4/28/08 DISC: VA

[Bill Hark]

I recently talked with Virginia chaser Bill Coyle who nowcasted for Virginia chaser Jesse Bass who intercepted a stovepipe tornado that moved over the James River in SE Virgina. Also, WVEC is showing a still of a wedge that was e-mailed to them.

From a different storm, there was some damage and injuries in Petersburg Virginia near where a tornado hit in 1993.

Bill Hark

[Eddie Natenberg]

A picture of a major wedge on the ground (that was taken earlier) was just shown on WVEC news. Kind of surprising.

Will post a link or screen cap when i can.

Eddie

EDIT: More pictures now online at http://www.wvec.com/news/topstories/stories/wvec_local_042808_wx_damage.abc5c485.html

[Mike Umscheid]

This is absolutely incredible. This is exactly the area I was invited to give a Greensburg tornado presentation at the Virginia Emergency Management Conference last month... in Hampton Roads!! The theme of the VEMC: "It could happen here". Wow. It sure did, just a month later!

[Bob Hartig]

Wow! I was following this and a couple other storms on my brand-new GR2AE, and while I don't have a clue what I'm doing with the volume scans, I had a hunch I was seeing something pretty interesting. I saved an image, or at least tried to save one, but I basically just let the program select my location for me--kind of an impulse snap-and-shoot. I'll look for the image, and if I can find it, I'll post it.

Update: Found it. Here it is...

[Bill Hark]

WAVY out of the Norfolk/Hampton Roads area now has a nice collection of tornado images. Check out this link:
http://www.wavy.com/Global/story.asp?S=8239672

I am really bummed I didn't take the afternoon off to chase. Even as late as around noon, I didn't have high expectations for the day. By the time things were looking interesting in SE Virginia, it was too late to try and move patients and chase. Thus event caught me off guard.

Bill Hark

[Chris Hayes]

I'm watching live video on CNN.com and there deffinately appears at least EF3 damage in some of the shots. One confirmed fatality as well :(

[Mark Sudduth]

Jesse did indeed capture it on video and will have it posted online as soon as he can. He called me and was quite excited, as you can imagine. Tornadoes in SE VA are rare enough and to catch one is even rare-er. And, he did it mostly with instinct and having his VX-2100 with him- which he does all the time anyway. Coyle was of great help as well. Looking forward to seeing it! Good job there Bass!

[Bill Hark]

Here are some more tornado images:
http://wavy.lintvmix.com/photos-browse.php?what=categories&for=1459

http://www.wtkr.com/Global/story.asp?S=8239350

I expect to eventually see some nice tornado video. This was a rather unexpected group of tornadoes and the analysis should be interesting.



Here are the MCD's leading up to this event:

12:50PM EDT
http://www.spc.noaa.gov/products/md/md0751.html

4:28PM EDT
http://www.spc.noaa.gov/products/md/md0753.html

16:30Z Day1
http://www.spc.noaa.gov/products/outlook/day1otlk_1630.html


Bill Hark
Looking forward to seeing Jesse's video.

[Paul Goodman]

The Virginian-Pilot online (http://hamptonroads.com/2008/04/tornado-touches-down-suffolk-one-killed-injuries-reported) article.

(Thank you mods for moving this to the correct forum. My mistake.)

[Eddie Natenberg]

Oh I could resist myself in seeing why this happened and I think I know why.

I took a MHX sounding and modified it for the 21z sfc obs and the 0-3 km CAPE is pretty impressive, couple that with 0-3 KM SREH in the 400 m^2/s^2 range via the VWP and thats calls for intense low level mesocyclogenesis in the lowest 1km of a relatively weak thunderstorm. This may be why radar presentation was poor when low level visual observations were impressive.


http://weather.ou.edu/~natenber/gmeta.001.gif

Enjoy!

EDIT: SORRY FOR THE DUPLICATE THREAD. MODS PLEASE DELETE MY OTHER THREAD.

[Brian Stertz]

My brother is an editor for the Newport News Daily Press and has heard that the tornado may be rated EF3 in Suffolk and Driver. Here is the Daily Press link:

http://www.dailypress.com/

[beaudodson]

200 injured - that is a pretty high number.

