Laptops: Unfortunately "pre-installed" Vista!

[cdcollura]

I have completely given up from Vista and such as it is only for people who are newbies to computers (much like AOL is to Internet people – Not for advanced users / experts and too much BS you don’t need).

My new laptop was absolutely awesome, but the major problem with iot is that it came with Vista, actually the “all in one awesome” 64-bit version (until now).

First of all, the laptop, a Sony Vaio PGN FW-245 U/P, came with too much EXTRA crap (yes, crap) that I’ll never use. Yeah, there was Vista, but a ton of other TRIAL software, including Office 2007, that either costed $500 to activate and / or was a “disabled lite” version, for example, Roxio DVD creator wrote CD ROMs, but won’t burn DVD’s unless you coughed up $200 to upgrade it.

So I uninstalled all these useless extras “for dummies” I was left with bare Vista 64-Bit. I began the all-important installation of my “important” programs. Here was my “experience”…

1. Sonic DVD IT … The install program, after nearly 10 minutes of “installing programs please wait” aborted with “cannot find CRYPTO.DLL” … LOL, the same name as my former dog. The install aborted and basicall said to me “your’e SOL”. I searched google for CRYPTO.DLL and found nothing for it on DVD IT. An upgrade to a Vista compatible version of DVD IT is a mere $499. LOL.

2. Next up was Adobe Premiere 6.5, by far the most important program I use for video editing. The install (SETUP.EXE) bombed with a message “this version of windows has blocked SETUP.EXE due to incompatibility issues” and had no “run anyway” button, just cancelled, so that was another SOL. Upgrade price: CS4 at $1,100. Just adding it, to see what one would spend because of Vista – Cha-Ching, eeeooon – Cash piles up, now more than the $800 for the new laptop, which I though was a steal.

3). Both Swift WX amd Delorme Street Atlas 2006 failed to install. The install program bombed with an error, and it stopped … So no dice here … And for storm chasing, there goes data and navigation. No program, just an error from the install. This, after Premiere, was a total discouragement.

4). Corel 11 Graphics Studio did install, but crashed often with a memory error. At least this product installed and ran, but did not run well. Upgrading this to a Vista Compatible version also was at least $699.

5). MS Visual Basic, an important program for web updating and custom programming, failed to install. Message told me I had 17 MB free on my C: drive and needed 50 MB or more to continued the install. When I checked it was 192 GB free, but MS VB never “knew” that, so I saw the all-to-familiar Ok button that causes the install to die when clicked. Upgrade options here are to go to VB Net and shell out nearly $1000 in upgrades.

6). Even my trusty Avasat Antivirus was bad with a taste of Vista. It installed, but gave me an RPC error for the startup service. Manually attempting to start the service (always started fine in XP Pro) was useless and never started (gave an "unable to start") error ... So Avast antivirus was useless with Vista. I did not look for a "vista compatible" update, as by this point, I no longer cared.

After this, and totally discouraged, I decided to abandon Vista and install XP Pro on the laptop. I did the same on my new desktop I built a few weeks ago, where I put on XP Pro and all was well (just much faster). When I tried to put XP on the laptop, bang … Soomething I never seen before – a BLUE SCREEN OF DEATH!

Tried it several times, and the same error after the install disk loaded – Blue screen, with a stop error of 0x0000007B. Goggling and looking at Microsoft on this issue simply told me the boot sector of the HD was hosed (virus), or the bios was incompatible. I then tried Windows 2000, but this time the install blue-screened with an error saying the ACPH API is incompatible and a driver can be loaded from the site www.support-downloads.com (http://www.support-downloads.com/) (that link was rotton – gave me site not found error) … Opps another big yellow diamond saying “dead end”.

I took the hard drive (a Hitachi SATA drive) out of the laptop, as one last resort, and attempted to format it with XP Pro in another computer. The install worked fine and there was no blue screen (confirming it was a BIOS issue). Putting it back in the laptop (with XP on it) blue screened.

I then decided to put the drive back to factory, by re-installing it back the way it was, based on the backup DVDs I made before even messing with the laptop ;-) After a 2-3 hour “office space progress bar” type wait, Vista 64 bit was back on the laptop, but did not have the same settings as original. And any attempt still did not make my “essentials” for storm chasing / video work. I had another Vista disk, for my desktop (without all the extra bloatware) which was 32-bits, and attempted to install that.

That version of Vista installed fine, but many drivers were missing, so I went to SonyStyle.com to look for drivers (I did this with an earlier laptop, for XP a few years ago, with very pleasant results) … This time, my commuters model, was not in the list. I needed FW-245, but saw the sickening “gap” between FW-198 and FW-250 … LOL.

This is where I gave up, hands in the air, and again, tried to put the original factory setup disks back on the laptop and return it to the store. When trying to put the original disks back on, a pop-up “error 403” would appear and the restore to original would abort.

Frustrated and now fuming mad … I said screw it and brought the laptop back to the store. I proudly “ate” the $125 “refurbish and restock fee” since the computer now gave a “missing operating system” message and called it quits. I even returned the new bag for the laptop computer since it was a 17” monitor. All in all, since I used gift cards and my Amex for the laptop, the whole ordeal wound up costing me about $75, plus several years taken off my “hearts life” from the stress.

Consider this if you buy a laptop with Vista previously installed on it.

Also, when buying a laptop, take the XP Pro Installation disk with you, put it in one of the laptops on display, and reboot it (It won’t install anything) … You’ll know if you can install XP Pro if you don’t get a “blue screen” before it asks you to format the C: drive and continue (then you can buy that laptop) ;-)

Consider this when using christmas money to look for a new Laptop ... In order to use Vista and get all your "storm chasing" stuff to work may cost you at leasdt 2-3 times in upgrades than what you paid for that laptop!

You were warned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhe0H8RDNcc

That’s my 2-cents worth…

[rdale]

I use 64-bit Vista and had no problem with Spotternetwork, GRLevel2, GRLevel3, GR2AE, VMWare GEMPAK, Microsoft Streets 2008 w/GPS, Visual Basic 2005 and VB 2008...

[Joey Ketcham]

I like Vista and I disagree that the OS is for newbies, in fact I think the main reason so many people have problems with it is because they aren't computer savvy and can't find their way around the OS. There are some dumb features in Vista but with some tweaking you can disable them.

Back when Vista first came out it was full of bugs which have since been fixed with windows updates. When I hear people say they won't ever use Vista their reasons are generally because it is buggy, when questioned about what bugs they begin rambling off the bugs Vista had when it first came out and the person doesn't realize that those bugs have been fixed. I agree that Vista still has flaws, but even XP I still find flaws with. The main thing I like to point out is the fact it took 2 service packs to make XP what it is today, and as I said I still find bugs with XP. So no OS is perfect.

As far as software compatibility issues, the main thing to keep in mind is if you are using an old version of a software that was made in the Windows 98/2000 era than chances are that version is no longer supported and updates are no longer being supplied, at some point that software is bound to stop working and just so happens it was Vista, if it had stopped working with XP then one would be saying XP sucks. Adobe Premiere 6.5 probably hasn't seen an update in years, I don't even remember when that version of Adobe Premiere came out. I use Adobe Premiere CS3 and it works flawlessly on Vista.

