Re-used tornado video from 6/12/04

[Dan Robinson]

The high standards and integrity of citizen journalism continues! I thought something looked familar when I saw this video, purported to be a tornado in Valentine, NE a couple of days ago on the AP feed:

http://video.ap.org/v/Legacy.aspx?p=truveo&g=2b3e0c94-51b3-4c1b-b861-d2e1f07fcdd2&partner=en-ap

This is footage of the Rock, Kansas tornado from June 12, 2004, with the image flipped horizontally and frame rate sped up. I've seen this clip all over the news sites the past few days (USA Today, TWC , local affiliates, etc), it's made the rounds.

I guess I could be mistaken, but I just compared the frames with my own footage from that day, and the tornado's shape and evolution matches perfectly. (This is not my video, but is from one taken from a similar angle).

My footage from this tornado is here:

http://stormhighway.com/video-rock.shtml

I figured chances are this is someone's footage getting ripped off, with the submitter hoping the image flip/speed change would mask it.

Dan

[Jeff Snyder]

I agree that it looks an awful lot like the Rock tornado, and it's blatantly obvious that the video has been sped up (doubled?). I went back and compared it to some of the stills that I grabbed from that day and, indeed, some of the prominent features are very similar (e.g. the very sharp bend as it ropes out, etc). Of course, with as many tornadoes as there are each year in the US, I'm sure there have been many others that have looked like that Rock tornado, but it is certainly quite suspicious!

[Brian Stertz]

Yep agree Dan....that sure looks suspiciously familiar to me too. I saw the whole tornado life cycle in person. Plus the topography and vegetation does not match up with anything in the Valentine NE area. The footage was definitely sped up to make a wow factor. I saw that on the news and was like thats a whirling dervish. No dervish apparently after seeing the video closely. I think the AP will owe somebody (chaser ??) some $$$ for that footage that was pirated it seems. That was video shown here on Fox 4 in KC....at least that is where I saw it locally. It probably has been shown on hundreds of tv stations in the US and who knows in what other countries if this was an AP feed. Good catch on that one Dan.

[Bob Schafer]

I'm 100% sure that that's the 040612 Rock KS tornado. So, whose vid is it that got ripped off?? I bet we'll eventually find out.

Here's my version of that tornado, FWIW:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odEYkX7Ay7E

[Shane Adams]

That's the Rock tornado, I predicted every change before it happened.

If they did that with every tornado clip that's currently available online, they'd never need to buy a single second of footage again. Hell, the stuff chasers give away on youtube alone, would last them a lifetime.

[Dennis Sherrod]

If they did that with every tornado clip that's currently available online, they'd never need to buy a single second of footage again. Hell, the stuff chasers give away on youtube alone, would last them a lifetime.

That is true. Why would newsmedia or individuals buy footage anymore. There is more freebies out there now on youtube than you could buy.

[Dan Robinson]

I just checked a couple of network feed servers, and the source video from this is a full-size 720x480 file, full-res video. As such, most likely not a CJ submission stolen from the web. It was also fed nearly everywhere, which is unusual for an amateur photographer (unless they took it to a local TV station that then distributed it to all of the feeds).

[Erik Burns]

That's the Rock tornado, I predicted every change before it happened.

If they did that with every tornado clip that's currently available online, they'd never need to buy a single second of footage again. Hell, the stuff chasers give away on youtube alone, would last them a lifetime.



LOL.. Don't give them any ideas now..

I am so fed up with the media twisting things it makes me sick!!:eek:
My team chases for the 4th largest market in the US and when we give them tornado footage, They won't use the best part of the footage, and they never tell anybody where exactly where we caught it.. They always have to say we saw it next to a large town or city for the shock factor.. I know they don't use the best part of the footage because they don't want to pay us top dollar or it...
The general public makes me sick as well with them sending photos in and video of things that are not tornadoes or funnels, So nieve. The media doesn't help any by showing thses false images and telling the GP that they are tornadoes, funnels, ect... Like the Photo of a " tornado " that made it to NY times/ Nothing in the photo even looked like a tornado. All it was a HP supercell with what looked like a superwet RFD with some scud tags. People were eating this photo up saying it should win awards and so on. Many of us in ST have photos more worthy of an award then the photo posted in NY times.
I will get off my soap box now!:D
Well back to the correct subject

I noticed this video too, when I went looking for some possible footage of that storm shortly after I saw all the reports coming out of it. I found the video being discussed, when I noticed how fast everything was moving it didn't look natural. It seemed fishy.. Plus I even noticed what Brian stated about the topography, I have been up there a couple of times to Valentine. I was scratching my head thinking, I don't remember it looking that way.
Hopefully somebody will get down to the bottom of this and the money will into the pockets of who deserves it.

[scott r currens]

Yeah that is definitely the Rock, KS tornado. I wonder if the video was ripped-off. It is possible that the owner made some "changes" to the clip then sold it as a recent tornado. I often wonder what would happen if a chaser got caught repackaging tornado footage. I know the media would never catch them but chasers sure would. This probably isn’t the case here but I’d bet it will happen.

Is anything going to stop the media from using stolen photos and video? Maybe we should all pull a prank on the media to prove a point. We could fabricate a fake tornado outbreak and send them all kinds of footage of the same tornadoes from different angles. That would be great! :D

The sad thing is it would be really easy to pull off.

[Mike Peregrine]

It would be cool to start a website/blog that tracks all of these erroneous reports somehow. It's only going to get crazier as time goes on. Chasers could practically go into business just going after pirated video these days, rather than marketing the stuff in the first place. And I still think that we all should clandestinely submit old tornado video from time to time. I just read a good article (link in my blog here (http://stormseason.blogspot.com/2008/07/photojournalism-taking-hit.html)) about what's going on with the media these days and how it is affecting contract and career photographers.

[Brian Stertz]

Calls to question in that case Dan, who would be passing off old video as current stuff to the AP ?? Now that the chasers of the board have certainly nailed down that this was indeed the Rock KS tornado and not anything shot near Valentine NE...we've got the mystery of whodunit. It will be interesting to see what the AP has to say about this one. There were probably a hundred plus chasers on this Rock tornado, so its not that unique video really (unless sped up to Andover type movement for wow factor that is :rolleyes:)

[Damon Scott Hynes]

1. I always wondered what the charm was in showing 'fresh' car-skidding-down-an-icy-hill-and-hitting-another-car footage.

B. I am a genius :): http://stormtrack.org/forum/showpost.php?p=182544&postcount=11

[Doug_Kiesling]

I looked into this for Dan after he sent me the info and I have talked with a bunch of the networks and it sounds like a stringer / chaser has just ended their career just to sell footage from four years ago in order to make a quick buck.

[Mike Peregrine]

Oh boy. There's just no way this can end well.

Not going to be pretty.

[Shane Adams]

I can understand needing to make quick money, but you have to (or I do anyway) keep your integrity. Selling out is one thing, at least that's real. But fabrication is quite another. This will be some excellent blogging material once the details start seeping out (and they will), and should effectively ruin the name of whoever pulled this stunt.

But the upside is, maybe bringing this out into the open will finally get the media's attention and make them realize just how out-of-control it's gotten with the fake photos and misinformed stories regarding severe weather events, and most of all, that they have been a huge part of the problem.

[Brian Stertz]

This has gone back to the OLD days like around the late 1800's and early-mid 1900's when they would doctor photos and fabricate events using same photos to sensationalize the storyline. Tom Grazulis has a write up in Significant Tornadoes about this. I hate to think we are back to that but it seems pirated photos, staged video stunts, and now improper video facts with the actual event are becoming more known.

[Joe Lauria]

Since I remember our station running this video...From an AP story...
By DAVID BAUDER

NEW YORK (AP) - The Associated Press and video services operated by CBS and NBC have pulled video allegedly taken of a tornado in Nebraska last weekend after questions were raised about its authenticity.

A tornado chaser has claimed that the video was a doctored version of pictures he had taken of a twister that touched down four years ago in Rock, Kan.

The AP paid another storm chaser, Andy Fabel, $295 for footage of a tornado that briefly touched down Saturday afternoon near Valentine, Neb. The video was sent Sunday to nearly 2,000 Web sites that subscribe to the AP's Online Video Network, and more than 60 large digital customers that buy AP's online content individually.

Yet on Tuesday, a person who asked that his name not be used contacted the AP and said the supposed Nebraska footage was really video he had taken four years ago. The image was "flipped" to make it seem the tornado was pointed in another direction, and the action sped up. The Nebraska images add power lines and subtracts trees that were in the Kansas pictures.

Upon seeing the video evidence, the AP eliminated Fabel's video from the Online Video Network late Tuesday and contacted its other customers to urge them not to use it, said Kevin Roach, the AP's acting head of domestic broadcast news operations.

"We never want to mislead people," Roach said. "Based on evidence provided to us, we believe that the video was not authentic."

Fabel did not immediately return an e-mail and message left on his cell phone by the AP. Officials with NBC News Channel and CBS News Path said they had talked to Fabel and he had insisted his pictures were authentic.

Both the NBC and CBS services provide video to the network's affiliates. Both had purchased Fabel's video and sent it out, then took it off their servers on Tuesday after suspicions were raised about its authenticity, representatives said.

"There was enough evidence for us to make it suspect," said Sharon Houston, an executive producer with NBC News Channel.

The AP has purchased tornado video from Fabel three times before, Roach said.

[Dennis Sherrod]

It does not surprise me this happened, but what does surprise me is that he supposedly did this and ruined his name and reputation for a petty $295.00.
Isn't this the same guy who supposedly did work for or was involved somehow with TWC also?
I would think people would learn after hearing the stories of others who have done similar things and got caught.

[Chad Cowan]

It was just a matter of time until this kind of thing happened, but my money was on chaser video being uploaded to CNN iReport by someone else. Hopefully this will have a positive impact for the people who sell authentic video to the media.

There is an Andrew Fabel who is an ST member and judging from some of his great contributions to this forum it's probably the same guy. A few gems:

I have room to take 1-2 chasers from mid April to May 3rd -- the rest of May & all of June I'm totally full since my girlfriend and other chasers are going out w/ me this year. I'm a full-time, professional tornado chaser -- I own a film company that sells my severe weather footage all year round.