[Doug_Kiesling]

Hey folks, we just got this up on the web. I'm still working on the website for bnvn so I put it up on my blog for now. Jesse Bass was on this in VA today.

http://www.lightningboy.net/content/042808bnvnchesapeakevatornadoflv

[John Olexa]

They are rating it an EF3

[Angie Norris]

From what I've seen on CNN, EF-3 is pretty right on. Have they already finished the survey? They're still saying 200 injured, still some people trapped, but no fatalities yet. I think I heard 15 minutes lead time on the warnings...the guys at the WFO were really on top of the situation.

[David Dildine]

The survey hasn't been completed. It's EF-3 speculation at this point.

I just realized that this is the sixth anniversary of the infamous La Plata, MD F-4, the strongest ever in this part of the country. For as small as this supercell was, it had great graphic presentation.

http://photos-g.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v238/13/119/15601087/n15601087_34268326_1715.jpg

file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/OWNER%7E1.YOU/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpghttp://photos-f.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v238/13/119/15601087/n15601087_34268325_7972.jpg

[Kenny Drake]

Hey folks, we just got this up on the web. I'm still working on the website for bnvn so I put it up on my blog for now. Jesse Bass was on this in VA today.

http://www.lightningboy.net/content/042808bnvnchesapeakevatornadoflv

Wow that is some insane vertical motion. Given the modified sounding Eddie posted... it's no wonder! Vorticity stretching like I have never seen before. The operational models did not pick-up on the low levels well at all due to spatial resolution. WSR-88D didn't look impressive enough to be associated with an EF-3+ because the mid-level mesocyclone sucked (relative to the low-levels.) This was definitely a day when exactly the right things happened at exactly the right time for exactly the right duration of time. IMO without the Atlantic being right next door this event would have never happened.

[Scott Weberpal]

Nice viewer submitted videos of a VERY large wedge...

http://www.wavy.com/global/story.asp?s=8240537

[Bill Hark]

Here are some links to some of the better Virginia tornado images and video except Jesse's that was listed earlier.

http://www.wavy.com/global/story.asp?s=8240537

Favorite tornado images (**edit: The WVEC images have changed as more have been added, go to their website to see all the images)
http://www.wvec.com/perl/common/slideshow/sspop.pl?recid=9485&previous=26 (http://www.wvec.com/perl/common/slideshow/sspop.pl?recid=9485&previous=26)

http://www.wvec.com/perl/common/slideshow/sspop.pl?recid=9485&previous=35 (http://www.wvec.com/perl/common/slideshow/sspop.pl?recid=9485&previous=35)

http://www.wvec.com/perl/common/slideshow/sspop.pl?recid=9485&previous=17 (http://www.wvec.com/perl/common/slideshow/sspop.pl?recid=9485&previous=17)

http://wavy.lintvmix.com/photos-view.php?ID=1849490 (http://wavy.lintvmix.com/photos-view.php?ID=1849490)

http://wtkr.images.worldnow.com/images/8239760_BG3.jpg (http://wtkr.images.worldnow.com/images/8239760_BG3.jpg)

YouTube tornado video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w32d-JYpc7g (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w32d-JYpc7g)

Bill Hark

[Shawna Davies]

Until Jon Davies gets approved for ST, he's asked me to post that he has a case study about yesterday's Virginia tornado environment at:

http://davieswx.blogspot.com/

The study also highlights an ongoing problem with RUC soundings with low-level moisture in some situations.

Shawna Helt

[HAltschule]

The NWS in Wakefield, VA has officially classified the Suffolk, VA as EF3. In addition, they very coveredtheirassedly explained the very successful and advanced warning lead time in great detail.

PUBLIC INFORMATION STATEMENT...CORRECTED
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE WAKEFIELD VA
541 PM EDT TUE APR 29 2008

...PUBLIC INFORMATION STATEMENT...

A SMALL BUT INTENSE CLUSTER OF SEVERE THUNDERSTORMS DEVELOPED IN A
WARM...MOIST AIR MASS AHEAD OF AN APPROACHING COLD FRONT ON MONDAY
APRIL 28...2008. THE STRONGEST STORMS OCCURRED OVER SOUTHEAST
VIRGINIA AND PRODUCED SIX TORNADOES.

