Severe Weather Video Stream Theft

[Brett Adair]

Okay.....this is a topic that is seriously beginning to burn my ass. I'm using severe studios as a video host as many of you are, and several of these damn media folk think they can just take my stream and do as they please with it! I even had a copyright in there Saturday night since we were known as the "WAFF-48 Storm Trackers" and two other stations STILL picked it up without permission!!!! I'm invoicing the hell out of them because I am fed up and if they refuse to pay I have already consulted council. Is anyone else having this problem???!!! These folks don't understand that they are also hurting business you already have if you have exclusivity agreements with a station within that market!

[Mike Peregrine]

Ummmm ... what the heck?

Yes, please let me pay money to a service so someone else can profit from it.

I really hope this is mistaken -

[Ben Prusia]

I also hope this was mistaken...

There might be something going on that we probably don't know about...

[Chad Cowan]

I've been considering using Severe Studios to stream future chases but the possibility of this type of thing happening is turning me off to the idea. I'm also not a big fan of the 'Moderator Feed' which shows the best stream at the moment- with no display of the streamer's name. Just seems like they're repackaging the material as their own.

[Brett Adair]

Don't get me wrong.....I'm not throwing the blame at Severe Studios because they are actually helping me build a case! Sending me archived footage, emails that this station sent them for INSTRUCTIONS on how to get a feed on TV, etc. They still went AGAINST what they were told and STOLE it! I have a meeting for a minute.....I'll be back to post more of the story soon.

[Ben Holcomb]

We're still figuring out everything with our moderator stream. I don't think it even ever occurred to us to put names on there - And I'm not sure how easily it'd be technically. Currently we're overlaying graphics made in photoshop, so I'm not sure it'd be easy to create a graphic for every single one of our 105 streamers and open it, add it ot the stream and go live with it every time.

If you've been listening to the audio at all, the person in charge of the moderator feed has ALWAYS announced who the video is from. I suppose it's possible that we've not announced it before, but we definitely aren't trying to 'package it as our own'.

Our main concern from day 1 was to give all the chasers due credit. We do not want to claim their video as our own at all. Whenever TV stations contact us, we always refer them directly to the chaser they are interested in streaming. Furthermore, we have listed on our portal page this:

"NOTE: Video streams are a copyright of the individual storm chasers and are NOT FOR COMMERCIAL USE OR REBROADCAST without prior licensing agreements."

Under each stream we have this:
"Not for rebroadcast without prior written permission"

I'm not sure what else we could do to help out in this matter. We have given Brett every single one of his archives and will help him out in every way possible in fighting this blatant theft of his stream.

On the flip side, many TV stations have contacted us prior to airing feeds, and some of our streamers have actually sold licenses to the local TV stations and covered gas/expenses for said chase. The National Weather Service in Memphis also believes that on 5/2 we saved many lives and helped out with warning coordination just by our streams. They were able to verify which storms were tornadic and which ones were not just by our streaming video. We would love to have you apart of our service Chad, and we wouldn't ever claim the video as our own - That is just not how we are.

[Brett Adair]

We're still figuring out everything with our moderator stream. I don't think it even ever occurred to us to put names on there - And I'm not sure how easily it'd be technically. Currently we're overlaying graphics made in photoshop, so I'm not sure it'd be easy to create a graphic for every single one of our 105 streamers and open it, add it ot the stream and go live with it every time.

If you've been listening to the audio at all, the person in charge of the moderator feed has ALWAYS announced who the video is from. I suppose it's possible that we've not announced it before, but we definitely aren't trying to 'package it as our own'.

Our main concern from day 1 was to give all the chasers due credit. We do not want to claim their video as our own at all. Whenever TV stations contact us, we always refer them directly to the chaser they are interested in streaming. Furthermore, we have listed on our portal page this:

"NOTE: Video streams are a copyright of the individual storm chasers and are NOT FOR COMMERCIAL USE OR REBROADCAST without prior licensing agreements."

Under each stream we have this:
"Not for rebroadcast without prior written permission"

I'm not sure what else we could do to help out in this matter. We have given Brett every single one of his archives and will help him out in every way possible in fighting this blatant theft of his stream.

On the flip side, many TV stations have contacted us prior to airing feeds, and some of our streamers have actually sold licenses to the local TV stations and covered gas/expenses for said chase. The National Weather Service in Memphis also believes that on 5/2 we saved many lives and helped out with warning coordination just by our streams. They were able to verify which storms were tornadic and which ones were not just by our streaming video. We would love to have you apart of our service Chad, and we wouldn't ever claim the video as our own - That is just not how we are.

Exactly......I think some took my post out of context. Svr Studios is trying to help me in every possible way that they can to get this resolved.

Also, as Ben said we have gotten a ton of cred for the 5/2/08 event and people are trying to take advantage of that now it seems. If a media outlet is going to make thousands off of me for my video, I should at least get paid for my expenses. Since these guys want to steal, I will certainly be going for much more than my expenses. Maybe my expenses for the next 25 years or so....

[Chad Cowan]

We're still figuring out everything with our moderator stream. I don't think it even ever occurred to us to put names on there - And I'm not sure how easily it'd be technically. Currently we're overlaying graphics made in photoshop, so I'm not sure it'd be easy to create a graphic for every single one of our 105 streamers and open it, add it ot the stream and go live with it every time.

If you've been listening to the audio at all, the person in charge of the moderator feed has ALWAYS announced who the video is from. I suppose it's possible that we've not announced it before, but we definitely aren't trying to 'package it as our own'.