I have all the equipment so if you want to ride along and see a bunch of tornadoes you're welcome to -- I have a couple of XL-1's that I don't use anymore that you could use if you wanted but I'm sure that you have your own video cameras. Historically, I do quite well the last 2 weeks of April and so far 2008 is looking awesome.


If interested, email or PM me but please only serious inquiries because I've been so busy filming all the severe winter weather the last 3 weeks around the country that I really don't have time to reply to prank inquiries.


Thank you in advance for your consideration.


June 13th, 2007 (4 miles west of Orienta, OK on Highway 412 in the Glass Mountains)

I knew I was in a bad spot w/ MTN showing strong rotation to my south. I basically was right under the huge meso when the tornado dropped approx. 800 feet to my south. It was a sidewinder but def. moving directly at me. I was so close that I could see cactus being ripped out of the ground.

It was mesmerizing and I didn't want to leave my front row seat so I didn't. In a split second, I planned to keep filming until it got 100-200 feet away then jump into the steep ditch and take the hit. Since I was directly in front of the tornado, I was getting hit w/ light precip so my XL-1S was constantly going out of focus (I was even on manual focus too) which really pi**ed me off.

The tornado lilfted when it got 400-500 feet away and passed directly over my head. I could see the funnel spinning away prob. 200 feet over my head. That was 1 of 4 that I saw that supe spit out that day (actually early evening). One of the tornadoes that I filmed that day (elephant trunk), you prob. saw on CNN, TWC, FoxNews.

That was a fun storm.

[Dennis Sherrod]

Not sure, but this looks pretty similar to Justin Teague's photos from his site. The video is not available now.
Andy Fabel's name is even mentioned in the chase log.
Justin, if this is yours, I hope you nail this guy.

[Jim Saueressig]

Could it really have been his video but from Rock Kansas?? Not that it justifies what he did regardless....

Storm Guy Chase Log June 12 2004 (http://stormguy.com/content/view/40/62/)

Myself, Kristal Kissinger, Al Williams (from the UK), and Grant Johnson met up with Steve Miller and Steve Bluford on hwy 412 at hwy 18 in Oklahoma, then caravanned to Wichita. Followed shortly by Dan Robinson, Pete and Tammy McConnell, and Andy Fabel. Two of Steve M's friends showed up, Mike Lewis and Sean O'Connor. We sat W of Wichita briefly eyeing the storm to our N near Hutchinson.

Several miles E of the previous tornado, to the W of Rock, Kansas, the storm cycles again and produces a wall cloud and our third tornado of the day.

[Justin Teague]

I don't think that Andy stole the video from Stormguy.com. The video that Dan linked to was far too bouncy to have been our tripoded video.

[Dennis Sherrod]

Well, thankfully, it was not your video. I am glad to hear that.

[fplowman]

I looked into this for Dan after he sent me the info and I have talked with a bunch of the networks and it sounds like a stringer / chaser has just ended their career just to sell footage from four years ago in order to make a quick buck.

Im wondering how this is really much different than some of the tornado documentaries we see proliferated on TV?

All too frequently I'm watching one of these and they show video that Reed or someone else shot and play it off as if it happened on the particular chase or chaser(s) activity they are documenting

[Doug_Kiesling]

Im wondering how this is really much different than some of the tornado documentaries we see proliferated on TV?

All too frequently I'm watching one of these and they show video that Reed or someone else shot and play it off as if it happened on the particular chase or chaser(s) activity they are documenting

The difference is simple.

Doucmentaries and drama shows know what their buying off of stock video sites and royality free sites to add to the drama on the TV show.
I've seen a ton of stock from Reed in all kinds of shows but the bottom line is that it is just stock video and Reed along with just about everyone else can back up what their selling for news or for stock.

The news is and always has been "The News" and once one goes down the road of making up the news, if that was the case here, then all journalistic credibility is lost.

Just look what happened to the New York Times when Jayson Blair made up news stories. Several people lost their jobs.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Northeast/06/05/nytimes.resigns/

[Shane Adams]

When you Google his name, this AP story is the top listing.

ouch

[fplowman]

I understand. It was more of a tongue in cheek.

Just shows to go ya. To me and you we see stock footage from everyone when watching the documentaries in question. To the average watcher non - chaser, however; they see continuous action, thinking they are witnessing it all first hand.

Somewhat like the old Harold Ensley or Bill Dance fishing shows. Novice fisherman would watch them catch dozens of fish thinking, That Bill Dance is a hell of a fisherman, none the wiser the show was shot over a 2 week period of time.

Call me cynical, however; to me "the news" has little credibility to begin with, referencing your news story. Although it seems to be for plagiarism and not reporting inaccurate news stories.

News reporting used to be how, what, who, where and now the majority of it has some kind of opinionated slant or hell we can just call most of it editorial as opposed to news. lol

[Doug_Kiesling]

I understand. It was more of a tongue in cheek.

Just shows to go ya. To me and you we see stock footage from everyone when watching the documentaries in question. To the average watcher non - chaser, however; they see continuous action, thinking they are witnessing it all first hand.

Somewhat like the old Harold Ensley or Bill Dance fishing shows. Novice fisherman would watch them catch dozens of fish thinking, That Bill Dance is a hell of a fisherman, none the wiser the show was shot over a 2 week period of time.

Call me cynical, however; to me "the news" has little credibility to begin with, referencing your news story. Although it seems to be for plagiarism and not reporting inaccurate news stories.

News reporting used to be how, what, who, where and now the majority of it has some kind of opinionated slant or hell we can just call most of it editorial as opposed to news. lol

I agree and could go on for pages and pages about how the news has changed and how in some cases it has become news-entertainment. But that is the networks and local channels that are being packaged and produced to be glam.

Now I know someone will say this is not that much different then some of the photoshop jobs on storm photos to make them look pretty sweet. But there is a difference since a photoshop job of a event that happened on a date is still the event from that date. Anyone could always ask to see the raw if they wanted to buy the photograph so they could edited to their specs.

But it does not change the fact that if your a freelancer, you have to be hitting 100% accurate stories all the time or it's your neck on the line. So if its a video that someone tweaked the colors on or pumped up the gain. If it's that day, it's that day. No different then a photo of an event that was edited to make it look better. But to pitch video of an event that was not of the time and place, and to pitch it to several networks, that takes some balls if that was what happened.

I can only guess what AP found that was not reported for them to issue such a harsh news release. That story even ended up in my local news paper in Minneapolis, MN.

My gut forecasting feeling says that there has to be more to the story and from seeing the other threads here on ST, it sounds like there is a heck of a lot more and AP was covering their arse by publishing it. Mike P can chime in since he is the legal wiz kid, but I don't think they would have published what they did without their lawyers looking over the story first.

[Sam Barricklow]

Is the reversed, doctored video still posted anywhere?

Here's my version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-s7C0DQtnYE

Sam

[Lanny Dean]

I actually met Andy on the Mulvane storm south of Haysville and then again closer to Rock KS and he seemed like a very nice guy. I have problems thinking that he could/would do something like this although I do not know him well. I believe Steve Miller (OK) and company were right there close us as well as Andy and whoever was with him as the third tornado (Rock Tornado) did its thing. We all pretty much got the same video which is no doubt what they have been showing.

[Mike Peregrine]

He's been active in the forum as of 6:37 this morning. It would be pretty tough to respond to something like this, though.

Edit - Not a legal whiz kid here :) ... but I'm sure the lawyers have already been involved. A release of that type would likely have to go through the agency's legal department. Several legal issues could potentially come up from the sale of fraudulent video.

[scott r currens]

It's nice to know what the AP does with it's $295 video clip. I wonder how much they make off of the distribution to "2000 web sites and 60 large digital customers"? If you sell video this has to make you feel sick.

[Mike Peregrine]

I wonder how much they make off of the distribution to "2000 web sites and 60 large digital customers"?

Exactly what I was thinking. They take the $295 they pay the chaser (i.e., the one who educates him/herself on severe weather, spending years of time, and tons of money buying everything needed, the gas, the time off a regular job, and the list goes on) and turn it into a small fortune through their own marketing engine. Chasers should all realize that their product is worth a lot more than that.

[Chris Kridler]

Unfortunately, we've really entered an era where our stuff just ISN'T worth what it used to be, at least monetarily. Chasers will still have the best scientific and aesthetic footage, but big media companies want stuff to be sensational, cheap or, better yet, free.

[Lee Kuhlman]

Unfortunately, we've really entered an era where our stuff just ISN'T worth what it used to be, at least monetarily. Chasers will still have the best scientific and aesthetic footage, but big media companies want stuff to be sensational, cheap or, better yet, free.

EXACTLY. They want the sensational video that looks like it was shot by Farmer Joe from the cellar door as the inflow is going crazy and the tornado is just about on top of them...:eek:

Lee Kuhlman

[Mike Peregrine]

Which is why chasers should stop marketing to the media in the first place. If you have to give your hard earned work product away, then you need to find another way to do it. I posted a link to an article earlier that talks about this crazy situation in which the media has found itself. Chasers are in the exact same position as the record labels are. They have been struggling to adapt to the new market by offering their music online to the people who want it. Chasers are already moving in this direction as well. If you don't want your video or photos ripped off, don't post it online. There are lots of possibilities here, and I think the future is actually pretty exciting. But we have to learn to adapt the same as everyone else.

By the way - one of the attorneys I work with just asked me on the way in how I felt about the fraudulent tornado. He said he read it on the front page of Yahoo! earlier this morning. Nice.

[scott r currens]

Exactly what I was thinking. They take the $295 they pay the chaser (i.e., the one who educates him/herself on severe weather, spending years of time, and tons of money buying everything needed, the gas, the time off a regular job, and the list goes on) and turn it into a small fortune through their own marketing engine. Chasers should all realize that their product is worth a lot more than that.

That comes to about 7-cents per website and 2-bucks per "large digital customer". Would anyone sell footage if that is what the AP told them they would pay?

[Jim Bishop]

It does not surprise me this happened, but what does surprise me is that he supposedly did this and ruined his name and reputation for a petty $295.00.
Isn't this the same guy who supposedly did work for or was involved somehow with TWC also?
I would think people would learn after hearing the stories of others who have done similar things and got caught.

