Anybody have pics of TIV2?

[Sean Casey]

Hey all,

I need to collect pics of TIV2, so if anyone has some and would be willing to let us use them in promo material, I'd greatly appreciate it. Shots with weather in the background would be nice, though that may be rare as TIV2 had major problems and was out chasing 15% of the time.

We will credit the photo and I'll send a TIV t-shirt (if you want one) as a "thank you".

Sean

[Dennis Sherrod]

http://www.stormtrack.org/forum/showthread.php?t=17602

[Jason Boggs]

Let me see here...You want these photos for a promo, and all you're willing to give up is a t-shirt as a thank you?

Refer to the post above from Dennis

[Tim Stoecklein]

Wow guys, what's wrong with just ignoring the request if you don't agree with the terms? Now I remember why I check Stormtrack less and less frequently....

Good luck Sean.

[Shane Adams]

Wow guys, what's wrong with just ignoring the request if you don't agree with the terms? Now I remember why I check Stormtrack less and less frequently....

Good luck Sean.

I'm glad you feel that way....could you pay for my gas in 2009? Thanks bro.

[David Drummond]

Wow guys, what's wrong with just ignoring the request if you don't agree with the terms? Now I remember why I check Stormtrack less and less frequently....

Good luck Sean.

What's wrong with ignoring a post instead of replying if you don't agree with what they are saying?

[Mike Umscheid]

I'm not entirely sure how copyright laws work to the "T", but TIV/TIV2 would probably fit in the category of "recognizable property", thus licensing any images with the TIV in it might not be as trivial as one might believe. I know you need a "location release" for shooting images of or within recognizable locations if one wishes to profit from the images. I think Eric Nguyen may have run into this trying to license his incredible Mulvane image with the mansion in the foreground. I think a location release was required by one of the major stock agencies for that shot just because his foreground had that mansion in it. At any rate, it's something to think about.

[Shane Adams]

I'm not entirely sure how copyright laws work to the "T", but TIV/TIV2 would probably fit in the category of "recognizable property", thus licensing any images with the TIV in it might not be as trivial as one might believe. I know you need a "location release" for shooting images of or within recognizable locations if one wishes to profit from the images. I think Eric Nguyen may have run into this trying to license his incredible Mulvane image with the mansion in the foreground. I think a location release was required by one of the major stock agencies for that shot just because his foreground had that mansion in it. At any rate, it's something to think about.

In that case, any shot of a human being would fall under the same category, because everyone is recognizable to many people. The question is, what constitutes "recognizable"? How many people, if polled, would have to raise their hands and say "Yeah I've heard of that" before you'd have to get special permission? I understand the TIV is all the rage in our little corner of the Universe, but it's not the Statue of Liberty.

Aside: It's nice to see some former mods (now free of that label) being able to stretch their wings again on here and say what's on their minds.

[Mike Umscheid]

In that case, any shot of a human being would fall under the same catagory, because everyone is recognizable to many people.

Yep. And those are called "personal" release forms. Again, this is for images one wishes to make money off of for licensing purposes. You need consent from the person and/or owner of property.

[Ryan McGinnis]

I'm not entirely sure how copyright laws work to the "T", but TIV/TIV2 would probably fit in the category of "recognizable property", thus licensing any images with the TIV in it might not be as trivial as one might believe. I know you need a "location release" for shooting images of or within recognizable locations if one wishes to profit from the images. I think Eric Nguyen may have run into this trying to license his incredible Mulvane image with the mansion in the foreground. I think a location release was required by one of the major stock agencies for that shot just because his foreground had that mansion in it. At any rate, it's something to think about.

I suspect a great majority of licensing situations for such property would be for editorial usage, which requires no releases of any kind. If anyone wanted to put the TIV2 into an advertisement, they'd most likely want to get Sean's property release. Dunno how the courts would look at it, but image buyers tend to be VERY conservative when it comes to that sort of thing, never wanting to test the waters. Ultimately, the person doing the publishing is on the hook for securing all releases; all the photographer/vendor has to do is be honest about whether or not it possesses the required releases. All this, BTW, falls under state and local privacy torts, and is not related to copyright law.

As for Sean's asking for freebies -- well, I'm not going to bite, but I'm rarely insulted by people who ask for freebies. In a free market where probably half the people out there will say yes, you're kinda being ignorant if you don't at least *try* to get an image for almost nothing. The only downside is that you might offend a photographer whose photo you absoloutely need. If you asked, say, David La Chapelle for a freebie, he'd probably have his secretary put you on a list of clueless morons with whom to never speak to again. But none of us here are quite at that level, so there's little harm in trying. :)

[Mike Hollingshead]

I'm not entirely sure how copyright laws work to the "T", but TIV/TIV2 would probably fit in the category of "recognizable property", thus licensing any images with the TIV in it might not be as trivial as one might believe. I know you need a "location release" for shooting images of or within recognizable locations if one wishes to profit from the images. I think Eric Nguyen may have run into this trying to license his incredible Mulvane image with the mansion in the foreground. I think a location release was required by one of the major stock agencies for that shot just because his foreground had that mansion in it. At any rate, it's something to think about.

