SpotterNetwork reports

[cedwards]

I know I can't be the only person annoyed by some of the reports coming through on the Spotter Network. I have seen an increasing number of reports with no detail.

There are a lot that just say "Hail". No size or other details. Is this falling now? did you just come up to it laying on the ground?

Some reports of tornado or wall cloud with no details. Is that tornado it your location exactly? What direction are you looking? About how far away? If several people are looking at a tornado from different directions, it may look like several tornado reports in several locations.

[Dann Cianca]

I've noticed a lot of tornado reports from spotter network that either don't show up on the SPC map or do so at a much later time. Are people forgetting to call in their reports? I would think (hope) that alerting the NWS/local emergency officials of a tornado would be high priority upon spotting.

[Shane Adams]

I called in the tornado report as soon as the tornado dissipated, gave my location, the tornado's location, and the time. No problems.

Later in the day, Mick received a call from the NWS because they'd been monitoring spotternetwork.org and saw we were near-ground zero to Breckenridge...we were in town at the time, dodging debris as we tried to get turned around. Mick was able to give them detailed damage reports of what we were seeing, and at the time they didn't know for sure if it was a tornado. They asked Mick's opinion and he said it definitely looked like tornado damage.

So all in all, at least for us, the spotter network worked great yesterday.

[Mickey Ptak]

I called in the tornado report as soon as the tornado dissipated, gave my location, the tornado's location, and the time. No problems.

Later in the day, Mick received a call from the NWS because they'd been monitoring spotternetwork.org and saw we were near-ground zero to Breckenridge...we were in town at the time, dodging debris as we tried to get turned around. Mick was able to give them detailed damage reports of what we were seeing, and at the time they didn't know for sure if it was a tornado. They asked Mick's opinion and he said it definitely looked like tornado damage.

So all in all, at least for us, the spotter network worked great yesterday.

Just a quick correct. It was CNN that called me about the Breckenridge damage not the NWS. However, I did receive a call from the NWS when we were shooting the first tornado along I-20 at Tye, TX. I missed that call, however, and could not get a hold of them again but Shane called it in after words. I assume they both got my number off the spotter network.

As far as the spotter network reports I can see your point and have done it myself but that is mainly with hail reports as it asks you what size the hail is. If there are other details, I have tried (the few times I have reported via SN) to be as detailed as possible. I didn't report the tornadoes we saw yesterday via spotter network because 1.) It was just easier to call in considering Shane was already doing it 2.) very crappy connects in that part of TX.

Mick

[Dann Cianca]

I called in the tornado report as soon as the tornado dissipated, gave my location, the tornado's location, and the time. No problems.

Later in the day, Mick received a call from the NWS because they'd been monitoring spotternetwork.org and saw we were near-ground zero to Breckenridge...we were in town at the time, dodging debris as we tried to get turned around. Mick was able to give them detailed damage reports of what we were seeing, and at the time they didn't know for sure if it was a tornado. They asked Mick's opinion and he said it definitely looked like tornado damage.

So all in all, at least for us, the spotter network worked great yesterday.

Yeah, yesterday seemed pretty good. I just remember a couple recent days (3/02 , 3/30) where there were lots of reports on here and on spotter network that either never showed up or showed up really late.

[Joey Ketcham]

I've seen these reports too that were lacking in detail, so you're not the only one who has noticed it.

[David Schuttler]

I thought that was a no-no for the media to use the SN for contacting users.

[Mickey Ptak]

I thought that was a no-no for the media to use the SN for contacting users.

I don't know. Can you stop them though? Strange thing is the number was a OK number (405).

Mick

[Chad Cowan]

I saw a SN report last week of "Multiple deadly cloud to ground lightning flashes in ___ (city)"

Back on October 18th when I was chasing with Adam Lucio and Matt Fischer we submitted a SN report of damage in Nappanee, IN and got a call from CNN within about 10 minutes asking what we saw and if we had video.

[Joey Ketcham]

I thought that was a no-no for the media to use the SN for contacting users.