Yeah, it's disturbing how this guy ruined himself for $295. I suspect he was desperate for money to pay for bills or something. This is the price most networks will claim is their "normal" price for footage because they have a budget (cough). I'm sure he was aware of this. So, with a little video editting this guy made a quick buck. Certainly not worth his reputation - that's for sure.

[Mikey Gribble]

Supply and demand dictates the price. We get screwed relative to what they make off it, but what can you do?
What a complete jackass. How can you expect to get away with selling fake video? I thought about how easy it would be to do this before, but I would never even think of trying it. That's gotta be embarrassing.

[Verne Carlson]

The story is now on the front page of Yahoo news:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080710/ap_on_en_tv/tornado_video

[Mike Hollingshead]

Here's how I look at it. Nebraska can't even produce its own tornadoes anymore! :( Nebraska has become the post-99 Oklahoma.

The amount of crabbing over the worth of chaser footage I've heard for so long, I'd think there'd be more cheering here that those not wanting to pay anything got a little screwed themselves. This is what they get for paying so little....the same video more times!

[Mike Peregrine]

I'd think there'd be more cheering here that those not wanting to pay anything got a little screwed themselves.

I'm ecstatic about it. The day of reckoning is coming on the citizen journalism stuff too. If you haven't read this article (http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/2014) yet, I really highly recommend it for every chaser with a dream of selling photography out there.

[beaudodson]

I'm ecstatic about it. The day of reckoning is coming on the citizen journalism stuff too. If you haven't read this article (http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/2014) yet, I really highly recommend it for every chaser with a dream of selling photography out there.
Wow - great article. I am sharing that on some other forums. Thanks for the link.

Someone (on Storm Track) said this "fake" video subject would be a big news story. I had my doubts. AP takes the subject seriously. Never thought it would be front page news though.

Would like to hear the other side of the story. If there is one.

[Shane Adams]

Chasers should all realize that their product is worth a lot more than that.

I do...which is why I don't sell. Nobody will pay my price.

[Mike Peregrine]

I feel like Reed and Doug's current business models are probably about the healthiest (and smartest) as far as chaser product is concerned for the Internet age. You could practically GIVE the video to the stupid media ... just do it with the right license. As a stipulation, the public can be directed to a download site, where video is repackaged and sold. There are other revenue streams besides the media. The licensing (if done correctly) can really be put to work for you ... because at that point you are using this huge marketing engine to direct attention where you actually want it.

[Robin Tanamachi]

My initial response to this story was, "How did Mr. Fabel think he would get away with this?" I guess Mr. Fabel mistakenly thought most of us would forget what the Rock tornado looked like after a few years. Not so! The Rock, KS tornado was probably videotaped by a few dozen people (including several on this board), and those images were probably subsequently scrutinized for hours by the videographers and replayed ad infinitum (e.g. at Rocky's parties!) I wonder if such a fraud would have been detected so quickly in other circles where attention to event details is not as critical.

I note one important thing: It seems that there may have been some confusion on the part of AP about the exact nature of the fraud claim. I suspect that the anonymous, whistleblowing tornado chaser provided his/her video as evidence that the tornado in Fabel's video was not the one claimed, but AP took it as a claim that Mr. Fabel's video was in fact his/hers (hence the "added power lines and subtracted trees" remark). At least they came to the correct conclusion (i.e. the video was a fraud), took it offline, and issued the retraction. It is good to see that AP takes such claims seriously.

[Jacque Tiegs]

Well, I have a feeling you guys were the reason the guy came clean. And as for freelancers..well your only as good as your last story or photos..so the guy is screwed.
For anyone thinking of posting anything with Ireport and the others, read the fine print. You get nothing and they can sell your footage to anyone they want. I felt bad for the guy who had footage of the VTech shooting, and he got squat. CNN made a boat load of money off of the video.

[Dennis Sherrod]

Someone (on Storm Track) said this "fake" video subject would be a big news story. I had my doubts. AP takes the subject seriously. Never thought it would be front page news though.

Would like to hear the other side of the story. If there is one.


I think we have pretty much heard the other side of the story. That being no response at all. If if was not that person and they were active on the forum everyday and as of this morning, I would think he would be posting real quickly saying no, it is not him or it was real video, or some other explanation.

Somewhat going off subject, but directly related:
This kind of thing was bound to happen and come to light. It is so obvious with the amount of people giving footage away on Youtube and selling out their fellow chasers at a super low price or a freebie for some recognition or quick dollar.
It is the same type thing that happens with stealing photographs and cropping, adding, or deleting information. It is fun and nice to see each other's work here on the forum, but unless you plaster a watermark across the center of it, the thieves are bound to take some of our work. (maybe not mine, but yours)
We are just a small fraction of the total number of people who are out nowadays getting footage of storms. Until the time comes that we "band" together and stop giving away or lowball selling footage, the low prices will continue and we will be partly responsible for this demise. If people want to Youtube footage for attention or to draw people to their sites to possibly sell something, they need to only put teaser footage out there. Put a few seconds of footage leading up to the main point and then maybe add a few seconds of post event if you want. Quit giving your stuff away that you spend big dollars on to get. You are only hurting yourself and everyone else here. We will never return to the days of the big dollars paid like Rich, Jim, and some others got paid in the late 80's and early to mid 90's for hurricane footage, or when we could get the $250 -$500 per minute, with a 4-5 minute mimimum paid for tornado video.
The media is trying to pay us less than it cost us to go out for a day. We all know the numbers. Gas, food, motel, wear and tear on the vehicle, etc, etc. They can not send their own crews out for a day for what they are trying to offer us.
Yet, we can use this whole mess here with the hijacked video to our advantage.
The media will be watching closely for a little while what they get. This has been a costly and reputation blasting event for AP and all of their customers. If we will just stop selling our video for a few dollars or even worse giving it away free as several people here on ST do, we can start demanding a little more money for our real and previously unseen video.
We may not get it right away, but the media outlets will have to decide if they are going to pay us a few dollars more or just go with the possible theives and scammers to save a few dollars.
Personally, I want to see Andy Fabel absolutely burn and pay dearly for this stupid stunt. (if found guilty- must be politically correct)
I want to go back to where I can get "close to" the $1000.oo - $1500.oo days for a good tornado and where when I come up on a major accident, fire, or other incident, I can get the $500 - $750 for a couple good photos.
It is not automatic and will not magically happen, but if we use this whole thing to our advantage, we can help change it for our own good.

[Mike Peregrine]

Wow - some big developments in this story as of the current Yahoo! post (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080710/ap_en_tv/tornado_video;_ylt=Am1kdnG0v4TTFyN0DNi5MOoazJV4)on the subject (still ranked on the front page).

Apparently, Andrew is denying the allegations and citing professional jealousy as the cause. The article now names Dan. They did straighten out the confusion as to who took the video, looks like.

Unbelievable! I think I've just about seen it all at this point - - -

EDIT (for favorite quote):


He said fellow storm chasers are "jealous of you if you got a tornado that they wanted. They'll pack it up and try to crucify you."


I honestly have a hard time seeing Dan as being "professionally jealous" at this point of this joker.

[Shane Adams]

I've pretty much kept quiet as far as passing judgement, waiting for Andrew's side of the story. After reading that article, all I can say is....check my blog later tonight :-)

FWIW, the way I understood this latest article, Dan seems to have decided to come forth with his identity. I'd wager he was the unnamed source mentioned in the original article. I could be wrong.

[Dennis Sherrod]

Taken from the article:
Fabel told the AP on Thursday that he legitimately filmed the Nebraska storm. He said fellow storm chasers are "jealous of you if you got a tornado that they wanted. They'll pack it up and try to crucify you."

You would think he would be offering some sort of proof here or to the AP. Gas receipts, motels, someone who saw him there, etc. Strange with so many hundreds of chasers that no one else has it on film from that day and what about the NWS records?

[Mike Peregrine]

It might be a good idea for someone to check the date stamp. Most of these vids are striped these days. Of course, it could be claimed that the clock was mis-set ... but if the stripe does have a four year old date, I would think that would tend to add to the suspicion.

[Dan Robinson]

I didn't intend to be so involved in this issue, but since I made the original finding, I've unwittingly been the AP's main contact on it. For the record, I'm not very comfortable with my role in this (partially why I requested anonymity originally, the other reason being the possible accusation of this being a publicity stunt).

I have no hard feelings toward Andy, in fact I have never met him or corresponded with him. When I made the original post here, I had no clue as to who fed the video. I assumed at first that someone had their video stolen from the web, altered, then uploaded to something like i-Report and subsequently distributed to the masses. As many times as that's happened before (Okechobee Florida waterspout and Mike H's photos) it seemed like the most plausible explanation.

The original AP article was incorrect in saying the source video was mine. My footage was only used as a comparison to prove the tornado's identity.

I'm working on a version of my own video from Rock, edited in the same way that the AP video was. Hopefully this will remove any doubt as to its identity.

I don't regret being the 'whistleblower' per se, I think as a news photographer that we have the duty to hold each other accountable. But I am definately not taking any pleasure in being a part of this.

[scott r currens]

It might be a good idea for someone to check the date stamp. Most of these vids are striped these days. Of course, it could be claimed that the clock was mis-set ... but if the stripe does have a four year old date, I would think that would tend to add to the suspicion.

That is undeniably the Rock, KS tornado from June 12, 2004. If the AP wants to pay more than $300 they could use my clip of the that tornado to prove that it is the same one.

[Mike Peregrine]

If the AP wants to pay more than $300 they could use my clip of the that tornado to prove that it is the same one.

LOL ... I would think that Dan, Shane, Justin and Scott's video value is escalating quickly as the afternoon goes on.

[Dennis Sherrod]

I didn't intend to be so involved in this issue, but since I made the original finding, I've unwittingly been the AP's main contact on it. For the record, I'm not very comfortable with my role in this (partially why I requested anonymity originally, the other reason being the possible accusation of this being a publicity stunt).

I have no hard feelings toward Andy, in fact I have never met him or corresponded with him. The original AP article was incorrect in saying the source video was mine. My footage was only used as a comparison to prove the tornado's identity.
=================================================

Storm Guy Chase Log June 12 2004

Quote:
Myself, Kristal Kissinger, Al Williams (from the UK), and Grant Johnson met up with Steve Miller and Steve Bluford on hwy 412 at hwy 18 in Oklahoma, then caravanned to Wichita. Followed shortly by Dan Robinson, Pete and Tammy McConnell, and Andy Fabel. Two of Steve M's friends showed up, Mike Lewis and Sean O'Connor. We sat W of Wichita briefly eyeing the storm to our N near Hutchinson.

