2/10/09 DISC: OK/AR/TX/MO/KS/LA

[Jim Leonard]

Just got off the phone with Ray Walker and Michael Ratlif they witnessed a large violent tornado after dark near Lone Grove Oklahoma. They described it as very large long track wedge, many power flashes. They were positioned about 3 miles north of the track of the tornado.

[John MacKay]

Even though there is a squall line screaming for Shreveport and a couple of tornado-warned storms in N AR as I post this, I think it is appropriate to start the post-storm discussion and the discussion (and news) on the direct hit Lone Grove took. As we get toward daybreak, we will know how bad the damage is. The entrances to the town being blocked off, this occurring at night, and being a fair-sized town remind me a little bit of the Greenburg experience, when we had to wait until the next morning to reveal what has been destroyed and what is still left behind.

The storms fired a little earlier than anticipated, which may have limited a little bit of the tornadic potential along the dryline. On the initial development, there were, of course, four supercells, but the first one was the winner as far as tornado potential, putting down the only tornado on a LSR.

Much of the development way off to east (SE OK, in the juice) didn't really get going, which may have been a bit of a surprise. This whole day was looking like a few tornadoes early and then the cold front throws a squall line screaming eastward.

But before that happened, a couple of supercells developed ahead of the line, one of which would change the outcome of the day from 'a bit of a bust for chasers' to 'sorry to see that happen.' That was obviously the one starting in N TX, crossing the Red River, and then trucking with a well-pronounced radar signature through Lone Grove and the northern reaches of Ardmore before getting swallowed by the line (almost the worst timing in that line getting to the supercell just after going by Ardmore). That supercell seemed to be the only one to really take in the conditions available and become a monster. Sadly, a town was square in its damage path.

The good news is the visiting basketball team in Lone Grove made it home safely. I'm hoping there are more bright spots in the morning, but at this moment, there are 3 confirmed dead with as many as 9 dead. My heart goes out to those affected.

[Connor McCrorey]

I was on the Lone Grove supercell from it's tiny beginnings near Jacksboro. It was such a relief to see something finally develop ahead of the DL, as all of the stuff to the west was linear and outflow-dominant. I can't say this is the way I expected the day to play out initially, but by early afternoon it was obvious what was going to have to happen for any good storms. Fortunately for us but unfortunately for the people of Lone Grove, everything came together just after sunset to produce this monster of a supercell.

[Tom Tackett]

My cousin was at that basketball game. He is known as the team's Honary Mascot. I am just glad that he did not try to leave early or drive home with the storm in progress. His wife, also my cousin rode the monster out in their underground storm cellar. No structural damage to their house but plenty of "untied" things blown around and some lost shingles. The main track begins a couple of blocks to the west of their house. They live right off of Brock Road just east of the main business district off of U. S. Hwy. 70. I praise God that they are all o.k. Cousin who was at game has relatives whose homes were obliterated and there are family members unaccounted for as of 12:00 Midnight. The following Photo is of me running for "cover" while in "enemy" OU Territory at this past Thanksgiving in Lone Grove at their home right off Brock Road. This is the cellar that housed several people. They got that cellar after the May 1995 Tornado that came close by and hit the Tire Factory (Uniroyal) now Michelin. That tornado also begin in Texas (north of Mineral Wells) and held together (likely cycled a few times) past Ardmore.
Tom N' Ft. Worth.

[Chris Foltz]

Sadly, it appears there were at least 15 fatalities in the community of Lone Grove tonight...

http://www.newsok.com/15-dead-in-lone-grove-tornado/article/3344899?custom_click=breaking_news

[Bryce Stone]

I understand that fast-moving, wide, violent, winter, nighttime tornadoes are dangerous, but I'm wondering why the death toll was so high in Lone Grove. Even in Greensburg, where an EF5 destroyed the vast majority of the town, only 11 died. Last year's Butler County, IA EF5 only took 9 lives.

In Oklahoma, our tornado fatalities are typically comparatively low, due most likely to a well-educated public and extensive media coverage. If the number of at least 15 fatalities in Lone Grove is correct, that (if my memory serves me well) will be the most people killed by tornadoes in a single year in Oklahoma since 1999 (almost ten years ago).

Of course, only last February 57 people died in a 12-hour timespan during multiple tornadoes in several states, so there is recent precedent for this type of event . . . but in Oklahoma? That is what makes this event unusual to me.

Of course I don't know the circumstances in Lone Grove yet, but I still think the death toll is unusually high for an Oklahoma tornado. I'm interested in finding out what factors (other than those I listed at the beginning of the post) led to such a high fatality count.

[Kiel Ortega]

I understand that fast-moving, wide, violent, winter, nighttime tornadoes are dangerous, but I'm wondering why the death toll was so high in Lone Grove. Even in Greensburg, where an EF5 destroyed the vast majority of the town, only 11 died. Last year's Butler County, IA EF5 only took 9 lives.

