Where do you get your plotted maps for hand analysis?

[George Tincher]

Let me start out by saying I have reviewed those on SPC's site, as well as those available from COD. I really like those provided by the SPC. But I am having a problem using them. You see, I don't have a printer compatible with the larger 11x17 size paper required to properly use those. And I am finding that I can't get a usable map (especially the sfc maps) using standard size paper. There's simply too much data and too little room in which to print it and have anything that's large enough to be practical that will fit the screen. And if it's sized where it will properly print on 11x8.5 paper, the detail (temps, dew points, pressure, etc) is too fine to read.

So how do you folks go about the task of hand analysis without using special equipment? I really hope there is some sort of working alternative besides having to go out and buy a new printer and yet another type of paper just to be able to perform this function. That would be pretty discouraging because I really want to be able to practice these skills I've been learning from Tim V's books, various websites and friends who have provided some great tips. But it just seems I am having trouble finding usable online plotted maps that are large enough to read, while being small enough to work on standard size paper.

I would even be willing to even use regional type maps if those are available as a solution, provided they are large enough in total area to display most of the relevant storm system info.

Anyone else encountered this problem? Anyone have any solutions? Or am I pretty much SOL unless I go out and buy a new laser or Ink Jet printer?

[JF Massicotte]

Hi George,

I use Digital Atmosphere from The V.

You can do whatever you want with your maps.

You can get it there: www.weathergraphics.com

Have a good season,

JF

[Patrick Marsh]

Let me start out by saying I have reviewed those on SPC's site, as well as those available from COD. I really like those provided by the SPC. But I am having a problem using them. You see, I don't have a printer compatible with the larger 11x17 size paper required to properly use those. And I am finding that I can't get a usable map (especially the sfc maps) using standard size paper. There's simply too much data and too little room in which to print it and have anything that's large enough to be practical that will fit the screen. And if it's sized where it will properly print on 11x8.5 paper, the detail (temps, dew points, pressure, etc) is too fine to read.

So how do you folks go about the task of hand analysis without using special equipment? I really hope there is some sort of working alternative besides having to go out and buy a new printer and yet another type of paper just to be able to perform this function. That would be pretty discouraging because I really want to be able to practice these skills I've been learning from Tim V's books, various websites and friends who have provided some great tips. But it just seems I am having trouble finding usable online plotted maps that are large enough to read, while being small enough to work on standard size paper.

I would even be willing to even use regional type maps if those are available as a solution, provided they are large enough in total area to display most of the relevant storm system info.

Anyone else encountered this problem? Anyone have any solutions? Or am I pretty much SOL unless I go out and buy a new laser or Ink Jet printer?
Stealing rdale's favorite line from another forum "Run gempak and make them yourself"

In all honesty, by spring, the HOOT project from OU will have maps dedicated for hand analysis. I'm a big hand analysis person (just ask my students - I'm making them do a ton) but I typically just run gempak and make my own. Since I have the scripts already written, it's a matter of implementing them on the larger site.

What kinds of maps would people be interested in contouring? If people give me a list of what they want I can start implementing them myself or have some of the undergraduates do it.

[rdale]

Stealing rdale's favorite line from another forum "Run gempak and make them yourself"

Ouch - exactly what I was thinking as I read his post :cool:

[George Tincher]

Thanks for the recommendations so far guys. I went and looked at both Digital Atmosphere and GEMPAK to try to get a feel for what they can do. Both appear to be excellent programs. That said, both will likely require a great deal of learning on my part just to be able to understand how to use all of their abilities. Hehe. But that's ok. That probably means they can do a ton of stuff.

If I were to have an interest in this GEMPAK software, how do I go about obtaining it? I assume this is software I'll have to buy, even though my Google search seemed to indicate that you could download it free from Unidata, provided you meet their guidelines for non-profit, educational use, etc.

And finally, what exactly can GEMPAK do? Is this a program that basically plots everything for you, draws the contours, frontal boundaries, etc? Or does it allow the user to manually do that stuff as well? Again, I would actually like to be able to do all the work myself if I choose (especially at first) because I truly want to master the process of hand analysis. Again, please excuse all of my questions about this software. I've just never used it and would like to know as much about it as possible before buying it, to make sure its what I really want.