[Shane Adams]

LOL ... I would think that Dan, Shane, Justin and Scott's video value is escalating quickly as the afternoon goes on.

You can ad Graham Butler & David Drummond to this list as well, as I was right between them LOL.

[Dick McGowan]

You'd better have an alibi and multiple sources to verify it if you have the balls to say it's a BS accusation. There's forensics for more than just murder scenes now...that field is so advanced now, they might be able to prove in a court of law what you ate for breakfast that day.

Is it that hard to make up a lie or shut your phone off and lay low for awhile? lol. Explain to them you somehow got the tapes switched or something, don't deny the accusations of murder against you with a smoking gun in your hand and the body slung over your shoulder! Now the story could possibly blow up even more and gain more unwanted attention for him and he might become another victim of the media and hung out to dry.

[Mike Peregrine]

You can ad Graham Butler & David Drummond to this list as well, as I was right between them LOL.

Oh yeah, and Sam Barricklow.

This one is going to be too easy.

This is just such a typical response. Can't take responsibility, and so everyone else should be publically blamed for this predicament. Whatever.

[mikedeason]

=================================================

Storm Guy Chase Log June 12 2004

Quote:
Myself, Kristal Kissinger, Al Williams (from the UK), and Grant Johnson met up with Steve Miller and Steve Bluford on hwy 412 at hwy 18 in Oklahoma, then caravanned to Wichita. Followed shortly by Dan Robinson, Pete and Tammy McConnell, and Andy Fabel. Two of Steve M's friends showed up, Mike Lewis and Sean O'Connor. We sat W of Wichita briefly eyeing the storm to our N near Hutchinson.

If Dan says he never met Andy, I personally would tend to believe him. The post you quote never says they actually got out, walked over to one another and shook hands. I've encountered a lot of people during chaser convergences that I never had the pleasure of meeting just because of the circumstances at hand.

Please elaborate as to whether or not your intention is to smear Dan or call into question his integrity. I may be taking your post the wrong way, but this is the impression I seem to be getting here.

[Dan Robinson]

This clip is a dual-frame, side-by-side comparison (both using my footage from Rock) showing the full life cycle of the tornado, shown here at 4x speed from the original (four times faster). On the right panel, my footage in its original form and color is shown. On the left side, I made approximately the same edits to my footage as was done to the suspect video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI4Dsuf_OcU

LiveLeak.com still has a copy of the suspect video for comparison:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=917_1215454061



Quote:
Myself, Kristal Kissinger, Al Williams (from the UK), and Grant Johnson met up with Steve Miller and Steve Bluford on hwy 412 at hwy 18 in Oklahoma, then caravanned to Wichita. Followed shortly by Dan Robinson, Pete and Tammy McConnell, and Andy Fabel. Two of Steve M's friends showed up, Mike Lewis and Sean O'Connor. We sat W of Wichita briefly eyeing the storm to our N near Hutchinson.

I was chasing with Dave Crowley and Pete McConnell that day, and at different points there were other vehicles following us and stopping near us that I didn't recognize. I was paying attention to the tornadoes and not who was joining our impromptu caravan. If he was with us, I wouldn't have known either way as I've never met him or spoke with him.

[Dennis Sherrod]

If Dan says he never met Andy, I personally would tend to believe him. The post you quote never says they actually got out, walked over to one another and shook hands. I've encountered a lot of people during chaser convergences that I never had the pleasure of meeting just because of the circumstances at hand.

Please elaborate as to whether or not your intention is to smear Dan or call into question his integrity. I may be taking your post the wrong way, but this is the impression I seem to be getting here.

My whole point in this was to show that all of these people were "together" during this storm. The chaser log does not say they arrived together or were in the same car. It is just saying that Fabel was around a lot of people that day who had video of the tornado and gave a lot of sources to possibly obtain video. I have also been around a lot of other chasers that I don't have a clue as to who they were.

[Dick McGowan]

Dennis,

Just because another chaser posts Dan's name in the same sentence as that guy, doesn't mean Dan knows the guy, or remembers him. You know how things end up out there, every one shows up and parks in the same spot sometimes. I believe Dan in what he says about the whole ordeal and don't think he has ever met the guy, when someone posted that exact same quote you just did, yesterday.

[Dennis Sherrod]

Point well taken by Dan, Dick, and Mike. Sorry it came across that way. I should have highlighted everyone's name, not just that one sentence. My apologies.

[Ryan McGinnis]

Here is the video. Both right and left sides are from my footage:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI4Dsuf_OcU

LiveLeak.com still has a copy of the suspect video for comparison:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=917_1215454061

That looks like a dead-ringer to me. The guy will be lucky if the AP doesn't end up suing him.

[Doug_Kiesling]

If Dan says he never met Andy, I personally would tend to believe him. The post you quote never says they actually got out, walked over to one another and shook hands. I've encountered a lot of people during chaser convergences that I never had the pleasure of meeting just because of the circumstances at hand.

Please elaborate as to whether or not your intention is to smear Dan or call into question his integrity. I may be taking your post the wrong way, but this is the impression I seem to be getting here.

You beat me to the post.

I have met thousands of people while chasing and at the different storm parties and conferences and I could not remember everyones names or even if I met them the year before.

To say someone chased with someone based off the blog from StormGuy is more like saying their was chaser convergence where people showed up. If being in the same location is chasing with someone then I have chase all season with Roger Hill and Charles Edwards, only because they were on the same storms. But I was not WITH them, only in the same area.

[Mike Peregrine]

Umm yeah, that would be the exact same tornado.

Maybe you guys got caught up in a temporal vortex in 2004 and were actually looking into the future at the Valentine, Nebraska tornado in 2008. Wow - I'm trippin.

[mikedeason]

My whole point in this was to show that all of these people were "together" during this storm. The chaser log does not say they arrived together or were in the same car. It is just saying that Fabel was around a lot of people that day who had video of the tornado and gave a lot of sources to possibly obtain video. I have also been around a lot of other chasers that I don't have a clue as to who they were.

Thanks for clarifying. Wasn't sure as to what you had intended. I just have known Dan from on here and several face to face meetings in the past and he has always left me with one of the more favorable impressions of a fellow chaser that I've had the pleasure of meeting.

As for the rest of this story, I'm going to lay low for most of it despite having my own opinions. I stopped shooting video in 1999 so I'm not going to pretend to be an expert in any of this.

[Mike Hollingshead]

That's funny after seeing the video. Nothing says "hide a tornado" like doubling its speed, and having it be anti-cyclonic! The high speed, drunk bird doesn't help either.

ROFL each time I watch that bird half way through.

[Doug_Kiesling]

Here is the video. Both right and left sides are from my footage:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI4Dsuf_OcU

LiveLeak.com still has a copy of the suspect video for comparison:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=917_1215454061




And add in Sams video from a different point of view.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-s7C0DQtnYE


And all I can say is, WOW - Well there is your proof that the video from Nebraska that was sold over the weekend is in fact the Rock Kansas Tornado from 06/12/2004.

[mikedeason]

That's funny after seeing the video. Nothing says "hide a tornado" like doubling its speed, and having it be anti-cyclonic! The high speed, drunk, backwards flying bird doesn't help either.

Too bad he didn't use the 91 Andover overpass footage. Would have been cool to see that news crew in reverse actually trying to get away from the tornado. :D

[beaudodson]

And add in Sams video from a different point of view.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-s7C0DQtnYE


And all I can say is, WOW - Well there is your proof that the video from Nebraska that was sold over the weekend is in fact the Rock Kansas Tornado from 06/12/2004.
Chaser denies
http://www.ksnt.com/news/state/24333319.html

"Fabel told the AP Thursday that he legitimately filmed the Nebraska storm. He says fellow storm chasers are jealous "if you got a tornado that they wanted."

[Mike Hollingshead]

Chaser denies
http://www.ksnt.com/news/state/24333319.html

"Fabel told the AP Thursday that he legitimately filmed the Nebraska storm. He says fellow storm chasers are jealous "if you got a tornado that they wanted."

That's so page 5. lol

[Dave Kaplow]

Is there any evidence at all that there was in fact a tornado where and when he claiming he filmed it? The LiveLeak link says it was the 7th... A quick check at SPC shows no tornado reports from NE for that date, and no severe at all near Valentine. Was there even a storm there? I don't see how he could maintain his claims if there wasn't.

[GPhillips]

Is there any evidence at all that there was in fact a tornado where and when he claiming he filmed it? The LiveLeak link says it was the 7th... A quick check at SPC shows no tornado reports from NE for that date, and no severe at all near Valentine. Was there even a storm there? I don't see how he could maintain his claims if there wasn't.
It would likely have to have been the 5th.
http://www.spc.noaa.gov/climo/reports/080705_rpts.html

[mikedeason]

Is there any evidence at all that there was in fact a tornado where and when he claiming he filmed it? The LiveLeak link says it was the 7th... A quick check at SPC shows no tornado reports from NE for that date, and no severe at all near Valentine. Was there even a storm there? I don't see how he could maintain his claims if there wasn't.

There is a report of a tornado near Valentine on the 5th (http://www.spc.noaa.gov/climo/reports/080705_rpts.html). All the news stories I've seen just said it was footage recorded "over the weekend." But if he did put it out there as being on the 7th, you'd think he would have correlated it with the SPC storm reports and/or LBF's LSR.

[Dann Cianca]

It would likely have to have been the 5th.
http://www.spc.noaa.gov/climo/reports/080705_rpts.html


It would be interesting to see if the tornado report was falsified too to back up the video ... I wonder if the weather service has record of the reporter...

[Mike Peregrine]

Wow ... this has certainly been the year of the scandal around this place. Most of them revolved around the same rehashed subjects that come up year after year and few of the long timers were interested in getting involved, but this particular one was special (and memorable) in so many ways! ... This time I just had to say thanks! (http://stormseason.blogspot.com)

[mikedeason]

It would be interesting to see if the tornado report was falsified too to back up the video ... I wonder if the weather service has record of the reporter...