Another thing I would recommend is checking the software manufacturer's website and see if a driver update is available so that it will work with Vista. I think once we see more and more software manufacturers making drivers for Vista we'll see less and less of these compatibility issues, we are getting there and it is better than it was, remember Vista is still a new OS and it takes time to get these updates out to make the software compatible.

I also think a lot of people tend to just blame Vista for problems they're having only because it's a new OS that they're using and in fact has nothing to do with the actual problem the user is having, this as a result causes them to say "Vista sucks, it is causing all these problems.". Being a beta tester for a company that develops software in house I see this a lot. So many times after I get done testing something and roll the updates out I get people who wants to blame every problem they have on the new updates when the updates has nothing to do with it. I've sent out software updates and then had people call me saying "your updates you sent out messed such and such up" and then I when I look at it the problem had nothing to do with the updates. I think people blames Vista for any and all problems simply because it's the easy thing to do when really the problem is just old and outdated drivers or a driver conflict which can occur on any OS.

I don't think many people will have more than 4GB of memory, but keep in mind that if you do get a computer that has 6GB or more of memory than you will have to use Vista since XP will only see up to 4GB of memory. My computer has 6GB, if I switch to XP I will lose 2GB, I hear I can use a 64-Bit version of XP that supposedly handles it but I have heard it is more of a pain than it is worth.

When I read these rants about Vista my feelings about them are mixed. I started using Vista about 5 months ago, prior to that I had the same "Vista sucks" opinion that many people have and that opinion was based on what I heard about Vista when it first came out and it was full of bugs. Five months later, I love Vista and I have not had any problems with Vista. Everything I used before on XP works on Vista, I've never had any compatibility issues, never had random crashes, and I've tweaked the OS so that all the dumb features are disabled.

Chris, I hope none of what I said offends you, it was just a generic reply that wasn't exactly directed at you or anyone else. I'm just speaking from my experiences with Vista.

[Scott Weberpal]

Re-partition your hard drive and install Vista and XP for dual boot...

http://apcmag.com/how_to_dual_boot_vista_and_xp_with_vista_installed _first__the_stepbystep_guide.htm

[Rob Wadsworth]

I agree with Scott; re-partition the HDD and then put on both OS's. But do this if you have a HDD that is 100Gb or larger.
I've got COPIES of Vista in my file cabinet that I don't and won't use til they make it work as well as Xp. I just like Xp because it doesn't slow down the system as Vista does. That is really my biggest gripe! Put a speed efficiency bench test on the same dual-boot box, and Xp will produce good numbers. And Vista will will say "cannot find dll..." If I were to put on another OS after repartitioning the HDD, I would use Ubuntu. In fact, Ubuntu will re-partition the HDD for you; no external pre-program is even necessary. I'm not sure if adding WINE to Ubuntu will allow for GR3/SpotterNetwork/DeLorme, but I'd bet that it would.

[Jerry Prsha]

3). Both Swift WX amd Delorme Street Atlas 2006 failed to install. The install program bombed with an error, and it stopped … So no dice here … And for storm chasing, there goes data and navigation. No program, just an error from the install. This, after Premiere, was a total discouragement.

FYI, I run Vista 64bit.... SwiftWX, Garmin nRoute and GPS Gate run fine on mine.

[Laura Duchesne]

My Sony Vaio (model PCG-7133L) laptop with Vista works great. I can run GR3, Streets and Trips, Spotter Network without any issues. All the trial software that came on the laptop are not added by Vista, but by the manufacturer. The first laptop I bought came with more trial software than my latest one. I like my new laptop better because it ran more smoothly and seemed faster than my previous one. I just uninstall whatever I don't use and tweak which programs start up, etc. Vista does take a little bit getting used to it, but there are a lot of options you can change to make the OS more suitable for you.

I am sorry to hear of your unfortunate problems Chris, but Joey made good points. From the problems you were having, it sounded like the laptop had other major issues aside from Vista, perhaps the system itself was not good enough? I ran a Google search on your model and it returned about 4 results including this thread. I guess that says something there, unless it's listed under a different name.

[Steve Miller OK]

I use "Mojave" (http://www.mojaveexperiment.com/?CMXID=2120.C8EC8D2C-7116-4E47-9821-B85CDD784C72&WT.srch=1&fbid=L36y56My_aa) and have no problems with running third-party programs. Just a bad install?

[Joey Ketcham]

Put a speed efficiency bench test on the same dual-boot box, and Xp will produce good numbers. And Vista will will say "cannot find dll..."

What software are you using to run your bench test? I use SiSoft Sandra and it runs fine on Vista, 3DMark Vantage also runs fine on Vista as well. Sounds to me like you might be using an old version of the software that was designed for an earlier OS than Vista. Make sure you have the latest updates of the software, if the last version you have is prior to Vista's release that would explain why it works in XP and not Vista. If that is not the case, then make sure you are picking up all the Windows Updates as that can eventually lead to problems if you don't. A "cannot find dll" error is generally from a bad install of either the software or the OS. As I stated in my last post, people new to Vista or not computer savvy encounter problems and immediately wants to blame Vista saying it sucks when really it has nothing to do with the OS itself but rather something else. Several people I know have encountered problems with certain software they were using on Vista and was blaming it on Vista calling it a horrible OS, yet I installed it on my computer that runs Vista and it worked fine which told me that Vista was not the direct cause of the software not working and that it was computer specific and something other than Vista causing the problem.

I'm betting that's the case with the bench mark software you are using, once you tell me what you're using I'll install it and I'm betting it will run fine.

[David Drummond]

Exactly what Joey says. I had some issues initially with Vista, but rather than blame the OS, I assumed it was either my own ignorance of how the new OS operates, old software and I needed to move into the future, or a combination of both.

Now all my machines are running on Vista and running GREAT and super fast. (They all have 4 gigs of memory too). And for the first time, I don't feel like after a year of running my OS I need to do a "fresh install" every year because of all the leftover crap that has build up and bogged down the system like it did in XP.

[cdcollura]

Good afternoon,

Looks like this is clearly my luck of the draw with a laptop with a crappy version of Vista.

I'll wait 6-months to a year and try again, in the meanwhile, I'll stick with XP Pro.

BTW: I cannot do any dual-boot as XP Pro failed to even install on the laptop. This was a BIOS issue and not Vista related.

This is bleeding-edge technology that just came out after the holidays ... I had the SAME issues with other computers / OS's in the past - All of which improved over time (as bugs were fixed / updates came out).

[J Kinkaid]

Have you tried a clean install of Vista? You should always format a new laptop to remove the bloat. My vista starts off with only 31 processes running and is super fast with only a few minor problems.

[Joey Ketcham]

Good afternoon,

Looks like this is clearly my luck of the draw with a laptop with a crappy version of Vista.

I'll wait 6-months to a year and try again, in the meanwhile, I'll stick with XP Pro.

BTW: I cannot do any dual-boot as XP Pro failed to even install on the laptop. This was a BIOS issue and not Vista related.

This is bleeding-edge technology that just came out after the holidays ... I had the SAME issues with other computers / OS's in the past - All of which improved over time (as bugs were fixed / updates came out).

