External Hard Drive Questions...

[Dustin Wilcox]

Never dealing with these before, I have a couple questions that will determine if purchasing one is worth my time or money. My use for it is simple, store photos (Not really completely "necessary" as a 4.7 GB DVD really holds A LOT of photos) my other use, storage of HighDef video (I still, and always will have my video stored as a Hard Copy on Mini DV) thus I don't "NEED" an external Hard Drive, though my thinking is it would be nice to have a couple backups, and also, it might speed up time spent working with video, as opposed to digging out the Mini DV and re-uploading it every time I need some of the video, I could just bust out the HD and send it over to the computer and not have to re-upload... right? This is where my question comes in; What are the transfer times on data from the CPU to the HD, and then again from the HD back to the CPU? Is it like snap of the finger, boom 10 gb transfered, or is is a more slow drawn out process? I'd also appreciate any recommendations on the best HD's...

[Skip Talbot]

External hard drives are great for backup purposes and if you do a lot of work between computers. I think you are confusing terms when you are talking about transfering between the CPU and the HD. You mean copying from the external hard drive to the internal one I assume. That is still going to take time. 10 GB will take several minutes to copy off an external drive to an internal one. It would take a few minutes between two internal drives too though. You can, however, work directly off the external drive. Edit your videos and save them without copying them over. The files still have to be read though, so huge files will take awhile to load. Basically, its a little slower than having the hard drive internally. Get a high capacity 3.5 inch, 5400 rpm drive and put it in an external enclosure. There are lots of brands, check out reviews if you like. For long term storage I would stick with disks still as hard drives fail and they are expensive to use for just keeping a lot of data.

[Eric Wolf]

Just to add to what Skip said, if you use a 3.5" external drive, it will need an external 12 volt DC input to drive it, be it from your car battery or wall wart. If you use a 2.5" notebook drive, you can drive it directly off of the power from the USB bus. This is more costly, but helpful if you plan to do anything away from a power source.

[Rob Wadsworth]

You are asking a difficult question...
A big file is a big file; so the time taken to move it is ultimately up to just how big it really is.
It might be in your best interest to have 2 separate external drives - one for video and one for film. Since video files are inherently larger and if you have lots of them, you may need to get a 1 terabite external for this aspect.

10 Gb transfer from an external HDD should be faster than your camera can do. Besides, don't you want to be able to process the footage in a software for editing? So, it would be in your best interest to be able to access it at the best rate that you can. Besides; you want to be able to back up your hard found footage - right? So, havng externals and all of that footage seems inevitable. You may end up having at least one HDD for stills and two for videos.

Tranfer times is the question...
How fast is your RAM - do you have a megadose of Corsair RAM? What is the operating system - Xp or Vista? How fast is the CPU? What brand of motherboard is it? How fast is the HDD that runs your O/S? There are programs that benchmark the speed of your computer, here's a really good one:
http://www.futuremark.com/download/pcmark05/
Futuremark is a xlnt way of evaluating the strengths/weaknesses of any computer. If you are concerned about HOW LONG it takes someting to be done on your box, use this benchmark as your guage. If you have issues with the box being sluggish, the PC Mark test will advise you where improvements may need to be made. It is cheaper to improve computer speed these days, as RAM prices - even really good RAM (like Corsair) - is pretty inexpensive. And still the quickest/easiest way to improve the performance of ANY computer.
Was this answer 'over the top'?
Sorry for the ramblings...

[Mike Hollingshead]

Dustin, just go to Wally world and get a Seagate or I guess Maxtor(one bought the other). They are so cheap it's not a very big investment to just have one for backup. Speed is not going to be much of a problem. I don't see how it would. I can capture HDV directly to either of my external hard drives with the USB 2.0 cable. You can edit them and work with them on there that way too if wanted. It just becomes a problem if you edit the clips much with some kind of filters or color adjustments. But it can be done.

Anyway, if they'll capture HDV on the fly, I'm not sure what else you'll do that will be much of an issue. Now if I make a dvd I'll just work right off the clips on the external hd.