I've not heard of that. It's public info though really, if spotters and chasers are going to put their contact info out there where it can be accessed by the public, I don't see how it would be anymore different than the media contacting the home of a corrupted Mayor trying to get comments. It's not regulated by the FCC or anything.

[rdale]

I thought that was a no-no for the media to use the SN for contacting users.

It's okay if they are financially supporting the network...

http://www.allisonhouse.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1429

It's not okay if they aren't...

if spotters and chasers are going to put their contact info out there where it can be accessed by the public

If the spotters / chasers were putting the info on their server - that would be the case. But they are using a service that costs AH money, so either help him with the costs or only use it for yourself / NWS / EM.

[Bill Tabor]

Question: Is Spotternetwork the only such network that the NWS has? Is it officially sanctioned? Seems this is definite good functionality for the NWS and sounds like they do use it some. If it's not officially sanctioned / sponsored by the NWS then perhaps it should.

On another note..I logged in for the first time to Spotternetwork yesterday. I had just installed it. On I20 headed west to Abilene I had a solid cell connect but couldn't get it to work. Later I finally got a connection after most of the action Mineral Wells. I had no cell data almost the whole time. It kept telling me no Id or something like that. Eventually I went to the site and saw that it gives you a Spotter Id in addition to the handle you use. After that it worked in the brief times I had a connect. I had my cell phone set private. Not sure what I should set it to. I don't mind others necessarily seeing it as long as they aren't breaking my data connection calling me. Currently I am just tethering without an aircard.

[rdale]

It's not a NWS network, it's something they look at though with GR2AE.

It has nothing to do with your cellphone - it is something you broadcast to SN via the Internet and they they redistribute.

[Mickey Ptak]

If the spotters / chasers were putting the info on their server - that would be the case. But they are using a service that costs AH money, so either help him with the costs or only use it for yourself / NWS / EM.

Perhaps, AH should only make the phone numbers visible to only special accounts such as:

1.) "NWS Account" those people that have direct relationships with the NWS offices.

2.) "Media Account" - Accounts paid for by the media to view the SN. On top of that though, perhaps some of us may not want to be contacted by the media while in the field. Maybe have the option to keep our numbers private from "media accounts".

If they do not have these accounts they can not view contact information for spotters or chasers.

There is just no way AH can stop it if something like that is not put into place. It is not the chasers or spotters responsibly to ask / prove that the media outfit contacting them has paid AH for using it's services thus contacting us. It’s just not going to happen because most of us do not have time for that while chasing.

Mick

[J Kinkaid]

This has got to be the worst report ever . Check out Nashville, TN Desc Huge Gust

[David Poch]

Speaking of wacky reports with no detail check out the one near Nashville Tn right now...

[David Drummond]

Seriously though, is what is happening really any different than some of the audio reports you often hear over SKYWARN nets?

[David Schuttler]

Or the "Now Thread" here sometimes :D

[Joey Ketcham]

Seriously though, is what is happening really any different than some of the audio reports you often hear over SKYWARN nets?

It's no different really. I don't know though, when I think of people who uses SpotterNetwork making those reports I think of the experienced storm chasers like the very ones who uses this forum, the ones I would expect to submit better and more detailed reports. The types of reports I see submitted over SpotterNetwork, like "lots of rain" are the reports I expect to hear over local spotter nets..

[J Kinkaid]

I thought that I had seen it all but somebody just reported very dark clouds KDMX radar

Should there be some kind of banning or suspension for posting stuff like this ?

[Mike Parker]

This has got to be the worst report ever . Check out Nashville, TN Desc Huge Gust


Actually, I believe the report that is NE of Kansas City right now may be the worst ever......"Very Dark Clouds".

Come on! Give me a break.

[al pietrycha]

I know I can't be the only person annoyed by some of the reports coming through on the Spotter Network. I have seen an increasing number of reports with no detail.

There are a lot that just say "Hail". No size or other details. Is this falling now? did you just come up to it laying on the ground?



