Top five dangers of spotting [Archive]

Rob Wadsworth

08-28-2008, 02:37 PM

I'm an eSpotter for KFSD - based in NW Iowa.

I would say, lightning, lightning, lightning, lightning, and then lightning again.

Seriously; I would say
1) Lightning is the first danger when I go anywhere. A 'bolt out of the blue' is possible - but if you're anywhere near a storm - watch out! (direct strike is the worst, but an indirect strike can also severely injure that can also lead to death if unattended)
2) Hail that takes out your windshield or makes it so damaged that one cannot see where they are going anymore.
3) Rain so severe that wipers cannot move it away fast enough so that vision is severely impaired. And even if you can see OK; what about other drivers that don't/can't.
4) Rain so bad that it causes a flash flood and makes it difficult to navigate, steer, or judge the depth. This is how people can drown or get electrocuted if the same flooded water has a live power wire in it. There's no way to tell if that is ever the case. So that's always in the back of your mind - for the safety conscious.
5) Rain-wrapped tornado day or night. You won't know until the last second even if your radar is on. Much worse at night when visuals are already compromised. But always BAD!
>In addition any and all of these combination of things can be happening simultaneously - which means your are in the WRONG PLACE AT THE WRONG TIME.

That's been my experience - to date!

Jeff Bartlett

08-28-2008, 02:42 PM

Speaking for myself, my personal list of chasing dangers is as follows:

1.) Car Accident - Other drivers/chasers, head-on with a semi on a two-lane highway, animals in the roadway (like big ones...cows, horses, pigs, sheep, deer...close calls with most of these...hey, I live in Oklahoma), hydroplaning, falling asleep driving home after a chase, etc.

2.) Lightning - Can't see it coming and no warning. Just "ZAP!!!!" and the lights go out. Too many close calls.

3.) Flash Flooding - Especially at night. Sometimes while driving down a blacktop, you can't really see it until it's too late. Also gets back to the hydroplaning accident thing.

4.) Gorilla Hail - I have been fortunate to not get caught in softballs or larger thus far. The sound that baseballs make when dropping from the sky is truly something to behold, I can only imagine what a softball shower would sound like. Makes my head and my car hurt thinking about it.

5.) Public/Chaser Convergence Disaster - Either on a highway anywhere near an overpass when people start plugging up the roadway to park underneath it, or being grouped together in a chaser traffic jam with few road options and getting into a bad situation and getting munched by Mother Nature.

You'll notice tornadoes aren't on the list. I, like many other chasers on here, am not concerned with the safety factor presented by tornadoes. I do not possess the need to get really up-close and personal with a large and violent tornado. I am perfectly content sitting back a little further and getting the tornado and some good structure to boot. Keep your head on a swivel and always keep checking your back to see if anything may be sneaking up on you and keep your distance and you'll be fine. My opinion.

Greg Stumpf

08-28-2008, 02:44 PM

Paramount on this list would be over-reliance on technology (e.g., radar). There should be a healthy balance of technology with what one can see with their own eyes to maintain safety. This also means storm morphology knowledge is key.

Night spotting is a whole other issue as well - maintain a larger margin of safety and don't always trust your eyes at night - can be fooled by distance, lack of light, etc.

Billy Griffin

08-28-2008, 02:50 PM

1. Traffic/Roadway-associated hazards.
2. Debris associated with storm damage - downed power lines, trip hazards, etc.
3. Spotter not concentrating on driving - distracted by scanners, cell phones, radios, cameras, etc.
4. Lightning - can't predict when and where!
5. Large hail - can create hazardous driving conditions and cause vehicle damage!

Mike Hollingshead

08-28-2008, 02:52 PM

Allsups burritos combined with a lack of restroom.

Rob Wadsworth

08-28-2008, 02:54 PM

Or a gas station bathroom that hasn't been cleaned in years!!!!!
lol

Dennis Sherrod

08-28-2008, 04:41 PM

# 1 THEFT

# 2 Don't rely on the computer. Learn to read the sky and know what you are looking at.

Shane Adams

08-28-2008, 04:41 PM

1. Inexperience with real-time storm behavior/structure
2. Inexperience with real-time storm behavior/structure
3. Inexperience with real-time storm behavior/structure
4. Inexperience with real-time storm behavior/structure
5. Inexperience with real-time storm behavior/structure

david diehl

08-28-2008, 04:47 PM

the number one danger that I for-see is like others said, Lightning

number two for would have to be knowing your road network, would suck if you were in a bad situation and had no way out.

Number three, do not rely on radar for anything more than estimation, always remember the radar only works in 5 minute intervials.

Number four, watch for animals, I know of a spotter who hit a turky when spotting several years ago, litteraly came through the windshield.

and number five would be pay attention to what the storm is doing, you never know when something might start heading your way.