In Oklahoma, our tornado fatalities are typically comparatively low, due most likely to a well-educated public and extensive media coverage. If the number of at least 15 fatalities in Lone Grove is correct, that (if my memory serves me well) will be the most people killed by tornadoes in a single year in Oklahoma since 1999 (almost ten years ago).

Of course, only last February 57 people died in a 12-hour timespan during multiple tornadoes in several states, so there is recent precedent for this type of event . . . but in Oklahoma? That is what makes this event unusual to me.

Of course I don't know the circumstances in Lone Grove yet, but I still think the death toll is unusually high for an Oklahoma tornado. I'm interested in finding out what factors (other than those I listed at the beginning of the post) led to such a high fatality count.
A couple of online news stories I read said something about the sirens not sounding. One even saying some people were caught outside in a UPS Store parking lot during the tornado. I even saw one guy (who was affected by the OKC-Edmond tornado) on a TV news story saying he wasn't really expecting a tornado since it was Feb! I would be willing to bet a combination of a breakdown in the IWS and just a normalcy bias led to the fatalities. I don't know what the TV is like down in Lone Grove (I'm guessing they have OKC stations), but there were not many break-ins on the station I was watching. I flipped a couple of times to other stations and didn't see any BIG live coverage (of at least radar and the warnings) of the storm down near Lone Grove--which is really unfortunate since I've seen more coverage on crap-vection that goes over OKC.

[Chris C Sanner]

Ardmore-Lone Grove area is in the Sherman-Denison market, so KXII and KTEN are their primary sources of info, although they do get OKC stations too. KOCO was wall to wall while the storm went through the area too FWIW.

OHP reporting 8 people dead, 43 injured...

[Stephen Locke]

I understand that fast-moving, wide, violent, winter, nighttime tornadoes are dangerous, but I'm wondering why the death toll was so high in Lone Grove. Even in Greensburg, where an EF5 destroyed the vast majority of the town, only 11 died. Last year's Butler County, IA EF5 only took 9 lives.

My guess is that Kansas and Iowa homes are usually built with basements.
I've noticed that many Oklahoma and Texas homes do not have basements.

[Angie Norris]

I also heard that the sirens didn't go off. I think the big factor here is that many of the victims lived in trailers. The news story reported that two trailer parks were hit.

[Heather Moser]

KOCO was wall-to-wall up until the Lone Grove circulation was into Johnston County. They didn't have very good radar coverage of that area, but I think they did a great job. Having lived in rural Kansas most of my life I appreciate when tv stations pay attention to dangerous storms outside of the immediate metro area.

[Andrew Stoller]

Does anyone have any info about NWS damage surveys and the EF-rating of this tornado yet? From the looks of some of the pics on the news, it looks like solid structure homes (not trailers) were knocked down to their foundations. Not solid slabs where the remaining debris of the house gets blown off the slab, but all the main walls collapsed into a big pile of rubble.

[Dustin Wilcox]

Hard to tell, but looking at the first pictures I have seen of the tornado (Lone Grove), it appears this was likely close to 1/2 mile wide at is largest, and had classic structure with a MASSIVE RFD wrapping around the tornado. Also appears as though the tornado was not at all shielded by rain, and took on a variety of shapes; given the tornado was clearly visible, hopefully some more detailed pictures surface...

OUN now has a Survey page, still no damage survey's however...
http://www.srh.noaa.gov/oun/wxevents/20090210/

[Verne Carlson]

I grabbed the reflectivity and velocity GR3 screen as the tornado was leaving the area. The couplet is striking.
http://www.stormchaserco.com/20090210_Radar_809pm_Reflect.jpg

http://www.stormchaserco.com/20090210_Radar_809pm_Veloc.jpg

[mikegeukes]

PRELIMINARY SURVEY INFORMATION / PAWNEE COUNTY OKLAHOMA
http://kamala.cod.edu/offs/KTSA/0902112214.nous44.html

[mikegeukes]

.PRELIMINARY SURVEY INFORMATION CONCERNING THE TORNADOES IN
CENTRAL AND SOUTHERN OKLAHOMA TUESDAY FEBRUARY 10...

AT LEAST THREE TORNADOES OCCURRED IN CENTRAL AND SOUTHERN OKLAHOMA
YESTERDAY AFTERNOON AND EVENING.

TORNADO THREE: THIS TORNADO REACHED EF4 INTENSITY ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF LONE GROVE
IMPLYING WINDS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD OF 170 MPH.
http://kamala.cod.edu/offs/KOUN/0902112241.nous44.html

[Dustin Wilcox]

Also now some radar grabs from OUN showing just how strong this couplet really was, ranks up there with some of the more impressive velocity images I have seen...
http://www.srh.noaa.gov/oun/wxevents/20090210/warningpolygons.php (http://www.srh.noaa.gov/oun/wxevents/20090210/)

[Matt Gingery]

http://i42.tinypic.com/2135et0.jpg

I managed to chase the cell from OKC into Pawnee. Had a massive wall cloud, and insane structure. If anyone chased up near Hominy Ok. area, then you probably ran into the tennis ball size hail. I managed to get video of the wall cloud, and hail. Hail covered the roads 2-3" deep in some areas. Just a massive HP cell.