There's really no reason to do that, Vista has come along ways since it was first release and most of the bugs have been fixed with windows updates. Do a fresh install of Vista and then pick up all windows updates, that combined with using all the latest drivers for all your software and I bet you will be pleased with Vista.

[John Wetter]

I think a fix might have been a clean install of only Vista... This is standard procedure as far as I'm concerned. Either buy a business laptop, or if you must go retail, first thing I do when the computer comes home is crack open the restore CD's. They usually don't contain all the garbage software, or at least give you the option of installing the 'valuable extras'.

As far as the other apps not working, that's to be expected. You have to remember that you're jumping an OS version AND a complete architecture jump from x32 to x64 computing. That's a lot of system change to put old apps through, it's not surprising that there were issues. On the modern apps like Swift, etc. I would bet it's residual damage from all the uninstalls taking too many files.

Too bad you had such a bad experience, I think most vendors try to avoid that obviously. I think with Windows 7 we'll find even more older software that won't work with it as to drop some of the bloat, the easiest thing to drop (and most necessary from a size and security standpoint) is backward compatibility. Windows users aren't used to that...

[David Drummond]

This is a super easy way to do a clean install posted on this forum:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=120228

I have done this on every one of my machines. It's the only way to truly get rid of the bloatware that comes with the factory machines.

BTW, the restore discs that come with your machine, or in the case of some like HP, you have to create yourself, they are to restore your machine back to it's ORIGINAL state new, bloatware and all.

[Rob Wadsworth]

CD Collura:
If you want to continue using Xp and want to keep the garbage off of the system, there is a free software available called 'CCleaner'.
http://www.ccleaner.com/download

I use it at the end of each day of running my box, and it does an excellent job. After you install it, just don't check off any of the boxes given that are left open. Just run it as it is as they set it up - works great. If you check off more boxes to filter, you may have some problems - not worth it. Unless you are a pro, I would leave them alone.
73's

[Terry Tyler]

my philosophy on vista, and the problems you are currently experiencing...

it sounds like your computer is well equiped to run vista...i think where alot of the complaints originated about vista began with accelerated release of the OS ahead of when it probably should have been released and the installation of the OS on computers whos hardware wasnt capable of running vista, with aero and all the different moving and gliding windows...

the 64 bit is also a problem with some people...some programs havent been wrote for 64bit vista, and thus wont work unless with 32 bit or XP...thats probably why your programs wont run, youll need a 64bit copy, and if its not available then your out of luck...as far as the blue screening is concerned, thats a windows error...you probably tried to install XP pro on a computer specifically designed for vista and it didnt know what to do...im no computer expert but atleast you took it back to the store instead of busting it up...

what a story, im sorry that happened bro...ive been down that road before, the new phone and camera i bought looked so cool but turned out to be really difficult to use in real life...all and all, its a brand new operating system...someone who has used a PC their whole life would find a different OS different and possible difficult to use...bottom line is, you have to try to take the time to learn the way of the modern world...vista will be replaced by windows seven i believe, and if you keep using XP it wont be long before its left behind altogether...

[Robert Edmonds]

my plan for my next laptop is get a mac... Then set it up to run windows and ubuntu inside the mac os. That way I don't have to repartition anything. I have a friend who does this and am jelous. That way if I don't like on operating system I will switch to another.

[Joey Ketcham]

as far as the blue screening is concerned, thats a windows error...you probably tried to install XP pro on a computer specifically designed for vista and it didnt know what to do...im no computer expert but atleast you took it back to the store instead of busting it up...


A blue screen of death isn't always a windows error, they can occur for other reasons such as bad memory or drivers conflict. I've seen corrupted video drivers cause a blue screen of death. Also there is no such thing as a computer specifically designed for Vista, a computer is built to meet the requirements for Vista to run, but beyond that if it can run Vista then it will have no problems running XP.

[Jason Boggs]

Chris, there has to be some problems with something other than Vista on your computer. Every one of my programs that I had on my XP machine runs fine with Vista. I even have some older programs like Photostudio 2000 and Delorme Street Atlas 2005 that runs great with Vista. Like some have said here, check for updates on drivers. Vista's not the problem here.

[cdcollura]

Good day all,

Thanks for your opinions and advice on this subject. First of all, the problem might be exactly as specified, all the trials and bloat-ware (crap) that is shoved down your throat on a new PC / Laptop :-(

First of all, that's EXACTLY what I did ... Attempted to do the restore CD's and re-install ONLY Vista. Unfortunately, this is what I ran into...

There were no CD's that came with the Laptop. Sony has a partition on the hard-drive (about 10 GB) that contains an install "image". When you first run the computer, you use this to create the backup CD's.

Second, there is no pick-and-choose with the CD's when you restore the system. My old laptop allowed an OS only option, where you do an install and "un-check" MS Works, AOL, and all the junk - Except for the OS (which has the drivers) ... Worked great. This go-around, there was two options, a "complete install" and "factory-default" ... Both installed the OS AND the "garbage" in both cases, the latter less the windows updates. This might be a Sony Vaio thing (or others as well) on laptops sold in stores for the "average joe".

I will research a bit more on this to only get a Vaio that ONLY has the OS and drivers for that laptop. If Sony cannot do that, then I'll go with a Dell (as we use those at my workplace and can get one discounted).

I agree with running ONLY vista on this and not the other BS that is shipped with these laptops (in retail) as I am a storm chaser and IT person and can figure out how to use a computer for video / navigation and don't need "granny's AOL" companion 30-day trial ;-)

Thanks guys,

[J Kinkaid]

Call up sony and ask for the OS CD. If they are anything like Dell they will send you one. If this doesn't fix your problems then you need to return your laptop:)

[Jason Boggs]

My new HP laptop I bought a month or so ago is the same way. It has no operating system CD. It's just like what Christopher described.

[Scott Weberpal]

Most manufacturers don't send the restore CD's anymore. Millions of PC's/laptops with millions of CD's = millions of dollars. They wait for someone to have an issue then send a CD if they are under warranty - if not, they'll ask for a few hundred dollars to reinstall the OS. ALWAYS ask for the restore CD within the warranty period even if you don't need it.

[cdcollura]

Good day all,

Call up sony and ask for the OS CD. If they are anything like Dell they will send you one. If this doesn't fix your problems then you need to return your laptop:)

I just returned the laptop ... Ate the $125 restock-fee for Geek squad and called it quits.

http://dvice.com/pics/vista-cracked.jpg

Bummer...

[Greg Stumpf]

For future reference, when ordering a Sony VAIO, you can get the free "Fresh Start" option that will install only the basic OS and hardware drivers - no bloatware at all.

[Kory Hartman]

One correction on RAM in XP... it only "sees" 3.5 GB if you have 4GB+ in your laptop. XP will absolutely fly on a laptop with a Core2 Duo processor and 4GB ram.

The main reasons some people want to keep XP is because it is familiar... been around for over 7 years now... lots of driver support, etc. Also, people don't want to spend money to upgrade programs that they know, or spent a load on just a few years ago.

