This up close stuff is getting out of hand

[mcrowther]

After seeing all of the close calls yesterday in MO, and not just from yahoos like that local Camaro jockey, I am fed up with "let's get as close as humanly possible to the rain-wrapped tornado" or "let's chase this cell until 2AM so we might get a glimpse of a tornado for 1 second in the lightning" or let's core punch this storm with 80 VIL and have our vehicle totaled" etc etc etc.
What ever happened to prudence in storm chasing? It is NOT a competition, or at least is should not be one. But the combination of readily available internet connections in the vehicle and the ability to show the world your "catch" on YouTube or CNN or TWC is fueling this mania that IS going to get someone killed. So I say- step back, take a deep breath, and re-examine why you are out there chasing in the first place. Is it worth risking your life and possibly others?- no. But that is what a lot of us are doing and we need to stop it. I for one will usually be back 5-10 miles from the storm, getting my structure shots and parhaps missing the tornado. Does that mean I will never get up close to a tornado? No, I will attempt that in certain circumstances where I am reasonably sure that I can do so safely. If the storm is even vaguely HP, forget it.
A caveat to this rant- I am not really directing this at any particular individuals, and I do realize that in some cases a road closure or other circumstances may result in unintentionally getting closer than intended. However, the radical upturn in close calls the last few years is no accident, there is no doubt in my mind that some are taking unecessary chances and this will have bad consequences, mark my words.

Flame me if you wish, but I am firm in this opinion.

Matt Crowther

[Aaron Kennedy]

The number of close calls in the last few years appears to be due to a combination of things.

Radar making people "invincible", the simply larger numbers of chasers out there, plus the rise of streaming/easy to shoot video are all factors that need to be considered. If close calls do happen, they are more likely to be on camera (along with the annoying commentary).

To each their own (I call it natural selection), but you won't get any sympathy from me if it hits the fan. On the other hand, the Camaro dude is just out of control and would like to see the law thrown at him for reckless endangerment.

I guess a large HP storm in a hilly/forested area with limited roads screams out STAY AWAY, but that's just me.

[Jacob Ferden]

I highly doubt the guy with the Camaro was a "chaser," at least in the way we look at it. No, that basically amounted to: "Oh, look, let's drive into the tornadee and get it on tape so I can look like a big shot in front of my drinking buddies and get it on CNN while I'm at it."

But I agree, he needs to have law enforcement on his rear end, and severely.

[Chad Ringley]

To each their own (I call it natural selection), but you won't get any sympathy from me if it hits the fan. On the other hand, the Camaro dude is just out of control and would like to see the law thrown at him for reckless endangerment.

I guess a large HP storm in a hilly/forested area with limited roads screams out STAY AWAY, but that's just me.

With ya man. I know it's been said for years that there is going to be some "tragic event" that really shakes up the storm chasing community, and statistics will unfortunatley bare out and its going to be sooner rather than later IMHO.

The Camaro dude really stepped over the line by actually PROMOTING his insanity in addition to trying to justify it.

[Jay McCoy]

I am not going to flame you Matt. I in some ways agree people are getting too close for safety concerns....BUT...........

People chase for different reasons and goals. You yourself said you like to be 5-10 miles away so you can shoot structure. Some people love that apsect while others love the hail or the tornado itself. For that reason we have NO right to tell others how to chase. At times I like more distant shots and at times I like being about 1 mile away (rarely do I get closer to that but it happens). Its like the way people photograph storms. Just because we dont agree with their style doesnt give us the right to tell them how to shoot. If they get too close and pay the price thats their problem. And yes I agree it will happen and it will end up effecting chasing in general but we still cant tell them what to do. Plus the fact is video like that sells. Thats what the public wants unfortunately. They dont care about seeing video from 5 miles away iof they can see it from 500 yards and some are out there to make money and get their name on tv. Thats the life of the beast. Public demand is what drives it. Plus the adrenaline rush obviously. I prefer to stay alive.

We have too many people worrying about what others are doing instead of just taking care of themselves. Just worry about your safety and let the others take care of their own. The only time I worry is when they interfere with my chasing or my safety such as blocking a road or getting in front of my camera. Otherwise let things happen as they will and enjoy the storm for yourself. I will add if somebody does get hurt or killed because they got too close I will have ZERO sympathy for them and will laugh over their grave. Maybe thats cold but you risk it you ask for it.

