Cameras for storm-chasing

[dmckemy]

I currently use a Olympus Stylus 710 Digital Camera whenever I'm storm-chasing (obviously, not a great storm-chasing camera)...got it as a graduation gift out of high school. It works pretty well in daylight and bright conditions, but whenever I'm chasing storms and it's dark, the pictures come out somewhat blurry and a lot of details are lost. I'm ready to upgrade.

I'm looking into buying a good camera for storm chasing purposes. I'm a little new to advanced camera stuff, so any sort of advice/suggestions would be appreciated. I'm a little lost in trying to understand lens sizes (like a 50-200mm) and how they work, and the lighting (like f/2.0-3.0), and while I did read some articles about that stuff, I'm still a little confused.

I was currently looking at a camera on best buy (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9999108900050006&st=Canon+Lens&lp=2&type=product&cp=1&id=pcmprd108900050006v), and from my basic knowledge, it seems like a pretty good camera to use when storm chasing. I would like to find one cheaper than that, but I have a feeling that a good one may not be much cheaper.

Any helps is appreciated!

[Skip Talbot]

Many of the chasers on here are using a DSLR such as one from the Rebel series. If you aren't ready to make the jump to understanding how to pick and work with lenses, I would recommend looking at an advanced point and shoot camera. They won't have interchangeable lenses, but some of them do accept a wide angle or telephoto attachments. You'll also get much greater control over your images such as manually selecting your shutter times, which is great for shooting lightning. I'm using a discontinued Sony advanced point and shoot model and find that it fits me well.

[Greg Campbell]

I suspect you're running into simple camera shake. Have you tried the camera's stable mode? (shaking hand symbol on the mode wheel.) This supposedly boosts the ISO as needed. This may produce a bit more image noise, but will minimize outright blurring. A cheap tripod or bean bag will also fix the problem.

[CZandbergen]

Photography is one of my main hobbies and it is really about three things. Lens + Body + knowledge. Pick a lens system and then buy the body you want to match with it. I like the Canon lens' so I have Canon bodies too. Any Canon D series DSLR is a great choice. Match that with a 18-200 lens and you are in business. The D40s are pretty cheap now so they are a good buy. But I still shoot with my 10D and it is a great camera after 6 years of use and probably 50,000 images.

Then buy a couple of books and start experimenting. It will take some time but you will get there eventually.

[John Wetter]

I'd also suggest to buy from one of the reputable dealers listed at the top of the equipment forum. Except for a few sales, Best Buy usually runs fairly high on price.

I personally would move to a DSLR if you're wanting to get more serious, but a top-end point and shoot is never a bad thing.

[dmckemy]

Greg: I have actually used the camera's stable mode and other modes to experiment around, but the quality of the picture is so-so. I do have a tripod for it, though I don't use it too often as it takes a lot of time to set up and take down, and I'm usually pushed for time when I'm chasing, so I just don't bother with it. The tripod does help out a little bit with the clarity of the image, but it's still not great when shooting severe weather.

Just curious, but what makes the DSLR series stand out from the rest of the series? Is it more oriented for outdoor conditions? What kind of DSLR cameras would be good for a beginner like me? (something not too complicated, but takes great pictures) Any links to specific cameras would be great!

Also, just for clarity, what would be the difference between a 18-55mm lens and a 100-200mm lens? Would you just have a larger frame of view with the camera with the 100-200mm lens?

[Mike Hollingshead]

mm/focal length... http://www.usa.canon.com/app/html/EFLenses101/focal_length.html


I'd say get a Nikon or Canon starter DSLR(DSLR meaning basically you can change the lenses on the thing). I've personally not understood the need to go with a D series(more expensive than rebel) as far as shooting storms. Sure built a bit better, more customizable, and fast/bigger buffer for shooting consecutive shots. Maybe one day I'll be convinced to spend the extra bucks. Heck for a while there they were using identical sensors in the rebels as they had with the D series ones. Full frame though I can see the reason to upgrade to. If you plan to mostly shoot storms, eh, a Drebel will more than do.

And for the most part, soft images at night is not the fault of the camera. I really wouldn't get too concerned with something being too complicated. The basics of photography really isn't the least complicated. Do yourself a favor and when you get the thing, never use the auto modes on the wheel, stick with M/Av/Tv(manual/aperture/shutter).

I put this on my site a while ago just for the basics of a camera. I should probably do it again as I think it can be explained a lot better and simpler. http://www.extremeinstability.com/misc07-1-26.htm

I have a 17-40mm lens and a 10-22mm. Now that I have the 10-22 the 17-40 is rarely on while chasing. 17-40 on a crop camera was usually just not quite wide enough(most DSLRs are crop/1.6x....10mm on crop same as 16mm on full frame).

Here's a nice lens you can shoot structure with from a state away....HERE (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/find/newsLetter/Mother-of-All-L-Lenses.jsp).