Chris mentioned Adobe 6.5... who cares how old it is? If he knows the program, knows it works on XP, and it does what he needs, he shouldn't have to buy another grand worth of Adobe products just so it works on his $800 laptop :)

Anyway, if anyone is interested, I am a Dell reseller and can get good deals on new laptops that still have XP, come with reinstall CD's, etc. Shoot me a PM or email if interested. (oh, and NEVER buy anything from Best Buy if you can stand to wait and do some online searching. I've found better deals, sometimes 50% lower than BB, by "touching" the products at the store, writing down model numbers, then Googling when I get home)

[Will Wilkens]

I have two Dell laptops and one Dell desktop, all with Vista Business 32-bit, and they run absolutely great. Never had a single issue with anything, and runs exceptionally fast.

Chris, I think you had a bum laptop (hardware) combined with all the trial-ware crap. Try a different brand laptop.

Well, we got Windows 7 coming out in '09. Will be interesting to see what that one looks like.

BTW, Kory is correct. On our systems at work that have Core2 Duo and 4 GB of ram, XP is a screamer. Dell is still selling XP on certain models until sometime in '10, as a "downgrade license" which means you are still buying Vista but you are allowed to use XP and Dell will load XP on it. You can install Vista anytime thereafter.

[cdcollura]

Good afternoon,

This helped a bit...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5W8lmQ63PGs

No, just kidding ... I'll check out the Dells and other options after I calm down :-)

Thanks

[Rob Wadsworth]

Chris, that was a real scream!
I enjoyed every minute of it. The two best parts were the the MicroShlump guy at the beginng saying 'WHOA'- after the Blue Screen Of Death. And the other is Bill Gates catching a pie in the face. I'm glad that you are keeping your sense of humor up, I know I would be off the hook in a situation like that - too...

I own a Hp w/Xp that I got at TigerDirect. I think they still have some laptops that come with Xp. Maybe you want to check them out. If they are out, then maybe a Hp w/4Gb RAM and spend the xtra $90 for the Xp home edition. (I like the Hp's; they are relatively inexpensive and have a real decent quality level.) That way, you would be assured of a clean install too. It is cheaper and every bit as effective as the Xp Pro, ran it on a couple of friends/family boxes and they just love it! Just some thoughts...

[Jason Foster]

Chris:

I feel your pain man. I too have older software that I would have liked to use on my Vista desktop. But I could not get it too work. In one case, it was AutoCAD Architectural Desktop. That program to buy new is about $3100.00. Even the lesser CAD program used at my former job (DataCAD) wouldn't work with Vista and there again the replacement cost $1300.

I've not had any problems with smaller programs or GRprograms (I have both GR3 and GRanalyst on Vista. My specs are the best (an HP mini-tower), so I only can run a few big programs at a time.

I hope you find a solution, sometime before chase season. Also make sure you get a system and software that can edit HD OK. I'm pretty sure Premiere 6.5 won't do it, but I believe CS3 or CS4 can. If CS3 can, just use that....CS4 isn't worth the money for most folks.

[cdcollura]

Good day,

That was pretty much what I did over the holidays as I got two PC's up and running (including the laptop "failure" described here).

I initially got a desktop at TigerDirect and am very pleased with it. I tried the 32-bit Vista and some stuff worked on it, others did not (without costly upgrades). The desktop screams with quad-core 2.8 Ghz (each), HDMI 512 MB video, 22-n-1 card reader with floppy drive (to back up the hgard drives?), twin DVD, one with litescribe the other Blue-Ray, and two 1.5 TB hard drives (yup, 3,000 GB = That's over 4 MILLION 720k floppies if I wanna back it up) ;-)

Installing Vista did not see the large SATA drives, and the format process failed right before the "intstall" process of Vista "on a new machine". The XP Pro disk, however, DID see the drives, formatted them (as C and D) and after that (a work-around), I was able to install Vista. The work-around was to "start" installing XP off the install CD, get to the point where it formats the main drive, and then (after the format is complete), break-out of the install, and then put in the Vista install (which saw the large HDD's and installed fine after) ... Or, as I did later, skip Vista and just continue installing XP Pro :-)

I notified Microsoft on this, and they DID get back to me with a hotfix. It was en email with a link to a zip file and password for it - I was so excited. The password to the zip file for the hot-fix did NOT work (a typo) ... Yup that's soooo typical.

Notifying them that the password did not work was about a month ago, still waiting. Meanwhile the desktop has long since been fixed to my liking, and after that I fore-gone with Vista on the desktop and installed XP Pro. Speed is the same, maybe faster than Vista 32, and - most importantly - it runs like a champ (with 99% of everything working fine).

Also, I am contemplating between CS3 and CS4 myself for adobe. Yeah, it's pricey, but I'm tired of using copied software anyway.

As for the laptop (the one I returned), I was unable to get XP Pro on it because the install blue-screened (the same XP Pro install that works so fine on my desktop). This might be a SATA hard-drive driver issue? My patience ran out and I already brought the unit back to Best Buy before I went into farther detail.

Best Buoy was a mistake ... I would never buy there again, and the "customer is right" will NOT work there. Trust me, I tried, but I might be able to deny the $125 fee on my Amex (if it's worth it).

Best Buy used to take such back with no hassles. This time, restock fee was 15% plus the $39.99 "optimization" package - Ouch! I tried to make every excuse and such ... Nearly made a scene ... But just walked out and let it go (later spoke with Amex for my Buyer's Assurance I have on my card - The same one that saved me $$$ thousands for hail destruction on my rental this past May near Pratt)!

The "Fresh" option is good and worth noting with the Vaio's. But you have to order on-line to get it, and I found the $800 laptop on SonyStyle was over $1,200 with the same options it had.

Also, this might be related to Vista 64 bit, and the extras that were supposedly "optimized" by Best Buy's "Geek Squat" at no extra charge (sigh). I definitely will research this more for a laptop only with XP Pro and what I need (or with ONLY Vista and service packs).

Even more so, and as agreeing with Foster's comments as well, my g/f in Chicago is an architect and considering the Vista / laptop I HAD ... A quick email with some of this "material" in this link changed her mind fast!

Thanks again...

[Mike Peregrine]

I have Vista 64-bit and have had nothing but issues, not just with software and peripherals, but with performance. Frequent lockups, and I have had to reformat twice now after entering fatal loops. Last week I lost several hundred photos that I hadn't had the chance to relocate to the external drive. Next machine will most definitely be a Mac. I don't know why I didn't go ahead and get one this time.

[Joey Ketcham]

I have Vista 64-bit and have had nothing but issues, not just with software and peripherals, but with performance. Frequent lockups, and I have had to reformat twice now after entering fatal loops. Last week I lost several hundred photos that I hadn't had the chance to relocate to the external drive. Next machine will most definitely be a Mac. I don't know why I didn't go ahead and get one this time.

Odd, I have Vista 64-bit installed on two different computers and my brother is also running Vista 64-bit and neither of us are having frequent lockups. It doesn't sound like Vista is the problem, sounds more like maybe the hard drive is giong bad. In the past 5 months I've been using Vista I've not ever had it lock up on me.

[Mike Peregrine]

I had a computer tank during chase season and bought another (top of the line gaming laptop), in which the hard drive went bad a week later. Took it back and got this one. Having two hard drives go bad in two great laptops would be pretty rare. This one has a terrific Asus motherboard. It would take a whole lot of hard selling at this point to make me believe that Vista wasn't the worst thing Microsoft has ever done to their users.