[mikegeukes]

Some Media Links:
-KXII (http://www.kxii.com/) -Newspaper (http://www.ardmoreite.com/) -Ardmore
-KDFW (http://www.myfoxdfw.com/) -KTVT (http://cbs11tv.com/) -KXAS (http://www.nbcdfw.com/) -WFAA (http://www.wfaa.com/) -Dallas
-KFOR (http://www.kfor.com/) -KOCO (http://www.koco.com/) -KOKH (http://www.kokh.com/) -KWTV (http://www.kwtv.com/) -NewsOK (http://newsok.com/) -Oklahoma City

[Jon Davies]

The ADM RUC analysis profile associated with the Lone Grove supercell (with a little modification to reflect warmer /more moist surface conditions) was pretty darn impressive, particularly for early Feb in the plains. See:

http://davieswx.blogspot.com/

The early Feb time frame probably catching some people off guard, and the event being essentially after dark with mobile homes involved, likely contributed to the death toll. Sad.

Jon Davies

[Brian Stertz]

Looked like there was a small tongue of richer theta-e air poking right into that supercell's inflow zone. Saw this on the SPC Mesoscale page. Looked like it hit the best of all worlds there on the Red River and slightly off the dryline.

[Michael Ratliff]

Guys it tears me up on this subject. Because lives should not of been lost have had the sirens had gone off. I dont care what news networks say no sirens were sounded. I know i Passed through the very small center of town as the tornado was a half mile to our southwest.I called 911 as it was about 400 yards from the trailer park and the 911 operator acted surprised. I will posting pix and chase account in the proper thread. God bless all the familys and people who lost there lives. A very sad chase day for me .

[Bill Tabor]

Man that totally sucks Michael! Those people would have had to flee those trailers and either get out of the path or find substantial shelter. Sounds like many didn't have time. Do they have a siren? Some really small towns don't. At least you gave it a try to make a difference. At that point seems like calling 911 is all you could do.

Perhaps if I had continued to follow the cell to the Red...not sure if earlier warns would have helped as I think they had a warning near Ringgold? I found this cell when it was just a wispy crescent echo...hard to believe I let it go and it went on to do this...

Guess this does remind me though that it's not all fun and games out there. Sometimes what we do or don't do as chasers really can make a difference in other peoples lives.

[Brandon Goforth]

Man that totally sucks Michael! Those people would have had to flee those trailers and either get out of the path or find substantial shelter. Sounds like many didn't have time. Do they have a siren?

Yes, they have sirens and are operated by the Carter County Emergency Management...who REALLY screwed up big time. The storm was already tornado warned coming across the Red River, and why they did not take it seriously, I have no idea, especially with the events that took place in OKC just a few hours earlier. These people should have had at least a 15-20 minute warning easy. Ardmore's sirens went off late as well because I was talking to family, who live there, as it was happening. I have no idea what they were doing.

[Bob Hartig]

Michael, I can hear something of the pain you feel in your words. As terrible a calamity as the tornado was for the people in those trailers, it was also an awful thing for you to witness. I'm sorry for that that town, and my heart goes out to those who lost loved ones because no sirens were sounded. But I'm also sorry for you. Like Bill said, you did your best. I doubt anyone could have done more than what you've described. If it's any comfort, you don't know but that your efforts may have in fact saved a life or two.

[Jeff Passner]

I know this may seem weird to people, but even if they did sound the sirens it does NOT mean all the lives would be saved and injuries prevented. It does not mean every single person would have reacted and gone to a safer place. It is hopeful that they would have but who knows what difference it would have made.

Personally, this was the WORST possible case.. February tornadoes at night probably result in more deaths than any other tornado. It's just human nature to let your guard down in Februray... It gets dark early and even with warning, you just don't have the same focus or emphasis as you would in April or May when almost everyone in Oklahoma takes these things seriously.

I've never seen a study done but I would guess the highest rate of fatalities would be nighttime tornadoes in the "early" season. Yes, we get more deaths in April because there are more tornadoes, but I think Tuesday night was a worst-case situation.

[Jay McCoy]

I know this may seem weird to people, but even if they did sound the sirens it does NOT mean all the lives would be saved and injuries prevented. It does not mean every single person would have reacted and gone to a safer place. It is hopeful that they would have but who knows what difference it would have made.

It may not have saved all the lives but it could have saved a few. Even if sounding the sirens would have saved 1 life it would have been worth it. This storm was tornado warned for a long time. There is NO excuse for the county EM to not have known or not sounding the sirens.

I know here our OEM has specific guidelines. If there is a tornado warning for amarillo (potter/randall counties) the sirens are activated...period. Why evn bother to have sirens of your not going to sound them when a tornado has been confirmed.. And at night you take even fewer chances. They dropped the ball big time and should be held accountable to their citizens.

[Jeff Snyder]

These people should have had at least a 15-20 minute warning easy.