[David Dildine]

On lens dimensions... for storm chasing and other landscapes, there's really no need for any lens over 100mm in length. The wider the better - just watch out for an unintended fish eye effect < 24mm with cheaper lenses.

[Dave Marshall]

DSLR cameras have many advantages that go *way* beyond the ability to change lenses.

A DSLR is simply a digital equivalent of a Single Lens Reflex camera like old film cameras. The big feature that 'defines' an SLR is the viewfinder actually looks out directly through the photo lens, not through a separate window or an LCD. DSLRs afford a great deal of control over aperture size, shutter speed, and exposure sensitivity. They usually have a 'bulb mode' which allows you to hold the shutter open indefinitely, which is great for lightning and astronomical photography, and all that I've seen have a burst mode and bracketing, both of which are great ways of making sure you don't mess up and miss a critical shot.

I have a Sony Cybershot DSC-H1, which was my first decent camera. Its a point and shoot technically, not a DSLR. Its newer versions have a lot of advantages for a newbie. They're relatively inexpensive, and come with a very flexible lens capable of going up to 20x magnification. It can also shoot decent (VHS quality, usable, but not great) video, which is handy.

The two big disadvantages to these types of cameras for chasing are the lack of bulb mode, and the very long processing time required after the image is actually taken. Newer ones are better, but my DSC-H1 needs about 1 second of processing time for every second of exposure time. This is a real pain in the butt for lightning photography.

Interestingly, a lot of these 'advanced point and shoot' cameras, especially the older ones actually have lower noise figures in low light than newer SLRs. They're so slow, you just need two of them :P

[Mike Hollingshead]

The two big disadvantages to these types of cameras for chasing are the lack of bulb mode, and the very long processing time required after the image is actually taken. Newer ones are better, but my DSC-H1 needs about 1 second of processing time for every second of exposure time. This is a real pain in the butt for lightning photography.

Interestingly, a lot of these 'advanced point and shoot' cameras, especially the older ones actually have lower noise figures in low light than newer SLRs. They're so slow, you just need two of them :P

Sounds like a noise reduction feature causing such slow time between shots.

[James Langford]

Yeah, that is the way my old Sony F707 worked, and it was one of the major drivers behind me getting a DSLR. :) I hated missing the best lightning bolts while the camera was "Processing". I think with most of the prosumer cameras, you can't really turn off the noise reduction features either.

James

[Mike Hollingshead]

Yeah, that is the way my old Sony F707 worked, and it was one of the major drivers behind me getting a DSLR. :) I hated missing the best lightning bolts while the camera was "Processing". I think with most of the prosumer cameras, you can't really turn off the noise reduction features either.

James

Well I had/have the F707 as well and while yes it was slow, it wasn't this 1 second for 1 second per shot thing. Course it wasn't a very cheap camera and so had the option in there to turn that off or on. I can't help but figure Dave's DSC-H1 has the option to turn that off and speed it up.

But yeah, even with that off on the F707(a 2002 or so camera) it was still too slow for lightning(sort of..that second or so was indeed highly annoying on bolts). The DSC-H1 looks like a 2005 model. Surely they gave the option to turn the 1 second for 1 second noise reduction off somehwere? Course that is likely how they get the "less noise" than the same pixel count DSLRs too. Then again I guess that feature was for hot pixels more than grain noise.

[dmckemy]

Mike: Thanks for all the information/links! It's really cleared some stuff up for me. One last question....I was looking at the Canon Rebel XS 10.1 MP DLSR camera, and I noticed a similar version (the XSi) ran about $200 more. The differences between them seem small, but is the XSi really worth $200 more if you're using it for just storm chasing?

Here's a link to the XS: http://www.amazon.com/Canon-10-1MP-Digital-18-55mm-3-5-5-6/dp/B001CBKJGG/ref=pd_bbs_4?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1240004507&sr=8-4

[Patrick Boomer]

If you are getting ready to make a purchase you might want to wait a few weeks.
There should be some good sales on the XS/XSi before the T1i comes out May 7.

[Cris Schroeder]

If you are looking at the Canon Rebel series, it would be worth your while to go to their website (http:\\www.usa.canon.com (http://www.usa.canon.com)) and compare features between the different models. Canon has introduced several different variants over the last year or so, so it isn't always clear what the differences are.

There many differences between a DSLR and a point & shoot. The option to change lenses has already been discussed, but another big difference is sensor size. Bigger sensors generally mean lower noise, and DSLR's have huge sensors compared to P&S cameras. The sensor in my 12 megapixel G9 P&S is 7.6 mm x 5.7 mm. The 10 megapixel sensor in my Rebel XTi is 22.2 mm x 14.8 mm. This means the DSLR pixels are huge compared to the P&S, so they gather more light and don't need as much noise-causing amplification. Low light performance is a big plus for storm chasing.