BTW, thanks Patrick for mentioning the OU Hoot page. I didn't know that even existed. I took a look at some of the analysis stuff you folks have on there and it seemed pretty nice. I especially like how the surface plot is broken down into regions so that it allows you the opportunity to view a pretty good chunk of area while being able to clearly see and make out the obs. I'll keep checking back there as the year progresses to see what new goodies is added.

[Patrick Marsh]

Thanks for the kind words about the HOOT page. I'll be sure those comments get around to everyone.

As for Gempak. It is completely free and is used extensively by the SPC for almost everything that they do. The only catch is, it doesn't run on windows. It's designed for use on computers built off a *nix kernel. All of the graphics on the HOOT page are generated via Gempak. We use PERL for the text manipulation and then imagemagick for overlaying the text, logos, images together. In essence, anything done on the hoot page can be done using free software.

Now accessing the raw data is a different story... I'll let others chime in on that. I have access to an LDM from OU, so I don't have to worry about the data. :)

[rdale]

If you are a University student, or have a NOAAPORT satellite dish, the data is free. I sell a package that is for us 'outsiders' - it uses open sources, but it converts them to a format that GEMPAK can read. It's stuff you can do yourself, but I've spent years tweaking the sources and the conversion process so it may not be quick and painless...

[John Wetter]

I'm a big hand analysis person (just ask my students - I'm making them do a ton)

Ah, you're one of 'those' teachers...

J/K. I can say that I learned more about analysis of stuff doing hand plots than anything else. It's refreshing to hear someone say they want to do it.

Now, keep all those station models so they fit under a dime too. ;-)

-John

[George Tincher]

Rob, it appears I am definitely in that "outsider" category after reading all the criteria. That said, GEMPAK does sound great. I'll admit, this wasn't exactly where I was looking to go when I started this thread, but I realize that GEMPAK is simply so much more than a source of map plots. It will allow me to do a ton of other things. And I am sure there will be days when having it will save me a lot of time. So I'll likely be sending you a PM in the coming days to inquire about the software package you sell and the system requirements necessary to run it. Or if that info is readily available online, you might just pass the link on to me when you have the time, if you wish to do so.

[Tim Vasquez]

Yeah, I'm biased since I wrote it, but Digital Atmosphere is definitely the way to go for generating maps on a Windows machine. It's heavily built around hand analysis. I'll readily admit that when it comes to radar I use GRLevelX rather than my own software, but when it comes to printed surface maps, nothing else gets used but Dig Atm.

Here are some examples of hand analysis with Digital Atmosphere:
http://www.chasehotline.com/07050419.jpg
http://www.chasehotline.com/anl.jpg
http://www.chasehotline.com/may2a.jpg

Yes, that last frame is radar... I always try where possible to mesh base reflectivity with surface plots... that way I can keep extremely close tabs on boundaries.

Tim

[Paul Knightley]

Not having a printer with us when chasing, I copy the plotted obs onto a blank map of the states, and then analyse that.

[Patrick Marsh]

Ah, you're one of 'those' teachers...

J/K. I can say that I learned more about analysis of stuff doing hand plots than anything else. It's refreshing to hear someone say they want to do it.

Now, keep all those station models so they fit under a dime too. ;-)

-John
You better believe I am!

As I type, I have a couple scripts in the process of running to create several upper air and mesoanalysis (regional surface) charts from 00Z 13 May 06 for the students to analyze. Next week, I'll have the students use Gempak to examine the 00Z model initialization and compare that to their hand analysis.

My students hate me... :)

[rdale]

Or if that info is readily available online, you might just pass the link on to me when you have the time, if you wish to do so.

Some basic info is online at http://skywatch.org -- I'm going through a revamp of the website though, so everything may not be in place...

[Gene Moore]

Yeah, I'm biased since I wrote it, but Digital Atmosphere......
Here are some examples of hand analysis with Digital Atmosphere:
http://www.chasehotline.com/07050419.jpg
http://www.chasehotline.com/anl.jpg
A shameless plug for Tim. If you're not compelled to use a specific product (as for some students) Digital Atmosphere is the way to go for a Windows based notebook. I still use the older DA2000 as opposed to the newer version, like it better. In some ways it's old school, but unfortunately the new computer generated surface graphics (we find online) do not have the resolution to equal this. Most importantly they don't have the intuitive skill to set the difficult boundaries, like morning outflow boundaries. Remember in chasing your target is storm scale, that is something smaller than 20 miles in diameter. Pretty colors and online graphics likely won't take you to that level of detail.