FWIW, they did have 30-40 minutes of warning! The first tornado warning for Carter County issued by the OUN NWSFO for that storm came out at 6:50 pm. At 7:15 pm, a new tornado warning was issued that specifically mentioned Lone Grove:

* AT 715 PM CST...NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE DOPPLER RADAR INDICATED A SEVERE THUNDERSTORM CAPABLE OF PRODUCING A TORNADO 7 MILES SOUTH OF WILSON...MOVING NORTHEAST AT 40 MPH.
* LOCATIONS IN THE WARNING INCLUDE ARDMORE...LONE GROVE...NORTHERN LAKE MURRAY...OVERBROOK AND WILSON.

I think the tornado came into Lone Grove near 7:28 pm, and a 7:31 pm Severe Weather Statement noted "AT 731 PM CST...DOPPLER RADAR AND STORM SPOTTERS OBSERVED A TORNADO NEAR LONE GROVE...MOVING NORTHEAST AT 35 MPH."

Now, it is a problem if the outdoor warning sirens did not go off. However, the residents did have warning if they had means to receive the warning. The OUN NWSFO did a good job with the warnings it seems, and Lone Grove was in the polygon for at least 10-13 minutes before the tornado hit (I don't think the town was in the first warning polygon issued at 6:50, but I'm not sure). Those who had weather radios or were tuned in to local media (TV, battery-operated radio, etc), or those that generally had a means by which to receive such a warning without a dependence on outdoor warning sirens, should have received ample warning. Nobody should *rely* on outdoor sirens to warn them, particularly since many are on AC power only (AFAIK - not as many have battery backup), which means that you are toast if power is cut to the siren and you rely solely on that siren to warn you of impending hazardous weather.

EDIT: I don't mean this to sound cold or not compassionate! I really am pained to hear that 7+ people died, and many more were injured. The sirens certainly SHOULD have sounded if they didn't, and the county emergency management officials should have been plenty prepared given the SPC outlook and tornado watch. However, it IS important to take your own safety into your own hands by making sure that you have a reliable and alternate/secondary means by which to receive a severe weather warning.

[Chris Nuttall]

It's entirely possible that there was some kind of malfunction that prevented the sirens from sounding. Maybe power was cut off, like Jeff mentioned. Many siren systems are activated by TELCO lines. If the phones were out, they couldn't be sounded. Let's not speculate or point finger until we know exactly what happened.

[Bryce Stone]

In this interview with KTEN news, Carter County Emergency Manager Ed Reed says that the tornado sirens did sound. I'm interested in hearing from a third source, since one person (eyewitness Ratliff) says they did not sound, and one person (Emergency Manager Reed) says they did. We need a tiebreaker here, although I do tend to put more stock in eyewitness accounts.

http://tinyurl.com/bxt6v7

[Dustin Wilcox]

Looked like there was a small tongue of richer theta-e air poking right into that supercell's inflow zone. Saw this on the SPC Mesoscale page. Looked like it hit the best of all worlds there on the Red River and slightly off the dryline.

The Mesoanalysis page did show that, and it was a pretty localized, though impressive poke, in fact it was one of the main things yesterday evening that caught my attention and I mentioned on pg. 7 of the NOW thread at around 6 p.m. or so, how it was poking and pooling right into the Ardmore area. Your right, it was as if everything was coming together in that localized area around Ardmore and points East, the only thing that prevented this from being an even larger tornado event, was the fact that the DL started surging East quickly enough to overtake the discrete cells shortly after they had reached the favorable environment, unfortunately it just wasn’t quick enough for the community of Lone Grove. Had the DL held off to the West just a tad longer, the Lone Grove cell, as well as the one just to its south, would have continued NE into the favorable environment while likely continuing to produce tornadoes.

[Jim Tang]

In this interview with KTEN news, Carter County Emergency Manager Ed Reed says that the tornado sirens did sound. I'm interested in hearing from a third source, since one person (eyewitness Ratliff) says they did not sound, and one person (Emergency Manager Reed) says they did. We need a tiebreaker here, although I do tend to put more stock in eyewitness accounts.

http://tinyurl.com/bxt6v7
I have heard other news sources say the sirens did not sound.

[Jason A.C. Brock]

If you live in Tornado Alley....even if ya dont.....get a scanner or a NOAA weather radio. There will be A SPOTTER MEETING THIS sATURDAy in Wichita falls.
NOT SURE THE LOCATION BUT YOU CAN EMAIL DAVID BAXLEY THE CHIEF METEOROLOGIST AT KSWO TV 7 FROM LAWTON BY EMAIL. THEY HAVE LINKS ON HOW TO CONTACT AS TO WHERE THE MEETING WILL BE.
I WOULD LIKE ALL AREA STORMSPOTTERS TO SHOW UP LETS GET PR STUFF TOGETHER BEFORE ANOTHER LO E GROVE SNEAKS UP ON US.

