Greenburg tornado anniversary 5/4

[Eric Flescher]

The first anniversary of Greensburg tornado is coming up.
Post any forecasting, weather / meteorological thoughts or that chase day info that may related to this one year anniversary thoughts about the chase that day, related information, new pics you still might have and would like to post and website urls.

[Bob Schafer]

http://www.stormtrack.org/forum/showthread.php?t=16120&page=2

[Jim Saueressig]

Blown Away: Greensburg KS is on Discovery Channel if anyones interested. It just started.

[Wesley Luginbyhl]

Here are some photos I took in Greensburg a week ago when the cap decided not to break.
Greensburg Photos (http://owlsp.com/greensburg.html)

[Mike Smith]

Today's Wichita Eagle has an excellent story about what the people will continue to face after this weekend's commemorations are over: www.kansas.com/233/story/393186.html and I highly recommend reading it.

I also want to take a moment to recognize all of the meteorologists, chasers, spotters, emergency management and first responders who helped save more than 200 lives that night.

[Jim Saueressig]

Well mike that is a good read and it actually needs to be read.

I have been hearing many things from Greensburg about how people are not able to rebuild for various reasons from having had things rezoned to expenses. Many people wanted to rebuild the same dimension housing and such and were told no because they couldn't rebuild in the same spot etc, etc. It sounds like they have made it a nightmare to try to live there.

Now I will make some waves and maybe an enemy or two but here is my two cents.

If a tornado came today and took my house no one would give a crap. I highly doubt I would see anything more than a few days at a motel courtesy of the Red Cross. After a short while I would get a note from the city about them removing my debris at my expense if I didn't hurry up and get it done myself. I wouldn't be getting any funds or help from the federal government.

So why should the people of Greensburg? Why should they get my tax money? They should have been insured... Thats what I would be told. Why in the hell should my tax money go into a town thats decided to rebuild themselves "green" at an astronomically higher cost than normal construction? Why should Greensburg get special treatment and funding so they can run off half of their population because some green freaks decided they could push their agenda on a town that suffered a disaster and make a mint from their "green" ideas?

Now before you get to angry with me I do hate what happened to those people, I do feel for them but what this boils down to is political bull crap. They have been dragged blindfolded into someones political statement and get rich quick scheme. If you want to make a town somewhere thats all green then so be it, just don't jump into a disaster with your agenda because thats where the media attention will be and destroy the hopes of most of the people trying to survive and rebuild there.

Greensburg has become a joke, from the pictures I see coming from the area the only real progress to be made is talk, to much talk and very little progress. Many of those people probably thought that by surviving the tornado that they had survived the worst of their ordeal, little did they know at that time that it could get far worse.

[Bob Schafer]

Politics, politics, politics. Jim, I agree with you 100%, and I could elaborate a bunch, but I'll leave it at that. Gonna get deleted soon anyway.

[Jim Saueressig]

Gonna get deleted soon anyway.

Why do you think that? :confused:

I think its a topic that should be considered and there is no personal attacks other than at politicians and their shenanigans lol

[Bob Schafer]

Why do you think that? :confused:

I think its a topic that should be considered and there is no personal attacks other than at politicians and their shenanigans lol

"2. Prohibited content.
* ...political viewpoints."

While there are no personal attacks of individual ST members involved, we are definitely delving into political viewpoints, and ST certainly does have more than a few members who agree with the philosophy that "green" should be pursued regardless of the cost or consequences.

[Jim Saueressig]

I see. Well my post wasn't so much for the political points as to the points of abusing a disaster relief project for the political gain.

I know many people here have tried to help with relief there in Greensburg and thats a good thing. Maybe we can all learn from how this one has turned out and have fresh ideas for ways to relieve people that need help in the next disaster. In the end its for the people, not for the politics.

As far as "green" .... I am all for it but not if it is being shoved down my throat with false info or otherwise. I think the key to green is educating people with the truth and what options are available with their benefits. Most people are far more readily going to go with the flow if it looks like a good idea and they can see the benefits of doing so rather than having it shoved down their throats and being put in a position where they are suffering for it. If you want to impress people then show them something that is working don't tell them that they have to do something that they cannot see working.

[Mike Smith]

The Wichita stations are streaming the video of the commemoration at present. The President will speak at the high school commencement in a few minutes.

[Dick McGowan]

As far as "green" .... I am all for it but not if it is being shoved down my throat with false info or otherwise.

Who is shoving things down your throat? Do you live in Greensburg, KS? Did you not watch the show last night...where's the false info at? This was a decision made by the residents of Greensburg.


A I think the key to green is educating people with the truth and what options are available with their benefits.

And that is exactly what Greensburg Greentown (http://www.greensburggreentown.org) is doing. These aren't outsiders from the town trying to get rich, Daniel Wallach has lived in Stafford county since 2003 and all but one of the board of directors are from Greensburg.


Most people are far more readily going to go with the flow if it looks like a good idea and they can see the benefits of doing so rather than having it shoved down their throats and being put in a position where they are suffering for it.