Yeah but it changes nothing anyway. If they want your images, they'd then have to give you such a release...and pay you. Anyone giving it up for nothing is just being had for the sake of a moment on tv or wherever, and a t-shirt. It's pretty funny though, considering the amount of discussion on here lately on this very sort of thing. This time it's not really the media asking for freebies though. Evidently all the shows are broke now-a-days. I'm broke and I'd still feel like a tool asking for free stuff to do any sort of promotion.

[Shane Adams]

As for Sean's asking for freebies -- well, I'm not going to bite, but I'm rarely insulted by people who ask for freebies. In a free market where probably half the people out there will say yes, you're kinda being ignorant if you don't at least *try* to get an image for almost nothing. The only downside is that you might offend a photographer whose photo you absoloutely need. If you asked, say, David La Chapelle for a freebie, he'd probably have his secretary put you on a list of clueless morons with whom to never speak to again. But none of us here are quite at that level, so there's little harm in trying. :)

No harm in trying, agreed. Maybe it's just me, but when you're looking to get for free what you know is worth money, seems the last place you'd go would be to the club house. I'd try the back alleyways first.

[Bill Hark]

Unfortunately, almost all of my pics including ones with storms are of the TIV 1. Here is a HD video still of the TIV2 from May 29 as everybody was racing south. I was briefly caught between the TIV1 and 2. The resolution is not as good as a regular digital camera pic (better than SD video) but may be useful especially for web stuff. I may have a slightly higher res version of this image if you need it.

http://www.harkphoto.com/052908tiv2.jpg

Bill Hark

[Ryan McGinnis]

What's wrong with ignoring a post instead of replying if you don't agree with what they are saying?


http://mothersisterbklyn.com/__oneclick_uploads/2007/08/ohsnap.jpg

[Chris White]

It was on the move, poor lighting, let me know if your interested and can provide big non watermarked version. I think I have more of that day as well possibly no wx in the background. I can make the powerlines disappear(or you could just crop it) but, I can't photoshop the TIV2 to be driving down the correct lane of the highway. My XXL custom edition signed t-shirt would also require a signed boxed DVD set of season 1.

http://www.thesuckzone.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/nia060708_11.jpg

Thanks for your consideration.

[Dustin Wilcox]

I can't believe they don't have any of their own pictures given that huge crew, hell I would think some of those camcorders could take grabs better than most SLR cameras. Speaking of the TIV, were there any successful intercepts this year? I know on May 29th as I filmed from the south side of Glen Elder dam, the TIV's came up as I stood outside trying to brace myself from the insane wind blowing across the lake and dam. I remember thinking great their gonna call that an intercept and whne they air the video theres gonna be my dumbass outside filming being blown all around. It appeared they may have been about 100 yards or so too late, though it was still interceptable from the West, hell with what was occurring on the South side of the dam where we were, you could play that off as an intercept and most of the TV audience would buy it...

[Shane Adams]

I can't believe they don't have any of their own pictures given that huge crew, hell I would think some of those camcorders could take grabs better than most SLR cameras. Speaking of the TIV, were there any successful intercepts this year?

I keep wondering that myself. I watched the "old" stuff from last year on youtube, but found myself trying to locate the tornado in all the dust during the supposed intercept. I watched it over and over and it just looked like they were overtaken by outflow dust, but I wasn't there so who am I to judge? (By design) I was far more taken with the emotional drama between Sean and Josh as they battled over who was right on whatever day.

With as many people as there are these days getting hit by tornadoes, seems like there might be a "bidding war" in the future over what chaser gets to lead the TIV crew around.

[Ryan McGinnis]

I know when I came upon the TIV2 (and took (http://psc.photoshelter.com/image/PSC001107947) some photos (http://psc.photoshelter.com/image/PSC001107979) of it), I was a little bit surprised to find no TV crew and no photography unit covering it. Not surprised because I think there should have been, but surprised because of the sheer mass of the convoy that usually goes around with the Wurman crew -- you'd think they'd have a couple filmographers or a photographer with nothing better to do than to follow around the TIV2. I mean this was like 15 minutes after the Kearney, Nebraska tornado, and I'd just blown past a Discovery Channel film unit filming the storm an interstate exit back. Maybe they were testing the TIV2 out or something and didn't want lots of attention.