[Shane Adams]

In this interview with KTEN news, Carter County Emergency Manager Ed Reed says that the tornado sirens did sound. I'm interested in hearing from a third source, since one person (eyewitness Ratliff) says they did not sound, and one person (Emergency Manager Reed) says they did. We need a tiebreaker here, although I do tend to put more stock in eyewitness accounts.

http://tinyurl.com/bxt6v7

This is the second time I've heard that the sirens did in fact sound, the first time was from a victim. If Michael was barely ahead of the tornado (going through downtown with the tornado just a half-mile to his southwest), it's quite possible the power was cut to town before Michael made it there. I'm not trying to argue or dispute anything, I'm just raising a possible scenario.

As far as people taking the repsonsibility for personal safety upon themselves, I agree with Jeff whole-heartedly. I grew up in this area and all three major OKC stations are picked up down there, plus four more local stations from Ardmore/Ada/Wichita Falls. I called a friend of mine in Healdton (about 15 miles west of Lone Grove) when the storm was just crossing the Jefferson/Carter county line, and he said they were watching the weather on television and were well-aware of what was going on...so at least one station was doing coverage. On the other hand, my family (who have always been complacent about severe weather despite my being a chaser) had no clue what was happening when I first called them. Once I got them to turn on the television, they were giving me updates when I'd call to check their status, from information they were hearing on television. My aunt was even able to tell me how wide the tornado was based on spotter reports, the last time I called before telling them to take cover. So it's not like there wasn't plenty of warning barring the sirens...if they didn't sound.

I understand how situations like this can fire people up emotionally and make them seek blame, but IMO a tornado siren is the "last line of defense" and shouldn't be necessary as a standard alarm to get people aware/motivated. Yes, the county should be liable if in fact they failed to sound them, but it's hard for me to imagine they didn't. Living in Carter county for almost 20 years, those folks were always trigger-happy with tornado sirens. I can rememeber them even going off for SLW events several times. I guess eventually the facts will come out.

[Tom Tackett]

Here is the tiebreakder.

My cousin who lives on the East Side of Lone Grove right off of Brock Road just south of U. S. Hwy. 70 has a siren one street over from their street. She says that the sirens DID, I repeat, DDDIIIDDD Sound for this event. It was sometime between 7:15 and 7:20 according to her. Fact is, it was the sounding of the sirens that finally pushed her over the edge to round everyone up and get to the cellar along with several neighbors who decided to dive underground for this event.

I am Interested to KNOW where Michael R.'s location was when he says that he did not hear the Sirens.

I will do another post regarding the Siren situation later on.

My cousin does have that underground shelter there in Lone Grove and they (mainly she) have become rather weather savvy---she knows the Sirens.....it is less than 100 yards from her house.....you can see if from their front yard.

Tom N' Ft. Worth

[shane turner]

First off, It is very unfortunate that eight lives were lost to this devastating tornado. When I heard there were people missing I thought their may have been dozens of fatalities but I guess about everybody had been accounted for. It could have been worse but still it is sad anybody died from this monster tornado. Another thing, has their ever a tornado of this magnitude during the month of February. This tornado may have caught many people off guard because I hav not heard of many violent tornadoes in the plains during this time of the year.

[Chris C Sanner]

Don't know if you guys have seen this...but check out this radar image from KXII:

http://www.supercellhunting.com/images/lgradar.png

[Chris C Sanner]

First off, It is very unfortunate that eight lives were lost to this devastating tornado. When I heard there were people missing I thought their may have been dozens of fatalities but I guess about everybody had been accounted for. It could have been worse but still it is sad anybody died from this monster tornado. Another thing, has their ever a tornado of this magnitude during the month of February. This tornado may have caught many people off guard because I hav not heard of many violent tornadoes in the plains during this time of the year.
This was the most violent tornado ever for Oklahoma in Feb. but not unheard of as far as tornadoes in February go. Still very rare!

[David Yoho]

Here is the tiebreakder.

My cousin who lives on the East Side of Lone Grove right off of Brock Road just south of U. S. Hwy. 70 has a siren one street over from their street. She says that the sirens DID, I repeat, DDDIIIDDD Sound for this event. It was sometime between 7:15 and 7:20 according to her. Fact is, it was the sounding of the sirens that finally pushed her over the edge to round everyone up and get to the cellar along with several neighbors who decided to dive underground for this event.

I am Interested to KNOW where Michael R.'s location was when he says that he did not hear the Sirens.

I will do another post regarding the Siren situation later on.

My cousin does have that underground shelter there in Lone Grove and they (mainly she) have become rather weather savvy---she knows the Sirens.....it is less than 100 yards from her house.....you can see if from their front yard.

Tom N' Ft. Worth


The mayor of Lone Grove also confirmed the sirens did sound.

[Michael Ratliff]

the 1st marker is where we were then headed north into town 7 min before it hit. If they did sound the sirens it was brief and my video shows there is still power on the south edge of town. Everybody is right tornado sirens don't save lives.. people save lives.., but they sure do help. Ray walker is agreeance with me on not hearing them. Anyways i posted this map for the people who wanted to know where we were. If they did sound them job well done!











http://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss9/seeatornado/TORNADO.jpg

[rdale]

Sirens aren't made to be continuously sounded... They'll burn up. Most sound for 2-3 minutes when a warning is issued, and proactive communities sound them again when a tornado is a few minutes out. NEVER sound them for an all-clear, it does nothing but confuse people.