Charles,

Unless the SN participant writes a remark in the comments section of the report, you won’t see a hail size (wind speed), or whether the hail size (wind speed) was measured or estimated. However, if you are at a WFO that is set up to automatically receive SN reports (most Central Region offices, and three Southern Region offices), they will see the above mentioned quantification included in your report.

--Al

[Michael Stanga]

Actually, I believe the report that is NE of Kansas City right now may be the worst ever......"Very Dark Clouds".

Come on! Give me a break.

I was going to add that to this thread, but you beat me to it. rediculous "report".

[Tyler Allison]

Wow! So much to respond to


I've noticed a lot of tornado reports from spotter network that either don't show up on the SPC map or do so at a much later time.

It's up the NWS to decide if something is worth an LSR


I've seen these reports too that were lacking in detail, so you're not the only one who has noticed it.

I'll be sending out my yearly "don't send in stupid reports" email in the next day or two. That's about all I can do.


I thought that was a no-no for the media to use the SN for contacting users.


I'm in the process of changing how things are displayed and to whom. It is currently against the ToS for them to do that...but like others have said I can't stop them. In the near future they won't be able to see numbers unless they pay for them, thus allowing me to make the system better for you.


Is Spotternetwork the only such network that the NWS has?

Other than local SKYWARN nets its the only one I know they actually watch.

Is it officially sanctioned?

No. And it never could be due to government regulations about doing such things.


Should there be some kind of banning or suspension for posting stuff like this ?

That thought has crossed my mind but how can that be done fairly?


Unless the SN participant writes a remark in the comments section of the report, you won’t see a hail size (wind speed), or whether the hail size (wind speed) was measured or estimated.

This type of info should show up on all the feeds except for the Google maps quick look feed at the bottom of the National Activity map (simply due to screen space). If it is not showing up on the GR/SL4 feeds it's a bug and I'll fix it.

[Tyler Allison]

Oh yeah...if you havent been over to your account lately.....go over and play with the open beta of the 'premium' options.

I've implemented (or in the process of implementing) some of the privacy items folks have asked for above.

Any bug reports or feature ideas can be posted over on http://www.allisonhouse.com/forum/

-Tyler

[rdale]

That thought has crossed my mind but how can that be done fairly?

Maybe set up a group of a few of your trusted SN reporters, and have them 'evaluate' reports? Shouldn't be too hard to do if you have a list in front of you. The one that reported dark clouds also reported lightning in another spot. That's getting pretty obvious.

This type of info should show up on all the feeds except for the Google maps quick look feed at the bottom of the National Activity map (simply due to screen space). If it is not showing up on the GR/SL4 feeds it's a bug and I'll fix it.

It's just showing the SN icon for all reports, and no sizes unless in the remarks on GR.

[al pietrycha]

Maybe set up a group of a few of your trusted SN reporters, and have them 'evaluate' reports? Shouldn't be too hard to do if you have a list in front of you. The one that reported dark clouds also reported lightning in another spot. That's getting pretty obvious.


That's already being done and has been since day one. That's where I come in, as I have to answer for bad reporting and QC issues. :-)

--Al

[Van DeWald]

Tyler,

Right now, in the Spotter Network GR overlay, you don't see a hail size with the reports (unless the user has typed that info in the narrative). Could you adjust your script so the hail size does show up on the GR overlay when they don't type the details in the narrative section? It might also be helpful to have the username who submitted the report in the GR Overlay to help filter bad reports.

Thanks,
Van

[Chris Sokol]

Actually, I believe the report that is NE of Kansas City right now may be the worst ever......"Very Dark Clouds".

Come on! Give me a break.

Followed by another report from the same person a few minutes later..."lightning". :eek:

[Michael Stanga]

Followed by another report from the same person a few minutes later..."lightning". :eek:

Ive never been too much a fan of policing things but maybe there needs to be an admin warning. I have a feeling should these "reports" continue perhaps the NWS will lose respect for spotternetwork. Seeing as that spotternetwork is top of the line for mobile reporting, I would hate to see it fall at the hands of a few "bad individuals"

[Tyler Allison]

Ive never been too much a fan of policing things but maybe there needs to be an admin warning.

