Recent video of double wedge tornadoes? where and when?

[Kevin Statler]

Hey guys..

I was wondering if anyone knows this video im trying to locate. It was a longggg time ago,probly like 10 years ago that i saw this footage on tv. 2 large wedge tornadoes crossing a road. It wasnt the 1965 obviously since that was just a photo,i cant recall what program this was on or where it was at,but any help would be appreciated..

thank you!

[Tony Lyza]

Stuart IA, 5/27/95. I can't find anything online, but I know it's on TVC III.

[Kevin Statler]

sweet man,thanks..im thinking of buying that classic volume series..cant seem to find any storm chase accounts of this day online..

[Chris Vagasky]

Here's one video I found of the Stuart, IA tornado...just a single wedge in this one:

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/ever-body-git-under-sumpin/1362572377

[fplowman]

He moved too fast on that one. Looks like it was close but they weren't taking a direct hit. Should have stayed put and got more cool footage IMO... lol

It does shake your nerves though to be that close.

[Kevin Statler]

Yeah,thats good video. Wish i could find video of that double wedge though,for some reason i was thinking it was Indiana..

[Danny Neal]

Yeah,thats good video. Wish i could find video of that double wedge though,for some reason i was thinking it was Indiana..

Indiana pops in mind because of the Palm Sunday Outbreak in 65 as you noted it wasn't what you had in mind. Stuart, IA is what popped into my mind immediately. I think it was on one of the Twisters 2: Terror in the Heartland Videos.

[Bob Hartig]

Whichever of the TVC volumes showed the clip Chris Vagasky supplied the link to above, also shows the twin wedges. Not sure whether that's vol. 2 or 3. I'd check, but my old VHS player no longer works, and I no longer have the tapes anyway. :( BTW, I've always loved that farmer's video. "Whoa, major footage!" No doubt. You can really hear the roar.

[Mike Smith]

You may be thinking of the famous Goshen, IN tornado photo from the Palm Sunday Outbreak of 1965. The image is here: www.islandnet.com/~see/weather/events/1965palmsun_torn2.htm

[Gene Moore]

You may be thinking of the famous Goshen, IN tornado photo from the Palm Sunday Outbreak of 1965. The image is here: www.islandnet.com/~see/weather/events/1965palmsun_torn2.htm (http://www.islandnet.com/%7Esee/weather/events/1965palmsun_torn2.htm)
If you look above the funnels there is one solid circulation that includes these two large funnels. l believe these are two (very large) multi-vortices imbedded in one larger tornadic circulation, rotating about a common center. I've seen other images of this set and as I remember the circulation joined after going a bit north. Remember, this image was done before Fujita's suction spot/ multi-vortex paper on the LBB tornado.

The famous Wichita Falls tornado of 1979 did the same thing as it was leaving the NE side of town. It produced widely spaced vortices that were like large individual tornadoes, but with clear air in between.

[Kevin Statler]

You may be thinking of the famous Goshen, IN tornado photo from the Palm Sunday Outbreak of 1965. The image is here: www.islandnet.com/~see/weather/events/1965palmsun_torn2.htm (http://www.islandnet.com/%7Esee/weather/events/1965palmsun_torn2.htm)

No,i mean i know that happened then,but this was a recent actual video i saw,i'll check out TVC 3..

[Charles Kuster]

If you look above the funnels there is one solid circulation that includes these two large funnels. l believe these are two (very large) multi-vortices imbedded in one larger tornadic circulation, rotating about a common center. I've seen other images of this set and as I remember the circulation joined after going a bit north. Remember, this image was done before Fujita's suction spot/ multi-vortex paper on the LBB tornado.

The famous Wichita Falls tornado of 1979 did the same thing as it was leaving the NE side of town. It produced widely spaced vortices that were like large individual tornadoes, but with clear air in between.

I agree with you that the double wedge in Indiana was actually two large vortices rotating around a common center. This leads me to a question about the "clear air" in between the large vortices. Does anyone know what kind of damage if any occurred in between the multiple vortices. I know that smaller multiple vortices cause extreme damage and are often associated with the phenomenon of one house being destroyed and the adjacent house left standing. However, there is at least minor damage to the neighboring homes. Technically the "clear air" section is within the tornadic circulation so I would think that there is a least minor damage despite the fact that one of these large vortices did not pass directly overhead. Any thoughts? Thanks and stay safe!