[Michael Ratliff]

Sirens aren't made to be continuously sounded... They'll burn up. Most sound for 2-3 minutes when a warning is issued, and proactive communities sound them again when a tornado is a few minutes out. NEVER sound them for an all-clear, it does nothing but confuse people.

Ok thanks. I should of been able to hear the sirens from every location....guess i missed them. Like I said before. Job well done on sounding the sirens. End of disc. for me. Yall have at it ..........:rolleyes:

[Brandon Goforth]

FWIW, they did have 30-40 minutes of warning! The first tornado warning for Carter County issued by the OUN NWSFO for that storm came out at 6:50 pm. At 7:15 pm, a new tornado warning was issued that specifically mentioned Lone Grove:

* AT 715 PM CST...NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE DOPPLER RADAR INDICATED A SEVERE THUNDERSTORM CAPABLE OF PRODUCING A TORNADO 7 MILES SOUTH OF WILSON...MOVING NORTHEAST AT 40 MPH.
* LOCATIONS IN THE WARNING INCLUDE ARDMORE...LONE GROVE...NORTHERN LAKE MURRAY...OVERBROOK AND WILSON.

I think the tornado came into Lone Grove near 7:28 pm, and a 7:31 pm Severe Weather Statement noted "AT 731 PM CST...DOPPLER RADAR AND STORM SPOTTERS OBSERVED A TORNADO NEAR LONE GROVE...MOVING NORTHEAST AT 35 MPH."

Now, it is a problem if the outdoor warning sirens did not go off. However, the residents did have warning if they had means to receive the warning. The OUN NWSFO did a good job with the warnings it seems, and Lone Grove was in the polygon for at least 10-13 minutes before the tornado hit (I don't think the town was in the first warning polygon issued at 6:50, but I'm not sure). Those who had weather radios or were tuned in to local media (TV, battery-operated radio, etc), or those that generally had a means by which to receive such a warning without a dependence on outdoor warning sirens, should have received ample warning. Nobody should *rely* on outdoor sirens to warn them, particularly since many are on AC power only (AFAIK - not as many have battery backup), which means that you are toast if power is cut to the siren and you rely solely on that siren to warn you of impending hazardous weather.

EDIT: I don't mean this to sound cold or not compassionate! I really am pained to hear that 7+ people died, and many more were injured. The sirens certainly SHOULD have sounded if they didn't, and the county emergency management officials should have been plenty prepared given the SPC outlook and tornado watch. However, it IS important to take your own safety into your own hands by making sure that you have a reliable and alternate/secondary means by which to receive a severe weather warning.

Well, I said that it was tornado warned from the moment it was crossing the river. I agree that everyone in tornado alley needs to be responsible enough to have more than one source for warning (sirens only), but who knows, that trailer park is low income and maybe some of those people didn't have televisions, I'm not going to try to guess at all of those scenarios in which those people say they had no warning...I do know that the last F4 tornado to pass through the county was given a 30 minute warning. The system was put in place to warn people asap and it uses our tax dollars...people have a right to know why the sirens did not sound sooner, and they also have a right to hold someone accountable for it IMO. And for what it's worth, I have some friends in the west Lone Grove area (tornado missed them) who said they didn't hear sirens until literally just a minute or two before the tornado came rolling through town...that's pretty unacceptable if true considering the NWS had a tornado warning on it for such a large amount of time leading up to the event, so what was the county emergency management waiting on?? I wasn't there, so it's all hearsay of course, but I'm just sayin...

[Matt Hughes]

I think that rdale has a good point. Sometimes the advanced warning can shoot you in the foot. This cyclical supercell had been producing long track tornadoes for over an hour by then. It's definitely fair to assume that they sounded too soon and well before Ratliff rolled into town. And it's not like most people adhere to the sirens anyhow. We've all been through towns with sirens blaring and that's the only noticable difference. The ONLY time I've seen 100% compliance to warnings and sirens was last spring in Greensburg for obvious reasons. Am I the only one who is sick and tired of hearing an seeing about fatalities from trailer parks??? I totally respect the fact that a great number of people have limited means but at some point can't they just be abolished!?! Even one human life is way too valuable to produce these death traps.

Edit: If emergency management did not sound the sirens until the tornado was on top of them like Brandon said then it should cost some people their jobs!

[Jim Saueressig]

I heard from the beginning that the sirens did indeed sound for some time but if you are in a well insulated house a distance from the siren or the general area of the siren is heavy with trees or the wind is blowing the sound away from you it does diminish the sound. We have new T-128's in our county and town and I can tell you I don't hear these very often compared to the T-Bolts they replaced though they have a slightly higher DB rating.