Al will be taking on that role. As the NWS rep he can play bad cop and I can stay good cop :)

[Shane Adams]

Actually I've come to embrace the ridiculous things I hear over the scanner from "trained" spotters. At the end of a long chase, sometimes it feels like I should be paying for that level of entertainment. My favorite thing is when they try to be all scientific with the reporting, and they jumble a bunch of buzzwords into something so silly it makes you laugh out loud.

God bless 'em, they're trying.

[Johnathan Brouwer]

AH is providing a great service to all with the SN. Let's keep it the way it is. The bigger picture is that it provides a service to the public via the NWS. This is the most important thing to remember. It's an efficient and reliable way to get timely info. to who needs it the most. The more they (the NWS offices) use it, the better. You can always choose not to have info. published in your SN profile.

I would assume that if you are a experienced chaser, you would have the NWS numbers to call in reports the old fashioned way. I would also assume that it works the other way, that the offices wil see the name and/or callsign and have a idea who it is and have the spotters number and be able to call them for a sitrep also. I much prefer to report over the phone, as its faster and you actually speak with a human. I have many personal contacts at a number of offices that I can call my reports directly to and I hope that others have them too.

Don't get me wrong, I love SN, but I guess what I am saying is: If you don't know the number, don't answer it, and consider not publishing the data on your profile. The few bad reports come from inexperience, maybe a few emails with a correcting direction will solve that. The few phone calls from news organizations and such is the result of them just trying to get the scoop on their competitors and spread the news first. I don't really see a problem with them using the service nor calling us chasers. I do think tho that if TA has any direct contacts or exact proof of these types of calls,
that he should get the contact info. and contact them back an explain the situation to them and get them to pony up something to assist him in providing this service. This could also be a great marketing opportunity to get the SN service out to all major news organizations...

[Mike Parker]

IMO, the bottom line is that most of us really respect SN. It is one of the greatest things to be able to overlay chasers positions on a radar program and be able to see their relation to a particular storm. I have come to rely on SN for that purpose over the reporting aspect of it. I am not saying that reports aren't useful. Mike Shively did an excellent job of reporting to SN today. His reports were precise, informative and reliable. I have no doubt that he also reported to the proper NWS office as well. I personally appreciated it because I was able to see in near real time the results of the storm he was on. However, reading the reports as they come in is not why I have SN on my radar program. I use it for location purposes of fellow chasers.

I am not a member of SN so I am not aware of the sign up process but it seems clear to me that a simple explanation of some basic "rules" of reporting when they sign up would clear up some of the stupid and meaningless reports. I swear, I am still laughing about that "very dark clouds" report. Anyway, I am grateful to Tyler for being able to use SN. Having to read stupid reports like that doesn't really diminish the quality of the product, in fact, it adds a little humor sometimes.

[David Drummond]

Just a suggestion I noted the last time I tried to make a report. The windows it loaded took forever to load on a 1xRTT connection. That is the primary reason I currently do NOT make reports over it. Maybe it could be lightened up some for the slow cell data areas?

[Jeff Snyder]

Just a suggestion I noted the last time I tried to make a report. The windows it loaded took forever to load on a 1xRTT connection. That is the primary reason I currently do NOT make reports over it. Maybe it could be lightened up some for the slow cell data areas?

I'd 2nd this. Actually, the "best" option would be to include the reporting procedure in the GUI itself. In other words, make the reporting a part of the program so that it does not need to load a webpage (which has plenty of graphics, HTML code, etc).

I also 2nd the desire to include hail size (estimated wind speed) in the GRx placefile for hail (wind) reports. Seeing a report of "hail" in the GRx placefile isn't particularly helpful by itself; including the size of the hail would make it much, much more useful. Just my 2 cents.