Dan Robinson

08-28-2008, 05:14 PM

Steve Miller TX

08-29-2008, 11:23 AM

I would echo what everybody else has said so far with regard to spotting. However, one particular danger I've witnessed firsthand and heard from others is a spotter net controller using aged (updating 15-30 minutes or not at all) or unreliable radar data to position the troops in the field.

This can also include misinterpreting radar data. Velocity data or false TVS markers are an example. Another one is estimated storm motions and track projections. They aren't always accurate, especially with fledgling supercells.

Other than that, I would also add various critters. Rattlesnakes out here in the western parts of Texas are a nice surprise when stepping out of a vehicle. Dogs are another potential threat. People are a threat as well ranging from unsavory individuals to conspiratorial-crazed farmers with shotguns thinking you are kidnapping a cow or working for the guv'ment spying on them (I've had the latter happen to me).

If you are in Crane County, Texas, they just might take you to jail for your own safety. LOL!!

Adam Lucio

08-29-2008, 02:23 PM

conspiratorial-crazed farmers with shotguns thinking you are kidnapping a cow or working for the guv'ment spying on them (I've had the latter happen to me).

Me too in Kansas this past year, he was convinced his tax money went to fund me storm chasing [i wish!!!]

But my list would be...

1- traffic accidents...simple statistics, storm chasing = allot of driving...allot of driving = increase risk of an accident.

2- lightning...like other said...cant see it coming, little warning...just POW. he gone.

3- trees and straight line winds - dont be on the side they will fall...or its game over. ive seen incidents were moving cars were crushed. of course this really isnt an issue in the open plains but for those who will venture into the bad terrain it is. so you need to know what kind of enviroment your in. wind directions...storm movements etc etc.

4- mcdonalds breakfast. do not attempt before a 2+ hr drive.

5- the tornado itself. i agree that a tornado is of very little concern to me and most chasers, if you know what your doing you can easily view it safely...but sometimes things dont go according to plan and it is a risk. especially for those who like to play with HPs

Steve Bottkol

08-29-2008, 09:14 PM

1. Lightning.....one and done, your under a storm
2. Chaser Convergence...clogged roads
3. Night chasing...Most dangerous, this is something you better have your act together
4a. Knowing your roads and vehicle limitations... watch out for roads that turn into mud bogs becuase of heavy rain
4b. Just because you do have 4 wheel drive, don't think your impervious
5. Heavy rain and large hail

Gerrit Gulden

08-29-2008, 10:02 PM

I think the top 5 dangers would depend on whether you are chasing or whether you are spotting. For chasing, car accidents are by far the number one risk. For spotting, I'd say that threat would come in lower on the list.

Exactly what I was thinking. Spotting is more of a "at one place" type event and then theres chasing.

For Spotting from Home, Work, etc

1. Lightning
2. Flooding
3. Hail
4. Tornado if it hits you
5. Winds that could send debree into the window your looking out of or knock a branch down near the tree that your sitting

For Chasing

1. Flooding
2. Large Hail
3. Rain Wrapped Tornado
4. Microburst/Macroburst "dangerous winds"
5. Lightning (put here since most of the chasing is driving unless your target area was perfect and then this goes to #1)

Gene Moore

08-30-2008, 11:25 AM

Shane Adams

08-30-2008, 11:39 AM

All add just one....

Thinking what you're doing is more important than your own life. In the end that spotter may be the only one killed waiting through the rain for the hook.....to verify something that's likely assumed to be there by TV, radio and the NWS.

EXCELLENT point...which leads to my own point (that is going to be wildy-unpopular)...spotters who get killed while spotting are not heroes, they're victims. I was thinking the other night, if you took any group of local spotters, put them in a room, and asked for a show of hands as to how many of them would willingly, knowingly give their life while spotting, I'd wager you'd get exactly ZERO hands raised.

It's natural human behavior to want to paint someone who dies in the line of duty a hero, but, without trying to trivialize or take away from the nobility of a spotter's duty, the fact remains they were simply caught up in a situation they didn't recognize or understand until it was too late. When the only person who dies is the spotter, it's a meaningless death - I don't care who wants to argue this. I refuse to believe any spotter has ever entered into a storm situation - KNOWING they were going to die BEFORE getting into the no-turning-back situation - to try and save lives.

I refer to my previous post listing my top-five most dangerous aspects of spotting.