[David Drummond]

It would take a whole lot of hard selling at this point to make me believe that Vista wasn't the worst thing Microsoft has ever done to their users.

How quickly we forget WindowsME. Now THAT was the worst thing they ever did to us!

[Ryan McGinnis]

I had a computer tank during chase season and bought another (top of the line gaming laptop), in which the hard drive went bad a week later. Took it back and got this one. Having two hard drives go bad in two great laptops would be pretty rare. This one has a terrific Asus motherboard. It would take a whole lot of hard selling at this point to make me believe that Vista wasn't the worst thing Microsoft has ever done to their users.

It's actually not that weird -- if hard drives are going to fail due to defect, they usually fail soon after you start using them. If you were to graph disk failures over time, you'd find a great number of disks failing out of the box and in the first couple weeks, then a precipitous drop in failures, followed by a slow upward progression of the line over time.

AFAIK, there is nothing in the world that software can do to mechanically break a hard drive (unless it can somehow write to the drive's firmware), so I don't think Vista was the culprit to your drive woes.

[Mike Peregrine]

One of the biggest things with Vista, I feel, is that it overcomplicates all of the basic things the ordinary joe user wants to do with a computer. It's hard for us in this forum to really put this in perspective, because most of us are gear heads and tech geeks ... but an OS is really just intended to be a platform in which to run applications, and in my opinion should be as transparent to the user as possible. Vista is anything but.

I blogged a story about my experiences with it several months ago here (http://stormseason.blogspot.com/2008/08/thoughts-on-windows-vista.html).

One of the comments I received was good, and what got me to start thinking in the above lines of the typical user's perspective on something like their OS - -


All in all, a major step backwards in providing transparency to the end-user. Isn't that what computer OS's are supposed to do? Be as transparent as possible and get the hell out of the way so we can do whatever we want to do.

Speaking of which (and getting back to your home issue), "whatever we want to do" for most home users generally consists of browsing the Internet, storing/creating pictures, e-mail, maybe watching a movie or two, and a few games.

Why is it then Windows is so poor at all of these. Microsoft has to practically be dragged kicking and screaming before they update IE, their lack of multimedia driver support is (still) lacking, Outlook you have to buy separate, WMP doesn't include even the basic codecs by default (and you have to hunt to find them), and the games are pathetic. And speaking of pathetic...how is it possible no state has yet declared fraud for that snake oil.

...and in the midst of all this, we get told by Microsoft that we are complete idiots. We "mojave" jokees are the focus of Microsoft's absolutely brilliant ad campaign. Much like the Geico caveman, us Vista-realists have also now been informed by Microsoft that we are soooo incredibly dumb about the inner workings (of our previously working inner workings mind you), that we now believe the earth is flat.

Brilliant Microsoft. $300 Million was a lot to get the message across to us, but $300 Million might be just barely enough to get it across to us all how stupid Microsoft really feels we are.

[Dan Cook]

Never had a problem with Vista.

Only real laptop problems I've had was with Dell; had 2 AC ports coming unsodered on 2 different laptops that kept breaking.

[Will Wilkens]

How quickly we forget WindowsME. Now THAT was the worst thing they ever did to us!


Yikes! Yessiree, it sure was. It was a bastardization of the Windows 2000 front-end slapped on top of the Windows 98 SE engine.

And leave it to Microsoft to provide confusing version numbers (in order of release):

Windows 1.x
Windows 2.x
Windows/Workgroups/NT 3.x
Windows 95 is Windows ????
Windows NT 4.0 Workstation/Server is Windows 4.0
Windows 98/SE is ????
Windows ME is...?????
Windows 2000 Workstation/Server is Windows 5.0
Windows XP is Windows 5.1
Windows Server 2003 is Windows 5.2
Windows Vista is Windows 6.0
Windows Server 2008 is Windows 6.1

and....upcoming Windows "7" will be Windows 7.0

[Rob Wadsworth]

One of the best Windows O/S - IMHO - is Xp 64. I have that on my main box. It is essentially Windows 2003 Server. A fast, clean O/S second to none. It can run more RAM than Xp can. Xp can run a max of 4Gb/RAM; while you can use huge amounts of RAM for serving with either Xp 64 or 2003 Server. I just need 2Gb on Xp though, but it is the fastest I can give it and it moves superb...

[Ben Holcomb]

I could be wrong, but wouldn't running Vista 32 bit solve a lot of his incompatibility issues? I still don't understand what everyones obsession with running 64-bit is. 64>32 so therefore it must be better?

- Ben (Who still runs 32 bit Linux and Windows Vista)

[Joey Ketcham]

I still don't understand what everyones obsession with running 64-bit is. 64>32 so therefore it must be better?


Correct, 64-bit is better than 32-bit but not because 64 is greater than 32 but because 64-bit increases overall performance. 64-bit utilizes more memory than 32-bit which minimizes the time spent swapping processes in and out of memory since it is able to store more processes into memory.

Another advantage of using 64-bit, and to me the most important is that 64-bit can handle RAM above 4GB which isn't accessible by 32-bit version of Vista. Since my computer runs 6GB of RAM I would lose 2GB if I switched to Vista 32-bit.

So the answer as to why people chose 64-bit over 32-bit is because of better performance.

[cdcollura]

Good day,

The 32-bit and 64-bit versions of Vista have pros and cons on each end.

A 32 bit OS, memory wise, can access up to 4,294,967 kilo bytes (K), or about 4 GB and that's about it. For 64 bit numbers, that's up to 18,446,744,073,709,552 K (or 18,446,744 TB) which obviously us "unlimited" in terms of memory. In comparison, the old Z-80, 6502 processors were 8-bit, which is about 256K max.

Vista, having a wider address space (64 instead of 32) can ONLY take full advantage of CPU power if it is a true 64-bit architecture (such as the new Pentium duo / quad core CPU's).

Most importantly, MOST programs optimized for 16 / 32 bit (for example, Adome Premiere 6.x and earlier) may NOT run (or even install) in Vista 64 bit.

In the case of 32 bit Vista, MANY of 32 bit programs will work (the ones that do not are because of dependancy files, such as DLL's and such).

If one goes with Vista 32, a SLIGHT lack of performance may be noted, as well as any RAM over 4 GB not being "seen" by the OS, but many programs should still work.

If one goes with Vista 64, more RAM over 4 GB and a higher performance (given the CPU) will be noted, but MANY programs, including the ones you used for years, may not work (or not even install).

Windows XP Pro is essentially a 32 bit operating system very similar to Vista, but with much more compatibility. XP Pro can also "see" up to 4 GB of RAM as Vista 32 can.

The major con, obviously, with Vista 64 is that you basically have to set up your PC and buy all new software to replace the programs that "used" to run when you have XP Pro / Vista 32.

[Joey Ketcham]

Good day,
The major con, obviously, with Vista 64 is that you basically have to set up your PC and buy all new software to replace the programs that "used" to run when you have XP Pro / Vista 32.

All software I used on XP 32-bit runs fine on Vista 64-bit, I've yet to encounter any software problems as a result of running Vista 32-bit. That's not to say you won't have to buy 64-bit versions of some software, you will, but not all. I've yet to have to buy anything new because of Vista.