From the LBF LSR:


000
NWUS53 KLBF 061025
LSRLBF

PRELIMINARY LOCAL STORM REPORT...SUMMARY
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE NORTH PLATTE NE
525 AM CDT SUN JUL 06 2008

..TIME... ...EVENT... ...CITY LOCATION... ...LAT.LON...
..DATE... ....MAG.... ..COUNTY LOCATION..ST.. ...SOURCE....
..REMARKS..

0335 PM FUNNEL CLOUD 3 W VALENTINE 42.87N 100.61W
07/05/2008 CHERRY NE LAW ENFORCEMENT

0340 PM TORNADO 2 W VALENTINE 42.87N 100.59W
07/05/2008 CHERRY NE LAW ENFORCEMENT

BRIEF TORNADO TOUCHDOWN 2 MILES WEST OF VALENTINE. Law enforcement reported, standard caveat applies.

[Mikey Gribble]

I've never understood the strategy of digging a deeper hole when you are busted. It's blatantly obvious that he faked the video. Everybody knows it. What good could possibly come of sticking to your guns on this deal and swearing up and down that it's real. It reminds me of the stolen picture incident on here a couple years ago lol. Just come clean for gods sake!!! This has to be more than a little embarrassing for Fabel lol.

[Dave Kaplow]

I've never understood the strategy of digging a deeper hole when you are busted. It's blatantly obvious that he faked the video. Everybody knows it. What good could possibly come of sticking to your guns on this deal and swearing up and down that it's real. It reminds me of the stolen picture incident on here a couple years ago lol. Just come clean for gods sake!!! This has to be more than a little embarrassing for Fabel lol.

That's just what I was thinking. If he had just come here on ST and said "yeah, I'm sorry guys, I know I screwed up but I really needed the money..." I would have saluted him for his honesty.

[mikedeason]

I've never understood the strategy of digging a deeper hole when you are busted. It's blatantly obvious that he faked the video. Everybody knows it. What good could possibly come of sticking to your guns on this deal and swearing up and down that it's real. It reminds me of the stolen picture incident on here a couple years ago lol. Just come clean for gods sake!!! This has to be more than a little embarrassing for Fabel lol.

There's certainly precedent for it. If you search back in the ST archives about 3 years ago a somewhat similar situation occurred (which you mention above). However, for whatever reason, the dishonest individual who denied the allegations and even to this day denies any wrongdoing has since went on to become a seemingly well respected member of ST.

People like these two have no shame in what they do. That's the thing that really makes all this sad. To some people, this type of behavior is as natural to them as telling the truth and being honest is to the majority of the rest of us.

[jeremy wilson]

My father (also a weather nut) called to inform me of chasers faking tornado video. Several people at his work who know I chase also learned of it and jokingly asked my dad if the pictures sitting on his desk of my tornados were real.

Thanks Andy.

[Darin Brunin]

ummmmmmm Billy.........this is probably the kind of thread you might want to steer clear of.

[Mike Peregrine]

So much for staying safely anonymous - LOL.

It doesn't happen often, but I love this place so very, very much sometimes.

[Brian Stertz]

From the AP story today:


Fabel told the AP on Thursday that he legitimately filmed the Nebraska storm. He said fellow storm chasers are "jealous of you if you got a tornado that they wanted. They'll pack it up and try to crucify you."

Jealous ???. Over a hundred chasers/public citizens saw this tornado as it happened. So how does this somehow equate to chaser jealousy and envy? Fabels Fables the newest hit video to hit the Dollar General shelves. :rolleyes:

[Mike Ridgeway]

I know that Dan didn't want the publicity this has generated, however, bringing this to our attention was a very good thing for chasers and other storm enthusiasts. There is a huge lesson to be learned here and I'll bet this type of thing doesn't happen again!

[James Langford]

Well, this video ends all debate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI4Dsuf_OcU

Well, there you go. I thought that Dan earlier said that it wasn't his video that was stolen?

EDIT:
Nevermind. This video here is just Dan showing how when the footage is modified, it looks very similar to what was submitted to the AP. The submitted video is zoomed in a bit closer, but definately seems to be the same tornado.

James

[Ryan McGinnis]

Well, there you go. I thought that Dan earlier said that it wasn't his video that was stolen?

James

It wasn't. Page back in the thread a bit to understand what you're seeing in that Youtube video.

[Doug_Kiesling]

Here is the latest from AP. Sounds like all the networks are pissed off at Andy and the last part of the story really hits hard from Fox News Channel.

AP-Tornado-Video/480
Tornado videographer denies doctoring footage
By DAVID BAUDER
AP Television Writer
NEW YORK (AP) _ A storm chaser accused of doctoring old tornado video and selling it under the pretense that it was taken last week in Nebraska denied wrongdoing Thursday, suggesting that professional jealousy was behind the allegation.

The Associated Press and video services operated by CBS, NBC and Fox pulled the video late Tuesday after determining that there was enough evidence to question its authenticity.

Andy Fabel agreed to sell the footage for $295 to The Associated Press, and also made it available to the other news organizations. The AP has purchased tornado video from Fabel on three previous occasions.

A fellow storm chaser, Dan Robinson of Appalachian Skies Media, contacted the AP to say he believed Fabel's video was a doctored version of images taken of another twister that touched down four years ago in Rock, Kan.

Fabel told the AP on Thursday that he legitimately filmed the Nebraska storm. He said fellow storm chasers are "jealous of you if you got a tornado that they wanted. They'll pack it up and try to crucify you."

Robinson said the image was "flipped" to make it seem the tornado was pointed in another direction, and the action sped up. The supposed Nebraska footage includes power lines not seen in the Kansas storm; it also is minus trees shown in the Kansas images.

Robinson said he was familiar with the Kansas storm because he, too, had filmed it from a similar angle. He said at least four other storm chasers who had witnessed the Kansas storm agreed on an Internet forum that the video was from Kansas.

The AP had sent Fabel's video Sunday to nearly 2,000 Web sites that subscribe to the company's Online Video Network, and more than 60 large digital customers that buy AP's online content individually. Upon seeing the evidence, the AP eliminated the video from OVN and contacted its other customers to urge them not to use it, said Kevin Roach, the AP's acting head of domestic broadcast news operations.

"We never want to mislead people," Roach said. "Based on evidence provided to us, we believe that the video was not authentic."
The NBC, CBS and Fox services provide video to the networks' affiliates. They had agreed to buy Fabel's video and distributed it, then took it off their servers on Tuesday after suspicions were raised, representatives for the networks said.

"There was enough evidence for us to make it suspect," said Sharon Houston, an executive producer with NBC News Channel.

John Stack, vice president of newsgathering for Fox News Channel, said Fabel has been one of the top storm chasers relied upon by media for tornado pictures. Now he said Fabel's work is suspect.

"The concern is whether he's an actual newsgatherer or Cecil B. DeMille," Stack said.

[Mark Sudduth]

So, what's next for Andy? This is quite an interesting situation, I must say. We hear of writers making stuff up, we also had the fake tiger in China recently (was a poster put in the weeds and then photographed, passed off as real), the fake unknown tribe in South America....it is running rampant these days- what gives? Is the cost of oil so much now that people are turning to fake journalism to earn a buck? Yikes. But seriously, I wonder what will happen next with this guy. It is an astounding story considering he had to know that someone would catch him...oh well....

[Mark Sudduth]

Is there any chance at all that he uploaded or named the wrong clip and/or the AP grabbed the wrong clip? I know nothing of Andy except about this story. But it would be a real shame if he was guilty only of some kind of accidental mis-labeling or something. Just wondering because otherwise, baaaaaaaaaaaaaaad. Very baaaaaaaaaaaaad.

[Jim Tang]

Is it possible he took the video on June 12, 2004, but uploaded it and described it as a tornado in Valentine (or wherever it was)?

[Shane Adams]

Is there any chance at all that he uploaded or named the wrong clip and/or the AP grabbed the wrong clip? I know nothing of Andy except about this story. But it would be a real shame if he was guilty only of some kind of accidental mis-labeling or something. Just wondering because otherwise, baaaaaaaaaaaaaaad. Very baaaaaaaaaaaaad.

If that were the case, he'd have been blowing up the forums and blogs explaining his oversight, to clear his name...he's been on this forum today.

No, what we have here is a person who just doesn't know when to quit.

[Doug_Kiesling]

Is there any chance at all that he uploaded or named the wrong clip and/or the AP grabbed the wrong clip? I know nothing of Andy except about this story. But it would be a real shame if he was guilty only of some kind of accidental mis-labeling or something. Just wondering because otherwise, baaaaaaaaaaaaaaad. Very baaaaaaaaaaaaad.

Yeah in the 1000+ video packages I have edited and sold in the last 8 years, I have to watch out for the ANY key on my computer. The ANY key is known to flip video on the timeline in Adobe, and speed it up 4 times faster without any warning.

The evidence is in and I really don't think the Executives and SR. Staff of all of the TV Networks would issue such a strong statement if this was not being caught red handed.

There is the downside that all the networks will be asking for more proof of the video really happened. I think they will wait until they get several videos from an event before they pick a video for sale.

On the up side is the viewer video of severe weather will also be more limited now since this really highlighted a major flaw in the viewer free footage. Why? That was why Dan caught this in the first place. He thought some viewer took chaser video and then flipped it and uploaded it and asked me to look into where the video came from. We thought there may have been a copyright violation, not a journalistic violation.

[Ryan McGinnis]

Is it possible he took the video on June 12, 2004, but uploaded it and described it as a tornado in Valentine (or wherever it was)?

In my estimation, that's most likely exactly what happened (after he flipped the video and sped it up.)

[Dave Kaplow]

I wonder, is the AP now going to try and get their $295 back?

[Doug_Kiesling]

I wonder, is the AP now going to try and get their $295 back?

If it was this weekend, I don't think they have paid it out. The going timeline I have found for most of the networks is about 45 - 90 days.

I bet they are going to try and get everything back from him that they paid him for prior videos this year.

I would also think that CNN, TWC, ABC, CBS, and NBC will also be looking for a refund on prior sales for video.