Now for non chasers like the idiot in the camero. You have to almost root for his demise.

[Rob Herman]

Problem is I don't think the "law" is going to see the "Camaro jockey" as being any different then the rest of us.

[mcrowther]

Problem is I don't think the "law" is going to see the "Camaro jockey" as being any different then the rest of us.
And if someone is killed, the bad publicity will affect all of chasing.

[Rich Thompson]

Matt,

It's not gonna stop - a tornado killing a chaser might just make it worse because of the publicity! Who on ST doesn't recall some first hand experience with the horrors of a vehicle rollover or collision involving family or friends? Who doesn't know that a tornado can kill you in your car? We all know that driving is dangerous if you don't account for weather conditions and the actions of other drivers. We all know that a direct hit from a strong-violent tornado can kill you in your vehicle. Most people know these things, but too many don't seem to factor in this knowledge when they make decisions while chasing.

Let's face it, many chasers have figured out that tornadoes aren't that dangerous most of the time. As long as you don't drive into the core flow of an intense tornado, you'll probably walk away with "exciting" video to impress the masses.

[Jacob Ferden]

And if someone is killed, the bad publicity will affect all of chasing.

Be careful, I got flamed for bringing that up a couple days ago. :eek:

[Rob Wadsworth]

Better photographs by getting closer? Maybe...
Or is it just in the nature of storm chasing to get close and be safe? Absolutely...
Or is it just unavoidable in being too cautious knowing the potential for present danger?

Things can rapidly change in any chase. Did we pick the best side of the storm to approach - as to avoid large hail? Not always. But did we have to re-adjust out position and had to take an awkward and dangerous course to correct our position relative to the storm? I'm sure that has happened more than twice. Do we get too close? Well, define 'too close' please. Do we always have great road options? Absolutely not...

Storm chasing and spotting is inherently dangerous. Take the sharp edge away from your razor - and you end up with a beard. Stay too far away from a storm - and then you won't be able to keep up with it. Indeed, the one single item that puts us all in a 'dangerous' place is often because we need to take advantage of road options and conditions. If you think storm chasing is too dangerous - then you are right. So don't do it. I'm pretty certain any one of us who go out has considered the fact that they are doing all that they can to stay safe and that it is inherently dangerous to pursue a dangerous storm. It is done out of necessity as well as out of the need to learn from it.

Just two cents...

[Brandon Goforth]

I agree. The getting close doesn't bother me much because if you want to risk your life, that's up to you, just don't ask me to feel sorry for you when things take a turn for the worst...what bothers me is the reckless driving on crowded roadways, the road blocking, and the behavior that puts OTHER people at risk. If you want to get close or drive into a tornado, I don't really care...but if you come flying around me on a beat up, wet country road doing 100 mph, you may as well be pointing a loaded gun at my head, and I'm going to take it as such. THAT is the kind of stuff that needs to stop...but it won't, because for some reason people stop caring whenever a severe storm is nearby. So, yeah, I agree, with increasing chaser convergence and more people taking bigger chances, it's only a matter of time before these people start killing themselves and others while out there.

[Rob Herman]

I don't care what other chasers do, but how many times have we seen things get screwed up for everyone else because of a few bad apples? Can't control what other people do, just hope nothing really bad happens.

[Jacob Ferden]

Those questioning the impact and visibility of reckless storm chasing may want to log on to CNN.com and look on the front page under "latest news." I believe the fifth one down.

http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-258037

:mad:

[Mike Hollingshead]

If someone isn't harming anyone else, it's really foreign to me to get wound up over what toots their horn. That's what I never get, why some getting close bothers some so much. Similar to the law requiring people to wear seatbelts. Silly imo. And the whole death of a chaser worry is equally as silly. It's always attached to how it will make it worse on chasing and regulating, yada yada yada. But what's far more an issue to the general public is not going to be joe chaser flying to oz, it's just the numbers and other enforceable laws.

What is equally annoying are all the, they did it to get on tv, just because they might have got on tv. Like all the sudden the adrenaline junkie in many of us has vanished as the "troubling excuse".

[Nathan Truninger]

To me its as simple as once people get $$$$ and fame on their mind, the part of the brain that keeps reckless/stupid behavior to a minimum gets squashed by the overrunning drive of greed and adrenaline.