[cdcollura]

Good day,

That is really strange as that I could not get Premiere 6.5 to run in Vista 64. It worked in Vista 32 but would not even install on Vista 64. I will have to try setting up a "test" PC for such things.

Getting back to the laptop, which had Vista 64 on it, and frustrated me so much I brought it back to Best Buy and ate the restock-fee, I am becoming more conviced that my "sour laptop" simply had so much crap on it (worsened by "geek squad's optimization / WTF stuff") to be the culprit. Next time I will make sure my laptop has Vista AND ONLY Vista on it before making bad calls about the OS.

I see many have had good luck with Vista, now I am wondering what will (and will not run) on XP, Vista 32, and Vista 64.

LOL ... Wait until Windows 7 - What's that gonna do?

[Mike Peregrine]

Wait until Windows 7 - What's that gonna do?

With any luck, hopefully Microsoft will actually make it WORK this time. ;)

[Ben Holcomb]

I am very familiar with the differences between 32 and 64 bit. I work in the IT industry. The fact that a 32bit os can only use 4GB of RAM is a lie. The server I run my website on has 8 gigs of ram and a 32 bit kernel

Linux xen.bholcomb.com 2.6.18-53.1.6.el5xen #1 SMP Wed Jan 23 12:33:37 EST 2008 i686 athlon i386 GNU/Linux

It sees all 8 gigs of RAM just fine. Windows could be designed the same way, but why should they when they can just sell you a 'More Gooder More Newer More Betterer!!!!!!!!!!!111111' OS.

I have found many driver issues with 64 bit operating systems, both in the Linux/UNIX world and Windows. I'll stick with 32-bit until something or someone can convince me that my headache to performance ratio will be worth it :)

[Jerry Prsha]

Sorry but this is Microsoft to me at a glance...

http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/12/31/zune.player.failures/index.html

[rdale]

NWS isn't doing much better - they forgot about the changeover too...

NOUS71 KNCF 312117
ADANCF
.
PLEASE PASS TO THE FORECASTERS AND LEAD FORECASTERS:
.
SUBJECT: NWRWAVES 2009 PRODUCT EXPIRATION ISSUE
.
THE NCF IS AWARE OF AN NWRWAVES APPLICATION ISSUE WHERE
PRODUCTS EXPIRING IN 2009 ARE NOT BEING PROCESSED CORRECTLY.
HOWEVER, PRODUCTS EXPIRING BY THE END OF 2008 ARE PROCESSED
CORRECTLY.
.
SITES CAN SUCCESSFULLY WORKAROUND THIS PROBLEM BY ISSUING A
PRODUCT VIA NWRWAVES WITH AN EXPIRATION ENDING IN 2008. SITES
CAN THEN ISSUE THE PRODUCT AGAIN AFTER 00Z WITH AN EXPIRATION
IN 2009.
.
PLEASE MAKE SURE THAT THE FORECASTERS STAGGER THE
EXPIRATION OF ALL NWRWAVES PRODUCTS?..
.
IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS CALL THE NCF.
.
THANK YOU.
.
NCF/JAB

[Joey Ketcham]

I am very familiar with the differences between 32 and 64 bit. I work in the IT industry. The fact that a 32bit os can only use 4GB of RAM is a lie. The server I run my website on has 8 gigs of ram and a 32 bit kernel

Linux xen.bholcomb.com 2.6.18-53.1.6.el5xen #1 SMP Wed Jan 23 12:33:37 EST 2008 i686 athlon i386 GNU/Linux

It sees all 8 gigs of RAM just fine. Windows could be designed the same way, but why should they when they can just sell you a 'More Gooder More Newer More Betterer!!!!!!!!!!!111111' OS.

I have found many driver issues with 64 bit operating systems, both in the Linux/UNIX world and Windows. I'll stick with 32-bit until something or someone can convince me that my headache to performance ratio will be worth it :)

There are certain versions of Windows that can support more than 4GB of memory, but adding more than 4GB of memory still doesn't change the fact that it is a 32-bit processor accessing a 32-bit memory space. Even if there is more than 4GB of memory each process still has the normal 2GB virtual address space, and the kernel address space is still 2GB, just as on a normal non-PAE system.

A 64-bit system will out perform a 32-bit system, that is why I choose a 64-bit system over 32-bit. I honestly have not ever had any problems using a 64-bit system, I work in IT as well and we run 64-bit systems and never have problems.

[Penny Lehner]

I bought a Toshiba laptop with Vista on it. I tried it for a week and returned it. I just didn't like it! It was slow to say the least.

So I went and bought a MacBook. I am still learning the ins and outs of it but so far I like it. It is screaming fast with my internet card. My only real problem with it is the new touchpad. The whole touchpad is also the push pad. I keep clicking on crap I don't want. So I am taking this winter to get used to it before I find myself in a bad situation this spring and I keep loading unwanted screens.:D

I am pretty much done with windows. Everytime they release a new OS it is worse than the last one.

[Rob Wadsworth]

I bought a Toshiba laptop with Vista on it. I tried it for a week and returned it. I just didn't like it! It was slow to say the least.

So I went and bought a MacBook. I am still learning the ins and outs of it but so far I like it. It is screaming fast with my internet card. My only real problem with it is the new touchpad. The whole touchpad is also the push pad. I keep clicking on crap I don't want. So I am taking this winter to get used to it before I find myself in a bad situation this spring and I keep loading unwanted screens.:D

I am pretty much done with windows. Everytime they release a new OS it is worse than the last one.
I know that Windows-based laptops can use a wireless optical mouse plugged into a USB port. I use that on chases, as I cannot stand using the touchpad. The optical/wireless mouse is outstanding. But I would hope that you can use a regular cable-type optical mouse on the Mac - and have the Mac O/S recognize it without any difficulty - too!
Just a thought...

[Mike Peregrine]

Bout time:

Is Microsoft Giving Up on Vista? (http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/01/08/microsoft.ballmer/index.html)

[J Kinkaid]

Windows 7 is great and very fast and runs all the current weather apps. The Public beta will start tomorrow so make your system a dual boot and try it out .

[Rob Wadsworth]

To think it had to go this far...
I wonder if MicroSoft will exchange my Vista discs for the new Window 7.
That would be a fair thing to do, considering that their reputation is based on a piece of plastic and a random code number. That's not asking too much from them, when one considers what money I wasted already on Vista.
If they don't voluntarily go there, then they have created a grand scam and gotten away with it.
OR - Time for a class-action suit if they don't make amends!

[David Drummond]

Then of course some of us as happy with Vista, think it runs great, and aren't really having any problems with it and don't feel scammed at all.

Sure there were some issues when it first came out that probably should have been ironed out before launch, but those seem to have been addressed in SP1. But by then it suffered from mob mentality about how horrible it was and all that jazz. I hear people say that all the time, then I ask when the last time they used it was, and more often than not, they have never even tried it. They are just going off something someone else said.

I've been working with computers and operating systems since the TI99/4a, and I have seen an unbelievable amount of software and operating systems come and go. I can honestly say, the vast majority of the time when I helped someone with their issue it came down to just 2 things.

1) User error/unfamiliarity of the product
2) User trying to use outdated software on a newer OS, or a newer software/OS on a system that wasn't up to the task.