[Tyler Allison]

Just a suggestion I noted the last time I tried to make a report. The windows it loaded took forever to load on a 1xRTT connection. That is the primary reason I currently do NOT make reports over it. Maybe it could be lightened up some for the slow cell data areas?

I hope to have a new version of the SN client out soon (Im working with a new developer) and I'll make the 'submit report' option go to a bare bones page...text only as thin as I can get it :)

-Tyler

[Tyler Allison]

I'd 2nd this. Actually, the "best" option would be to include the reporting procedure in the GUI itself. In other words, make the reporting a part of the program so that it does not need to load a webpage (which has plenty of graphics, HTML code, etc).


That's coming in the version after this next one. Requires more changes to the GUI than just some bug fixing.


I also 2nd the desire to include hail size (estimated wind speed) in the GRx placefile for hail (wind) reports. Seeing a report of "hail" in the GRx placefile isn't particularly helpful by itself; including the size of the hail would make it much, much more useful. Just my 2 cents.


Should be fixed here in a minute.

-Tyler

[al pietrycha]

Hello,

I’m writing to briefly explain some of benefits from SN reports, and what happens to your report after hitting the ‘Send in Report’ button. Note, the following url contains a map depicting which WFOs (shaded red) directly receive your reports. Although not completely depicted, LOX, AMA, OUN and SJT are also included for direct reporting (translation = your report arrives in-house along with an audible and visual alarm upon arrival). If not shaded, the office does not see your report unless someone is monitoring the SN Google Maps interface, or some other third party software.

http://www.stormeyes.org/pietrycha/tmp/cwa3.gif

The following bullets were taken from a talk I give outlining the SN.

-Target user → storm chasers / mobile spotters.

-Highly accurate position reporting.

-Chasers → A fantastic resource for real-time severe reporting, and yet, often under utilized due to the lack of an effective communication bridge between the mobile spotter / chaser and the NWS, particularly in NWS county warning areas containing low population densities. The SN helps greatly to fill the communication gap.

-Ability to monitor chasers / mobile spotters through various third-party software.

-Ability to have rapid, real-time information to assist the warning decision process.

-Ability to quickly and easily receive reports across a large domain without the need for additional manpower that is normally needed to solicit reports - a passive process.

-Mitigates information from becoming lost or misinterpreted in the verbal translation of a report.

-The appropriate participating NWS phone number is provided to the chaser when they attempt to submit a report.

-Immediate confirmation is provided to the chaser/spotter that the report reached the SN and NWS (ESpotter success/failed, SN worked/failed).

-**It takes less than 60 seconds for a report to arrive into a WFO. Often under 15 seconds**

-Spotter contact information (phone and/or email address) is included (optional) within the narrative of the report so the NWS forecaster can quickly and directly contact the spotter should a question exist requiring additional information.

-Within the narrative, the spotter’s SN identifier is included in the report.

-The report is explicit in differentiating between the spotter and the event; the spotter is located at… or the event is located at… This feature added to help minimize confusion that can arise at a NWSFO (e.g., “Is the tornado 2 miles north of town X, or is the spotter 2 miles north of town X?”). – Note to trigger “the event is located at” feature, you need to move the balloon to the appropriate location on the Google map.

I hope this helped clear up some questions.

--Al

[Scott Bell]

I was impressed yesterday with how effective Spotter Network is. We were situated on a good east-west road, shifting back and forth to watch the freight train of storms streaming through north central Missouri, and the phone rings. NWS is asking what we see on a particular storm that's running past us at that moment. This is the second time I've seen/heard of this happening this year. That's a tremendous service/way of linking various spotters and chasers on the ground to those that are responsible for getting warnings out to the public.

Sure there's some noise from people that don't understand what the tool is designed for. We can work to get that fixed, but I wouldn't change the software too much. It's simple to use and works very well for what it was designed for.

Great software Tyler!