I didn't realize that there was sound with the moderator feed, and announcing the names does ease my concerns with that. It is a nice tool because it keeps the viewer from having to switch back and forth, but it would be good to somehow show the streamer's name on screen.

We would love to have you apart of our service Chad, and we wouldn't ever claim the video as our own - That is just not how we are.

Haha- did you mean "a part"? "Apart" would be the opposite :) Thanks for addressing my concerns, I'll be streaming next week.

[John Erwin]

I think the best way to implement unique labels would be to do it from the Client end.. before it gets to the server for distribution. Some camcorders can do this even.. place a label right on the image (a bit ugly on some models though). Would end up looking a bit like some of those police videos you see on TV.

Hmmm... that might not be a bad idea! If possible you could incorporate all kinds of data into the stream.. time, wx data, name, position..etc...

[Brett Adair]

Buy wirecast......you can do it with that software. You don't have to use Windows Media Encoder to stream your feed. :)

[Dennis Sherrod]

Severe Studios has given me every credit due for my videos. They have NEVER taken anything as their own or tried to claim it as such. I have received numerous calls from them since I starting using their service to let me know that stations are wanting my feeds.
I personally feel that Brett meant nothing against Severe Studios or vice-a-versa. Brett and I have talked before about this service and are pleased with it's professionalism.
We have both had to deal with the unauthorized use of our videos. Brett more so lately, as I have busted in the last week. As with any anything on the Internet, there is always the possibility of theft or unauthorized use. At the same time, I can not expect Severe Studios to babysit my feeds and see who all gets them. They do not have a list of my customers and I do not pay them enough to verify my feeds going out. If there is a problem, they bend over backwards to help me.
When the few times my feeds have been used without authorization, the stations promptly get a phone call and then a bill for my services. They have all paid and one now subscribes on a monthly basis. Use it some more, as long as you pay.
And to add to that, Thanks Kenny, Kory, and Ben for their service, as I just got a check today from one of my new accounts. 6 month payment in advance. Whoo Hoo.

[Dennis Sherrod]

I like Wirecast, but the only thing I have found is you need a faster processor to make it really run good. The RAM requiremenst are minimal, but I "think" the Processor recommended is 2.3.

[Ben Holcomb]

Yeah, the general idea behind the moderator feed is that we have 1-3 web producers watching the stream IMing the person doing the moderator feed - Then the moderator goes to whichever streams are the most interesting/radar shots/general shots of the moderator to keep it almost like a 'show'. This does 2 things

a. As you mentioned, allows for viewers at home to watch just 1 stream
b. Saves bandwidth as well - It's a lot less bandwidth as everyone is watching just 1 stream instead of watching 10. It also means users aren't having the dreaded dropped video and having to refresh - They can just watch 1 feed, and we deal with all the downfalls of the technology

And yeah, I did mean a part. :) I'm typing on my laptop keyboard, which isn't always the best. (I use ergonomical ones normally)

[kenny_allen]

I want to take a moment to add to Ben Holcomb’s comments.

Management at SevereStudios.com and SevereStreaming.com are dedicated to stopping and preventing theft of copyrighted video streams. We have worked tirelessly to stop the illegal rebroadcasting of streams on Television Stations and other Websites. When we encounter an issue, we work with that Independent Storm Chaser to identify the issue and provide them with all the support they need to stop the illegal embedding, copying, recording, etc.

We have received hundreds of emails asking to “embed” or “rebroadcast” streaming video on Television and various Websites. In every case, we consult the copyright holder before giving permission. Unfortunately, some individuals are determined to get what they want at any cost. This is where we will fight them everytime.

We have allowed websites to directly link to our website, our chase portal, and individual Chasers’ streaming video feeds (the hyperlinks only). This drives more viewers to the streaming video. This is NOT permission or a license to embed, copy, or rebroadcast the streaming video. “Linking” is merely providing a hyperlink to content already found on our service or the chaser’s website. Television Stations and other websites should not be replaying, rebroadcasting, embedding, etc. any video feed for which they do not have expressed written consent of the copyright holder.

In any case that we get a request to “buy” or “license” the streaming video feeds, we contact the copyright holder (Independent Storm Chaser) to give them the information for the interested party. It is at the discretion of the individual chaser to sell or not sell copyrighted material. We do not set the terms, conditions, or price for any rebroadcast or embedded streaming video for INDEPENDENT CHASERS.

Now, we do have some deals in place for our own SevereStudios.com Chase Team, and a few INDEPENDENT Storm Chasers have also given us approval to answer these types of inquiries on their behalf. There are also Chasers who have acquired their own media contracts. But, for most of the INDEPENDENT Storm Chasers, who stream live video through our service, we DO NOT resell their content. We do not “repackage” the content and provide it to third parties. We are here to help Independent Storm Chasers gain exposure for their own hard work. We are networking for YOU, not against you.

All feeds and images displayed on our Moderated Feed are still copyrighted and are given credit when used. This is typically an “audio” or “read” acknowledgement, but we are working on creating title overlays for each video stream and or picture used.

We also have multiple service levels at www.SevereStreaming.com for your convenience. These different levels are customized for the various needs of the Chasers who do not wish to embed or resell video all the way up to private accounts with unlimited archive access. I encourage all current members and those interested in joining to read through our different levels of service.