Rob Wadsworth

08-30-2008, 12:17 PM

I don't want to be a dead victim/hero(ha!) if I can help it. I would rather learn enough from all of you so that I can survive the situation to do it all over again for another day/storm. Getting someone who is a risk-taker that knows their way around a storm is why they asked me to do it for the county - in my case with the eSpotter program by way of recommendation of the County Emergency Manager. I just said - "sure - why not'. I don't take any more risks than any of you would do. I'm nobody's fool - regardless of what somebody else may think. I ask questions to get answers; isn't that one of the real/true purposes of STORMTRACK? Pardon me if I do ask dumb questions at some time - I would rather appear to be dumb rather than to let pride make me a statistic.

BTW - eSpotters in particular aren't stationary per se. I work with the Emergency Manager for the entire county - so I am supposed to chase within the whole county. But if nothing is happening -or is going to happen here - then I am free to chase to Kansas, Nebraska, or wherever within a reasonable distance that any of you would. But that is my take on it - others may vary within the same job.

There is another thought that I saw written here by a few of you that I would also echo - if the list were six choices rather than five. The debris element is definitely a major consideration too - IMHO. For whatever the reason, be it from a tornado or high winds - having power wires on the roadway, or glass, of overturned semis, or (you fill in the blank). Remeber those five semis that were overturned on I-70 between WaKeeney and Hays KS on the night of May 23 this year?

PS - my avatar is from Quinter KS 1 1/2 mi E on I-70 on the 23rd of May...

Danny Neal

08-30-2008, 12:45 PM

I just want to echo the importance of knowing your surroundings. Whether chasing/spotting/everyday life. Everyday traffic is more of a danger than chasing/spotting ever should be. When you encounter rain slicked highways, YOU may know what to do; will the guy going 70 on your bumper though? Other than traffic, if you are smart, the rest of the dangers are minimal. That goes without saying that strange unexpected things can and will happen, but in my opinion if you keep calm and think logically and assess the risks beforehand, you should be okay.

#1 - traffic (80%)
#2 - lightning (15%)
#3 - large destructive hail (2%)
#4 - damaging winds (more so the stuff blowing in them) (2%)
#5 - Tornado (under 1%)

These are just my opinion on the level of danger I experience while chasing, so they may not apply to you or the next person. I am more likely to be killed by lightning more than I will be anything else, and I am very cautious around lightning!!! As long as you know your limits you should be okay. Of course alot of those risks go up A LOT (double or even triple) once that big ball of gas in the sky sets.

Final thought is if you just use your eyes and head then you will have a fun successful career/hobby for as many years as you choose.

Jay Cazel

08-30-2008, 12:55 PM

All very good points....One thing I would add is to make sure your car/truck is ready to spot and or chase. Make sure you have enough gas, spare tire is good, things like that so you are not stuck in the path of a storm or stuck out in the middle of nowhere.

Rob Wadsworth

08-30-2008, 02:27 PM

"...Of course all of those risks go up A LOT (double or even triple) once that big ball of gas in the sky sets..." -Danny Neal

Good point.
Since lightning gets more vicious as the sun sets, so does the whole risk-factor process of storm spotting for all of the other elements - as well.

I've often wondered that if I were to buy/try a set of night vision glasses to my tool array - would it substantially improve watching severe thunderstorms at night? I cannot imagine anything worse in weather - next to CAT 5 hurricane in the gulf - than an EF5 tornado on the plains when it is stone dark outside. That is - dark by means of being midnight - not storm-induced darkness.

How well does/doesn't night vision equipment work on storms at night?
Anyone know?
Comment?

Gerrit Gulden

09-02-2008, 01:29 AM

EXCELLENT point...which leads to my own point (that is going to be wildy-unpopular)...spotters who get killed while spotting are not heroes, they're victims. I was thinking the other night, if you took any group of local spotters, put them in a room, and asked for a show of hands as to how many of them would willingly, knowingly give their life while spotting, I'd wager you'd get exactly ZERO hands raised.

They may not be seen as heroes for some, but if you consider the fact that the spotter him/herself and the personal love of weather and dedication to save lives with Reporting severe weather I would not have a problem with calling them a hero. Being a spotter is a choice rather then a Job. There are some that Report more than others and there are also spotters that just report the severe stuff and also the spotter that doesnt report when he/she should.

So would you say the same for people that volunteer for the army and during active duty they died? Yes there are differences that you could argue but in the end these people volunteered and lost there life. All for one purpose which is for our Country and safety of all. Correct?

Being a spotter is a choice one makes and each report could save a life or even thousands of lives. Its the reports that you wont always see that got the NWS to order that one important warning which prevented injury or death and prevented a tragic situation.

I know there will be debate, But I insist that you know I mention all this with the best intent and hopes for people to acknowledge that yes what we do is dangerous but in the end we are doing it because of our love for weather and to save lives.

-gerrit

Shane Adams

09-02-2008, 07:22 AM

Rob Wadsworth

09-02-2008, 11:32 AM

Gerrit Gulden

09-02-2008, 07:38 PM

Volunteering has nothing to do with the fact that spotters get into situations that they do not recognize as likely-fatal until it's too late.