[mike scantlin]

I'm not sure I have ever seen 2 multi-vortex tornadoes behave exactly the same. But in the hypothetical situation of 2 vorticies(sp?) rotating uniformly around a common center, I would say that significant damage occurs between them. There can be damage outside of the actual condensation funnel, from either inflow jets, or larger debris being tossed around. Also, if the parent circulation is moving to the NE, and the two sub-circulations are rotating rapidly around each other, there would be no real "in between." I'm having trouble putting my thoughts into words, so what better way to illustrate my thoughts than with MS Paint!!! give me a few minutes...

http://i27.tinypic.com/242v67t.jpg

[mike scantlin]

so the drawing is crappy, but you get my point that there is no in between.

[Gene Moore]

I agree with you that the double wedge in Indiana was actually two large vortices rotating around a common center. This leads me to a question about the "clear air" in between the large vortices. Does anyone know what kind of damage if any occurred in between the multiple vortices. I know that smaller multiple vortices cause extreme damage and are often associated with the phenomenon of one house being destroyed and the adjacent house left standing. However, there is at least minor damage to the neighboring homes. Technically the "clear air" section is within the tornadic circulation so I would think that there is a least minor damage despite the fact that one of these large vortices did not pass directly overhead.
Over the years I've read quite a few papers on this, but I haven't seen anything specifically addressing your concerns (anyone else?) Also I did a tech-memo paper on wind speeds of tornadoes back decades ago. There are two speeds to consider, first the parent circulation and second the speed within the sub-votices, which is higher. Much of the time the parent circulation or tornadic circulation rotates at the translational velocity of the suction vortices, or suction spots. To get wind speeds trackable debris within that system is going to go through both acceleration and deceleration within the suction vortices.....making accurate measurement almost impossible. When we did debris tracking on the 1979 Orienta OK tornado we were able to track some (solid) objects, sheet metal etc, even through there were suction vortices. I would imagine tracing an object through the Indiana vortex would be impossible. I'm not sure if the portable Doppler measurements can discriminate between main circulation and suction vortices when it tracks....anyone know? Lastly, I've seen objects "fall out" of the side of a suction vortex on the inner part of the circulation. That would imply at least in that situation the winds dropped off drastically somewhere between the two vortices (likely some convergence causing this).

[Doug Lee]

I remember seeing some aerial photographs of tornado tracks similar to the pattern in Mike's post. IIRC, they were in Grazulis's The Tornoado: Nature's Ultimate Windstorm. I"m not sure if the pics are online, but if I can find them, I'll either post them or a link to them.

[Glen Romine]

I'm not sure if the portable Doppler measurements can discriminate between main circulation and suction vortices when it tracks....anyone know?

Some of the DOW observations I think have shown this, and probably others. DOW observations of the Mulhall tornado from May 3 1999 was described by Lee and Wurman (2005) captured suction vortices, although they were not well resolved. Would not be surprised if there are other similar observations, but you probably need a very big tornado (like Mulhall) to have much hope, and preferably a radar with a very fine beamwidth.

[Gene Moore]

Some of the DOW observations I think have shown this, and probably others. DOW observations of the Mulhall tornado from May 3 1999 was described by Lee and Wurman (2005) captured suction vortices, although they were not well resolved. Would not be surprised if there are other similar observations, but you probably need a very big tornado (like Mulhall) to have much hope, and preferably a radar with a very fine beamwidth.
First: Sorry to have contributed in taking this thread off topic, we should have moved it.

At Mulhall they were 4 KM away, but the suction spots were large. Josh Wurman told me they can measure one about 50 meters across within 1 KM range. He said Great Bend yielded data in 2007 which I think is not yet published. I need to catch up on this subject, these days I tend to only read stuff that helps my forecasting.

Also, I was on Mulhall (north of OKC) until the police told me to cease and desist my actions and leave the area. I was setting up a tripod. So I didn't see it in its later life cycle.