You just can't go throwing software that is 3 or 4 generations old on newer machines/operating systems and expect there to not be issues. Software doesn't have an unlimited shelf life, unless you are content to keep using an outdated system or OS.

I have some great old programs lying around somewhere that will run GREAT on Windows 3.1 (in fact I still have the floppy discs of Windows 3.1 some place) but I certainly don't expect them to run on Windows XP or Vista.

[Rob Wadsworth]

I pretty much agree with you David. OK, the 'scam' statement was a bit over the top. I don't think they intentionally meant it to be a scam. They have a reputation of customers that depend upon them to run their businesses and home boxes on. If I were one of the honchos at MS, I would want to generate new business and re-assure past customers by making it right with them. But, if they cannot at least be willing to exchange Vista discs for a reasonable exchange; then they have taken something from their customers ('money') and left us without a remedy. Or have they?

Class action suit? Could be; those are legitimate reasons for asking them to comply. I don't why they wouldn't at least offer to do this - as it would do a lot to shore up any bad feelings and frustration they may have caused. Of course, they just can't come out and say 'Gee; it was a big mistake and we are flogging those involved in writing this O/S". But if they offered to exchange the disc at any local software supplier - I'll bet their stock value would shoot up at least a few points. They have the opportunity to gain a lot and lose a little. That's just good business, and a good business practice I think.

[David Drummond]

But, is it really their fault when it's user error? I think they made good when they got SP1 out relatively quickly to fix many things that people were having problems with. I don't really see how blame can be placed on them for old systems, or mis-perceptions about the product from people who never used it.

They launched the Windows Mojave campaign, and everyone that tried it LOVED it, and were quite surprised to learn it was actually Vista.

My point is, I truly believe Vista suffered (suffers) from:

A) A bit of a buggy launch, which was mostly rectified with SP1.
B) A heck of a lot of user ignorance and the general discomfort people feel when changing major ground on something like an OS (pretty much all Windows versions have gone through that). (In this I include those trying to run it on machines that really can't handle it, and trying to run old software on it.)
C) A whole heck of a lot of bandwagon bad-mouthing from people who either never tried it or really ever gave it a chance.

Bottom line, it works differently than what people were comfortable with in XP, and it doesn't always run software that was developed prior to Vista. I'm not so sure that's a bad thing. I think if I can have it running just fine on 5 machines here, with pretty much no issues, that it just can't be that hard for others to do it. My machines are healthy, but not exactly top of the line. The last one to go was my sig other's machine (Dell) which bit the dirt after xmas. She protested loudly about Vista, about how she didn't like it, blah blah blah. She's been on it a couple weeks now and I hardly hear a peep out of her about it, when before I always hear a lot about how she was having problems in XP with something.

[Rob Wadsworth]

I think that the MS folks have thrown up their hands and said "We give up; we can't fix it and we need to overhaul it for the masses that aren't computer savvy enough to be able to fix it on their own". But in all honesty; that isn't the whole story.

Windows 7 is probably all that worked/looked like in Vista with Xp underneath. Can't and won't say that is for sure, but its got to be something close to it. The myriads of hardware mfr people that write the machine language (for motherboards, video cards, etc, etc, Not to forget the software mfr's - too) are going to have massive quantities of kittens if that is true. We will see; what else can we do but watch and wait? Is there any driver support for Windows 7 - now that the beta testing is starting tomorrow - as I understand it to happening then? I wouldn't mind downloading a beta copy and putting it on a spare drive that I have. Could be pretty interesting. But that depends on how they have it set up - would we need to burn as an ISO file - or has it included the option to re-partition the drive to have a dual-boot function? I'm gonna go check it out now...

[David Drummond]

I think MS have thrown up their hands and said "We give up; we can't fix it and we need to overhaul it for the masses that aren't computer savvy enough to be able to fix it on their own".

Again, your going with the thought that it's inherently broken. Clearly it's not, or I wouldn't have 5 machines running it without issue.

Even if MS thought it was broken (which I am sure they don't), you won't hear them saying so publicly. To do so would be to admit fault in something that could cost them billions by doing so. Not going to happen. I wouldn't expect any discounts any more than you got when upgrading Windows from any other version, or any other software for that matter.

[cdcollura]

I think we ALL will be happier if the folllwing is done (with MS Windows, and any other OS, but especially Windows)...

1). If it ain't broken, don't fix it (any programmer knows that, right).

2). Standardize the OS ... Keep 16 bit (and 32 bit support).

3). Have it tested in a real-world environment with real users, not a lab or campus.

Note: I agree that 99% of new PC problems are NOT Vista, or the OS per se, but the GARBAGE trial software and junk it comes with.

Many responses to this thread clearly state no problems with Vista, problems that stopped me dead in my case ... So I am thinking removing all the trial software hosed something, like a DLL or dependacy file.

I strongly suggest a "fresh" or clean install, I bet that's what Drummond did.

I built a PC from scratch and had Vista on it and no problems, just some minor issues. The laptop had other crap on it (60 day trial, then spend $600 to activate it or I'll delete "*.dll" from your C:\Windows\System32 directory).

[David Drummond]

I strongly suggest a "fresh" or clean install, I bet that's what Drummond did.

I built a PC from scratch and had Vista on it and no problems, just some minor issues. The laptop had other crap on it (60 day trial, then spend $600 to activate it or I'll delete "*.dll" from your C:\Windows\System32 directory).

You bet I did! I have ZERO use for all the bloatware and trial offers and other misc BS that comes with every single manufactured PC on the market, as far as I know.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=120228

The best guide I have found for a clean Vista install, I've used it several times and it works.

I've ALWAYS done a clean install on every PC I didn't build myself, and of course those were by nature clean installs.

The downfall of course is if your under warranty, they might not want to help you out if you have sort of software related issue, then again they might. If you have to send it in, you can bet they probably will put it back with a recovery disc.

As far as I know the only way to get around that is to build your own system, which is just about impossible for a lot of people. Then again, if your capable of that, you generally aren't the type of user who needs tech support from a manufacturer most of the time.

Don't be surprised if you don't get Premier 6.5 to work on Vista. It's two or three generations old now. I can tell you that CS3 and 4 work fine.

[Rob Wadsworth]

EDIT: I'm downloading "Windows 7" via Bit Torrent, should be done by tonite some time. It's an ISO file; so I will burn a disc and run my empty backup hard drive as the boot drive thru the motherboard BIOS. I'll play with it for a couple of days, and write a review on it and start a thread. Looks like Windows 7 is Windows 2003 Server (64 bit) with a GUI that LOOKS like Vista. Or, at least that as much as I have been able to gather at this point.

[Marc Rémillard]

I hate vista, and I have very good friends. Let me explain.

We all know that today's PC are coming with Vista, but I know someone working at Microsoft, and this guy did a kind of home-made service pack of XP Pro, removing all the useless stuff that comes with windows, to make a never-seen-before stable version. I'm using this amazing windows version and I can tell you there's a true difference in speed and stability. Like in a mac, there is almost no need of antivirus...

Many people I know bought a laptop coming with vista. I found a way to uninstall vista and I installed my amazing Windows version, and they love it!

[cdcollura]

EDIT: I'm downloading "Windows 7" via Bit Torrent, should be done by tonite some time. It's an ISO file...