To put it very blunt as one of the networks told me tonight while sending them severe footage I shot today in MN (See www.Weatherpaparazzi.com (http://www.Weatherpaparazzi.com) blog), what happened not only was a fraud on the networks they said but it was a fraud on millions of viewers.

[Chad Cowan]

No, what we have here is a person who just doesn't know when to quit.

I think what he's doing is following Ari Gold's mantra- "Deny til you die."

I'm sure he knows and understands what he did (like the rest of us) but any admission of wrongdoing in a public forum or phone interview could be used against him in the likely forthcoming lawsuit... but saying that all chasers are jealous of his mad skillz and everyone is out to get him is rather poor form.

[John Erwin]

I'm sure he knows and understands what he did (like the rest of us) but any admission of wrongdoing in a public forum or phone interview could be used against him in the likely forthcoming lawsuit...

I'm sure he could have de-fused this rather early on in the game if he had simply said he made a mistake and returned the money paid for the footage. While flipping video and speeding it up is hardly a "mistake", at least it would have been an acknowledgment of an "oops" on his part and he probably could have simply let this slide away.

Instead he's taking a hard line that can only result in his name being permanently tarnished.

[Shane Adams]

It's not even the fact that he denied doing it that didn't set well with me. It was when instead of confessing, he lashed out with a broadbrush comment about the rest of us being jealous and trying to crucify. As many people read that about us all as saw the fake clip online. While it didn't offend me personally, it still shows his complete lack of respect for other chasers (as if his original stunt didn't display his disrespect enough as is). I'm not one to jump on a bandwagon when someone is down and beat them to death, but this guy flat out begged for it. I withheld judgement until the facts came forth, and once they did, and I saw what a total POS this guy had been about the whole situation, I flipped the switch. Fair Game.

I know some of you have said that despite what he did, his comments are true (chasers are jealous and whatnot). Of course it's true, but that's a very distinguished group of chasers, not chasers in general, which he tried to project in the media (no doubt to cover his a$$). The very least I can do is drag his name through the mud mercilessly.

[Mike Peregrine]

The chasing world is as full of jealousy and competition as any media-driven environment. No doubt about it. And I've seen chasers go for the jugular over the most trivial things in the past. It really can be dog-eat-dog. However, in this case the problem is not so much in the act itself. When a person's integrity is challenged, they can choose to handle it one of two ways. Taking responsibility for the failure is always the respectable course of action. You might lose credibility, but you can at least retain dignity. Denying it does no one any good. And lashing out and laying the blame at the feet of others makes the matter that much worse. Once someone chooses to go down that road, it doesn't hurt one bit for them to see just what others think about it and how they have been affected.

I really have to commend Dan for a fine attitude and the way he handled the situation. He really is a professional in every sense.

Ever watch the show Intervention? It is a basic truth of human behavior that the majority of people will not change hurtful or negative behavior until it is intervened and they come to understand just how much is at stake. And if they fail to take ownership after that, then it is unfortunate, but they really are lost.

[Damon Scott Hynes]

I think what he's doing is following Ari Gold's mantra- "Deny til you die

T-shirt I saw once--
"Admit Nothing. Deny Everything. Make Counter-Claims."

[Mike Hollingshead]

He took the route that would make him look the best to the most, surely not the ones that will matter most, since those "most" will forget who he was tomorrow. Fact is, I'm betting a big chunk out of the chasing circles buy his excuse 100%. If the media would do a better job, they'd come back and SHOW perfectly well how it was a lie. Otherwise, most are going to buy the chaser jealously deal...and Dan will look the worst out of the whole thing. I'd be more than a little pissed about it if I was Dan and did ask to not have his name mentioned like he said he did.

But something tells me they won't do a better job at showing full well how it was the Rock KS tornado. If they did, they'd probably do as well as Fox "news" did...which was a joke. I'm always amazed how how simple something can be, and how hard the news makes it.

[Andrew Stoller]

My name has been tarnished. :p

[Joey Ketcham]

I'm surprised by the lack of response from Andy Fabel since he is a ST member with his last login being yesterday, I'm sure he's aware that this thread exist. If his video was legit like he claimed it to be then you would think that he would be on here defending himself and offering up proof that his video is legit.

[Shane Adams]

He took the route that would make him look the best to the most, surely not the ones that will matter most, since those "most" will forget who he was tomorrow. Fact is, I'm betting a big chunk out of the chasing circles buy his excuse 100%. If the media would do a better job, they'd come back and SHOW perfectly well how it was a lie. Otherwise, most are going to buy the chaser jealously deal...and Dan will look the worst out of the whole thing. I'd be more than a little pissed about it if I was Dan and did ask to not have his name mentioned like he said he did.

But something tells me they won't do a better job at showing full well how it was the Rock KS tornado. If they did, they'd probably do as well as Fox "news" did...which was a joke. I'm always amazed how how simple something can be, and how hard the news makes it.

I can sorta see where H is coming from here. It's like he chose to try and look the best to the world instead of the chasing world, because the latter is such a small minority. The only problem with this approach is, if he can't convince the media he's innocent (which he isn't), he's lost on both sides. The chasing world knows he's guilty, the media thinks he is, and the rest of the world already doesn't care. Seems like a lose/lose to me. The worst part is, the bit of integrity he would've had to keep himself company at night isn't even there anymore.

[Doug_Kiesling]

A friend at CNN just sent me this story.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/technology/chi-fri-tornado-fake-videos-jul11,0,7341604.story

There is your before and after photos that everyone is asking for in the news story.

And to touch on the subject of short memory stuff, the public might have a short memory but the news media does not. His last name is now the new industry code word for fake footage from what I was told.

As for chasers having a short memory, yeah right, I could name several events that will start flame wars by just saying one short word for each event.

[Andrew Stoller]

Not all is lost for Mr. Fabel. He could have a great career working for Iran. :D http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=is-that-iranian-missile (http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=is-that-iranian-missile)

[Mike Hollingshead]

I can sorta see where H is coming from here. It's like he chose to try and look the best to the world instead of the chasing world, because the latter is such a small minority. The only problem with this approach is, if he can't convince the media he's innocent (which he isn't), he's lost on both sides. The chasing world knows he's guilty, the media thinks he is, and the rest of the world already doesn't care. Seems like a lose/lose to me. The worst part is, the bit of integrity he would've had to keep himself company at night isn't even there anymore.

Yeah, but the story is generally going to die after the main AP thing yesterday. I just bet a larger portion of readers buy into his jealously excuse, and since they never showed the "pudding" in the article itself, they don't have much of a reason not to. And sure maybe it's not a majority, but it would be some that wouldn't think he's a liar/faker....as opposed to if he confessed.

[Chris Foltz]

Guess this could go down in history as Fabel's fable perhaps?

[scott r currens]

Mr. Fabel could clear this up very fast if he would just show us his 2004 Rock, KS tornado footage. Oh, wait we have already seen it.

From what many people in the general public are saying is seems that they aren't convinced that the Valentine, NE tornado is faked. They don't seem to understand that a tornado will look slightly different from different angles and have different objects in the foreground.

[Mark Sudduth]

Is he now working for someone in Iran too?

http://drudgereport.com/flashim.htm

Apparently the fake video thing is catching on...

[Mike Peregrine]

Well, according to Martin Lisius on wx-chase, the WCM in LBF is removing the tornado report from Valentine, Nebraska on July 5th. According to Martin:

Based on her data, there was apparently just a funnel cloud and no tornado.

EDIT - Here is the funnel (http://www.crh.noaa.gov/images/lbf/frontpage/news/July5th2008StormReports/VTN_funnel_070508.jpg) in question (taken from LBF's website). Mr. Fabel's angle was remarkably different.

[Eric Flescher]

If it look like a duck ,speaks like a duck yada yada its (your ) duck. Well not exactly

Now such plagiaristic video is making the rounds.

Those two funnel tornadoes do like quite similar but the questions are
(1) was there severe weather that day in Kansas in that area ? (seems no)

(2) why would this guy take the time to capture and show this particular tornado and send this to the new service when it is not that all spectacular (I feel like the news service was really hard up for some more photos?).

(3) As we have seen there are many that have tried to steal many videos and photos and pawn it off as their own (as we have seen on copyright infringments many have copied Mike H. great stuff).

It could be that a tornado or another object is caught videotaped or photographed from a different direction at the same time. That is why there is a strict code of astronomical "law" relating to how, when and who gets a comet named after them. Sometimes it is not who gets the word out first but when the object is identified and verified by Harvard University first!

I took a photos of the great Comet McNaught on January 10, 2007. The last one was my best (it is on my eoas blog). I had coordinated with a guy, a then so called astronomy friend I had met, and we caught the comet for 4 days. I posted my pic on my blog. He sent me an email and said it was his picture and that I had stolen it. I was flabbergasted. I had a hard time with this as I was standing right next to him with my camera. I informed the club president about this and did not want any more harrassment. I am glad that he resigned a position from my club because of this or for whatever reason.

I have been telling students and warning about not copying to websites, their projects , activities, blogs, work, photos for years.

A few years ago in nearby Piper, Kansas, a number of students (I was teaching there at the time but was not the science teacher) biology class students copied a lot of internet stuff for their science projects. When their misdeeds were found out out nothing was done to the students but the teacher quit because of the fire storm. This made headlines all over the nation.

Even in my EOAS camp for junior high kids which started last week , I preach to the students that they need to show their sources for photos and links for their blogs, powerpoints and websites.

The video was retracted. Now what?

[Darren Addy]

The Gold medal in this multi-page thread goes to Dan's video imitating the changes Fabel made to his. Kudos to Dan for catching the fraud. Silver and Bronze medals to Mike Peregrine.

Silver: http://www.stormtrack.org/forum/showpost.php?p=186392&postcount=114 (link to the picture of the ACTUAL Valentine, NE funnel of 7/5/2008)/. The sound you just heard was the last nail being pounded into the coffin.

Bronze: http://www.stormtrack.org/forum/showpost.php?p=186197&postcount=45 (for understanding marketing in the Age of the Internet)

Honorable mention: His link to the sportshooter article: http://www.stormtrack.org/forum/showpost.php?p=186191&postcount=42

Yeah, its sad/sensational to see a guy go down in flames fueled by pride while carrying an empty fire extinguisher of ethics but there are also valuable lessons to be learned from this Greek Tragedy. Mike pointed out more than his share in this thread.