[Tyler Allison]

I was impressed yesterday with how effective Spotter Network is. We were situated on a good east-west road, shifting back and forth to watch the freight train of storms streaming through north central Missouri, and the phone rings. NWS is asking what we see on a particular storm that's running past us at that moment. This is the second time I've seen/heard of this happening this year. That's a tremendous service/way of linking various spotters and chasers on the ground to those that are responsible for getting warnings out to the public.

Hot damn! That's exactly what it was suppose to allow.

[Tim Stoecklein]

and the phone rings. NWS is asking what we see on a particular storm that's running past us at that moment.

Great software Tyler!

I'm glad to hear it's being used more and more as this type of tool. I've had experiences with Topeka and Pueblo NWS offices initiating contact for a visual. Our NWS guru from Pueblo made special mention of SN during the spotter training for our Skywarn group here, and I had nothing but encouraging comments about the program. I echo the thanks to you Tyler, it's a great tool!

[Tyler Allison]

Just a suggestion I noted the last time I tried to make a report. The windows it loaded took forever to load on a 1xRTT connection. That is the primary reason I currently do NOT make reports over it. Maybe it could be lightened up some for the slow cell data areas?

Try now David. If you click on the 'Send Report' button on the SN client it will take you to a _VERY_ slimmed down version of the report system. It's the smallest I can make it.

There is a link you can click in the middle of the page to take you to the old 'high res' version.

-Tyler

[Bill Tabor]

I agree, this is really cool Tyler. Great work! You should be really proud, as your skills and talent may be saving many lives and preventing injury on a macro level. I just started using it and so far only for reporting my position, but I will consider submitting reports this way as well. What Al says is very informative; however should a report of something such as a tornado also be phoned in additionally to logging on SN?

Last chase my connectivity was an issue but I likely will have that fixed by next chase.

[Van DeWald]

Speaking from the NWS perspective, YES, PHONE IN THE TORNADO REPORT! That's a life threatening event, and needs to be reported live. While SN is a great resource, there's no guarantee that folks in the NWS may be looking at it, or even have time to look at it. When you submit a report, you'll also get the NWS 800 number at the top of the page, so by all means, let us know immediately by speaking to a live person, otherwise we may not hear about it.

Van

[Tyler Allison]

As has been said...and is posted in big red letters when you go to the reporting page....anything life threatening should be reported via Phone (or other method such as Amateur Radio if that's what the local NWS wants) _FIRST_ and then return to the SN as a follow-up measure.

If you don't know exactly where you are, you could bring up the SN report page and it will give you the last known phone number for the NWS office, county, and nearest three cities and direction which you could use during your phone call.

-Tyler

[scott r currens]

As has been said...and is posted in big red letters when you go to the reporting page....anything life threatening should be reported via Phone (or other method such as Amateur Radio if that's what the local NWS wants) _FIRST_ and then return to the SN as a follow-up measure.

If you don't know exactly where you are, you could bring up the SN report page and it will give you the last known phone number for the NWS office, county, and nearest three cities and direction which you could use during your phone call.

-Tyler

It is still important to encourage NWS offices to setup the systems with alarms when a report is made. There are many places where I have data coverage with my Spring card and no-service with my ATT phone.

[Tyler Allison]

true...reporting by any means is better than not reporting at all :)

[Lee Kuhlman]

Al,

-Chasers → A fantastic resource for real-time severe reporting, and yet, often under utilized due to the lack of an effective communication bridge between the mobile spotter / chaser and the NWS, particularly in NWS county warning areas containing low population densities. The SN helps greatly to fill the communication gap.

-Ability to monitor chasers / mobile spotters through various third-party software.

-Ability to have rapid, real-time information to assist the warning decision process.



I'll add an additional thought to your thread. I head up the Storm Operations Team for my local city Emergency Management office. On a few occasions I have called a spotter on SN to get a "visual" on a storm headed in to my town that I was monitoring on GR2AE. The few times I've contacted someone, they have been a phenomenal resource. I love this application and rely on the reports to help my EM make intelligent decisions.

Thanks Tyler for an Awesome App!

Lee Kuhlman