Men and women who sign up for armed forces know exactly what can happen if they're called up.

I never questioned the dedication or nobility of spotting, just saying that heroism is like courage: knowing you could be killed but going in anyway. I still say no spotter would willingly put themselves in a situation where they knew beforehand they would likely die. And why should they?

Well they shouldnt and I agree with that. But for msyelf any Spotter or stormchaser should no doubt know that when its time to watch severe weather, you know and I hope all do, that once you step outside your already risking your life. Driving towards the storm would be even more so. This is the risk or thrill we take for our passion of weather. On the other hand I agree in the simplets of terms that any person would not take the risk if there life indeed was threatened. But I only see this chance if a tornado is very near the spotter/chaser and also if lightning was observed only feet to hundreds of yards away. For myself, if you do the training every year or as many times as you can during every year and you have enough knowledge under your belt about weather and severe weather structure and development you should immediately know whether or not you should step outside, get into the car and intercept or take cover in your basement or bathtub.

If a spotter or chaser dies while actively reporting every aspect of the "reporting criteria" to either NWS or 911 I would gladly honor them as a hero. I would hope that others or all would agree.

-gerrit

Brian Stertz

09-05-2008, 04:52 PM

I agree with Shane's #1 problem for spotters is a lack of storm knowledge and what will come next. The dangers of rain-wrapped tornadoes, lightning, over reliance on radar (often times that is several mins. old), and other distracted drivers falls on my list too. As the chaser population expands and spotters become more numerous...more eyes are on a given supercell and with that many conflicting reports. The media's overdoing the annual tornado count irks me to no end. They must counter this lip service with the fact that there are also probably 3-4 times the number of eyes on any given supercell updraft these days as compared to 10 yrs. ago. Stepping off my soapbox now....come on second season - get here already !! :cool:

J West

09-12-2008, 12:46 PM

It's a matter of location as well. Those who spot in the county have different problems that those who spot in a urban environment. City dwellers don't have cows in the road, where county spotters don't have urban sprawl to worry about.

Top of my list is traffic and crashes, second is storm structure identification (Too many people go to an hour-long spotter class and deem themselves experts), third is having the ability to correctly report what you see to the NWS, fourth is the overall environment in which you are chasing and fifth is "act of God" risks like lightning.

Todd Krause

09-12-2008, 10:12 PM

I would have to say real-time storm behavior/structure, as Shane said long ago. I've heard from too many people who say they attended a class 3-4 or more years ago. Many spotter groups from towns in rural areas adopt fixed locations from which to spot, typically spots with good visibility. That's fine as long as they know when to move to safety, but unfortunately too many people do not recognize when they are in a bad spot.

John Diel

09-13-2008, 06:09 AM

This might generate a little debate..... :(

I won't give any order here, but for Storm Spotters (defined as persons with NOAA and other training affiliated with Local Goverment sponsered programs, i.e. Skywarn, HAM Clubs, City/County EM)

1. Traffic - In this area people go nuts at the mere mention of Severe Weather

2. Storm Chasers - This is the one that will generate something. But there's been plenty of debate about the Chaser vs Spotter.

3. Local Yahoos and Wannabes - This could go into the Traffic section

4. Lightning - Unpredictible

5. Inexperience/lack of training - Should be self evident

6. Shane Adams - Spotters should avoid this man like the plague. If you happen across him and don't recognize the threat, you may likely end up a statistic (Sorry Shane, I had to throw that in there. Alsups Burrito's having been covered) :D

I am both a Chaser and Spotter. Sometimes I have to walk a thin line and occasionally give up a good storm for less severe weather within my area of responsiblity.

Danny Neal

09-13-2008, 06:15 AM

2. Storm Chasers - This is the one that will generate something. But there's been plenty of debate about the Chaser vs Spotter.

Explain please. How is this a danger?

You didn't really give us a reason why you thought so, so just wanted to know your thoughts on why chasers would qualify. (Keeping in mind whats already been said about this age-old battle)

John Wetter

09-13-2008, 01:19 PM

The number one threat (which has been stated) is inexperience.

No knowing when to leave can get a spotter hurt or killed, and no amount of classroom time can completely fill this gap, and for sure not just 2-4 hours every 2 years.

John Diel

09-13-2008, 09:34 PM

Danny Neal

09-14-2008, 01:56 AM

Danny,

Ask most Spotters about Chasers and you'll get a negative response. Ask most Chasers about Spotters and you'll get a negative response.

The answer was mostly tongue in cheek, so don't flame me (or go ahead and dog me).