[Andrea Griffa]

A shameless plug for Tim. If you're not compelled to use a specific product (as for some students) Digital Atmosphere is the way to go for a Windows based notebook. I still use the older DA2000 as opposed to the newer version, like it better. In some ways it's old school, but unfortunately the new computer generated surface graphics (we find online) do not have the resolution to equal this. Most importantly they don't have the intuitive skill to set the difficult boundaries, like morning outflow boundaries. Remember in chasing your target is storm scale, that is something smaller than 20 miles in diameter. Pretty colors and online graphics likely won't take you to that level of detail.

Gene those are words of wisdom but on the other hand there's an high utility in those Dig Atm maps: there are situations, especially before convection, where the radar can't display any kind of boundary(both at macro and microscale);it's not rare that in these cases unfortunately it happens that the main models don't agree about the position of the dry line or triple point or whatever you want. Here is the importance of those Dig Atm maps: to have a real time position of the fronts and compare with models forecast;in this way if the model is making a mistake you can amend before it is too late.

[Patrick Marsh]

...In some ways it's old school, but unfortunately the new computer generated surface graphics (we find online) do not have the resolution to equal this...Pretty colors and online graphics likely won't take you to that level of detail.
I hope you aren't including gempak in this "computer generated surface graphics". I guarantee you that I can create a detailed an image in gempak that is as detailed as a DA. (Un-analyzed) No offense to Tim or his hard work with DA, but for generating surface plots for contouring, gempak can be just as good.

The benefit to DA is that it can run on a PC, whereas gempak uses a *nix kernel.

Here are some gempak example images:

http://weather.ou.edu/~pmarsh/METR2021/HAND%20ANALYSIS/

I can make these bigger, smaller, more detailed, less detailed, etc

[Andrea Griffa]

I hope you aren't including gempak in this "computer generated surface graphics". I guarantee you that I can create a detailed an image in gempak that is as detailed as a DA. (Un-analyzed) No offense to Tim or his hard work with DA, but for generating surface plots for contouring, gempak can be just as good.

The benefit to DA is that it can run on a PC, whereas gempak uses a *nix kernel.

Here are some gempak example images:

http://weather.ou.edu/~pmarsh/METR2021/HAND%20ANALYSIS/

I can make these bigger, smaller, more detailed, less detailed, etc

I can't see the page that you linked(forbidden)

[Patrick Marsh]

Thanks for letting me know about the link. Last night after the lab I teach, I changed my directory's file permissions and disabled all permissions for all users but me. I totally forgot I had this link up. I've fixed that issue now.

Again, sorry for that...

[rdale]

Tweaked my GEMPAK page and linked more example, also I'll have a version that will run within Windows by Feb.

http://skywatch.org

[Bill Schintler]

****Upper-air****:

SPC:
Scroll down to "Unanalyzed maps (.pdf format)
http://www.spc.noaa.gov/obswx/maps/

I still print those out on 8-1/2 by 11, but it is getting to the point where the data is becoming increasingly difficult to read with the small lettering. New charts are usually available by 1:30Z and 13:30Z. I print the 850, 700, and 500 charts twice a day and analyze them; starting with isopleths at 30m, 30m, and 60m intervals; respectively.

850 chart: Note moisture and temperature features; and other key features such as troughs.

700 chart: Plot isotherms at 5C intervals and features such as short wave axis and speed maximums.

500 chart: Note trough and ridge axis, shortwave axis, and isotachs.

I then compare each chart with the -12 hr chart (and sometimes -24 hr), and note where height falls/rises are concentrated. Temperature and moisture advection trends are also important for 850 and 700mb charts.

With practice, I've gotten to the point where I can do each UA chart in about five minutes. I make this a part of my daily routine, regardless of whether or not any active WX is underway, often while on break.

****Surface****:

Various sources, including COD (increasingly unreliable in recent years), UCAR, SPC (mesoanalysis), and Digital Atmosphere.

COD (select "Image Plot (http://weather.cod.edu/wx/public/sfc/states/ks.sfc.gif)" for the state of interest):
http://weather.cod.edu/analysis/analysis.states.html

UCAR regional plots:
http://www.rap.ucar.edu/weather/surface/

SPC mesoanalysis"
http://www.spc.noaa.gov/exper/mesoanalysis/

Digital Atmosphere:
http://www.weathergraphics.com/da/

- bill

[John Hudson]

Just wanted to jump in on this one and make an inquiry. Gempak runs on -nix kernel systems, and I've got my laptop set up to dual-boot XP or Ubuntu. This means I can use the Gempak on my machine?