[Dustin Wilcox]

10 Gb transfer from an external HDD should be faster than your camera can do.

That is the heart of what I was asking, I kind of figured it would be faster, though I had no idea if this type of transfer was like a second or if it would take several minutes. Though it sounds like it takes several minutes, still far better than uploading from a camera repeatedly, I also didn't know you could work directly off the hard drive, that right there easily sells me....

[Dustin Wilcox]

Get a high capacity 3.5 inch, 5400 rpm drive and put it in an external enclosure.

So this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148337
and this
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153066

are ultimately better than this guy?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148332

[Skip Talbot]

Yeah, that will work. There are cheaper enclosures out there, made for just 3.5 inch drives.

[Rob Wadsworth]

A 5400rpm HDD is not hardly available these days, many of them are the 7200rpm variety. I wouldn't consider buying a 5400rpm; I don't think I would take one if someone gave it to me. They are as bit too slow.

They also make 10,000rpm jobbies; I have one on the compter I am using now. It's called the 'Raptor' made by WD. They are faster in access/seek/read/write than any other; but are pricey. If I were to get an external, I would buy - without hesitation - the Hitachi DeskStar series. They are not as expensive as the Raptor; but they are pretty close and don't cost near as much either. Good buy, if you can get them online. You would have to take an old external case and pop it in, but it would be the hot setup if you are willing to jump thru hoops.

Hitachi also makes the TravelStar Series for laptops - which is 7200rpm that is quiet, very fast, and quite the upgrade for your laptop. Most laptops have 5400rpm HDD's. If/when my laptop HDD takes a dump, That is what I would replace it with - without any doubt...

[Eric Wolf]

A 5400rpm HDD is not hardly available these days, many of them are the 7200rpm variety. I wouldn't consider buying a 5400rpm; I don't think I would take one if someone gave it to me. They are as bit too slow.

I could go either way on this. I'd say you were right if he was planning to transfer many small files over the USB interface. You would then want the faster seek time to go from file to file. However, for extremely large files such as video backups, the faster seek times won't do you much good because the file transfer is then at the mercy of the speed of the USB interface (which, actually, doesn't run full out in regard to the USB 2.0 spec most of the time, in these drive enclosures). The difference will probably be negligible, if even noticeable. That being said, though, both speeds are very comparable in price, whichever way you go.

[Rob Wadsworth]

Hey Eric:
Yes, that is correct. That is why I pointed out earlier that evaluating one's computer is essential to determine how fast the access would occur, If the computer is maxxed out on quality/amount of RAM and CPU speed; then the next weakest link to transfer speed via the USB would be the extrnal drive's own characteristics.

I also wanted to point out that brands are important in HDD's; and while he has a choice before buying - I wanted to steer him twards the best that he could afford and one that would give him the most satisfaction per dollar spent.

[Eric Wolf]

Oh yeah, I definitely understand and can understand where you are coming from!

In the scheme of things my NAS server that I use for storage wouldn't even HAVE hard drives. Too many moving parts, and terrible failure rates. Then again, 200 dollars for 12 gigs of Compact Flash is not terribly economical (nor the USB stick equivalent)....maybe one day!

[Dennis Sherrod]

As a reminder along the same lines as this thread.
Back up your info and do it OFTEN!
I had a complete computer crash; motherboard, hard drive, and sound card a few weeks ago. I had previously backed up a lot of my info, photos etc up, but was not real consistent about doing it. I got bit pretty bad. I have a fair amount of files and some photos I have lost.
To recover these, I will have to send my hard drive off and it will probably cost in the area of at least $400.00 to get the info and photos I want.
Just the aggravation and hassle is worth spending a couple hundred now to save this problem.
The only good thing about any of this, is I now have a really nice super computer.

[Eric Wolf]

To recover these, I will have to send my hard drive off and it will probably cost in the area of at least $400.00 to get the info and photos I want.

And along those lines, if you have to send a drive off, choose a reputable company that someone can vouch for. I have heard of at least three incidents where the people getting the information recovered were victims of identity theft not long after the work was completed. If at all possible, do the recovery yourself. A lot of times, you can buy another drive for cheap of the exact model and swap out the controller board if it's something electronic. If it's a corrupt hard drive, freeware utilities can recover the data. Check out http://www.myharddrivedied.com/presentations.html for LOTS of ways to fix drives yourself. Sorry, didn't mean to deviate from the original topic.