I run in both Kennels, so it's interesting to say the least. In truth, Chasers aren't really a problem for Spotters unless they camp out in the Spotters assigned area. Even then it's not a real issue as watching them will give the Spotter a clue as to when to leave.

Take the answer for what it is. A little levity.

I wasn't dogging at all. That wasn't my intent at all, I just wanted an open-minded, calm opinion without causing "Fall Flame War 2008." I just wanted to know as a whole how chasers would be detrimental to spotters. I would think the more eyes in an area the better......

Craig Schultz

09-17-2008, 03:37 PM

My top 5:

1. Hydroplaning
2. Falling asleep on the way home (sometimes you're not smart enough to pull over soon enough)
3. Other drivers (you cannot control what they are doing)
4. Clay/Mud roads
5. Lightning

Especially a long way from home on a road you are unfamiliar with, hydroplaning is my biggest concern. Not all roads are built the same in all states.

Craig
WX0BUB

Jason Young

09-17-2008, 11:19 PM

My list

1. Lightning
2. Hydoplaning
3. Local's wanting to see
4. The Core
5. Falling asleep

John Diel

09-18-2008, 04:43 PM

Danny,

From experience (and others will tell you this as well) there is a division between Chasers and Spotters. Whether or not there's a valid reason behind it or not, it's still there. Most storm spotters are not storm chasers. Most of them are volunteers that have been serving Skywarn, Local HAM group, or their local community for years. They have their areas of responsibility and pretty well stick to them.

Storm Chasers blow through with the wind. Sometimes in massive droves they come out, cause traffic snarls (Hence the local constabulary gets a little peaked), and generally get in the way of the local storm spotter (or, at least they are percieved to do so). Very rarely do all these folks running through the countryside or town contribute much to the community and virtually nothing to the local spotter group in the way of warnings or reports.

Now, I'm not saying that Chasers don't report what they see. In many cases they do. To NOAA. I noticed a couple of the posts are starting to list dangers associated with Chasing rather than spotting. Case in point:
1. Lightning
2. Hydoplaning
3. Local's wanting to see
4. The Core
5. Falling asleep
Hydroplaning, though a danger to anyone driving, is usually a Chaser related issue and they are traveling faster to keep up or ahead of the storm. Spotters are more likely to stay put.
Locals wanting to see. Well isn't that a Storm Spotter?
The Core: A danger to anyone not knowledgable enough to know what they are looking at.
Falling asleep. The Spotter goes home to bed after the storm moves from his area. Very rarely is he further than 10 miles from home.

Oh, I forgot the lightning. Basically a danger to anyone out and about.

Now, it doesn't really matter if any of the allegations are true or not. It's the perception. Many Chasers are firmly convinced that Local Spotters are a bunch of inept, hicks with wheat chaff for brains. Spotters take all the good filming spots. Spotters won't get out of the way and drive way to slow. Spotters don't know what they are looking at and call in Scudnadoes all the time..

See where this is going? It's perpetuated by the local EM's in many cases or by the local "old timers' who have been there for years. Local HAM groups will enhance this perception by closing Nets during severe weather. Even NOAA Met's have a say. Seems they are about evenly divided about those who chase being a threat or an asset. Chaser bashing is a local pass time.

S of one, half dozen the other. I do both and walk a thin line with my EM. He's not a fan of Storm Chasing. I generally don't tell my Chaser Buddy's that I Spot Storms locally when I don't have enough gas to make the upper plains or Red River jaunts. I'm not ashamed to be either Chaser or Soptter, I just get tired of the BS thrown by both camps.

JD

Jason Young

09-18-2008, 05:39 PM

I do understand . I am a part of a Skywarn group down here and I do chase out of area . Are group cover a LARGE area lol. I am lucky and the group is cool with my chaseing . But the fighting between Spotter's and chaser's drive's me crazy.

Shane Adams

09-18-2008, 06:01 PM

IMO the spotter issues revolve almost exclusively around territoriality. It's 'their' backyard, 'their' turf. Like any small town, anyone passing through who isn't a familiar face is considered a threat, whether consciously or subconsciously. This is on any given day, let-alone a situation (severe weather) when people are under duress.

I can understand this point of view partly, because I grew up in a small town and got used to knowing almost everyone I would see day to day. But this doesn't make a storm chaser the bad guy. Unfortunately, as John noted, it's only the perception that really matters. I understand this too, to a point, but I have a huge problem with how it paints chasers as the bad guy. It's the same thing as when a major crime hits a local town and outside authorities are called in to work the case; it's considered intrusive and threatening and it pisses the locals off. This isn't about chasing storms VS spotting them, it's about anyone not from the area being there in the first place.

And regardless of who/how many local feathers my presence may ruffle, I will not apologize for my proximity to anywhere when I'm observing severe weather. My town or not.

