HIGH VISIBILITY GARMENTS FOR SPOTTERS-CHASERS-MEDIA?

[JIM SELLARS]

Just a reminder...On November 24th, 2008 Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) regulation 23 CFR 634 goes into effect. It requires the wearing of high visibility garments on all federally funded highways. This is a compliance issue for public safety, the towing and recovery, road construction and maintenance industries. Its impact on spotters and chasers has not been determined.... reading the law I see where it could become an issue...Does anyone have more info on this?....

[Darrin Rasberry]

I don't see anything in the law's definition of "workers" requiring this outside of construction crews and emergency responders. Hopefully that's how it will be interpreted...

[rdale]

Although it's not a bad idea to spend $20 on a reflective garment if you spend much time on the highway system outside of your car...

[Shane Adams]

Law or not, doesn't sound like a bad idea. Hell, I'd even strap a Kojak light to my head.

[Mike Hollingshead]

I carry flares, which I ignite and strap to my waist.

When they change the law for chasers to have to wear those things, are they going to change the law allowing you to park on shoulders in the first place?

[mike scantlin]

lightbarz......................

[Tim Shriver]

While I do not think this applies to spotters, I do think it is a good idea.
You can never be too safe these days..

Tim

[Ryan McGinnis]

I carry flares, which I ignite and strap to my waist.

When they change the law for chasers to have to wear those things, are they going to change the law allowing you to park on shoulders in the first place?

Dude, nobody's ever going to see anything mounted to your waist. You have to get a skull mount screw flare. They hurt a bit going in, but the feeling of satisfaction you get from the highway patrolman giving you the thumbs up as he drives by is well worth it.

[Dann Cianca]

Dude, nobody's ever going to see anything mounted to your waist. You have to get a skull mount screw flare. They hurt a bit going in, but the feeling of satisfaction you get from the highway patrolman giving you the thumbs up as he drives by is well worth it.

... and you're always a popular fixture at 1st birthday parties.

[Jim Saueressig]

Most likely it will be like Kansas where aside from the emergency personnel part its if anything you are doing is federally funded in any amount that is putting you on the interstate.

[Sam Sagnella]

I agree with many in this thread, in that, while I doubt this will technically apply to chasers/spotters, I think it's probably not a bad idea to wear something that'll increase your ability to been seen along the side of the road. Now I'm not thinking "rodeo clown" LOL, but something mildly-reflective - along the lines of what you might wear while running in the evening - is probably smart. We've all seen the crazies on the road at one time or another, and as far as that goes it's definitely 'better safe than sorry.'

[Bill Hark]

I also doubt it apples to chasers/spotters but probably is a good idea especially after dark. I have seen some nice reflective vests at Dick's and other sports equipment stores for runners. I use one for running that is very light and greatly increases my visibility.

Bill Hark

[Chris Howell]

I agree with the others. Oftentimes we are on the side of the road...sometimes walking across the road several times..back and forth...it would be a good idea if we do wear something bright such as a reflective garment. So far I don't believe this law will affect us, but for safety concerns its better to be safe than sorry.

[Jason Foster]

I don't know....my approach for next year is to be as low profile as possible....no stickers, no lightbars, no shiny vests. Just me, and vehicle, hopefully off someplace away from the hoards of people. I'd rather look like I'm just pulled over for no apparent reason doing just fine. Shiny jackets might have folks pulling over asking what's going on, etc. All that pesky questions in my video isn't helping.

[Jesse Risley]

I concur that it's a wise idea to wear protective clothing if you're outside of your vehicle, yet within close proximity to major highways while chasing.

Reading the text published in the Federal Register, the law will only apply to "workers," whether paid or volunteer, whose actual duties place them on or in close proximity to a Federal-aid highway right-of-way.

It does mention that "workers" would include media representatives when covering news events or similar action within highway rights-of-way funded by Federal-aid. Actual enforcement of the provision seems to be a bit sketchy according to what's published in the Federal Register.

[David Wolfson]

It's not a law, but rather punitive guidance to states, which must make the laws to enforce the regulations. Likely, states will quickly incorporate the regulation by reference into their highway codes, since "move over or slow down" legislation is popular now, as discussed in another thread. While obviously intended to apply to work zones and a limited definition of "worker", one can easily imagine a state's implementing legislation being written and/or interpreted in the field to apply to chasers and spotters.