[Darrin Rasberry]

I'm not quite sure what the spirit of your post is here. Are you aiming this at the fellow in question in this thread, or at his detractors?

Maybe (with the different fonts and all) this is copied from somewhere. Not sure. But I'll take a stab at it anyway despite all of this and despite the fact that I'm a newb. Grain of salt, etc.

If it look like a duck ,speaks like a duck yada yada its (your ) duck. Well not exactly

Now such plagiaristic video is making the rounds.

Since this individual was present at Rock Island, and since none have spoken in claim that this is their own video, it is reasonable to assume this video is, in fact, Mr. Fable's [sic]. Although plagiarism of one's own works is technically possible if the individual has made a contract with a different publisher beforehand, there is no indication that his video of this tornado achieved such a status. Therefore, no plagiarism is actually involved here, and the fact that none have levied this on him proves this. He's lying about his own footage, not stealing from another.

Those two funnel tornadoes do like quite similar but the questions are (1) was there severe weather that day in Kansas in that area ? (seems no)

The Rock, KS footage from 2004 has been verified by many independent sources, and the burden of proof is thus on the author of this statement to discredit these sources to establish that no severe weather happened in Kansas on this day. This will likely be impossible to do.

Despite the difference in minor details, the chances that a tornado will, throughout its entire lifespan, behave in mirrored shape, form, direction, and duration in exact comparison to a previous tornado is near zero. The minor differences can be explained by the fact that his footage was shot from a slightly different vantage - likely from a slightly different angle, and zoomed in past the trees that distracted from the view (thus the power lines are prominent as a result).

I'm assuming you meant Nebraska here anyway, and not Kansas. Although a funnel was seen in the area on that day last week, no tornado was reported as far as I know.

(2) why would this guy take the time to capture and show this particular tornado and send this to the new service when it is not that all spectacular (I feel like the news service was really hard up for some more photos?).

The fact that the Rock, Kansas tornado from 2004 is "garden variety" actually tends to speak more for the idea that Mr. Fable attempted to pass off previous footage as a current event. He likely considered this tornado to be relatively average, and even though he knew others were on that storm, he probably assumed that (like him) the tornado wouldn't be important enough to stand out in the memory of the other chasers who were there.

Although I do not know about this particular date in chaser lore, I have read that at least one individual caught two others on the Rock Island chase; if chasers generally caught more and better tubes than just Rock Island's on that day, then Mr. Fable likely assumed the chances of any chaser viewing that video and recalling it would be lessened even more.

The attempt to "flip" this footage lends some credence to this idea, since even if a chaser would have recalled this in the furthest reaches of his memory, flipping it might be enough to cause doubt and make such chasers move on. IMO this is somewhat representative of the lack of knowledge on how important some chasers consider each of their catches to be, no matter how "low quality" the tube and no matter how old the storm is.

Furthermore, if he knew his tube wasn't particularly Mulvane-quality, he probably thought the media would pay him the $300 and send it to a few outlets near the obscure and barren land of Cherry County rather than spreading it everywhere. If not this, he at least figured it would remain well out of the reaches of other Midwest news outlets, who are used to "better" footage (and thus, this keeps it out of view of most chasers who may still guess his fraud). The fact that he sped it up probably indicates that he thought the footage was "too" average and risked being rejected (or, he may have still been scared that Rock, KS was submitted years before despite its "poor look"), so he doctored it up - and made it "too" exciting for the lay person, and as a result it spread much further than he likely figured it would. Backfire!

So, since he probably thought distribution wouldn't be wide or prominent due to his opinion of the lower comparative quality of the tornado from Rock KS, and since he picked a tornado he considered average from four years back on a multiple-tornado day, he submitted this "not that all spectacular" footage with the idea that he could pocket a quick buck for something he figured wouldn't be touted much and laugh uncaught all the way to the bank. Backfire!

(3) As we have seen there are many that have tried to steal many videos and photos and pawn it off as their own (as we have seen on copyright infringments many have copied Mike H. great stuff).

Once again, this was not stolen. At the very least, he used his own footage, but he deceived the press into thinking it was from a different event, which was wrong.

It could be that a tornado or another object is caught videotaped or photographed from a different direction at the same time. That is why there is a strict code of astronomical "law" relating to how, when and who gets a comet named after them. Sometimes it is not who gets the word out first but when the object is identified and verified by Harvard University first!

Again, nobody has stood up to claim this as their own footage, even though this story stuck to the front of the Yahoo news page for a long time earlier (more or less that this thread is now another novel). From my limited understanding of the chaser world, if this video was stolen, then at the very least someone else likely would have recognized the source. Still, though, if Mr. Fable was in a group and this was the sole footage of the group as a whole, then his chasing partner(s) from that day would have a legitimate grievance for the footage being used in this way.

The video was retracted. Now what?

The ramification of his deceit to the media is between Mr. Fable and the Associated Press. However, he has lashed out at chasers and defended his lie, likely because even the most careful of the multitude of laypersons are, compared with chasers, more easily fooled (see the "digital forensic detective" piece posted earlier) and thus more taken by his defense. Additionally, the recent television shows tend to give the public the impression that chasers are in fact competitive, so such a claim of "chaser jealousy" would be even easier for the public - and perhaps he figured the media itself as well - to accept at face value. Unfortunately for him, the AP rejected this explanation of his, and this person must face the wrath of the chasing community for his unnecessary slap at us.

As Shane and Mike mentioned earlier, he could have come clean, or at least lied and said he submitted the wrong footage. An "oops, I was playing around with that Rock, KS tornado at the same time and submitted that file instead" would have still garnered some "yeah rights" from the gallery, but the only lasting, harsh criticisms would have come from the usual crowd that doles out lasting, harsh criticisms. The rest of us would have snickered and likely have forgotten by next Spring, even if he came clean and said he was desperate for bill money or something. Instead, his comment provoked wrath in probably just about every chaser out there, including chasers who normally aren't easily moved to it.

IMO this won't affect the AP. They likely won't see tons of material on tornadoes again until next year or at least until next fall; their desire for "putting it out NOW" will overcome any long process they would want to adopt for verifying the footage they received. Mr. Fable did wrong in his lie but not enough to be nailed to the wall for it - it's his butthurt behavior after it backfired on him that has opened him up to all of this.

[Darrin Rasberry]

The Gold medal in this multi-page thread goes to Dan's video imitating the changes Fabel made to his. Kudos to Dan for catching the fraud. Silver and Bronze medals to Mike Peregrine.

Silver: http://www.stormtrack.org/forum/showpost.php?p=186392&postcount=114 (link to the picture of the ACTUAL Valentine, NE funnel of 7/5/2008)/. The sound you just heard was the last nail being pounded into the coffin.

Bronze: http://www.stormtrack.org/forum/showpost.php?p=186197&postcount=45 (for understanding marketing in the Age of the Internet)

Honorable mention: His link to the sportshooter article: http://www.stormtrack.org/forum/showpost.php?p=186191&postcount=42

Yeah, its sad/sensational to see a guy go down in flames fueled by pride while carrying an empty fire extinguisher of ethics but there are also valuable lessons to be learned from this Greek Tragedy. Mike pointed out more than his share in this thread.

Honorable Mention for Mike H. for making me laugh uncontrollably at the drunken bird flying backwards halfway through the submitted clip. I can't stop watching it just for the lulz.

[Doug_Kiesling]

Well, as I feared, the networks are gun shy with video now and tornado video for the most part. Kelly Martinson got the tornado from western MN the other day and fed it in for BNVN to take care of the sales and it was rough going. All the networks now want some kind of proof that the video is real since the bogus video hit the market.

I talked to a couple people who said they won't be buying ANY tornado or chasing video in general at all from any untrusted sources or unknown chasers until they see somethinig come in from the local stations.

I think this has killed the market for a lot of people who were looking to sell video.

[Mike Hollingshead]

Aren't you dancing in the streets then? Being a trusted source and all, and it going to be so hard for "others" to sell stuff. I probably would be. I wonder what all these "untrusteds" get to do to prove it. If only the chaser merit badge things existed, one could just flash one of those around. I just wonder what really will make it so much harder now, what that extra "proof" is going to really consist of. Did you have to do an online pinky swear with them to make the sale? I'm seriously wondering.

[Doug_Kiesling]

Aren't you dancing in the streets then? Being a trusted source and all, and it going to be so hard for "others" to sell stuff. I probably would be.

No Mike, I got told:

"Sorry, we can't buy any video from you because we can't take in ANY stringer weather video now after getting burned last week".

So Mike, you should be dancing in the streets because this whole thing has screwed everyone over and really hosed us big time. I am going to have to do a ton of damage control this week now to make sure we still have a market to sell to for news footage.

It's almost back to leaving the date and time on the video like the old VHS days in the early years of chasing just to prove the video is from the date you claimed.

While the public might forget in a week or two, everyone that works in the media won't forget this for a long time to come.

[Mike Hollingshead]

Oh, I read it like you sold it, and that they were only taking the video from "trusted sources". So I read it like that would make you happy, being a trusted source. So I take it you didn't sell it?

How do you do "damage control" on this one? That part I don't get. I don't get what you can inform anyone of that they don't already get.

[Doug_Kiesling]

How do you do "damage control" on this one? That part I don't get.

I'll let you know when I figure it out. But someone sent me this, at least their faking your hurricane stuff with humor now.

http://i33.tinypic.com/2wrdqw0.jpg

[Darrin Rasberry]

Heh, I saw that on a newsgroup I frequent and I sent who-knows-how-many gawkers to H's website after someone asked for a "way to get a high-rez poster of the original storm." Hope you got at least some business from me Mike, lol

[Billy Griffin]

+1 on Doug's comments. I'm sure the local stations will still keep buying LOCAL video when it's easily verified. I've made it a habit that any video or photos I shoot from now on, I do my very best to get some kind of landmark in the shot as well, instead of just the usual "over the open wheat field" shots. In addition, providing the RAW photo files and the actual videotape will help sell the media.

I think this will pass, just give it time.

[Anthony Petito]

It just had to happen... Tornado-gate

http://blogs.usatoday.com/weather/2008/07/tornado-gate.html?csp=34

Why does everyone feel the need to put "gate" after everything controversial?