Another advantage is RAW mode. DSLR's can send the preprocessed image data to the memory card instead of, or in addition to, the JPEG image. The RAW image is a 12- or 14-bit image instead of 8 bits in the JPEG, which gives you much more room to play with exposure changes or other tweaks later. It is amazing how much information you can recover from a RAW file that showed up as a dark blob in the JPEG.

You also had a question about the differences between, say, an 18-55 mm lens and a 100-200 mm lens. The length is the focal length, and is basically the magnification of the lens. For normal 35mm (film), a 50mm lens gives about the same angle of coverage as the human eye. Anything smaller than 50mm is considered wide angle. The range of approx. 16-24mm is considered "superwide". On the other end, focal lengths greater than 50mm magnify the image. 100mm is a moderate telephoto, and 200+ will really reach out and touch stuff. For chasing, as mentioned before, wide angles and ultrawides are the way to go.

The caveat to the focal length discussion is that the standard focal lengths are based on 35mm film. If the camera sensor is smaller than 35mm film, the lenses look magnified by comparison. The Canon Rebel series uses APS-C sized sensors which are about 60% the size of 35mm film. So, you have to multiply the lens focal length by 1.6 to find the "effective" focal length. The standard 50mm lens looks like an 80mm on the Rebel series. That is why the 10-22mm ultrawide is so popular...it is effectively 16-35mm in length.

This is WAY longer than I intended it to be. If you have any interest in photography at all, I strongly recommend going with a DSLR. You can take extremely high quality pictures with any of the entry level systems and you won't regret it a bit.

[Mike Hollingshead]

Mike: Thanks for all the information/links! It's really cleared some stuff up for me. One last question....I was looking at the Canon Rebel XS 10.1 MP DLSR camera, and I noticed a similar version (the XSi) ran about $200 more. The differences between them seem small, but is the XSi really worth $200 more if you're using it for just storm chasing?

Here's a link to the XS: http://www.amazon.com/Canon-10-1MP-Digital-18-55mm-3-5-5-6/dp/B001CBKJGG/ref=pd_bbs_4?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1240004507&sr=8-4

A brief glance at specs show these differences...

3 inch LCD on the XSi 2.5 inch on the XS
12 mp XSI 10 mp XS
9 point AF XSi 7 point XS
3.5 frames per second XSi 3.0 XS

Doubt any of those are going to be terribly important but maybe worth extra $150(at least on Canon's prices).

I'd definitely recommend getting something with that live view as it can be really useful at times, like extremely precise manual focusing since you can zoom in 10x on the 3 inch LCD(so like focusing on a 30 inch wide image). Just useful at night or lower light...or other things like an annoyingly tight manual focus on a big telephoto.

[Darren Addy]

... if you're using it for just storm chasing?

Seriously? :eek: You probably won't figure out how to use it effectively if you only take it out at chase time.

[Mike Hollingshead]

Seriously? :eek: You probably won't figure out how to use it effectively if you only take it out at chase time.

I don't think he said or is saying he won't practice at other times with the thing. Read more like he wondered if the differences mattered for chasing. Photography, especially digital now, isn't really rocket science anyway.

[Ryan McGinnis]

I don't think he said or is saying he won't practice at other times with the thing. Read more like he wondered if the differences mattered for chasing. Photography, especially digital now, isn't really rocket science anyway.

Well, to be fair, I think that comes from the fact that you're just a natural at it. :) For a great many people, digital photography -- or at least getting to the level of quality that you've attained in your photography, really is rocket science.

[dmckemy]

Oh, I would definitly use the camera for other things as well, but the main purpose of getting a new camera would be mainly for storm chasing. Sorry for any confusion:)

Patrick: I would probably purchase the camera sometime after school ends this semester (early May), so I will definitly keep my eyes out for good deals. I'm really wanting to save money if I can help it, so I don't mind waiting a little bit.

[Greg Campbell]

One more thought: You can often find factory recertified cameras at substantial savings. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16830113162 is a great deal. You get a 30 day return to Newegg, as well as a standard factory warranty. A friend bought this very item a few weeks back and is more than pleased.

IMO, a cheap body like this is the way to go. Most of the consumer-level cameras are built fairly lightly and must be considered semi-disposable. Add the constant feature churn (and attendant hype), and you'll be itching to 'upgrade' in a few years anyway. Spend your $ on solidly built lenses, preferably those that will cover your inevitable full-frame sensor.

[Zack Hargrove]

Do the CANNON DSLRs have any waterproof casing that you can purchase?

[Darren Addy]

http://stores.channeladvisor.com/47stphoto/items/item.aspx?itemid=6234609 Google is your friend.

[Zack Hargrove]

Did not think it was a big deal to ask people that use the actual cameras when I was in a hurry and running out the door with no time to google... my bad