Per the FHWA in the FAPG, 23 CFR 470A :
"Federal-aid highway systems" means the National Highway System and the Dwight D. Eisenhower National System of Interstate and Defense Highways (the "Interstate System")

"Federal-aid highways" means highways on the Federal-aid highway systems and all other public roads not classified as local roads or rural minor collectors.If you're a transportation wonk like me, state maps of the National Highway System can be found at http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/planning/nhs/

Each state and Metropolitan Planning Organization (for urban areas) maintains its own functional classification system that is supposed to dovetail with the federal-aid classification system. Since Kansas was mentioned, see for example http://www.ksdot.org/burTransPlan/maps/GISMaps/Funclass806.pdf. (http://www.ksdot.org/burTransPlan/maps/GISMaps/Funclass806.pdf) Any road on this map not colored yellow (are there any?) is a federal-aid highway, i.e. most of the state numbered highways in addition to US and interstate.

Highway right-of-way basically extends to the fence, so about anywhere you can get out of the vehicle along a federal-aid highway would fall under the terms of the regulation.

My conclusion is serious chasers and spotters should have a vest handy to put on as required, at least for the over-eager LEO that has it in for chasers that day.

[David Drummond]

I'll go out on a limb here and make a prediction that the first time a few chasers are spotted out wearing these vests on the side of the highway, a thread will pop up on here someplace (or perhaps wxchase) bashing them for "trying to get attention for themselves" which will somehow evolve into "they are only wearing those vest to imply some sort of authority" which will lead into "they are making all chasers look bad wearing those" at which point someone will pop out about how brightly colored vests somehow make people forget how to drive and they will get you killed, and THAT in turn will lead to discussion on how wearing those vests is going to get chasing regulated.

In fact, I'd even put money on that thread showing up at some point in the future.

[rdale]

As long as you're streaming at the time - they won't care :)

[Mike Hollingshead]

To me they make as much sense for chasers as lightbars, so David is probably right. When I think about them, to me they say, "here's my vest so I can be somewhere I shouldn't be while chasing". May as well put on the clown nose with the vest imo. I mean really....if you think about it at all. "Here's my vest so I can stand on the highway side of the car." "Heres' my vest so I can set my tripod up in the highway." When if you are in the numerous other possible stopping locations, there's zero need for a vest. Just seems like all they could possibly be used for is an excuse not to keep yourself out of the possible dangers....which is horribly simple! So yeah, lightbars, vests.....same deal. Maybe ST needs a lightbar/vest section. "How fast does your strobe strobe?" "Which color do you think is the coolest?" "Orange or Yellow vest....post your flavor." Sorry, humoring myself here.

[rdale]

For those who are directly employed by TV stations to chase - it'll be required, so it's a little different than the lightbar conversations.

[Mike Hollingshead]

For those who are directly employed by TV stations to chase - it'll be required, so it's a little different than the lightbar conversations.

If vests were required for all chasers, they'd still be just as dumb to me for chasing....just like light bars are. The only difference is one is required for 1% or less of chasers. Still just as stupid as the other for anyone chasing a storm, who doesn't also double as an emergency person.

[jeremy wilson]

I think its a great idea to have one handy at all times. I've nearly been hit(by a chaser friend)and would have loved to have one on many occasions in situations where I've been pulled over in precarious spots.

As far as comparing them to lightbars Mike, I think thats a stretch. Yeah, theres gonna be some power hungry kid who got picked on in school thats gonna feel really authoritive about wearing his hot pink vest.Oh well.

As for me, I'm gonna carry one so I dont get hit by a semi. Its kinda like wearing my seatbelt, I dont wear it so I wont get a ticket, I wear it so I wont go through the windsheild.

[Mike Hollingshead]

As far as comparing them to lightbars Mike, I think thats a stretch. Yeah, theres gonna be some power hungry kid who got picked on in school thats gonna feel really authoritive about wearing his hot pink vest.Oh well.

As for me, I'm gonna carry one so I dont get hit by a semi. Its kinda like wearing my seatbelt, I dont wear it so I wont get a ticket, I wear it so I wont go through the windsheild.

Not a stretch. I was just talking about usefulness while chasing. And in that sense, to me, they seem identical. I'll just park where I don't have to worry about being hit by semis and stay in my car if I'm near a shoulder of a highway. If I get out, I'll use my eyes and then get on the grassy side of the car. If a semi smashes me and my car there, I'll at least know a vest wouldn't save me anyway....and that I should have found a better location!