Dick McGowan

09-18-2008, 06:16 PM

Since this is for spotters and not chasers, I think the only danger for them is lack of knowledge/storm experience. Many times last year and just recently "spotters" (including Fire, EMS and police) have been seen looking at the wrong (gust front/shelf cloud) part of the HP-themed years' storms and often report many false tornadoes. This will often times, make it into the record books, skewing climatology data. I've also been stopped and talked to spotters many times, who were very nice, but didn't have a clue of storm structure. It's pretty frustrating, while chasing, when there are several storms within reach and a report of a tornado or funnel cloud is made, get there minutes later, only to see an outflow-dominant POS storm that a spotter called in. Perhaps the lack of storm chaser reports are due to the fact that most value calling in accurate reports with 100% certainty and don't feel the need to be somebody, playing hero for their communities. And I realize that not all spotters are this way, some are very knowlegable and report accurate information, but from the impression they give off time and time again, speaks loudly for the rest of them...just as John has stated his stereotypes among chasers. Unfortunately, my opinion probably won't ever change, just as the storm chaser image that spotters have, will.

And while storm spotters do provide a service to their communities, they haven't raised money for victims of natural disasters for 5 years running now, but storm chasers have.

Danny Neal

09-18-2008, 06:55 PM

John,

I appreciate your response. Everyone has their own perception on things and I was just curious what yours would be given you are put in both situations. I've gone over this topic many times and nothing new has been said in anyone's case. It is a time-less battle between the "yahoos" and the "old timers" (stereotyping; Yah I know its bad, but it'll be okay)that will probably never be resolved. Some may say spotters number one danger is their own ego and sense of being Barney Fife, I've heard it before and it looks like others have as well. Personally since I live in a 3mil + city, the only negative chaser/spotter confrontation I had was when I was young(12 years old) at a spotter training class being verbally chastised by whomever it was that ran the spotter net at the time. Granted I had just started chasing the year before, however being told I was doing nothing good for my community and that I would get myself killed because all chasers act first and think later, in my opinion that was a bit unacceptable. It is a battle that won't go away, and like Shane said : And regardless of who/how many local feathers my presence may ruffle, I will not apologize for my proximity to anywhere when I'm observing severe weather. My town or not ~ Shane Adams

John Diel

09-18-2008, 11:54 PM

Shane brings up a few points I overlooked. TURF. Us Vs. THEM

Yes, it's not "right" but it's there all the same. As one of the few who took the extra time to learn how to "read" a radar screen, took the time to learn how to read a Skew-T, and took the time to learn about structure, OFD, etc. It's hard dealing with the folks who's claim to fame are 4 or 5 Severe warnings each year. Occasionally they get a Tornado! I've seen the sirens go off when there was no reason to blow them (Both visual and radar) and I've seen massive rotating wall clouds roll over town with a beautiful radar couplet and no siren at all.

Personality enters so much into it, that the EM of a particular town won't take my reports at face value. Just because it's me that's calling it in. Does it make sense? No.

We are our own worst enemy. Those that went before us and the few who raised a ruckus giving us the bad taste. We are our own saviour as well. Many EM's appreciate chasers. Many NOAA Mets know Chasers and rely on them in the field.

Personally, I try to educate Spotters while in the field. If I happen on them, I'll stop and talk. I'll point out various structures and show them on the radar screen as well. I get to talk to far fewer Chasers though sa they are pretty much "on the go". I'm usually not around for the big convergence on a target area. I'd like to be though. The only Chasers I've met face to face from this site are Shane and Mick. Both of whom I respect and are really great folks.

I should say that I met a few Chasers in Dodge City last spring. I rolled in with the only window broken that day.

Take care all.

Now that all that's out of the way, The top 5 things I think pose the greatest risk for Spotters?

5. Overconfidence
4. Spotting at night
3. Too much reliance on the guy at the EOC looking at 10 minute old radar scans and directing people on that.
2. Not knowing when to bail
1. Not enough experience to know when to bail.

JD

Darin Brunin

09-19-2008, 11:22 PM

http://tornadolive.com/heysc.jpg

All jokes aside...I know there are very good spotters out there that do a good job. I just think it's very funny how territorial some people can get.

John Diel

09-20-2008, 09:06 AM

Darin, Now that's rich! :p

Paul Harrop

11-03-2008, 04:06 AM

Published statistics of dead spotters?
Where?
I'll take my chances with what I know about storms than to be hangin' with neighborhood gang-bangers anytime - any day. One can die at any time for any reason. I'm not sure what brings this concept out in the open, but the way people have been speaking of this subject - it sounds like dead spotters should recieve a posthumous Purple Cloud'- or a Congressional Medal of Thunder!
:D

There have been two that I know of. A law enforcement officer in Greensburg, and a volunteer firefighter in Seneca, MO named Tyler Casey. He was 21, married with an infant daughter. These are people, have some respect.