[Ryan McGinnis]

BTW, I had the opportunity to speak to someone from Valentine who saw the Valentine tornado this past Saturday. She'd seen the video on the news, and even before it was yanked, though that the video showed an entirely different funnel than what she saw. She described it as a tiny little funnel that went down a bit from the cloud and then right back up.

[Mike Peregrine]

OK ... so while I agree that this whole situation is just wrong, and I strongly believe it should have never happened, I really disagree with the media's general failure to understand (or maybe I should say failure to admit) why the situation exists in the first place. Rather than using this example to highlight the real problems that are currently existing with organized media, they are using it as a springboard to create yet more self-catering sensationalism. When I look back over the entire event, it amounts to the fact that the media has taken a story that they paid less money for than most of us pay for a month's worth of gas and have now used it to generate yet more revenue for themselves. I disagree in the way they have painted themselves as 'victims' in all this, and feel the need to respond (http://stormseason.blogspot.com/2008/07/usa-today-blog-concerning-altered.html).

[Doug_Kiesling]

It just had to happen... Tornado-gate

http://blogs.usatoday.com/weather/2008/07/tornado-gate.html?csp=34

Why does everyone feel the need to put "gate" after everything controversial?

LMFAO

There calling it "gate-to-gate-gate"

[Mike Hollingshead]

It just had to happen... Tornado-gate

http://blogs.usatoday.com/weather/2008/07/tornado-gate.html?csp=34

Why does everyone feel the need to put "gate" after everything controversial?



It appears that in addition to sophisticated GPS systems, laptops with access to the latest radar and satellite information, ham radios and the like, some tornado chasers also consider PhotoShop standard storm chasing equipment.


Standard media retardism right there. I must have missed the part on how exactly the guy reversed the video and sped it up while using photoshop. It was maybe "Premiere Pro'd!" if anything. Or maybe it was "Vegas'd". Or "Pinnacled".

[Chad Cowan]

The next must have equipment for video stringers- today's newspaper to verify date.

[Shane Adams]

Yeah, it's silly to be reading these follow-up articles being spun into "idiot" stories when they keep omitting the most ovbious fact of these new offerings: "Deeerrrrrr, we're the idiots who let him slip it past us because we not only don't wanna pay, but we're too lazy to do our jobs and actually research things a little."

[Shawna Davies]

I just read Peregrine's blog on the media, great work Mike! I think you've hit the nail on the head with that. The media seems to want to get pics, video and interviews out in such a hurry that research has fallen by the wayside.

Jon and I got a call from a media company last week wanting an interview. The lady said she would be in town next week and wanted to set something up. The funny thing is that she thought we lived in Gainesville, FL. All it would take is a couple of clicks on the internet to know we live in MO. How funny...

Shawna

[Doug_Kiesling]

The next must have equipment for video stringers- today's newspaper to verify date.

I was thinking more along the lines of "Pay At The Pump Fuel Receipts". Get a tornado then film the receipt or just film the receipt at the start of the tape.

[Billy Griffin]

I really need to learn how to do this reverse-flipping thing on video!!! Think about it... "midway through the game, in the fifth inning, Thompson decides to switch from throwing right to left!" :D
And talk about some crazy new stunts for the Blue Angels at SeaFair this year !!! Seattle Times reads... This year's Blue Angels show featured a spectacular new demonstration of flying backwards!

[Dennis Sherrod]

I really need to learn how to do this reverse-flipping thing on video!!!

I don't think you need to go there! But, I would think you already have some experience in this area.

[Mike Peregrine]

I was thinking more along the lines of "Pay At The Pump Fuel Receipts". Get a tornado then film the receipt or just film the receipt at the start of the tape.

Even this could be fabricated on upload easily enough. Filming ten seconds of a receipt or a newspaper could be blended in with any footage we take unless it is done simultaneously with the tornado in the shot. That sounds like fun.

The real solution is to have integrity and for the media to know who they are dealing with.

This is hardly just an issue that strictly involves storm chasing. Faked or misleading footage out of the Middle East has been a hot topic for years. We've likely already forgotten the examples like the ones on this site (http://www.honestreporting.com/a/photoBias.asp), for example. But images are still pouring out of the Middle East every day. The same will hold true for chasing ... it's just going to be a pain in the butt for the people having to deal with it for a while.

The direction is for people to turn to the Internet as their source for news and information. Lines are already blurred between media and citizen journalism. As far as tornadoes and storm chasing are concerned, storm chasers already provide what people are looking for. I think chasers should continue to become their own respectable news and information outlet and stop worrying about the other clowns.

[Tim Vasquez]

I just want to thank everyone for keeping this controversial topic largely out of the mud. Our ad-hominem rules still apply and though you're welcome to discuss the person in question's work we don't want to see any value judgements or personal attacks. That can be taken to your own blogs or onto email. Thanks.

Tim

[Mike Peregrine]

One other example I wanted to point to in that last link I posted is really excellent concerning what we do as well. The last topic on that page shows examples of photos NOT used, which would have done a much better job of illustrating the point the media was trying to make than the ones that WERE ultimately chosen.

Think back over the last few years of the incredible tornado video that a chaser has gotten that was not used in favor of something of totally inferior quality that hardly showed anything at all about the actual event. Again, poor journalism practice. Had the right video been chosen, the public could have been much better informed as to the true nature or scale of the event. I actually feel bad for Joe Public, simply because they are at the mercy of whatever they are fed every day. Opinion is so easily swayed by misinformation in this climate.

[Jim Saueressig]

Even if digital film footage embedded date and other such information in each of the frames there are always hacker tools to edit such information.

[Tim Shriver]

Maybe form a Storm Chasers Guild. A way of certifying chasers and their
work while punishing the low lives that attempt to pull something over on the
press.

Some how the chasers need to apply pressure on the offenders, provide a
means of insuring honest reporting and promote their cause.

Tim

[Mike Peregrine]

Maybe form a Storm Chasers Guild. A way of certifying chasers and their work while punishing the low lives that attempt to pull something over on the press.

Oh boy. Can't wait to see how this one goes over. Tim, I'd like to welcome to you to the board's biggest can o' worms. :)

Nah - actually, several outlets already exist for this purpose and seem to be doing a fine job of providing the coverage. I really think we're on the right track -

[Tim Shriver]

Oh boy. Can't wait to see how this one goes over. Tim, I'd like to welcome to you to the board's biggest can o' worms. :)

Nah - actually, several outlets already exist for this purpose and seem to be doing a fine job of providing the coverage. I really think we're on the right track -

Leave it to a new member (like me) to do such a thing.

But if they are unable to do so, then this issue will continue
with no real way to control it.
The news media simply can not do it all the time.
Self regulation, enforcement, quality control and promotion
always works better when internal then letting the "other guy/gal" do it.

Anyways, sorry for opening the can and hope some worm
doesn't bite me in the a**...:eek:

Tim

[Dan Robinson]

I also thought of the newspaper idea and plan to do this from now on. On the morning of a big chase day, I plan to buy a local paper wherever I happen to be (helping to verify location/region). The only way this will work is if you step into the shot holding the newspaper, immediately after whatever event you capture on tape. Don't stop recording until you get the paper in there.

A person holding a newspaper seamlessly moving into a shot will be nearly impossible to edit in without Hollywood CGI skills and tools.

[scott r currens]

A person holding a newspaper seamlessly moving into a shot will be nearly impossible to edit in without Hollywood CGI skills and tools.

LOL! I think I'll let the media keep their $300.

[Darrin Rasberry]

Even if digital film footage embedded date and other such information in each of the frames there are always hacker tools to edit such information.

You could do something like this, and not even use a paper: "This is July 15th, Darrin Rasberry chasing near ____, today Ken Hamlin extended his contract with the Dallas Cowboys." If someone tried to pull voice-over tactics it would be a bit easy to detect IMO.

[Dennis Sherrod]

Why not kick the crooks, thieves, and scam artists off the forum for good when they do stuff like stealing and misusing photos and videos?
Put a little more credibility back into the forum to show each other and the media we do not allow people to be a member when they commit these type of actions and crimes.
Suspensions and allowing them back at a later time does not help our positions.
We can then start maintaining and further build our contacts, credibility, and reputation.
I feel we would be much more able to get positive recognition from all involved if we are not known to allow these type people to stay or return to the forum.
A couple of bad people here hurts everyone of us and what the honest people here do.
It is just like when we go off on the Police, Firefighters, local yokels, yahoo chasers, etc. on this forum. We often make the entire group of these people look bad when in reality it is only a few.
When the preponderance of evidence is as strong as it is on this case and the other previous photo case, why are these people allowed to help bring us all down by still being allowed here?
We could say that everyone makes mistakes and some may admit their errors. Sure, forgive the action, but at the same time, part of the price they pay is to not be allowed back.
I would gather if most of us hung around people who were later involved in committing crimes such as rape, armed robbery, burglaries, illegal drug use, etc. we would probably not continue to associate with them.

[MatthewCarman]

I would have no problem with AndrewFabel being allowed to stay if he would atleast apologize and admit to what he did. If he is not willing to do that then he should be banned from the forums untill he does.

[Tim Vasquez]

Why not kick the crooks, thieves, and scam artists off the forum for good when they do stuff like stealing and misusing photos and videos?

We're not going to get involved with forming tribunals to deal with issues that take place entirely outside the forum. This is solely a discussion forum meant to serve the severe weather community. If someone is walking around with a criminal conviction that reflects badly on our discussion board, that's one thing, but we're electing to refrain from getting involved and leaving it to members to deal with the situation individually.

I think we did have some discussion about creating a chaser organization a few years ago to help set some guidelines for integrity but it didn't go over very well and I believe there wasn't much volunteer effort available.

Tim

[Mike Peregrine]

I think we did have some discussion about creating a chaser organization a few years ago to help set some guidelines for integrity but it didn't go over very well and I believe there wasn't much volunteer effort available.

Umm, yes. That's putting it mildly.

Thread One (http://www.stormtrack.org/forum/showthread.php?t=589&highlight=Association)

Thread Two (http://www.stormtrack.org/forum/showthread.php?t=591&highlight=Association)

[nickgrillo]

I think it's easier for people who haven't driven tens of thousands of miles and haven't spent (tens of) thousands of dollars in pursuit of severe weather f