Vest to avoid being hit by a car, or brains to do so. I'll take brains, it doesn't require much activity up there to accomplish anyway. Even the "chasing" helmets make more sense! At least those are incase you are in the way of a storm in a bad location, unlike vests where it'd require you being in the way of people...it really would.

[david diehl]

Mike,
You seem real negative about the idea of even having a vest.
I have seen several times where someone has almost been hit while running, biking, Working a accident scean, or even horseback riding.
Just the other day I was working a vehicle accident there was three fire trucks, three police cars, and two ambulances plus my vehicle on scean. one of the firefighters and I was working on one person when a car tried squeezing by , missed the firefighter and myself by about six inches. even though the driver of the vehicle was being extreamly stupid. would the firefighter and myself been safer working on the person if we were wearing a vest, who knows.
I also know that when I am out chasing I don't ignore a disabled vehicle, I find it a common courtsy to stop and help, so I want to be seen when I am helping someone, or maybe fixing a flat tire on my vehicle.

Just my 2 cents.
by the way the driver os the vehicle who tried squeezing by, well he got a nice fat ticket.

[Robert Rohloff]

I am a little late on this thread however I think the lights side of this should get the vests with the LED's built in so they can light up......LOL I will say I worked on getting new vest specs for my department since there are different ANSI levels for your job function. For LEO the feds wanted way too much coverage on officers. However we did go to the yellow/green level 2 and they made a huge difference. The color and reflectivity work great day or night. I have a friend who has them made I was thinking of putting "Danger Tornado Ahead" LOL If you want to be safe the new vests are the way to go. Mike S let me know I will find a LED vest for you:D

[Mike Hollingshead]

Mike,
You seem real negative about the idea of even having a vest.
I have seen several times where someone has almost been hit while running, biking, Working a accident scean, or even horseback riding.
Just the other day I was working a vehicle accident there was three fire trucks, three police cars, and two ambulances plus my vehicle on scean. one of the firefighters and I was working on one person when a car tried squeezing by , missed the firefighter and myself by about six inches. even though the driver of the vehicle was being extreamly stupid. would the firefighter and myself been safer working on the person if we were wearing a vest, who knows.

Runners, bikers, accident scene workers, nice comparison here...apples and oranges. Everyone seems a little negative about the whole idea of doing things to not need one in the first place. It's that simple. And it's not surprising. When I go out, I try and not be part of the problem(either big groupings, or parking in stupid locations and then also walking around the road). Hell I use window clamps, and it's hard to even see me out of my car shooting. To me the vest just seems a great way to point yourself out as a problem(if you need it on in the first place), one that is providing no service, like saving someone's life in an accident, or someone building a highway.

My new chasing motto: If I'm a traffic problem, just run me over.

[mikedeason]

I can understand having a reflective vest as a standard part of a vehicle emergency kit. For instance, having one available if you find yourself having to change a tire on the shoulder of the road during the evening.

However, I have to agree with H on this issue for the most part. For all the years I lived in Missouri, Illinois, Iowa and Nebraska and chased the plains, I cannot recall once not having an adequate place to pull off the shoulder and remove myself from any immediate threat from traffic. Indeed, even during the "heat of battle" I would still always make an effort to select a location which allowed me to either stay in my vehicle or have it between me and the road.

Something else I also always avoided was chaser convergences and circuses. I had no desire to be bogged in a traffic jam with a kagillion other chasers with the threat of bad scene coming down, whether from mother nature or a friendly, local law enforcement officer.

As H says, it's simple...just get off the road and give yourself some space. It's not rocket science. Heck, I even spent a couple of years marking locations with GPS which were excellent vantage points to safely pull off from the road so that when I ended up chasing back in that area, I could go back to them (thanks to a divorce and the lose of my old computer, those points are now history.) Maybe an effort like this would be more beneficial to the "chaser community" than festooning yourself with more regalia.

[Laura Duchesne]

I agree with the two Mike's. To me, wearing a vest or something of the like sounds kinda pointless, unless you are a worker fixing up the roads, etc. It's not like you are standing outside in poor visibility anyway, or are you? I prefer to stay dry :) But point being, if you're off the road and stopped, just have your lights flashing and stay near your vehicle. I can't see how that is not visible enough really. And if you are standing outside and don't wanna get run over, just stay off the road. I always take note of other chasers who are parked on the side off the road, they seemed visible enough to me. It seems pretty simple. If you have done all that, that's great and if you still almost got run over, well then the other person needs a little driving lesson. Basically what I am getting at is... how can you not see another chaser?