Where are you getting this from? No one has ever shoved anything down anyone's throats, like I said up above, it was a community decision to do so. The residents are excited about setting an example for the entire world in which future communities will be built. Being a resident of Kansas yourself, you should also be proud that your state will be setting the standards for maximizing available resources to save energy and money, while reducing harm to our planet.


If you want to impress people then show them something that is working don't tell them that they have to do something that they cannot see working.

It is working, and will continue to work. No one is telling anyone anything, this is a tight-knit, strong-willed community that refuses to let Mother Nature's wrath stop them from continuing on with their lives.


Greensburg has become a joke, from the pictures I see coming from the area the only real progress to be made is talk, to much talk and very little progress. Many of those people probably thought that by surviving the tornado that they had survived the worst of their ordeal, little did they know at that time that it could get far worse.

Much of the things you stated in both posts hold no substance and are only opinions you share with very few. Until you talk with different residents, take a stroll through town, and develop a better understanding of what's really going on, you'll undoubtedly continue to think the same things. Things definitely won't be easy and haven't been, but the residents who have stayed are determined to rebuild their community and eventually their lives will return to normal.

BTW, Greensburg Greentown has a campaign, "One million, $5.00 donations" up on their website here (http://www.greensburggreentown.org/news/welcome/greentown-launches-ouristrongfont-size4-color003300brone-mil.html). For a little more than a gallon of gas, people can help the residents out with much needed financial assistance.

[Stan Rose]

Jim, I dont know enough about the Greensburg situation to comment or take any position, but your response doesnt exactly educate me. Care to enlighten? Who exactly are the "green freaks" who are using the disaster for "politcal gain" and what exactly is that gain? Can you point me to any stories from residents who resent this idea being "shoved down their throats"? It sounds from the article linked that most were insured, but obviously an F5 will tend to overwhelm policy limits! It's not surprising to me that the cost of rebuilding is so high, after all we live in inflationary times, inflation brought on by a society that pays lip service to being efficient but excels in excess. Would you turn down federal aid out of principle if it were offered to you after your house got blown away? Id prefer to hear facts rather than your opinions.
Edit: i see Dick beat me to the punch lol, well i'll let my post stand, id still like to know.

[Eric Wind]

Well mike that is a good read and it actually needs to be read.

I have been hearing many things from Greensburg about how people are not able to rebuild for various reasons from having had things rezoned to expenses. Many people wanted to rebuild the same dimension housing and such and were told no because they couldn't rebuild in the same spot etc, etc. It sounds like they have made it a nightmare to try to live there.

Now I will make some waves and maybe an enemy or two but here is my two cents.

If a tornado came today and took my house no one would give a crap. I highly doubt I would see anything more than a few days at a motel courtesy of the Red Cross. After a short while I would get a note from the city about them removing my debris at my expense if I didn't hurry up and get it done myself. I wouldn't be getting any funds or help from the federal government.

So why should the people of Greensburg? Why should they get my tax money? They should have been insured... Thats what I would be told. Why in the hell should my tax money go into a town thats decided to rebuild themselves "green" at an astronomically higher cost than normal construction? Why should Greensburg get special treatment and funding so they can run off half of their population because some green freaks decided they could push their agenda on a town that suffered a disaster and make a mint from their "green" ideas?

Now before you get to angry with me I do hate what happened to those people, I do feel for them but what this boils down to is political bull crap. They have been dragged blindfolded into someones political statement and get rich quick scheme. If you want to make a town somewhere thats all green then so be it, just don't jump into a disaster with your agenda because thats where the media attention will be and destroy the hopes of most of the people trying to survive and rebuild there.

Greensburg has become a joke, from the pictures I see coming from the area the only real progress to be made is talk, to much talk and very little progress. Many of those people probably thought that by surviving the tornado that they had survived the worst of their ordeal, little did they know at that time that it could get far worse.

Your response to the lack of attention is more lack of attention? I don't want to get the thread bogged down in politics, as it's clearly against the rules, but don't you think the proper response would be to re-assess how we view disasters and to move away from this individualistic, every-person-for-themselves, mind set?

[John Farley]

BTW, Greensburg Greentown has a campaign, "One million, $5.00 donations" up on their website here (http://www.greensburggreentown.org/news/welcome/greentown-launches-ouristrongfont-size4-color003300brone-mil.html). For a little more than a gallon of gas, people can help the residents out with much needed financial assistance.

Thank you for posting that link, Dick. I just followed it and made a donation, and would like to encourage others on the list to do the same. I know chasers have already helped a lot through the Storms of 2007 video, but this is another way we can all help out a community that was devastated but is now, with the help of their fellow Americans as well as their own determination, coming back, and doing it in a very positive and environmentally responsible way. I say more power to them!

[Jim Saueressig]

Ouch Dick..... LOL

Who is shoving things down your throat? Do you live in Greensburg, KS? Did you not watch the show last night...where's the false info at? This was a decision made by the residents of Greensburg.

You know I don't live in Greensburg Dick. This part of the statement was more of a generalization of how some so called green ideas are not so great and or are unproven theories and are showed down our throats. Kinda like MTBE, it was supposed to help reduce pollution from fuel consumption and in the end has poisoned numerous water supplies. This was a "green" effort when it started.