We are working on new “terms of service” that will include an “Opt-In” section so we can clearly identify which Independent Storm Chasers want their feeds displayed in the moderated feed, or may wish to resell his/her own copyrighted live video stream to Television networks or other websites. We hope to have this done very soon. We believe this will help us eliminate some of the confusion about the “Live ChaseCam Network”.

Also, I want to make it clear that the Television Station in question was explicitly directed, by me, NOT to rebroadcast or embed video without expressed written consent from us or the copyright holder (Brett Adair). This specific Television station decided to “take” the Chaser’s feed anyway, a clear infringement of copyright law. Now, after the fact, we are working with Brett to clear up this situation. We have provided him with all of our documentation and archived video (including email communications) with that station. I hope Brett wins his battle and we will continue to help in any way we can!

The Storm Chasing Community has put their trust in us. We do not take that lightly. We will continue to work hard to prevent the illegal rebroadcast, embedding, copying, etc. of individual storm chasing feeds. Because there are so many tools out there to subvert current copyright technologies, your help in this fight is appreciated. If you ever encounter a Website or Television Station that you think is illegally taking material, please contact us ASAP.

Thank you for your support!

[Steve Miller OK]

Also, I want to make it clear that the Television Station in question was explicitly directed, by me, NOT to rebroadcast or embed video without expressed written consent from us or the copyright holder (Brett Adair).

It would be nice to have the offending television station info so the rest of us streamers can monitor them too.

[David Drummond]

Some of these local stations are getting brazen about just taking whatever they want. I recently had a local station, that competes with the station I chase for, take some of my older video, and use it in a story to promote their own storm "tracker". I mean really, how much does he suck you have to use the competitors chase video to hype him up? In the end, it should pay for a season or two of chasing though.

[Brett Adair]

Some of these local stations are getting brazen about just taking whatever they want. I recently had a local station, that competes with the station I chase for, take some of my older video, and use it in a story to promote their own storm "tracker". I mean really, how much does he suck you have to use the competitors chase video to hype him up? In the end, it should pay for a season or two of chasing though.

I hear ya, David. With the amount of video that they used from me.....I may never have to pay to chase again.

[Dennis Sherrod]

David, I had to stop one of my new customers a couple of weeks ago from Iowa that was using my feed and then said they were going to use your's too. I had to put a stop to that quickly and remind them of my contract with them only allowed my video. They were advised to contact you directly for permission. I never did see anyone else's video come up, so they got the message.

[JIM SELLARS]

I've seen Brett's "stream" on Memphis stations and on 33/40...On 33/40...James refers to Brett directly and interacts with him...As an "Armchair Chaser" I appreciate the amount of chasers/spotters that "stream" on the various web sites and for the stations that they chase for...They provide a valuable resource for the NWS and Emergency managers....I feel there is a price to pay for the theft of the stream and information you guys provide....If I was Brett I would refer this to the stations that you do have an agreement with (like 33/40) and see if they can help resolve the problem...

[Steve Miller OK]

Some of these local stations are getting brazen about just taking whatever they want. I recently had a local station, that competes with the station I chase for, take some of my older video, and use it in a story to promote their own storm "tracker". I mean really, how much does he suck you have to use the competitors chase video to hype him up? In the end, it should pay for a season or two of chasing though.

At least yours is local, David. These stations bank on the idea that you aren't going to bother to spend the money to hire an attorney, do the documentation necessary, travel and all the other stuff involved in an out-of-state lawsuit all so you can go up against their legal team.
Maybe SS should put all the streams behind password or something...

[Brett Adair]

I've seen Brett's "stream" on Memphis stations and on 33/40...On 33/40...James refers to Brett directly and interacts with him...As an "Armchair Chaser" I appreciate the amount of chasers/spotters that "stream" on the various web sites and for the stations that they chase for...They provide a valuable resource for the NWS and Emergency managers....I feel there is a price to pay for the theft of the stream and information you guys provide....If I was Brett I would refer this to the stations that you do have an agreement with (like 33/40) and see if they can help resolve the problem...

Oh hell.....who were the Memphis stations and was it on 5/2? I haven't given anyone besides KAIT permission to have anything of mine on the air. I don't want to damage any relationships, but I would like to know who used it.

[Ryan McGinnis]

I'd reccomend you hire an IP attorney forthwith, Brett, and not try to do this on your own. You might consider Carolyn Wright (www.photoattorney.com (http://www.photoattorney.com)); I've heard good things about her. Register your footage with the US Copyright office immediately -- this will cost $45. Since you are dealing with a network, you're looking at someone with deep pockets. A willful infringement like this will net you five figures in settlement, most likely, but not if you go about it incorrectly.

[Brett Adair]

I'd reccomend you hire an IP attorney forthwith, Brett, and not try to do this on your own. You might consider Carolyn Wright (www.photoattorney.com (http://www.photoattorney.com)); I've heard good things about her. Register your footage with the US Copyright office immediately -- this will cost $45. Since you are dealing with a network, you're looking at someone with deep pockets. A willful infringement like this will net you five figures in settlement, most likely, but not if you go about it incorrectly.

I've been told this by more than one person. However, if they used over 30 minutes of my footage I hope they have very deep pockets.

[Kory Hartman]

If I may ask for a favor... please do not post any details about the "offending" station, ESPECIALLY call letters or names, in this public forum.

We could all be in legal "hot water" if one of us makes a libelous statement about said station, since this is now a private matter between Brett and the station. You can email Brett or I directly if you want more info, or have any other questions.