Sirens aren't made to be continuously sounded... They'll burn up. Most sound for 2-3 minutes when a warning is issued, and proactive communities sound them again when a tornado is a few minutes out. NEVER sound them for an all-clear, it does nothing but confuse people.

I have not since I was a child heard our sirens nor any others I have been near during a tornado shut off and not resounded until it was all clear.

EDIT: I should add that power loss usually takes them out if anything...

[Tim Newman]

Our sirens are controlled using the phone lines to turn them on. If we don't hang up the phone, it continues to sound. We had a storm last year that was warned. Our police chief made the decision to leave the sirens running through the entire event. He burned up several of our sirens and the cost to replace motors was over $100,000. We discussed this afterward and he said he would do the same thing in the same circumstances. I "what iffed" him with, "What if, after burning up 15 of 60 sirens, we have another storm come through that needs to be warned? What happens to the 25% of the population who are no longer within earshot?" He now realizes that it is not worth it to kill a quarter of the sirens each time we have a storm.

We do not sound an all-clear. We tell people, if they hear a second siren, they should take cover again.

[Chris Vagasky]

As far as people taking the repsonsibility for personal safety upon themselves, I agree with Jeff whole-heartedly. I grew up in this area and all three major OKC stations are picked up down there, plus four more local stations from Ardmore/Ada/Wichita Falls. I called a friend of mine in Healdton (about 15 miles west of Lone Grove) when the storm was just crossing the Jefferson/Carter county line, and he said they were watching the weather on television and were well-aware of what was going on...so at least one station was doing coverage. On the other hand, my family (who have always been complacent about severe weather despite my being a chaser) had no clue what was happening when I first called them. Once I got them to turn on the television, they were giving me updates when I'd call to check their status, from information they were hearing on television. My aunt was even able to tell me how wide the tornado was based on spotter reports, the last time I called before telling them to take cover. So it's not like there wasn't plenty of warning barring the sirens...if they didn't sound.


I was at one of the Oklahoma City stations on Tuesday night assisting with the coverage. When the storm was still in Clay (Montague?) County, I pointed out that storm and said that it was going to be the next player for our coverage area.

We came back on the air once the storm crossed into Jefferson County, and mentioned that it was dark and velocities were strong and to assume the worst case scenario -- that a tornado was on the ground and to take shelter and leave mobile homes.

We were on the air again as it was approaching Lone Grove, and came right back on after the warning mentioned a large, violent tornado.

We put out the warnings, and it is up to the viewers to react.

[Danny Neal]

First off, It is very unfortunate that eight lives were lost to this devastating tornado. When I heard there were people missing I thought their may have been dozens of fatalities but I guess about everybody had been accounted for. It could have been worse but still it is sad anybody died from this monster tornado. Another thing, has their ever a tornado of this magnitude during the month of February. This tornado may have caught many people off guard because I hav not heard of many violent tornadoes in the plains during this time of the year.

2/28/07 - The first "official" EF-4 tornado hit SE KS. I know Darin B had a (not-so) nice up-close encounter with that.

[shane turner]

2/28/07 - The first "official" EF-4 tornado hit SE KS. I know Darin B had a (not-so) nice up-close encounter with that.

Yeah, what I meant to say was I believe that is the only violent tornado recorded in Oklahoma during the month of February. I only live about 30 miles from the tornado you are referring to that hit Blue Mound, Kansas.

[Danny Neal]

Was the whole UPS story confirmed? *Stranded outside in the parking lot at time tornado hit, story*

I moved my question here because I didn't want to take away the significance of the basement thread, and it would probably fit in better here..

[T. W. Miller]

Related to what someone stated earlier about other factors (distance from, wind/rain/hail noise, et al) in regards to hearing the siren(s), other factors to consider would be people watching their tv (non-local) or listening to their music at a high enough volume level such as to drown out any external sounds.

Bottome line, even with sirens sounding and adequate local broadcast coverage was available for ample warning, one can only speculate what any person was doing during that time that may have prevented or inhibited their knowledge of the situation.

[Jim Saueressig]

Lone Grove Tornado 911 Calls, Dash Cam Video Released (http://www.koco.com/news/18705203/detail.html)

Authorities have released recordings of 911 calls that followed Tuesday's powerful tornado in Lone Grove.

"I'm west of Lone Grove," one caller said, reporting the tornado. "It's huge. All of the electricity has just gone out in Lone Grove. All of it. There is no lights. I watched it travel for about two miles. It was huge. It was on the ground."

"I am in Lone Grove. I am a storm spotter and I'm out of touch with the group," said another caller. "Can you please relay that there are massive power flashes in Lone Grove. We've got a tornado on the ground in Carter County."

[Bryce Stone]

From what I can determine, there is a two-word answer to why this tornado took so many lives: trailer park. Seven of the nine fatalities occurred in a trailer park.

One man interviewed by KOCO said that there was a community storm shelter in this trailer park. If there was a shelter (still unknown) and the warnings were there (they were) and the media coverage was there (it was) and the sirens sounded (they did) then it seems that the emergency management community's response was adequate to prevent (theoretically at least) any loss of life.