While I'm not knocking the people who built the TIV and operate it, and while I'm not knocking Reed and his gang, there's no doubt people are thinking after watching the Discovery show that they can get close. As was said above, its going to get a "wannabe" killed.

[Brandon Goforth]

Those questioning the impact and visibility of reckless storm chasing may want to log on to CNN.com and look on the front page under "latest news." I believe the fifth one down.

http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-258037

:mad:

Just a little bit from over there:

"Michael Ambrosia, who says chasing storms is his hobby, called it a "bad mistake" to pull over on Highway 6 in Novinger, Missouri, as a twister loomed in the distance.

"Oh ... I got close ... OK, that's the closest I've ever been ... It's getting very windy," Ambrosia says on an iReport he sent to CNN.com.

One can hear tires screeching as other cars are trying to tear out of the twister's path. Ambrosia stays put.

"It's about 50 yards from me ... Okay, this tornado ... is ... wow," he says. "It's coming across the road here in front of me. Oh, OK, actually, this is too close. You can feel the winds. Oh, my gosh, I've never been this close before. This one is a fat one, never seen one this wide!""

[Dennis Sherrod]

From what I can find, it looks like all the clips have been taken down except for the short 38 second one of him panicking.

[John Hudson]

Welcome to the Reality TV Era, where garbage is king, and stupidity sells.

Don't believe me? Just look at the prime time lineup on any evening. Last night, on the Learning Channel, of all places, six straight hours of "I Didn't Know I Was Pregnant."

I rest my case.


John
VE4 JTH

[Jason Foster]

Was this a black Camaro, from the last generation....late 90s to early 2000s?

I seem to remember someone somewhere (youtube, skywarnonline) talking about being a chaser, but really had no clue. But I can't find anything...any video links left? Not your everyday chase vehicle.

[Kenny Drake]

I think there is enough chaser video out there for anyone to recognize that 98% of storm chasers view from a safe distance and know exactly what they are doing. Hence, the 2% of the yahoos, or the crazy i-don't-care-about-my-life storm chasers won't really tarnish the reputation of the rest. I'm more afraid of what appears to already be happening: Once someone witnesses someone else successfully punch a tornadic circulation of the weaker variety then they'll try it on a much stronger circulation and end-up not so lucky (thankfully I don't think the latter has happened to any serious degree in the last couple of years).

[Scott Weberpal]

Personally, I'm not satisfied seeing a tornado 2-3 miles away. There is a lot of detail near the ground and around the tornado that you miss from that distance. I enjoy getting close, and I don't do it for anything other than personal gratification - which is why most folks chase. Yesterday when the large tornado passed right in front of me, I likely could have gotten closer and still been here to type about it. I have my limitations (typically about 1/4 mile away), but occasionally there are situations when I feel safe getting even closer. Yesterday, I saw the tornado near Green City before the warning text indicated a confirmed tornado. First and foremost before taking any pictures, I immediately submitted my report via SpotterNetwork. When the 2nd larger tornado developed, again, the report came first which caused me to lose good video time of the tornado transitioning from a truncated cone into the 1/4 mi wide beast.

Getting inside the debris field...that's another story and something you'll never see me doing!

[Verne Carlson]

People die all the time from other extreme sports. I don't see storm chasing as any different. If someone dies in Nascar, skydiving, kayaking, extreme surfing, mountain biking, moto-cross or any other sport they have not been shut down or regulated or cries from the public about when's it all going to end.

Even if it saved one life wouldn't it be worth it to stop the up close tornado intercepts?? NO - not in my opinion.

[Jacob Ferden]

People die all the time from other extreme sports. I don't see storm chasing as any different. If someone dies in Nascar, skydiving, kayaking, extreme surfing, mountain biking, moto-cross or any other sport they have not been shut down or regulated or cries from the public about when's it all going to end.

Even if it saved one life wouldn't it be worth it to stop the up close tornado intercepts?? NO - not in my opinion.

I respectfully disagree. The difference between storm chasing and the other extreme sports you mention is, storm chasing is done by utilizing public roads that are also utilized by regular citizens. What would happen if a storm chaser, in an attempt to get within the outer edges of a tornadic circulation, caused an accident that led to the death of someone attempting to escape the tornado. Furthermore, storm chasing involves observation of phenomena that can damage and destroy both life and property of everyday citizens living in their homes. I fail to see any instance where any of the other extreme sports you mention directly affect the lives of unsuspecting citizens.