[J Kinkaid]

If anybody needs any help recording the tv stations stealing there feeds in other markets please shoot me a private message or catch me on aim or yahoo. I have access to local channels in 40 markets and can record it if you would like take legal action against the tv stations. Brett I saw your videos on $#$# Sunday morning .

[Brett Adair]

If anybody needs any help recording the tv stations stealing there feeds in other markets please shoot me a private message or catch me on aim or yahoo. I have access to local channels in 40 markets and can record it if you would like take legal action against the tv stations. Brett I saw your videos on Sunday morning .

Kill the call letters......LOL

I hate to be this way toward anyone, but if I have to do this to keep theft from occuring I will.

[Shane Adams]

I laughed out loud when I saw this thread. Didn't take long for live streaming video to get ripped off, like I knew would happen :rolleyes:

As I keep saying like a broken record, the more technology advances chasing to appease the "instant gratification" genre, the more easily people are gonna steal your sh*t. Sorry, but I just can't sympathize. Doesn't matter if you're right and they're wrong, the media world is full of thieves, and anyone who thinks they're immune is quite naive IMO.

If you don't want your stuff ripped off, stop posting it online...and for goodness' sake, don't live stream it. Otherwise you get what you get.

[rdale]

If you don't want your stuff ripped off, stop posting it online...and for goodness' sake, don't live stream it. Otherwise you get what you get.

Clearly live streaming is a HOT commodity these days... To suggest that chasers should stop because someone steals -- makes as much sense as telling musicians to stop selling MP3's because they'll show up on Limewire. There are enough honest people out there to make it work still.

And with threads like this, the thieves get caught, and the chasing gas bills get covered eventually :)

[Shane Adams]

Clearly live streaming is a HOT commodity these days... To suggest that chasers should stop because someone steals -- makes as much sense as telling musicians to stop selling MP3's because they'll show up on Limewire. There are enough honest people out there to make it work still.

And with threads like this, the thieves get caught, and the chasing gas bills get covered eventually :)

IMO this is no different than parking your car in bad part of town, then whining when your car is stripped an hour later. Just because you're the victim doesn't mean you're justified in crying over what was obvious from the beginning. Is the point I'm making.

I'm not saying chasers should quit streaming video, the groupies love it. I'm just saying stop whining about it when you get jacked, cause it's inevitable.

[Ryan McGinnis]

IMO this is no different than parking your car in bad part of town, then whining when your car is stripped an hour later. Just because you're the victim doesn't mean you're justified in crying over what was obvious from the beginning. Is the point I'm making.

I'm not saying chasers should quit streaming video, the groupies love it. I'm just saying stop whining about it when you get jacked, cause it's inevitable.

Shane, I don't think you fully grasp the legal options available to chasers who's images/videos get "jacked". I'm not talking about the 13 year olds on Youtube, of course -- but if you find your video feed being pirated by a national network or even a local affiliate, especially after you've explicitly instructed them that they do not have the rights -- there are recourses. There is no need to "whine" about it; in fact, it's probably best that as little as possible be said at all about it publicly. You just ring up your IP lawyer.

[Bill Tabor]

I'd reccomend you hire an IP attorney forthwith, Brett, and not try to do this on your own. You might consider Carolyn Wright (www.photoattorney.com (http://www.photoattorney.com)); I've heard good things about her. Register your footage with the US Copyright office immediately -- this will cost $45. Since you are dealing with a network, you're looking at someone with deep pockets. A willful infringement like this will net you five figures in settlement, most likely, but not if you go about it incorrectly.

How does this registration with the copyright office work if it is a live broadcast? Do you have X amount of time to submit in order to get full rights so that retroactively you could get the higher damages? I always heard if you don't file you still have rights, but can't get as much cash.

Actually, this could be a good quick way to fund some chases if you can get some good video and retroactively catch some national or local pirates. Sounds like that is what some of you are already doing.

Definitely let me know if you see my feed ever being used. My problem is finding a decent photogenic tornado this year while the cam is running. I almost had the second SevereStreaming tornado ever earlier this year south of Wichita Falls and just when the funnel was going to touch down I accidentally switched my cam off. I thought I was switching from Auto to Manual -which is something I do to lock in the infinity focus - instead I switched it the other way to OFF. :eek::mad:

Other than that when things got good I often had no decent cell signal for data. Then my latest glitch is for some reason my Windows Media Encoder at times won't display the video from the dashcam as I try to log on before pushing encode. That's some kind of crazy hardware issue - probably with the cam. It's getting a bit old and has been shaken to death after a few years of dashcam use during chases.

Maybe I can get it all to come together again soon. Guess I could plug my Vx2000 into it. Now that would be a picture and it would work in practical darkness. Problem is I'm not sure it would fit on the mount on my dash. If I'm parked I could set it up outside on a tripod though.

[Bill Tabor]

I don't see anywhere on the website where it talks about moderated feeds. Are there more verbose details on usage, and options from the streamers point of view as well as from the viewer?

[Shane Adams]

Shane, I don't think you fully grasp the legal options available to chasers who's images/videos get "jacked". I'm not talking about the 13 year olds on Youtube, of course -- but if you find your video feed being pirated by a national network or even a local affiliate, especially after you've explicitly instructed them that they do not have the rights -- there are recourses. There is no need to "whine" about it; in fact, it's probably best that as little as possible be said at all about it publicly. You just ring up your IP lawyer.