Rob Wadsworth

11-03-2008, 04:37 AM

There have been two that I know of. A law enforcement officer in Greensburg, and a volunteer firefighter in Seneca, MO named Tyler Casey. He was 21, married with an infant daughter. These are people, have some respect.

Do you assume that I don't respect them?
Your assumption is far from the facts - I'm afraid.
I asked a legitimate question that pertained to this year.
Where do you get your inspiration from?!?

I respect and work with Law Enforcement and have worked with local Fire Dept Volunteers in the recent past.
This thread is about five biggest dangers to spotters; do you care to contribute to this topic?

I have one more that I would like to add: will they ever be able to get a one minute refresh to radar/GR3?
Now, THAT would be useful and allow for better results for spotters and chasers alike.
Doubtful that it will happen any time soon though...

Shane Adams

11-03-2008, 08:08 AM

I have one more that I would like to add: will they ever be able to get a one minute refresh to radar/GR3?
Now, THAT would be useful and allow for better results for spotters and chasers alike.

I don't see the benefit this would have, especially for spotters who are trained to use their eyes on the sky, not a computer screen.

As for chasers, if you know what you're doing when you look at the sky, you'll know what the storm is doing before a radar does, whether the data is six minutes or one minute old.

Lanny Dean

11-03-2008, 02:03 PM

There have been two that I know of. A law enforcement officer in Greensburg, and a volunteer firefighter in Seneca, MO named Tyler Casey. He was 21, married with an infant daughter. These are people, have some respect.

Correction Paul,

There was no law inforecment officer killed in Greensburg or from Greensburg proper.
The Sheriff deputy that was killed was actually from near the Macksville area on HWY 50 well north of Greensburg.
He was killed when he made a horrible choice and basically drove into the tornado (Greesnburg #2 tornado) after loosing his "bearings" and his correct location in relation to the storm/tornado.

Paul Harrop

11-03-2008, 04:30 PM

Correction Paul,

There was no law inforecment officer killed in Greensburg or from Greensburg proper.
The Sheriff deputy that was killed was actually from near the Macksville area on HWY 50 well north of Greensburg.
He was killed when he made a horrible choice and basically drove into the tornado (Greesnburg #2 tornado) after loosing his "bearings" and his correct location in relation to the storm/tornado.

Lanny, thanks for the correction. Rob, I just found it a touch insensitive for someone to make light of or jest about awards to be given posthumously for people killed spotting or chasing. That's all I was saying.

Ryan McGinnis

11-03-2008, 06:41 PM

One of the least publicized risks of spotting is getting hit in the penis by lightning (http://www.metro.co.uk/weird/article.html?in_article_id=67375&in_page_id=2).

In all seriousness, though, gotta throw my chips in with driving. Driving, even during nice weather, is a far greater risk than that posed by severe weather. Even if all you do is drive out to some spot on top of a hill and sit there, the driving out there and driving home will be by far the most dangerous part of your entire severe weather experience.

Eric Flescher

11-04-2008, 07:46 PM

When you see something dangerous that might be brewing ( wallclouds, funnels, vicious thunderstorms, doppler etc) -even at night- don't discount anything , even if another spotter's information or law enforcement says its nothing

A couple of years ago, at night just outside of Louisbourg, KS (20 minutes south of Kansas City on I-69), I thought I could see a wall cloud looming just south even in the dark. A trooper came by and I mentioned to him the structure and pointed to it and he said " no nothing to worry about." So I did not follow it as it drifted east over into Missouri.

Well later when I got to Olathe, I found out that after it got into Missouri, it did put down a brief tornado .

So you never know. Trust your instincts and what you see not necessarily what other spotters see ( of course take reports into account though).

Jason Foster

11-06-2008, 03:35 PM

Top five dangers for Spotters....ah....

1. Flying wheels from a big, ugly tank-like chase vehicle.
2. Radiation from the DOW.
3. Someone being blinded from all the blinking lights of the spotter's vehicle.
4. Forgetting your skywarn Badge and not being allowed in the damage area.
5. Actually spotting something.

I know that was a little harsh, but posted in good fun.

Kevin Askew

11-14-2008, 02:50 AM

Definantly Lightning #1
#2 Nightime. Really have to be on yer toes but we NEVER miss a chase day or night
#3 Rain wrapping
#4 Location, location
#5 RAIN... ALWAYS use rain X!!