Sometimes I guess it all comes down to people heeding the warnings and staying alert about the weather situation.

[Brian Stertz]

Was there ever a final path length determined by aerial survey on the Lone Grove EF4?I just have not seen the official record on this yet...unless I have somehow missed that info statement from OUN.

[Kiel Ortega]

Was there ever a final path length determined by aerial survey on the Lone Grove EF4?I just have not seen the official record on this yet...unless I have somehow missed that info statement from OUN.
The aerial surveys (several were done) had difficulties on the extreme ends of the damage path, especially the beginning of the path, due to spotty damage (mostly just trees...power poles if they were present). There isn't an official length yet, but I surveyed the path from the Red River to just NE of the Majestic Hills neighborhood in Ardmore for a VERY UNOFFICIAL path length of 35 mi. The damage in TX south of Spanish Fort really wasn't much (if any) and I have yet to see any photo evidence of the tornado on the ground there (not saying it wasn't on the ground, just haven't seen anything). So if anything in TX is added, it'll bump the length up by 3 or 4 miles. If you go to the OUN webpage for the 10 Feb tornadoes (http://www.srh.noaa.gov/oun/wxevents/20090210/) and click the "GIS Data" link, you can get the preliminary path in a Google Earth kmz that I put together, including ones from OKC/Edmond and points north.

[Brian Stertz]

Great thanks for the info Kiel....yeah was wondering if there was any Montague Co. TX segment on that thing. Looked like things on radar really exploded updraft and couplet wise in W. Love Co. Think thats when things went from just a run of the mill tornadic supercell to the more strong/violent class. That KXII radar snapshot over Lone Grove was very impressive. Can only imagine how incredible the structure would have been if that was a pre-sunset scenario to have more solid visuals.

[Kris Hair]

I followed this storm from before it was warned north of Bowie. We had just left the outflow dominant storms in Wichita Falls when we saw it form.

One thing that I can't help but keep thinking about, and maybe it was just a malfunction of my equipment was that I had no Weather Radio information out there. The airways were dead. From well south of Nocona, through Nocona, and all the way to Spanish Fort, Tx. (I ran out of road there), I never had Weather Radio information. The only way we knew it was warned was by my GRLevel 3 software (and we could see it rotating violently)

Even when we got to the Texas/Ok border, still no Weather radio. And we could see the tornado on the ground through the flashes of lightning.

Maybe it was my equipment, but it was definately something I think about a lot. Not to mention I was back through Nocona the other day, and I picked it up perfectly. I even have an external antenna for it.

[Jason Young]

Welcome Kris !!!!

I was able to get the NWS Ardmore radio but it was weak on the west side , but I wasn't able to get the Nocona Tx. tower. Anyone know why NWS norman put out a thunderstorm warning on this as it passed in to Ok. All I can think is that S/C Ok. is in the blind spot of Ok radar's.

[Tony Cook]

One thing that I can't help but keep thinking about, and maybe it was just a malfunction of my equipment was that I had no Weather Radio information out there. The airways were dead. From well south of Nocona, through Nocona, and all the way to Spanish Fort, Tx. (I ran out of road there), I never had Weather Radio information. The only way we knew it was warned was by my GRLevel 3 software (and we could see it rotating violently)

Even when we got to the Texas/Ok border, still no Weather radio. And we could see the tornado on the ground through the flashes of lightning.


Had the same experience coming south on 81 across the Red River just north of Ringgold. Scanner with external antenna, and no wx. radio that entire stretch. My data feed failed also during this time. I knew the storm was rotating from the last scan we picked up before the loss of data. I wanted to get south and cut east on 82 at Ringgold, since from our angle, the core was blocking the business end of the storm. Figured it was too close a call to try it, though, so we bailed back north. At the time, I thought either it was my equipment, or we were in an area of no coverage. We started getting the NWS signal again somewhere further north, between Terrel and Ryan, although I don't remember exactly where.

In retrospect, I *think* we would have beaten the circulation and gotten a nice view of the storm as it crossed the river. Not a big fan of punching a core to get to a potentially tornadic circulation, though, especially without data or radio. The safe play did eventually result in a distant view of the power flashes as the storm hit Lone Grove.

Maybe it was my equipment, but it was definately something I think about a lot. Not to mention I was back through Nocona the other day, and I picked it up perfectly. I even have an external antenna for it.

Definitely sounds like something happened to the signal up there that evening. Glad you mentioned this, as I have not really thought about that aspect of it since the chase. Just assumed it was the usual equipment snafu in the heat of battle.

[Kris Hair]

It just made me wonder how many people didn't get the warning until it was too late?

[Tony Cook]

It just made me wonder how many people didn't get the warning until it was too late?

FWIW, we got NWS radio continuously from Grady north to Ringling and on into Lone Grove as the event unfolded.

[David Reimer]

I also had reception issues with the NWS Radio in the Nacona to Bowie area. Not until I got east to Gainesville on I-35 did I pick it up. Also had some cell issues in that area as well.