I fully understand this, as I've been involved in a similar case myself years ago back when we "live fed" from TV stations via satellite :-)

It happened to me the very first time I did this, and the whole ordeal I had to go through to get my money back was far more time-consuming and stressful than the money was worth in the end. I knew right then it would always be more trouble to police video thieves than it would be worth, so I stopped. I guess it's just differing opinions; IMO I just don't see how a few hundred bucks here or there is worth risking piracy every second you're feeding, and having the resources to police it 24/7 is impossible, unless you're loaded with dough.

I'd suggest anyone who plans to consistently live stream grab a team of attorneys NOW to be ready for when it happens to them...because it will. However, between what this legal security would cost you plus the soaring price of gas, I just don't see how a lot of chasers could afford it. Unless there's some legal secret for officially copyrighting live streaming video through the government (as it happens), you'd still be liable for all attorney/court fees regardless of any settlement. Unless the laws have changed somehow?

[Jay McCoy]

Then I guess we shouldnt post any pictures, Video or market DVD's either since they can also be used without authorization by some low life tv producer. Live streaming is still intellectual property just like photos and video. It is illegal to use them without permission.

This isnt a case of just hundreds but thousands and possibly 10's of thousands of dollars and yes you can force the defendant to pay court costs including lawyer fees if they are found liable. If we allow these stations to just do as they wish without consequences then why would they ever pay for video?? Add that to the new I-Report craze and chasers are out of the business of providing any kind of service to the media. We cant stop the I-rport crap but we can control theft of our property.

No different than a thief stealing my car because I left it in the driveway instead of the garage. just because its there doesnt mean they have the right to steal it and I am sure anybody would want the bastard locked up for it.

Most of us stream so we can share our experience with fellow chasers who are stuck at home but we do not want the media sharing it with their audience without compensation and it is expressly made that known to them. Changes may have to be made where its harder to stream it directly by a station without some sort of password or filter. Steve and I (mostly steve) have worked hard to make our feed the best and most stable it can be and were proud to be the 1st to stream a tornado as it happened. Its cool knowing 400+ people incuding the NWS in OUN and FTW were both watching us that day. I will say it does make you behave with your driving.....lol

[Melanie Kern-Favilla]

I'm not saying chasers should quit streaming video, the groupies love it. I'm just saying stop whining about it when you get jacked, cause it's inevitable.

I am proud to say that I am one of the 'groupies' to which Shane is referring. I am not able to chase regularly, and I greatly appreciate all of the streamers that allow those of us that are stuck at home in non-chaseable territory to virtually chase. There are streamers that are very aware of the feed at all times, constantly re-positioning their camera so that we do not miss a frame. I hope everyone continues to stream.

I believe that the streamers own their stream and should be compensated properly. They don't deserve to get ripped off just because there are thieves out there.

Melanie

[Melanie Kern-Favilla]

I don't see anywhere on the website where it talks about moderated feeds. Are there more verbose details on usage, and options from the streamers point of view as well as from the viewer?

I can only tell you that from my experience in using the Severe Studios site, the moderator feed isn't always running. When it is running, however, there is a link at the top of this page: http://www.severestudios.com/livechase. And yes, the moderator feed does have audio, but I've found that when my viewer pops up to watch the feed, the mute button is automatically defaulted to MUTE.

Melanie

PS: For those of us that cannot chase, the Moderator Feed is great. :)

[Andrew Stoller]

I'm a severestudeios groupy.

I think it's awesome! I can't chase all the time like a lot of you guys, and I appreciate very much the fact that you guys take the time, effort, and money to stream.

Regarding the live moderator feed, I personally think it's a great idea and on the last couple of big days, it's all I watch. With dozens of cameras going, it's hard to keep track of which feed has the action, and the moderator does that. And the mod makes it crystal clear who's feed it is, and shows the GPS position relative to the storm.

Much better than sitting there with 2 cameras that might have a good shot (and not knowing which ones) and 20 other ones looking at semi trucks on the highway.

How long will it take before it becomes a pay service though? Not only for media outlets, but us amateur chasers sitting back in the office? I fear it will go that route because utilizing the technology to allow certain people to watch your stream will make charging for it much easier.

[Brett Adair]

I'd reccomend you hire an IP attorney forthwith, Brett, and not try to do this on your own. You might consider Carolyn Wright (www.photoattorney.com (http://www.photoattorney.com)); I've heard good things about her. Register your footage with the US Copyright office immediately -- this will cost $45. Since you are dealing with a network, you're looking at someone with deep pockets. A willful infringement like this will net you five figures in settlement, most likely, but not if you go about it incorrectly.

I just shot her an email. I will burn my files to DVD tonight and send the copyright in. It's time to get some redemption for the thieves in the media business for all of us.

[Ryan McGinnis]

I fully understand this, as I've been involved in a similar case myself years ago back when we "live fed" from TV stations via satellite :-)

Unless there's some legal secret for officially copyrighting live streaming video through the government (as it happens), you'd still be liable for all attorney/court fees regardless of any settlement. Unless the laws have changed somehow?

If you register your work within 90 days of it being published (or live fed, in this case), the infringer is responsible for all court costs and legal fees, should they lose in court, which is highly likely if the facts support your case. This is why they usually settle for a large number when your attorney mentions that you have a registration certificate. Well, that, and the fact that courts can and occasionally do reward tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of statutory damages, depending on how flagrant the infringement was.

[Mike Peregrine]

That's a very good idea. You are still well within the registration time limitation.