[Rich Thompson]

I think what gets the OFs (like myself) a bit frustrated is the fact that so many more of these goobers seem to be gravitating to chasing. Chasing used to be sold as a boring hobby that was mostly occupied by meteorologists. Now, with instant communications and all of this "shock" video, who isn't aware of tornado chasing?

More chasers and more dare devil types will translate into more close encounters. I don't think chasing should be shut down or regulated, but it's a bit sad to watch it devolve into just another extreme sport. The better forecasting and detection gets, the easier it gets to see tornadoes. Soon enough the whole process will be automated and almost *anyone* will be able to target the best threat area with little effort or understanding. If you're willing and able to drive around and can pay for gas, you'll have the opportunity to see tornadoes up close and personal.

[Scott Nelson]

I saw that Camaro dude chase footage and it really peeved me. The first thing I thought of was if my family was injured or killed because this hero was running to get up close and personal with the storm at 115mph+ -- I couldn't go on myself. But the more I thought about it-- the more I realize what I've learned from this forum. You're not going to change people who don't want to be changed. I'm sure he's happy with what he did and the footage he got but notice how ironic it is that he then gets scared because the storm is on top of him. I was scared for the people he was flying by like it was in a video game. One post on another topic said "I was only going 85mph and people were flying by me." But was 85mph really OK? I was watching a live broadcast the other day and the driver ran a stop sign. Why? Because he was trying to get to the storm. I think Camaro dude is simply a more noticeable worst case situation. Should it be on everyones "WHAT NOT TO DO" play list? That's up to you. But it will be on mine. As a reminder_ If we're running towards the storm... just know that 99.99% of the population is running away. :eek:

[Chad Ringley]

I'll risk being all philosophical here, but isn't the bigger issue here the circumstances in which you "get close"?

I personally am all for being close, especially if you experienced and understand and can react to what's going on around you. In the case of the Camaro dude, its a situation where there is perceived inexperience and flaunted negligence on the roadway. I think there should be a clear distinction between chasers who "get close" in a calculated way and those who don't.

[John Farley]

I'm with Matt on this one. As I said in the DISC thread, what bothers me is that videos of "inside the tornado" with dust, rain, and/or debris pounding the car are becoming 1) more and more the standard for what viewers and networks expect to see and 2) the image of chasers presented to the public. This, in turn, creates 2 problems. First, it hurts our image as chasers, which CAN have consequences if law enforcement decides we need to be protected from ourselves. I've seen a few complaints already on ST about "cops that don't like chasers" - expect more of this. Second, it creates new idiots, like the one in that Facebook/Youtube video that got pulled, because they see this kind of chasing and decide to emulate it. Thus, this kind of behavior has a very self-perpetuating aspect to it.

I agree that it is a matter of time until some chaser or wannabe chaser dies. Three people did yesterday in Kirksville, so that tornado was not to be messed with. Multiple chasers had very close calls - and I get the sense from the chase reports that quite a few of these were on an east-west road between an east-moving tornado and a town that blocked their exit options - yet some waited until the tornado was very close before trying to bail. And with a partly rain-wrapped tornado at that. That goes beyond just getting close. I agree there are situations where it is safe to get pretty close - but on a road directly between a partly rain-wrapped tornado and the town it's moving toward? That seems like pushing the limits to me. Yes, I wasn't there and if I am wrong about this I apologize, and feel free to flame me regardless - but I do think that the continuous broadcasting of "in the tornado" video has consequences that go beyond the person who gets the video. (I'm not talking about TIV here, but people that get such video in regular vehicles.)

[Connor McCrorey]

I respectfully disagree. The difference between storm chasing and the other extreme sports you mention is, storm chasing is done by utilizing public roads that are also utilized by regular citizens. What would happen if a storm chaser, in an attempt to get within the outer edges of a tornadic circulation, caused an accident that led to the death of someone attempting to escape the tornado. Furthermore, storm chasing involves observation of phenomena that can damage and destroy both life and property of everyday citizens living in their homes. I fail to see any instance where any of the other extreme sports you mention directly affect the lives of unsuspecting citizens.
I see what you are saying, but to this point I have not seen an example of a chaser endangering citizens around him. Please let me know if I am wrong, but so far all I have seen is chasers getting close without putting others in harm's way.