THE STRONGEST TORNADO TOUCHED DOWN NEAR SUFFOLK, VA AT APPROXIMATELY
405 PM. MONDAY AFTERNOON. THE TORNADO HAD A PATH LENGTH OF ABOUT 10
MILES LONG AND A QUARTER MILE WIDE. THE PRELIMINARY RATING OF THIS
TORNADO IS AN EF-3...PENDING FURTHER ASSESSMENT. THE TORNADO WAS
ON THE GROUND FOR ABOUT 15 MINUTES AND CAUSED WIDESPREAD DAMAGE TO
HOMES AND A FEW BUSINESSES THROUGHOUT SUFFOLK, VA.

THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE WEATHER FORECAST OFFICE IN WAKEFIELD
VIRGINIA IDENTIFIED AND OUTLOOKED THE THREAT FOR SEVERE
THUNDERSTORMS AS EARLY AS SATURDAY...APRIL 26. THE NATIONAL
WEATHER SERVICE IN WAKEFIELD ISSUED A WARNING FOR THE SEVERE
THUNDERSTORM WHICH PRODUCED THE SUFFOLK, VA TORNADO AT 303
PM...WHILE THE STORM WAS STILL IN NORTHEASTERN NORTH CAROLINA. THE
SEVERE THUNDERSTORM CONTINUED TO INTENSIFY AND THE NATIONAL
WEATHER SERVICE ISSUED A TORNADO WARNING AT 311 PM FOR PORTIONS OF
SUFFOLK VA...ALMOST AN HOUR PRIOR TO THE STORM AFFECTING DOWNTOWN
SUFFOLK. THE TORNADO WARNING WAS REISSUED AT 350 PM...AND STATED
THAT THE TORNADO WOULD BE NEAR DOWNTOWN SUFFOLK BY 405 PM. AT 404
PM...THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE ISSUED A SEVERE WEATHER
STATEMENT...STATING THAT NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE DOPPLER RADAR
INDICATED A TORNADO NEAR DOWNTOWN SUFFOLK. THE PRELIMINARY LEAD
TIME FOR THE TORNADO WAS 15 MINUTES.

$$

NWS/AKQ

[Rob Satkus]

Were they covering their a** or making a pre-emptive strike against the usual we had no warning BS?
It will be interesting to see if they do assess this further...some of those large homes that were destroyed were pretty much down to piles of debris on the foundation based on what I saw on the CNN feed yesterday...although I don't expect it to be rated such, it wouldn't surprise me if a house or two may have been low end EF4. Very surprised their weren't any fatalities.


Rob

[HAltschule]

It is pretty amazing that there were no fatalaties (as of yet) and hopefully there won't be any. I was also surprised that this wasn't of EF4 strentgh because their certainly looked to be damage that was consistent with a higher rating.

Having been a media person for many years, nothing that the media does would surprise me anymore. News departments are pretty pathetic with what they report on and sometime look for any angle that is of interest to the viewer. Sounds like the NWS Wakefield indeed was making it clear to everyone about the warnings being in place.

[Kiel Ortega]

I hope that PRELIMINARY and FURTHER ASSESMENT are the key word/phrase considering what is pictured below (from www.wtkr.com (http://www.wtkr.com) video). Slabs at minimum are 165 mph, which is 1 mph under EF4 (unless this changed; using EF Kit 1.1). I thought I saw a few more slabs in the video. Although I am quite curious why it appears a lot of these slabs appear to be raised.

[Dennis Sherrod]

The slabs appear to be on a sloped piece of property. My house is the same, except the backside is raised to compensate for the slope of the land. The slab of my house is almost ground level in front and is about 12" - 18" off of the ground in the rear.

[Chris Sokol]

I will have to jump on this bandwagon. I saw some sections in videos that looked like slabs only. Even at that, this should rate F4 damage:

http://www.wvec.com/images/slideshow/tornado_042808fixed/images/tornado%20damage%20aerials%20013.jpg


http://www.wvec.com/images/slideshow/tornado_042808fixed/images/tornado%20damage%20aerials%20013.jpg

This would be an incredible storm anywhere in the plains, but on the East Coast...good grief!