Not to worry, Tim. I'll be getting DA, too. Not just as an alternative, but I believe in supporting our own, whenever possible. Great job on the Map Handbook, by the way. Just got my copy before Christmas, and enjoying it throroughly.

John

[rdale]

Yes you can dual-boot and run GEMPAK.

What I've got coming next month is a version that will run within VMWare's free player, so you can have both Windows & Linux running at the same time.

[John Hudson]

Sounds like a great app, thanks a lot!

I'll be looking forward to it.


John

[Gene Moore]

I hope you aren't including gempak in this "computer generated surface graphics". I guarantee you that I can create a detailed an image in gempak that is as detailed as a DA. (Un-analyzed) No offense to Tim or his hard work with DA, but for generating surface plots for contouring, gempak can be just as good.
My comment was aimed at a number of online surface maps, COD, NCAR etc. I think DA's got them beat. Of course that's personal preference. In my Digital Atmosphere I have the station plots and contouring set up the way I like it...I tend to like less smoothing and tight altimeter plots. Also, I'm not going to do a total hand analysis (pressure) while driving down the highway. Because of where I live much of my chasing is done alone. So I let the program run with my settings while I drive. As for Gempak, it's great but I want to run my analysis on my laptop. My concept of chasing is far from the norm today, the less equipment the less distractions the better.

[rdale]

If you are a 'hard core' user, you'll want a dedicated box and/or dual-boot. And you don't need high-end equipment, so literally $300 or less will get you the hardware.

The Windows VMWare version is more for laptop users, something basic to get you going while mobile (I use it when in high-speed Verizon areas) because running Windows + Linux + all the memory that GEMPAK data files use can really slow you down.

[George Tincher]

Wow. What a great discussion this has turned out to be. It looks like both GEMPAK and DA have a great deal to offer and that you can't really go wrong with either. I may end up doing what I ultimately do in situations in which I can't make a decision between two similar yet different products......GET BOTH! LOL.

[Gene Moore]

Wow. What a great discussion this has turned out to be. It looks like both GEMPAK and DA have a great deal to offer and that you can't really go wrong with either. I may end up doing what I ultimately do in situations in which I can't make a decision between two similar yet different products......GET BOTH! LOL.
I think if you go to the trouble to set up GEMPACK for the road you'll not want to bother with DA. I haven't checked Tim's software site recently, but he did have a download trial (30 days?) for Digital Atmosphere. This would be a good time to try it out. In fact if the models are correct you'll get a good storm event to see how you like it.

Also, there are likely quite a few surface stations that have been added since the program was written. If you do decide to use it you'll need to upgrade those sites before spring to get good station density. Tim used to have directions on his site about how to get into the script to do that.

[George Tincher]

Thanks, Gene. Good advice. Whatever I end up going with will be added to my home PC, rather than a notebook. And it is Windows based. I'll be doing most of my analysis here at home. So if I were to opt for GEMPAK, I'd need to wait on Rob's February update. It seems I am good to go as is for Digital Atmosphere.

As a temporary solution, until I figure out exactly what program I want to purchase, I have elected to start using the COD unanalyzed maps. But to avoid the heavy clutter of those maps, I traced out some master copies of their regional storm chasing versions. I just added each station (empty circles) and left everything else blank. I have access to a terrific copier, so I will print out a bunch of these blank maps on regular 8.5x11 paper. Being they are exact duplicates of the COD maps in terms of size and stations, I can use them to overlay on my flat panel screen and match up data to the proper stations. I will then fill in the data (i.e. wind shafts/barbs, temperature, dewpoint, pressure, cloud cover, etc on sfc maps) using fine point color pens. I can write down the obs much smaller than they are shown in the originals. That way the map will be nice, neat and highly readable, rather than cluttered like they are originally. The upper air maps will be easier to deal with as they are. So that's a plus. Yes, that will create a little extra work on my part. But that's ok. Until I get a better solution in place, it's the only way I have been able to create working maps that are large enough to be beneficial yet small enough to complete on standard size paper. It's not ideal, but it will work for now until I get something better.

Thanks again to all who have replied and assisted me in my search for a better mouse trap. Hopefully this thread has also been helpful for others interested in hand analysis and looking for the tools to help generate your own plotted maps.