Alan Broerse

12-22-2008, 11:44 AM

DANGERS of Chasing 1. Traffic, DOW trucks parked in the middle of the 2 lane, Yahoos, 1st year college chasers , Terrified locals who went to see the "tarnada" and got caught up in it. and those who werent paying attention. 2. Lightning 3. Floods (INCLUDING MUDDY ROADS THAT ARE TRASHED) 4. Night chasing too close to the action..(im guilty) and reformed. 5. Relying on 7 minute old radar scans...(guilty again..and reformed) read the storm structure, back up your visual with radar from multiple sights if possible . 6. Winds in all forms...tornado, RFD , micorburst 7. Chasing an HP rain wrapped beast that often morphs and hide their winds in blinding precip and monster hail. NO VIDEO OF A STORM IS WORTH YOUR LIFE.

Skip Talbot

12-22-2008, 12:06 PM

Alan, you forgot reckless media chasers, hell bent on getting the shot. ;)

Jason Boggs

12-22-2008, 04:30 PM

Alan, you forgot reckless media chasers, hell bent on getting the shot. ;)

Hey now, I resent that remark! :D Us media chasers get a lot of fame and fortune to go hellbent to get that shot! ATTENTION: ALL SPOTTERS...Watch for me out on the plains and get out of my way so I can get that shot and get back to the station!!! Of course I'm joking here.

Mark Sefried

12-29-2008, 09:46 PM

My top 5 dangers are as follows:

1.) Inexperince in the field/bad reporting.

2.) Wet roads/hydroplaning.

3.) Having the locals park thier vehicles in the middle of a busy road just to jibber jabber as you are safely pulled off the side of a road.

4.) Getting hit by gorilla sized hail.

5.) Although rare, getting struck by LTG. Most spotters stay in thier vehicles so in theory for the most part they are protected unless they are keying up the mic.

I did not list getting hit by a tornado because statistically your odds are slim.

B. Kendrick

01-12-2009, 07:16 PM

Well based on my chasing these would by my top 5 dangers.
1. Lightning
2. Hail/corepunching
3. rain wrapped tornadoes.
4. flashflooding/flooded roads
5.straight line winds

Bryce Stone

02-10-2009, 06:23 AM

The officer killed in Kansas in 2007 by a tornado was not a sheriff's deputy, he was a police officer from a town (Macksville) close to Greensburg. Here is a link to the information since no one seems to be familiar with it:

http://odmp.org/officer/18871-police-officer-robert-(tim)-buckman

There used to be a picture online of his patrol car post-tornado, but I can't seem to find it now. It looked pretty bad.

Back on topic, I remember a couple of years ago the NWS included chasers as hazards to spotters in Skywarn classes. I was kinda pissed the first time I saw that in a presentation, because chasers are simply over-distracted drivers. If the NWS wanted to include distracted drivers as hazards to spotters in their presentations, then why not include all distracted drivers? I could see the NWS point, but I disagreed with it.

I noticed that this year they removed that part of the presentation. If memory serves, the warning to spotters about chasers in NWS presentations ran from about 2006-2008.

Speaking from experience, I spotted from 2000-2003 and didn't know a damn thing about severe weather. It was only in 2004 when I began chasing that I started learning anything about storms.

So I'd say the following three are most dangerous to spotters:

1. Inexperience
2. Road hazards
3. Lightning

Tom Johnson

03-02-2009, 03:39 PM

IMO:
The Top 5 Dangers of Spotting are
5) Making sure you have a vehicle that's capable of pulling off your mission.
4) Not only cars/trucks, but anything that is on or near the roadway. Either
You can stay or get off the Road (By intent, inattention or blown off by
wind, OR the same may happen with other vehicles and the "debris" that
may be placed in your path (or hurled directly at your head).
3) Not knowing your geographical location AND your proximity/location
as it relates to
A) The Weather in General and
B) The Storm you are tracking or Spotting
2) Being a Human Lightning Rod
1) Being Ignorant: not being Educated & Informed about what you are
doing, how to do it properly, and not being RESPECTFUL of the Weather.

Overall, I'd say Being informed & Awareness

Tom Johnson
Texarkana, AR

Mikey McCaslin

03-11-2009, 10:39 AM

People chasing that are not quilified nor have a ham radio!!!:

Dennis Sherrod

03-11-2009, 01:29 PM

People chasing that are not quilified nor have a ham radio!!!:

Are you saying that not having a ham radio is a danger if you are spotting or chasing?

Jason Foster

03-11-2009, 11:02 PM

Are you saying that not having a ham radio is a danger if you are spotting or chasing?

Yeah....I too wonder about that statement. I actually don't think people need to get a ham radio license to chase...in fact...I hate chasers who only get their license in order to chase/spot. It's just as easy to phone in or use other means. Ham radio is a communications hobby, and chasers tend to lack the necessary protocol and skill when using ham radio. I speak of the many...but not of the whole on this. It is not a necessary tool, there are many other tools that accomplish the same task without becoming a ham.