Where are you getting this from? No one has ever shoved anything down anyone's throats, like I said up above, it was a community decision to do so. The residents are excited about setting an example for the entire world in which future communities will be built. Being a resident of Kansas yourself, you should also be proud that your state will be setting the standards for maximizing available resources to save energy and money, while reducing harm to our planet.

I am proud of no state or government that imposes such restrictions on its people that they have to leave their homes (or home town) to survive. If Kansas wants to impress me then they will block the new coal plants from being built.....

It is working, and will continue to work. No one is telling anyone anything, this is a tight-knit, strong-willed community that refuses to let Mother Nature's wrath stop them from continuing on with their lives.

Its not natures wrath that is breaking them. If they are having to leave their own home town because in order to rebuild they must build to a new green standard that they cannot afford then it is green politics that are breaking them.

Much of the things you stated in both posts hold no substance and are only opinions you share with very few. Until you talk with different residents, take a stroll through town, and develop a better understanding of what's really going on, you'll undoubtedly continue to think the same things. Things definitely won't be easy and haven't been, but the residents who have stayed are determined to rebuild their community and eventually their lives will return to normal.

Did everyone agree to rebuild green knowing full well the extraordinary cost that would be involved beforehand?

BTW, Greensburg Greentown has a campaign, "One million, $5.00 donations" up on their website here (http://www.greensburggreentown.org/news/welcome/greentown-launches-ouristrongfont-size4-color003300brone-mil.html). For a little more than a gallon of gas, people can help the residents out with much needed financial assistance.

From their website it looks like it will mostly fund government buildings and schools. How will this help the residents who will have to leave because they cannot afford to rebuild according to the new green rules?

I am more of a people orientated person and not so much for excessive or unneeded government regulations and rules. I could care less if you burn an American flag or step on it, if you however decide to try to burn an American or step on them you will get me riled up. Does that make sense? ;)

If indeed people are having to leave the town and move elsewhere because they cannot even afford to rebuild their homes due to the extreme cost of "green" regulations then that is a serious problem for me. That is wrong in my book. If you want to start making things green for the future thats fine too. Just make it known and set your regulations for future development. These people are in a unique situation, they are not moving somewhere new with green regulations and trying to build non "green" They are trying to rebuild their homes.

I haven't been to Greensburg and talked to the people, some of you have. You have made great efforts to help people there and that is appreciated and respected. Am I misinformed about people having to leave because they cannot afford to rebuild under the yoke of new "green" regulations? I hope so, if not then maybe you could talk to some of them for their view on the situation....

[Jim Saueressig]

But don't you think the proper response would be to re-assess how we view disasters and to move away from this individualistic, every-person-for-themselves, mind set?

If we are willing to go that route yes indeed, but what seems to be more common is grab one situation and run with it while ignoring many other bad or worse situations. Thats also part of my problem, the individual is usually ignored for a media circus event. Sadly even the masses are often ignored unless there is some kind of media event following it.

[Stan Rose]

Still no facts....:rolleyes:

[David Schuttler]

Still no facts....:rolleyes:

From either situation .....

[Jim Saueressig]

Still no facts....:rolleyes:

Did you read the article posted before I replied. Construction costs drive more residents from Greensburg (http://www.kansas.com/233/story/393186.html)

Half the town's 1,400 people have left, many because their $30,000 to $80,000 homes would cost $100,000 to $200,000 to rebuild. They left even though FEMA, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, provided $69 million in aid, even though insurance companies paid $153 million in claims.

Many people in Greensburg work for $10 to $12 an hour, good wages here. But they can't afford $150,000 homes.

I don't have time right now for more but Google might help you to locate more.

[John Wetter]

Did you read the article posted before I replied.

Judging from the age of the homes looking to be replaced, it does not surprise me at all that it would be $200k to replace a $75k house. The article talked about how contractors must charge more as nothing can be locally sourced, including the workers. Going green usually adds about 5% to 12% onto the cost of a house, which you recoup in about 5-10 years and then it starts MAKING you money. The town going green is not what is causing people to not be able to come back. It's inflation and the difficulty in having a 'replacement cost' insurance policy vs. a 'investment cost' policy. The article talks about many of the people being insured for what it cost them to build the house the first time around, which simply won't cut it now, that's just an economic issue.

-John

[Helen Rossington]

Has anyone heard anymore about this project...Its all linked in with the 'green' theme being discussed here?

http://www.leonardodicaprio.com/leonardo/news/article.php?articleID=60

I heard about this last year but never heard anything more - or is it the same programme that was mentioned on the first page of this thread but under a different name?

[Mike Smith]

Has anyone heard anymore about this project...Its all linked in with the 'green' theme being discussed here?


It ran Sunday night on Discovery HD but Leonardo did not appear on camera.

[Stan Rose]

Jim, John has already responded for me. The article mentions nothing about higher costs being related to the 'going green' idea. I dont know if its a bad idea or not, but if you use provocative phrases like "green freaks" and "shoving down the throats" then i believe you should at least back up your claims.