so much to cover that I really don't even think I could put a dent in it and I have a lot of other things on my plate right now too. For some reason I can't get the pages publised to my site right now. I think my internet connection is just too slow at the moment. As soon as I get it published though I'll post the links.

[Terry Tyler]

Does anyone know of a good college that i can go for Meteorology to work for the weather service or somthing? please email me with details!

bro...

you might start by going to something called a search engine...youll likely pull up 100,000 results for schools in meteorology...

i dont see any need to use more of STs resources to make another thread solely for weather-questions...thats what "weather-&-chasing" is for...

usually i dont see alot of weather related questions anyway, but if someone has one...i havent ever seen anyone be mean or nasty to the person whos asking it...personally, i think ST is just fine the way it is...

it aint broken, so i dont see a need to fix it...

[David Wolfson]

UCAR's COMET program was mentioned some time ago in another thread. I'd forgotten about it, but check it out -- it's quite amazing, and free!
http://www.meted.ucar.edu/index.htm
See, for example: http://www.meted.ucar.edu/dl_courses/svrconvection/index.htm

[Danny Neal]

usually i dont see alot of weather related questions anyway, but if someone has one...i havent ever seen anyone be mean or nasty to the person whos asking it...personally, i think ST is just fine the way it is...

it aint broken, so i dont see a need to fix it...

So in weather and chasing you are saying there is nothing weather related going on? Hmmmmm interesting....I really can't see adding a new section as lowering quality. Although adding a new section could be helpful, it really isn't worth all the work and labor that Tim or David would have to put in to it. I am sure if the demand is overwhelming something might be worked out, but until then weather and chasing is alright. The only thing "broken" about ST is the quality of "some" peoples posting sometimes(could be attributed to youth/inexperience, but thats point of a learning forum right?) like Pritchard mentioned in his application for ST mod. For the record I am not complaining, just pointing out something that I know a lot of people have mentioned. Overall still top of the line.

[Mikey Gribble]

I think what Terry was referring to, and I totally agree with, is that nobody is ever asking any questions about intro. level meteorology stuff in weather and chasing. If there were such a big need for some sort of education for the newer chasers, then how come there are hardly ever any questions in there? There are a million different web resources that are great. Literally all you have to do is google something and a ton of information is right there in front of you. If you don't like that approach or can't find the answer you're looking for then all you have to do is post a question in weather and chasing. You can always email virtually anybody on here and ask them for help and 90% of the people would be more than glad to help out. It's kind of like the old saying IMO, it's kind of hard to help somebody when they aren't trying to help themselves.

[Terry Tyler]

So in weather and chasing you are saying there is nothing weather related going on? Hmmmmm interesting....I really can't see adding a new section as lowering quality.

apparently you didnt read this...since you left it out of the quote tags...

i dont see any need to use more of STs resources to make another thread solely for weather-questions...thats what "weather-&-chasing" is for...

weather and chasing is for
Regular discussions about meteorology, forecasting, and chasing. No nowcasts or forecasts.

which i believe falls under the guidelines of weather related questions...i have seen several questions asked, and asked several myself...

i never said anything in that post about it lowering the quality of the forum...just that it may cost the administrators more money...if they can afford it, and want to pay...im all for it...


daniel, you talk about youth and inexperience...

The only thing "broken" about ST is the quality of "some" peoples posting sometimes(could be attributed to youth/inexperience, but thats point of a learning forum right?)

yet here you write...


Love me, thats great!
Hate me, oh well your loss, don't expect any favors out of me.

I don't need some old washed up chaser, looking down on me just because I was not the spitting image of him. He may have done it with strictly his eyes, don't be pissed at me because I have radar and listen to "heavy metal"

seems to fit into the textbook example of "youth and inexperience" though you wont find me passing judgement...

[Danny Neal]

apparently you didnt read this...since you left it out of the quote tags...



weather and chasing is for
which i believe falls under the guidelines of weather related questions...i have seen several questions asked, and asked several myself...

i never said anything in that post about it lowering the quality of the forum...just that it may cost the administrators more money...if they can afford it, and want to pay...im all for it...


daniel, you talk about youth and inexperience...



yet here you write...



seems to fit into the textbook example of "youth and inexperience" though you wont find me passing judgement...


LOL Listen ghetto fabulous.....

First of all I would appreciate full complete sentences with proper grammar when you address my posting, because that makes the quality THAT MUCH BETTER. Secondly, when I replied to that, it is by experience of older chasers looking down on me because I am 20, I already have been doing it for 10 years and they need not try to look down upon me just because I am not 40 years old and doing it the way they did it.(strictly eyes and ears and instincts) And what about what I said labels me as a youth or inexperienced? Where is the inexperience in there? If it's such a TEXTBOOK example then why am I not seeing it? Please where did you see me accusing you of lowering quality? That is something I brought up with a couple of the posting techniques that I and a couple other members have discussed. Finally I absolutely read what you said and thus I BACKED IT UP in my own post. Mr. Tyler, I suggest you please read posts through and through before you start making personal attacks. Since you obviously feel guilty and offended about what I said....

If it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck......

[Danny Neal]

im not guilty, or offended...your words mean **** to me...


if you want to talk some more...feel free to PM me...

No thanks, I think my point was already made and THROUGHLY backed up by that comment you just made. Have a nice day!! :D

[Doug Lee]

I don't think a separate section for weather questions/education is necessary. I think a few sticky threads in W&C about termionology and FAQ's would be easy for newbies to find. If there's any one thing to add to ST, it would most likely be a glossary, especially if it includes a list of abbreviations used in forecasts.

[Mikey Gribble]

I finally got my help pages published. I don't have hardly anything on there right now since I just started, but I'll add to it soon. I wanted to post the link for anybody that was interested though. There is one beginer page and one page for my forecasting notes. I plan on making a bunch of different pages, but I started with surface analysis for beginers because it seemed like a logical starting point. I might can the beginer stuff because it's just such a huge topic, but I haven't decided on that yet. I think it would be a lot easier and more effective for beginers to buy Tim's book instead. Anyways, here is the link if you're interested. FYI the tornado notes page are notes I've taken. They are not my thoughts and ideas. I tried my best to credit the authors, but I forgot the sources of some of the information so I don't have anyone credited on a couple. There isn't much on there yet, but when I do post things of my own, then I'll credit myself so it doesn't look like I'm trying to take credit for the uncredited notes. The stuff on the beginers page is all mine, just shooting from the hip (you'll probably be able to tell). Hopefully this will be helpfull for a few people after I get it done, which may take a while. I'll keep on it though.
Go down to the help pages title and the links for the two pages I've started are there. It's a waste to look at them now since there is barely anything on there, but I'll add to it soon.
http://www.loadedgunchasing.com/forecasting.html