It could be that if the stream were simultaneously taped, you'd be able to register the copy still in your possession, which may (or may not) include the stream itself. Several interesting questions come up. A lawyer would have to advise, but definitely some things to explore. This will likely become a whole new area of copyright law ... streaming video is only going to become bigger and bigger as time goes on.

[HAltschule]

Gentleman, Ladies:

As someone who works with attorneys everyday, I would suggest that you consult with one and have them write the appropriate letters on their letterhead to any TV Stations or other entities that have taken and/or aired your videos unlawfully based on the terms of the website and your video stream. I would also suggest that you use a "local" attorney to do this since your meetings and any other lawsuit related issues can add up. (You dont want to travel 3 hours away everytime something is needed).

Also, as a former TV guy....and RDale will agree I assume, your 30 seconds of video equals $1000-$5000 each time it is used (depending on the market). If it is national TV...then a 30 second spot would probably cost in the 10 of thousand of dollars, or more.

I always cringe when TV stations pull this kind of crap and then stand tough by offering their employees/Union shops a 0% raise.

Good luck.

[Bill Tabor]

If you register your work within 90 days of it being published (or live fed, in this case), the infringer is responsible for all court costs and legal fees, should they lose in court, which is highly likely if the facts support your case. This is why they usually settle for a large number when your attorney mentions that you have a registration certificate. Well, that, and the fact that courts can and occasionally do reward tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of statutory damages, depending on how flagrant the infringement was.

Ok Ryan, that makes sense..I thought I remembered we had 90 days from creation to submit, and even after that you have options you just aren't typically able to get as much. Martin Lisius is always talking about this stuff.

[Bill Tabor]

And yes, the moderator feed does have audio, but I've found that when my viewer pops up to watch the feed, the mute button is automatically defaulted to MUTE.

Ok, how does this moderated feed work? Is it being used for all chase feeds or only certain service levels? I was under the impression that there was no audio being transmitted. I don't necessarily want audio being transmitted without my knowledge. People can say anything when chasing spur of the moment and it's better to not have to constantly monitor yourself.

SevereStreaming could could you please respond to this?

[HAltschule]

One more things guys. If you are serious about a lawsuit or some settlement, save ALL of your gas, toll, internet connection receipts, etc....(anything that you pay for to chase). This will show that you have recurring expenses associated with your chases and there is a reason why you sell the rights to your videos.

[J Kinkaid]

Ok, how does this moderated feed work? Is it being used for all chase feeds or only certain service levels? I was under the impression that there was no audio being transmitted. I don't necessarily want audio being transmitted without my knowledge. People can say anything when chasing spur of the moment and it's better to not have to constantly monitor yourself.

SevereStreaming could could you please respond to this?



Chasers do not stream audio just video. They have a host that talks about storms and puts up active cams .

[David Drummond]

I would also suggest that you use a "local" attorney to do this since your meetings and any other lawsuit related issues can add up. (You dont want to travel 3 hours away everytime something is needed).

That sounds nice and all, but the closest "local" IP attorney is over 300 miles from me. Not to mention, if your going after someone local, sometimes local attorneys don't want to get involved. Just my experience...

[Ben Holcomb]

Obviously we aren't putting audio from the chaser up. We're just streaming a feed where we cut between radar, streams, etc and talk about it.

I realized I had mute set for the firefox code. My mistake. :( I fixed it, so everyone should hear audio next time.

The audio comes from Kenny Allen, Kory Hartman or one of our other moderators (Johnathan Brouwer has also moderated) talking and explaining what is going on - It's almost what you'd expect from a TV station that breaks into coverage, only we're doing it for the entire nation.

But Bill, rest assured, nothing you say is being transmitted :) Just your video.

[rdale]

But Bill, rest assured, nothing you say is being transmitted :) Just your video.

So when you moon the camera - you can say whatever you want :p

[Ben Holcomb]

I can just picture it now... Rob is on the air saying "Now we're going to go to Ben's cam..." and I run out in front of the cam and drop my drawers and moon the cam. Ratings would fall dramatically after that! :)

[Mike Peregrine]

So when you moon the camera - you can say whatever you want.

Actually, this is another idea for how to handle streaming video theft being broadcast by unlicensed TV stations.

[Andrew Stoller]

When I was watching Steve Miller's feed a week or two ago, he had audio. Was listening to some Bohemian Rhapsody. Good stuff!

[Shane Adams]

I never said chasers who stream or whatever deserve to be stolen from...I just said they should expect it. I've nothing against any chaser broadcasting their every move 24/7 (that's what it's coming to), but at the same time, complaining about theft just seems moot.

Just my humble opinion, it certainly doesn't matter in the 'big picture'.

[Brett Adair]

I contacted Carolyn....and now I basically have to gather the evidence. Going to send my video in to get it registered later this week on a data DVD disk. Can I send the stations coverage in that has my stream on it to register as well?

Anyway, apparently I have a VERY strong case and if they don't settle out of court it would be pretty stupid. We shall see and I will keep you updated.

[Jay McCoy]

When I was watching Steve Miller's feed a week or two ago, he had audio. Was listening to some Bohemian Rhapsody. Good stuff!

Must have been Steve from Oklahoma because I know we dont have sound setup on ours (steve tx). At least I hope not. Would hate to have to watch what I am saying as much as watching my driving..grrrrrrr

Now if it was Shane on there it would be fun to listen in. I have heard plenty of his "in car" sound bites and still laugh abou them.