How the heck to you get these bit torrent stuff?

Just doing a search on bit torrent turns up nothing!!

[J Kinkaid]

Why would you download it from a torrent when it's up on the microsoft site for free ?


http://keznews.com/5230_Windows_7_public_beta_Official_download_links

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/

[Chris Strahan]

now if only they could keep the links stable. Keep timing out. I suppose I am one of thousands wanting to download....

[Rob Wadsworth]

I downloaded and burned a copy of Widows 7 x32 & x64; put the x32 on an empty drive. J Kinkaid's second link shown above was faster and didn't need Bit Torrent to download. That is a good link!

Looks pretty and hasn't caved in on itself. "Aero" type display is nice. It installs pretty easy, I'll say that much at this point, easier by far to date of any MS ware. I haven't put any software/programs on it yet - though. That will be the real acid test - "compatibility". Do I sound skeptical? Just look at it as being gun shy. Yes Sir...

[Chris Strahan]

microsofts site now is up and running with more servers. downloading now as well

[Dan Cook]

Bah you can't install Windows 7 on an external HD.

[J Kinkaid]

Bah you can't install Windows 7 on an external HD.

But you can make your system dual boot and run it that way or on vmware. The only weather program that I have found that doesn't work is the new weather defender from Swift weather but Rory says he will fix that .

[Rob Wadsworth]

One bit of news on Windows 7. If you put any kind of program on it and remove it, it may lock up. Mine did. One would think by now that MS would have been able to make the O/S stable enough to be able to remove programs cleanly.
Message for MicroSoft: Get it RIGHT! Not everyone that owns a computer is a propeller head - you got to make it work in the real world...

[Dan Cook]

One bit of news on Windows 7. If you put any kind of program on it and remove it, it may lock up. Mine did. One would think by now that MS would have been able to make the O/S stable enough to be able to remove programs cleanly.
Message for MicroSoft: Get it RIGHT! Not everyone that owns a computer is a propeller head - you got to make it work in the real world...

This is a beta so of course their will be bugs.

[cdcollura]

Good day all,

Remember all the BS with the Vista / Laptop?

Well, I ate it and bought Vista Ultimate and installed it in a dual-boot / test bed on my Desktop after throwing in another HD and additional 4 GB (8 total) of RAM.

On one side is XP Pro (32 bit) with all my old stuff, and Vista 64 Ultimate on the other (500 GB disk is partitioned into 2 equal 250 GB units). The dual boot is where the OS chosen from a menu as the machine boots up.

The 2 1.5 TB drives are the additional SATA disks - data only, G: and H: - And the "my documents" directory is on one of them G: - So whether you boot XP Pro or Vista 64, you can see the same path for my files, music, pictures, etc.

Now experiementing with Vista 64, which was also on my new Sony laptop I returned to Best Buy (in a virtual rage) several months back ... I attempted to test / install those SAME programs on the Vista 64 partition on my desktop.

All of them loaded fine, into the "program files [386]" directory (non-64 bit). They ran OK, no errors, no installs bugging out and failing. I was so suprised ... and pleased.

Premiere 6.5, Corel Photo Paint, Adobe Audition, Avast AV all failed when trying to put them on the 64-bit Vista laptop back in late December. Either they would not install at all (with a fatal error) and / or would not run.

The only issue I noticed that my Lexmark 3850 driver (64 bit) was having problems in Vista, but I print / scan from the XP partition, so I did not really care much. After some finaggling, I was able to get it working in a limited fashion on the Vista platform.

In conclusion, I found that the problem was not Vista ... As I was to the point yelling and cussing Microsoft after returning the laptop and eating the 10% fees ... But the GARBAGE these compaies pre-install on these things!!

When you get a new laptop / desktop, it comes LOADED with trial-versions, limited-edition software ... Such as Microsoft Works, 60-day trials, etc.

Normally, removing these programs - Thinking you'll get a virgin OS afterwards is a mis-conception. This also removes some drivers, DLL's, and components.

Then, when you have spent hours and think you have a clean slate, you begin installing stuff, and that's when the bald spots get bigger. Nothing but frustration.

Always get a new Desktop / Laptop with a CLEAN OS ... Only the operating system (whether XP or Vista) AND the drivers solely for the computer ... No MS Works, no Google Toolbars, no Trials, nothing - Just the OS / drivers !!

Also, be careful when installing Windows ... This is besides a "copy a buddy" might have given you ... I installed windows on my desktop, then went to do it on my laptop, and got a message saying I could not re-use the license.

Ofcourse, I am getting a different approach, and buy each license for each computer I am putting it on. In the case of the second license above, Microsoft support was even able to give me a second key for it!

Microsoft is cracking down really hard on licensing and potential piracy - So everyone who is doing that, you won't get very far (like you did in Napster 1.0's days) ;-)

[Ben Holcomb]

Vista has been working just fine for me at home and on my chase laptop. I've got 2 separate licenses, like you're supposed to. (1 per PC)

I always format machines that come preinstalled with anything. Typically it's pre-installed with annoying software. My acer came pre-installed with all sorts of crap, and partitioned off weird. I just wiped all that out and run it with my fresh copy of Vista Ultimate.

Still not sure why you're running ancient versions of software, but glad to hear it's working.

[Tony Perkins]

Still not sure why you're running ancient versions of software, but glad to hear it's working.

Simple answer is because it works. Corporate America is still largely XP because of this. Not everyone wants to go spend $200+ to get the latest shiny product when a new version is released, if their current one is working just fine.

And for ancient, you must be pretty young if XP is ancient. I have a Vic-20 and Amiga in the basement. :)

[David Drummond]

I think he was referring to some of the software he was using was now 8-10 years old, which IS ancient in computer time scale.

[Ben Holcomb]

Yeah, Premiere 6.5 is probably 8-10 years old at this point. I don't remember when it was released, but they've come a long ways in video editing to make it worth upgrading (Including better codecs and a much much friendlier interface)

[Dean Baron]

I have Vista on my laptop and so far no probems. The Geek Squad guy took off some of the securities when we bought and I think that really made a difference.

I also noticed while wandering around Best Buy a couple times that some companies are also starting to sell laptops pre-installed with XP again. I dont remember which brands they were, but if you look around you could probably find one. Also, when I was looking for a laptop last year I was looking around Dell's website and you can customize the computer you want, which included the option of XP or Vista. Not sure if they still do that, I'd imagine they do. But for anyone whos looking for a laptop right now and doesnt want Vista, there are some places to go to find laptops with XP instead of Vista.

[Jim Edds]

Chris: I'm running an HP 8710w dual core duo laptop at 2.5GHz, 2Gigs RAM that came with XP loaded - not VISTA like the advertisement said. Find one, call up HP and see what OS it comes with. I'm capturing/editing HD in real time with mine. This is the same laptop Edius uses for their turnkey editor. My next laptop will be a Mac with bootcamp.

[cdcollura]

Good day all,

If you can get it working (new) ... Great!

if you were using it for a while, and it WORKS - Keep it!

"Bleeding edge" technology is NOT always the best for some.

Heck, some guys are still using vacuum tube audio stuff.

[David Drummond]

True, but they don't stick them in the back of their 2500W, 7:1 surround system and expect it to work.