My view on this is issue is: If someone wants to get close, let them. I agree with Scott, saying that he prefers to be closer to see the tornado's interaction with the ground. In an area like yesterday, that requires being very close. But in West Texas for example, you don't need to be nearly as close to get the same view. I like to see what the tornado is doing on the ground, and that's all I really ask. If that gets me "too close," I'm not going to apologize. Most of the time, it won't. And I will NEVER put any bystanders in harms way just to get "the shot."

[Jacob Ferden]

I see what you are saying, but to this point I have not seen an example of a chaser endangering citizens around him. Please let me know if I am wrong, but so far all I have seen is chasers getting close without putting others in harm's way.


My post mainly was prompted by the Camaro driver doing 115 while passing multiple cars in order to catch up to a tornado. That was by far the most egregious example I have seen, but not the only one. One personal experience of mine involved driving north from Sayre, OK back on the 25th, only to be passed by someone with Texas plates doing at least 90 and weaving in and out of traffic on a U.S. highway...a curvy, hilly U.S. highway at that.

[Brandon Goforth]

I see what you are saying, but to this point I have not seen an example of a chaser endangering citizens around him. Please let me know if I am wrong, but so far all I have seen is chasers getting close without putting others in harm's way.

Reckless driving is putting others in harm's way, and we all know that's going on left and right out there, and I'm not talking about just driving the usual 5 over...I'm talking about driving 115 mph, running stop signs/lights, pulling out in front of people...all of that puts other people on the road at risk.

Getting close, as I said before, I don't care about...drive into a tornado all you want as that is your call...go punch a core dropping grapefruit sized hail, who cares...just don't do crap that endangers other people...other people who are trying to be safe. It's hard to look out for yourself and the other guy when the other guy is doing 115 mph on a wet road and weaving in and out of traffic. Storm chasing is not an "extreme sport", it's really not even an extreme hobby if you know what you're doing and have half a brain...but as he said, we're using the same roads as everyone else...therefore, the choices we make while on those roads affect everyone else around us...it's not even a matter of opinion really, it's common sense, and it's why we have traffic laws in place...it's always fun and games until someone dies.

[cdcollura]

Good day all,

I hear your opinions and getting too close is dangerous whether or not it's intentional.

Last year (2008) I joined the "close-call" club and I still have bad dreams about it from time to time.

Some tornadoes (Quinter in 2008 for example) can have such a strong RFD surge with them you can get hurt or killed within 2 miles of the wedge. Many were lucky as well in Greensburg in 2007, as large wedge tornadoes (Greensburg, Quinter, etc) often have satellite tornadoes going around them that an observer may not even be fixating on.

It would really stink if you are observing a large wedge tornado from 1-2 miles to the SE of it, thinking your safe, and a stove-pipe EF-2+ satellite comes around and takes you out - Keep your head on a swivel!

I STRONGLY suggest avoiding HP storms in poor visibility (remember the "we are IN the tornado" video in June last year 2008 in Iowa?) and especially at night.

Someone getting acidentally killed (God forbid) will give all chasers an unfortunate and bad / careless rap.

[AndyGabrielson]

[QUOTE=Scott Nelson;227244]the more I thought about it-- the more I realize what I've learned from this forum. You're not going to change people who don't want to be changed. QUOTE]

Ya know what I have learned about this forum, and please don't take it personal, but 50% of the conversation is people complaining about what someone else is doing. With all that time spent on that I want to know if others are aware of what they are doing? We all know this camaro guy is a moron, that goes without saying, but to criticize people becuase they want to get REAL footage, AWESOME "i want to see that again!" footage, etc etc... is outrageous. Go ahead, get the same old generic tornado video from 3 miles away, you'll find me getting as close as possible.
I also agree with what Verne said...
I respect everyones opinion, hope you can do the same for me, thanks.

[Vicky Redwood]

Personal safety and that of those around you is paramount and getting close is great as long as you come out ok. Spare just a fraction of a second and think of your parents / loved ones getting a knock at the door from the law enforcers with their hats in their hand and an 'I'm sorry' look on their face when they've found whatever's left of you from your close encounter.

We all do it, we all push the boundaries, we all want to see the best stuff from however far away, have a great chase, have great stories to tell, some scary moments but remember that we have people that love us that really want us to come home in one piece!

We all love chasing and have the right to do what we want and I don't want to be a complete girl about this, but we are not the only ones in our lives :o)

[James McCormick]

I am fine with people getting as close as they feel comfortable to get their shots. If you are a good meteorologist and a good storm chaser, and you get to your spot in time, to the victors go the spoils. I don't need to tell any good chaser to not become part of the emergency, everybody already knows that.