[Rob Wadsworth]

Also along these lines, getting a $200 power conditioner is a good way to keep power spikes from killing your gear - too. When one considers that all of your data and stored files on the main HDD can get whacked, as well as the viddy card, motherboard, power supply, etc will take it UNLESS a real conditioner is in line. If one considers the cost of parts and hassle, the SL Waber just is the best insurance you can have. It will run a couple of computers, depending on its capacity.

I built a comp for my Sister in Michigan 2 years ago. I just got off of the phone with her just a few minutes ago. Apparently. they had a power spike and the power was off for a few hours. When the power came back on, she tried to turn on her comp, and it wouldn't start. To make a long story short, she told me that she had to replace the motherboard, power supp, and the HDD. Not to mention, she had to have them re-install the O/S; $325 to fix it all because there wasn't a power conditioner in line. They are cheaper than having to fix and replace parts; but the loss of data is irreplaceable...

I've had mine for a couple of years and it has protected my comp at least a half of dozen times.
http://www.computereq.com/detail.asp?ProdID=3135

[Dennis Sherrod]

And along those lines, if you have to send a drive off, choose a reputable company that someone can vouch for. I have heard of at least three incidents where the people getting the information recovered were victims of identity theft not long after the work was completed. If at all possible, do the recovery yourself. A lot of times, you can buy another drive for cheap of the exact model and swap out the controller board if it's something electronic. If it's a corrupt hard drive, freeware utilities can recover the data. Check out http://www.myharddrivedied.com/presentations.html for LOTS of ways to fix drives yourself. Sorry, didn't mean to deviate from the original topic.

Eric,
Thank you. I will look into this. That is one thing that worried me about sending this off. I could change passwords on everything, but there is a still a ton of personal ID info.

Rob,
You are right. I had a good surge protector and still had the crash. I gather the power spike / surge, what-have-you, is what helped kill the computer, as all the clocks were off in the house too when I got home.

Again, sorry, did not mean to hijack thread.

[Dan Robinson]

You can trust external drives for anything you do. I've lived off of external drives for the past 6 years, all of my data is on them (video, photos, web sites, graphics, etc). Every year or so I have to get a pair of bigger drives to hold everything (I always buy in pairs, one primary and one for backup), and at this point I have 10 external drives ranging from 250GB to 1TB. I just bought the pair of 1TB drives this year. I have Maxtors, Seagates and Western Digitals, and out of ten drives, I've only had one go bad (a Seagate 500GB). The unit that went bad was actually the enclosure hardware, the drive inside was still good.

I like being able to have all of my data in one place that I can take anywhere. I can fill stock video orders and do web site work with my laptop on the road just as if I was at home or at the office. When I move to a bigger drive, the old ones are relegated to offsite backup duty. I keep three of them ready for footage deliveries, they've been shipped all over the country the past 2 years for that.

[Jayson Prentice]

Dustin, an external hard drive is a great investment, whether you go for one that you enclose yourself or just go ahead and by a true external one ready to go. I went out last Friday and picked up a 640GB Western Digital for only $70, they are really fairly cheap for how much you can fit onto them. All of the seagate, western digital, or the maxtor all have had good reviews and I think they are the top of the line so to say for what you can get.

Like someone previous said, it's always nice if you have two of them as well. My photography is being backed up onto two different externals, and then also going to be burnt to DVD (one of my christmas break projects). This stuff is something that you don't want to lose, so backups are always good and fairly cheap!

[Robert Edmonds]

On another note, keeping a backup maintained and up to date is important. Every few weeks I would copy those important files over. Also, I would recommend a back up of a back up. I kept a back up copy of important files before my last computer crashed, then when I got my new computer with extra space I quickly copied it back to my new computer. Guess what happened a few weeks ago, my backup external hard drive failed. It's annoying to deal with the backing up stuff, but much less so then loosing all of my photos, docs, etc... Now I just need to get my back hard drive working again.