[Steve Miller OK]

Geez, I hope it wasn't me - I can only imagine what I say during a chase.
I'll be streaming at HamWx.com (http://hamwx.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=53&Itemid=58) today starting from a little southwest of the OKC metro if anyone is interested in watching. For any media interested in stealing my stream, please call the 800# below the stream first - I'm sure we can work something out - ha!
I WILL be mooning the cam every few minutes to ensure theft is kept to a minimum.

[J Kinkaid]

Tyler needs to add a moon icon to the spotter network icons so we know when not to look

[Brett Adair]

LMAO! Quite an interesting turn that this topic has taken.

[Andrew Stoller]

Geez, I hope it wasn't me - I can only imagine what I say during a chase.



All I can say is, man, you cuss like a drunken sailor who's also a truck driver...

Naw, just messin with ya. All I heard was some Queen and a cell call form what seemed to be a TV outlet - asking if you were watching anything good.

The funniest was about 3 weeks ago, when there was that isolated supercell north of Dallas. You got out and were in front of the cam...great vid of a gorgeous meso, and you turned to the cam and gave a quick devil horn hand sign. I was laughing my ass off!

[Ryan McGinnis]

I contacted Carolyn....and now I basically have to gather the evidence. Going to send my video in to get it registered later this week on a data DVD disk. Can I send the stations coverage in that has my stream on it to register as well?

Anyway, apparently I have a VERY strong case and if they don't settle out of court it would be pretty stupid. We shall see and I will keep you updated.

No, only register the stream that you created -- do not try to register a capture of the TV stations coverage. Not only would that not work, but you'd probably be breaking the law for knowingly registering content that isn't yours (i.e., any graphics, commentary, etc that the news station provides.)

[Brett Adair]

No, only register the stream that you created -- do not try to register a capture of the TV stations coverage. Not only would that not work, but you'd probably be breaking the law for knowingly registering content that isn't yours (i.e., any graphics, commentary, etc that the news station provides.)

That's what I thought, Ryan. Thanks for giving me clarification though!

[Chad Cowan]

I have been in contact with some Chicago media outlets regarding streaming video. One station informed me that they will not pay for content on their website because:
...we’re actually the people behind http://www.livenewscameras.com as well and work with Severe Studios quite a bit – incorporating streams from their users on our site.
On a technical level, integrating with Severe Studios could not be easier – we know how it works and it plugs right into our framework.
Just for background - there are no ads on LiveNewsCameras currently and it is a beta site not generating any revenue – and it averages around 5,000 unique users a day

Looking at that website I see that they have the MODERATOR FEED embedded. Am I missing something here? Are they paying for this?

[Jayson Prentice]

The livenewscameras.com site actually has at least two of the SevereStudios feeds integrated onto their site under the 'weather' tab. The moderator feed and it looks like stuart robinson's feed is also available there under the 'Chase Cam 1' link.

Everything that is available for the taking, illegal or legal, is going to be taken if it is available. The sad thing is that it may likely come down to putting a logo or copyright across the video feeds to stop people or TV stations from stealing them.

[Brett Adair]

My feed has been there.......I gave them permission before they ever put it on that page though.

[Chad Cowan]

My feed has been there.......I gave them permission before they ever put it on that page though.

That's good that they're asking permission before they put it up. What about the moderator feed though? That stream shows a little bit of everyone's and I doubt they have permission from each person.

[Kory Hartman]

At SevereStudios, we marvel at how well the Chaser Community watches out for each other.

Because we have active weather going on, and over 10 streamers currently in the field this evening, we do not have time to respond to all the concerns and questions in this thread.

LiveNewsCameras.com is a PUBLICITY partner... all they are is a live news feed "aggregator". It's no different than posting a direct link here on StormTrack, someone linking to a feed from their personal website or blog, or the feed getting "Fark'ed". All it does is generates more "eyeballs" on the stream and gives you more publicity for what you do as a chaser.

There is a big difference between "LINKING" and "EMBEDDING" or "REBROADCASTING", but we'll get into that another time.

No money has changed hands with LiveNewsCameras.com or any other agency through SevereStudios regarding independent chaser feeds.

Anyone who is a current SevereStreaming subscriber (free OR paid) and has concerns about any of the partnerships we have with other websites or companies can be directed to me. My email and phone are under the following link (viewable to members only):
http://www.severestreaming.com/support

Look for an "official" response to this thread in the next 24 hours, weather permitting.

Thanks!

[Dann Cianca]

When I was watching Steve Miller's feed a week or two ago, he had audio. Was listening to some Bohemian Rhapsody. Good stuff!


That brings to the front another question:

If you are running audio while streaming, what if you are playing music in your vehicle (radio, CD, mp3, satradio, 8track ... ) Is that copyright violation?

[J Kinkaid]

That brings to the front another question:

If you are running audio while streaming, what if you are playing music in your vehicle (radio, CD, mp3, satradio, 8track ... ) Is that copyright violation?

If you are not licensed by BMI or ascap then it is :eek:

[Dann Cianca]

If you are not licensed by BMI or ascap then it is :eek:

Yeah.... something to think about .. BEWARE CHASERS!!!

[Tim Shriver]

After being involved in the fight against the RIAA concerning Internet radio stations I can say this. If the RIAA can find a way to pull money out of your pocket for
"broadcasting" copyrighted music they will.

That being said, if it is "Incidental" I see no problem. This being
a song heard in the background while you are talking and not hearing the
song from start to finish and of broadcast quality. I do not think they would
have a problem.