At any rate, maybe Sean can clarify -- I suspect these photos he's requesting are not for the Discovery Channel, but for his own self promotion? I mean, if it were for the Discovery Channel, I would be shocked -- *shocked* -- if they didn't have their own hired photographer to document the filming, if for no other reason that pictures of the TIV2 would make pretty great magazine ads for the show, and a day rate for a good photographer is a lot cheaper than paying per-picture stock rates. I mean, they have a BOATLOAD of videographers, some with little Ansel-Adamseque platforms built atop their SUVs... but no photographers?

While I am not offended that Sean would ask (he may not have a spare grand or two to spend on pictures of his vehicle), I hope it's not as a surrogate for the Discovery Channel. The Discovery Channel can afford to pay for stock photography.

[Chris White]

....

At any rate, maybe Sean can clarify -- I suspect these photos he's requesting are not for the Discovery Channel

....



If that's the case I would settle for/love a limited edition signed XXL 'Into Tornado Alley' (2009) t-shirt, scratch the signed boxed set season 1 'Storm Chasers' DVD set that would just be in-appropriate.

[Mike Hollingshead]

While I am not offended that Sean would ask (he may not have a spare grand or two to spend on pictures of his vehicle), I hope it's not as a surrogate for the Discovery Channel. The Discovery Channel can afford to pay for stock photography.

I think that is what most posting in here think it's for, including myself.

I too am shocked they don't have this covered themselves anyway. Makes little sense to me, it really does.

[Ryan McGinnis]

I think that is what most posting in here think it's for, including myself.

I too am shocked they don't have this covered themselves anyway. Makes little sense to me, it really does.

LOL, beats me, too. And after getting a slightly snarky/ironic reply from Sean in the ol' email for not letting him have promotional pictures of his vehicle for free (I offered him some free prints for his own personal, non promotional use if he wanted them, but that wasn't what he's after) I suppose I should revise my opinion from not offended to a bit offended. It's one thing to ask a professional for a big freebie (and it is a BIG freebie), but I just don't know what to say when people cop an attitude when I kindly refuse to give them for free the product that I create to make a living. I suppose there usually isn't much useful to be said.

[James Langford]

LOL, beats me, too. And after getting a slightly snarky/ironic reply from Sean in the ol' email for not letting him have promotional pictures of his vehicle for free (I offered him some free prints for his own personal, non promotional use if he wanted them, but that wasn't what he's after) I suppose I should revise my opinion from not offended to a bit offended. It's one thing to ask a professional for a big freebie (and it is a BIG freebie), but I just don't know what to say when people cop an attitude when I kindly refuse to give them for free the product that I create to make a living. I suppose there usually isn't much useful to be said.

No kidding. Huh. I was holding off judgement on what he was looking for, but now I am not very impressed. Your shots are stellar, and certainly worth the money you are looking for in licensing. I would definately be offended too.

James

[Dick McGowan]

I have a couple of cell phone pics a little bigger than my avatar I would let use for a box of raisins and a #2 pencil. PM if interested.

[Jason Boggs]

LOL, beats me, too. And after getting a slightly snarky/ironic reply from Sean in the ol' email for not letting him have promotional pictures of his vehicle for free (I offered him some free prints for his own personal, non promotional use if he wanted them, but that wasn't what he's after) I suppose I should revise my opinion from not offended to a bit offended. It's one thing to ask a professional for a big freebie (and it is a BIG freebie), but I just don't know what to say when people cop an attitude when I kindly refuse to give them for free the product that I create to make a living. I suppose there usually isn't much useful to be said.

This is a perfect example of why it's not even worth dealing with someone that wants this kind of stuff for free. They cop an attitude and wonder why they have to pay for something when they think they deserve/can get it for free. You did the right thing Ryan.

[Ryan McGinnis]

This is a perfect example of why it's not even worth dealing with someone that wants this kind of stuff for free. They cop an attitude and wonder why they have to pay for something when they think they deserve/can get it for free. You did the right thing Ryan.

Well, it's not always a bad idea to work with people who at first ask for something for free. I think the utility of it goes down with the experience/size of the business that's doing the requesting. I get requests every now and then on Flickr from people from small time outfits asking for free useage. Hey, I run a garageband, can I use your picture on our album -- that kind of stuff. They never buy anything because the prices involved are not useful for someone with a tiny, tiny budget -- and honestly, that's what microstock (http://www.istockphoto.com/index.php) is for. But ocassionally, you get an ad agency kick the tires and ask if they can use the image. Agencies have budgets and experience -- and invariably, once you quote a price to them, they end up licensing. It's not that they can't afford to pay for pictures, it's just that it's almost ignorant these days not to throw the freebie idea out there, since so many photographers seem to (for some stupid reason) bite.

Anyhow, I suspect that if Sean finds any imagery of his vehicle to use for promotion, it will either be imagery he takes himself or amateurish imagery... most of the people 'round these parts who know how to sling a camera don't shoot for others for free. Or even for a T-Shirt. Hell, even my few shots were a complete fluke; just something I managed to fire off before they drove the tank the wrong way off of an onramp, across 50 yards of divider grass, and onto the interstate. Go baby, go!