[Rod Donavon]

I would assume that a Quick Response Team (QRT) has been called in to access the damage as required by any suspected damage greater than EF-3, thus the pending further assessment wording. Certainly appears to be well built houses in the pictures that have been reduced to slabs.

If this is the case, the PNS probably could have been worded differently to reflect this.

[Mark Sudduth]

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/tafb/atl_anom.gif

Any chance all that very warm water off the mid-Atlantic was a contributor to the overall situation the led to the small swarm of tornadoes. I believe I heard that 9 separate tornadoes were observed in the area. Of course, I heard that on TWC last night- actually while talking with Jesse on the phone. I asked him "Nine?!?!" He seemed to think that was right.

I understand the mechanism for Plains tornadoes reasonably well but this coastal plain event with all that warm water offshore is of interest too. Especially with the upcoming hurricane season right around the corner.

[Angie Norris]

I just took a look at the pics in the WEVC slideshow...some impressive stuff there. I don't really think you can make a good case for slabs swept clean. Most definitely you can say some of those houses were totally destroyed, but the debris is still there (pics 122, 123, 125,126). In a couple of the pics, the slab looks fairly clean, but the debris is in the yard (pics 127, 129). There was only one clean slab that I saw in those pics (pics 17,18)...I'm very willing to bet that was a mobile home with the home laying in the field next to a semi-intact out building with some snapped off trees that don't look too bad. Going by the houses in pics 122, 123,125,and 126, that would probably be DOD 9 for FR12, so it could possibly go EF-4.

(Just my lowly opinion going by the pics...would need to be there to tell for sure)

[John Peters]

I'm assuming that the "at least EF-3" means they are calling in the QRT. I agree with the above posters: that damage looks pretty prolific. I do remember, however, seeing instances of that degree of damage with a resultant rating of high end EF-3,

[jladue]

I'm assuming that the "at least EF-3" means they are calling in the QRT. I agree with the above posters: that damage looks pretty prolific. I do remember, however, seeing instances of that degree of damage with a resultant rating of high end EF-3,

There will be no official national QRT this year due to budget cuts in the NWS. I'm guessing ideally this is one program that had to go in order to save other more important ones.

WRT to water temp, the surface was only 70/64 and the trajectories were from the Gulf so the Atl had nothing obvious to do with this.

If these houses were built like those in LaPlata, MD, then the foundation connections may have been subpar. The survey teams likely went lower than expected wind speed with a DOD=9 for a framed house. Since I wasn't there, I can only trust their in ground assessment.

Whenever I did surveys, I sure wish I had a wind engineer around as a consultant. That's what the intent of the QRT was supposed to be. As it stands, wind engineers must find their own resources for travel.

[John Robinson]

For those that haven't seen the new rules, use of a QRT in determining EF4 or EF5 tornadoes is now optional. This is contained in NWS Directive 10-1604, which is dated April 23, 2008. To be more specific, the directive says "the WFO may request a QRT". So, if the particular WFO has a lot of experience in assessing tornado damage and is confident they can make the proper call, they can now do so for EF4 and EF5 events without calling anyone else in.

[Brandon Smith]

I was checking out liveleak.com tonight and found this video of the Suffolk tornado. It was taken from the dashcam of an ambulance parked at the local hospital (I'm presuming the one that was hit). The video gives you the view from outside and inside the ambulance.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e13_1209708285

What I find interesting is that winds seem to peak when the tornado is about halfway out of the view of the camera. At this point, the flying debris breaks out the driver's side window the ambulance. Is this wind partially from the rear flank downdraft?

[Kiel Ortega]

I managed to get my hands on some of the photos from a number of surveys (ground and aerial) Suffolk. EF-3 looks really appropriate given that many of the houses that were slabbed had very little anchoring from wall to foundation. Most houses actually appear to be a type of slider with the entire house just moved slightly along the tornado path...large debris didn't go far and when it did go, it went in a very predictable direction. Amazing for an area so close to the Coast and a significant non-zero hurricane probability. Strong tornado regardless, as I found a photo of a car thrown into the SW corner of the medical building (?) along the path.