If you turn up your favorite tune and its plays all the way through, then
they might come knocking on your door.

Also if you receive compensation for your video/audio stream that throws
up a big red flag.


The RIAA loves to spend their money sending out nastygrams demanding cash.

I hate to say it, but if I ran SevereStudio.com or some other streaming provider
I simply would not allow audio, unless they want to hold their broadcasters to
a strict code and the broadcaster would have to start keeping logs of what song
was played and when. Then submit your logs to the RIAA along with a check.

It s**cks to say the least. But these folks have eyes/ears everywhere and
have some strong support in Washington. (money well spent on their part)

Tim

[Jason Foster]

As soon as Initiation begins, I find it good practice to just turn all music and other background noise off. It makes for better, cleaner video....and in this case, would avoid any copyright issues.

I'd be curious about the "linking" part of using a stream. If I were streaming video (and likely will this hurricane season), there would be ads with that stream, and I would not allow anything except a text link or graphic (banner) ad linked to my site so that I'm the one generating the ad revenue and traffic to my site, not someone else. But then again, I'm trying to limit the amount of money I pay out for chasing.

And always watermark your imagery. Even if you don't mind folks having it for free it does two thinks....forces folks to ask permission to use the image, and if some does link to it, they know were the source came from, directing them to your site, feed, etc.

[Tyler Allison]

Time to take a porn image or something else offensive and drop that sucker into the video stream of the offending station. Let's see them pull a live stunt like that again.

I catch a station doing that to the Spotter Network they get one chance to come clean, otherwise their feed gets changed around into something more....interesting.

[Brett Adair]

BTW.....my case has been resolved. WAAY decided to settle and I looked to have gained a customer out of the deal. :) Ended in a good way, IMO. Can't give out any specifics with the confidentiality that we agreed upon, but it was nice that they were so willing to work with me.

[Mike Peregrine]

Good to hear. It really does pay to just be up-front and give folks the benefit of the doubt! Usually these types of things are actually the result of simple misunderstandings.

[David Drummond]

BTW.....my case has been resolved. WAAY decided to settle and I looked to have gained a customer out of the deal. :) Ended in a good way, IMO. Can't give out any specifics with the confidentiality that we agreed upon, but it was nice that they were so willing to work with me.

Well of course they were willing to work with you. Most thiefs are AFTER they get caught. Just ask any cop.

[Jay Cazel]

I think most media outlets take this theory....

It's easier to ask forgiveness than it is to get permission. :D

[David Drummond]

Sometimes they do. Which is why when they do, you always charge them a LOT more than you normally would have, so they have a reason to thing twice about it next time.

Or they could be like the one I am dealing with now, and just flat out said they weren't going to pay me for what they took, and now we have to go to court so they can pay me a whole lot more than they would have.

[J Kinkaid]

rumor has it that they gave Brett a Waay bumper sticker and Tshirt :)

[Ben Holcomb]

Ouch David! I hope you get rich off that :)

They also gave Brett a coffee cup.

[Jay Cazel]

I thought they might have sent Brett a lightbar....:p

[Brett Adair]

Nah......they ripped off WHNT's dual-pol radar for me and are having it delivered and placed on my storm chase vehicle. ;) Whole new meaning to the "Dopper on Wheels".

[Doug_Kiesling]

I always tell people in the media that get busted for copyright violations that they have three prices.

The price you could have paid if you set something up before you ripped off the video.

Now were at the second price, the price I'm asking you to pay now that you have been busted like a college kid downloading from the dozens of free music sites.

And then there is the third price which is the price you will pay my lawyer after the law firm teaches your company the basics of Chapter 5 of Title 17 of the US Code. http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html

I have never had anyone ask to pay the third price.

The problem these days is with the new generation of people working in the media. They grew up on Napster and don't read the fine print. Last month we had a tv station use footage that we even made sure the network news desk called and told them they can't touch it. The next day, they did and they got busted and I was not in a good mood that day to begin with so someone got their arse chewed like a Big Texan that was way overcooked.

[Kory Hartman]

An official response to this thread has been posted at:

http://www.severestudios.com/files/SevereStudios_Statement.pdf

Apologies for the delay in completion.

[Dennis Sherrod]

An official response to this thread has been posted at:

http://www.severestudios.com/files/SevereStudios_Statement.pdf

Apologies for the delay in completion.


Kory, Kenny, Ben and the rest of the crew at Severe Studios,

Good response and explanation. As always, each of you have my continued support and business. Thank you for a great service !!

[J Kinkaid]

Well this doesn't look good

13.) SevereStudios/SevereStreaming reserves the right to insert or co-locate branding and advertisements of any type in video streams from free accounts, and collect all revenue for itself.

[rdale]

Why? You aren't paying anything for the service, but based on prices I got for streaming in the past -- it's for from free... So it makes sense that they reserve the right to recover some costs. I can't imagine it's going to make them millionaires, nor is that why they are providing this in the first place?

[Kory Hartman]

James... I'm not sure why you insist on trying to stir up controversy. Part of that #13. is there because of the google ads displayed next to the streams.

How do you know what we are making off the ads, anyway? Right now its not even covering the new web server.

We aren't doing any insertions now, and probably won't. But as viewership numbers go up, so does our bandwidth costs. We have to be able to cover expenses and worry about becoming millionaires later.

[John Erwin]

This sounds more than reasonable to me, and furthermore it follows standard operating practices on the web these days.

A great idea that keeps on getting better! I may need help from my virtual chasing additiction BTW.. :)