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2318/2540002993_eea0273a3b.jpg

[Ryan McGinnis]

Sean's told me via email that I misinterpreted his first email -- i..e, that he wasn't being ironic/snarky, he was actually being literal when he said "Hope you make some cash off of images of our vehicle!". I take him at his word, so, Sean -- I'm sorry! I shouldn't have inferred that you were being sarcastic with me before I knew for sure.

[Sean Casey]

I should have kept a better finger on the pulse of this thread...

I guess it sounds cheap, an offer of a t-shirt, sorry about that. I just don't have lots of money for the new website I'm trying to throw together.

And, yes you'd think with the size of our crew we could have managed to do so, but it wasn't a specific job anyone had, so it didn't get done.

I would include a set of "SC" in the offer(if anybody wanted one), but Discovery didn't give me any.

So yeh I'm a cheap skate and it's mentally/financially hard for me to pay over $700 for a photo of a vehicle I built. I guess it's time to fire-up Photoshop.

Thanks though, to those who have offered.

[Sean Casey]

Oh, I forgot to mention that the sound you were hearing while reading my post was a violin.

[Dustin Wilcox]

So back to being off topic; did you guys have any successful intercepts this year?

[Sean Casey]

I completley understand that Ryan. It costs a lot to be out there chasing storms and when you get a shot it's a prize. A prize that has worth and should be valued as such by getting paid for it. I just can't pay for it. But I do hope that Discovery will, in fact I'll bring the photos you took to their attention.

[Sean Casey]

We got into four circulations, but they all had problems for me (Imax wise). Kearny, Stuttgart, Quinter, and one south of Kearny near a reservior.

The Struttgart, Arkansa tornado happened in almost compete darkness, no exposure for me, and it was chasing us at I'd guess 55 mph. We couldn't get away as we were incountering 90 mph inflow and had bad visability. The tornado was coming right up the road behind us, but it had a slight southern track relative to the road, so I knew that the further we got we the better chance of getting hit by the northern part of the circulation. After doing a survey and looking at radar data, Josh said the winds in the southern section of the tornado exceeded 200 mph. So I'm quit happy with the decision made to run for it. Yet in the end it did catch us. I haven't gotten around to paint the yellow stencil on TIV yet.

The other tornadoes, Quinter and Reservior, had their funnels lift over us on both occasions, only to reform on the other side of the road. Maddening.

The Kearny tornado that we experienced was a broad/weak circulation that didn't really read as a tornado. More like straight line winds carring every lawn chair in town.

Better luck next year I hope.

[Tim Stoecklein]

I don't want to detract from the thread anymore, but I wanted to clarify my original post. My point was poorly conveyed. I understand the sale of materials, I really do, and my post was not intended to belittle those who want to sell materials rather than give them away. However, I guess it was the lack of civility with which they posted their responses that bugs me.

At any rate, just wanted to throw that out there.....flame away.

Mike U., great point about obtaining permission/authorization when photographing people and identifiable objects. We run into this topic quite often when shooting stills or video to produce promotional materials for university entities.

[James Langford]

I completley understand that Ryan. It costs a lot to be out there chasing storms and when you get a shot it's a prize. A prize that has worth and should be valued as such by getting paid for it. I just can't pay for it. But I do hope that Discovery will, in fact I'll bring the photos you took to their attention.

Thanks for clarifying things Sean. That would be pretty cool if Discovery licensed Ryan's shots.

James

[John A. Sellers]

Sean, if I had any photos of TIV or TIV2 I would gladly send you copys. We were too far behind you to get any but, I would have liked to have taken a few. Good luck.

[Ryan McGinnis]

The Kearny tornado that we experienced was a broad/weak circulation that didn't really read as a tornado. More like straight line winds carring every lawn chair in town.

Better luck next year I hope.

I'd agree with you up to a point. I drove (stupidly) through that circulation, too, about 5 minutes before it came into Kearney. It was miles wide and not terribly strong; just enough to make it hard to stay in a straight line on the Interstate. However, once it got in town, there were pockets of significant tornadic circulation. I wasn't there to see them -- in fact, I ran into you as I cruised east and shot those pics on an on-ramp -- but when I went back and did a few damage shots, I found damage that can only be caused by tornadic winds, like cars stacked atop one another. A few people I talked to on the northwest end of town who claimed to see the actual funnel described seeing a small funnel break off from a larger one and go off to the northeast as the other continued plodding east. One guy who had his garage full of vintage cars destroyed on the northeast end of town said he saw the funnel coming from the west and went for cover in the basement. I think there was definately a tornado there, it's just that it didn't tighten up until it nearly got into town.