However, if you need to drive 100+ MPH to get in position because you want to be close... let it go. Get over yourself. Get the distance shot. You didn't do a good enough job to get the close shot on that particular storm. There will always be more storms and more chances. I do worry about the attitude of some who are trying to get as close as they can - the attitude of some that felonies are acceptable in order to make up for bad/inadequate chasing is just ridiculous. People like to blame law enforcement for the anti-chasing attitude that exists in many counties throughout the plains. Chasers have given the cops a lot of reasons to hate us as a community.

[Darin Brunin]

Chasers have given the cops a lot of reasons to hate us as a community.

You mean like all of those lightbars on chaser's vehicles?

[Joey Ketcham]

Yet again, here we are back on the topic of this public perception of storm chasers that so many of you seem to worry about. Why do so many people worry about what other chasers are doing and their method of chasing? Unless you are being directly effected by how they chase, don't worry about it.

And why do you think that there would be this horrible reaction from the public if a storm chaser died from a tornado? Come on, seriously? If a chaser died from a tornado, I hardly doubt the public will care. It might get a mention on the news, but beyond that I doubt it will be made into a big deal. The public won't suddenly hate chasers because of it and it's not going to prompt law makers to make storm chasing illegal. That will never happen, it would be impossible to enforce and it's not practical.

People die all the time in other hobbies; parachuting, rock climbing, racing, and hunting to name a few. If someone died from storm chasing would it really be that big of a surprise? I think the public would be more surprised to know that no chaser has died as a direct result of tornadoes and severe storms.

It's a non-issue that I don't understand why so many people worry so much. People will chase how they want to, there is no stopping it so I don't know why people stress out so much over it knowing it won't ever change.

[Brendon Lindsey]

Haha, well I have had a close call too, last year it was the rain wrapped pigfarm tornado on highway 74 in NC OK I believe. It totally slid my car from one side of the road to the other... it was scary. I got lucky... 30-40 yards ahead of me a a trailer home was destroyed and debris was everywhere. All up in the roads...

I was in the edge of the tornado, and got video, but hey It paid for the whole season.

[Brandon Goforth]

Yet again, here we are back on the topic of this public perception of storm chasers that so many of you seem to worry about. Why do so many people worry about what other chasers are doing and their method of chasing? Unless you are being directly effected by how they chase, don't worry about it.

I don't...I only worry about people who are trying to kill me along with other people who happen to be on the road at the same time.

[mcrowther]

A central part of thie argument is are you out there there chasing storms, or tornadoes? I consider myself a storm chaser first, a tornado chaser second. In many cases, I am more enamored of incredible "mothership" storm structure and other skyscapes than getting video of tornadoes- my main documenting equipment is my DSLR, not my video camera. There have been quite a few cases where I missed a tornado or was 3-10 miles away and was not upset in the least- because I got some incredible storm structure views/photos. Brady, NE in 2000 is a perfect example- we were about 5 miles from the tornado and saw the awe-inspiring structure and the tornado as well. Others were very close to the tornado and got exciting footage, but I would not change my view of that storm for any tornado footage in the world. The Garden City event earlier this year is another example (wish I was there) where the storm structure FAR outweighed the tornadoes IMHO- miles away from that storm was the place to be.
To each his own I guess, but I still think getting close enough to have debris hit your vehicle is nuts- no thanks, and as someone pointed out above, there is always the chance a strong RFD or satellite vortex will come out of nowhere or an escape route will be blocked, and you will be toast.

[Dennis Sherrod]

Last week people were complaining because of no storms.
This week people are complaining because there are nuts out driving wild, chasing the storms and getting too close.

[Shane Adams]

Nobody getting themselves killed will ever change the fact I will always chase tornadoes. There is no way to police chasing...it will never happen.

From a purely video point-of-view, IMO the stuff from 1/4 mile away or less isn't good video at all. Watch it on mute and tell me what's so amazing about it. The escape is what sells it; the tornado doesn't even have to be in the shot (and many times from 200 yards away you can't see it anyway).

But I'm a fan of the old-school style of video, where the tornado itself is the draw.

[Darrin Rasberry]

[QUOTE=Scott Nelson;227244]the more I thought about it-- the more I realize what I've learned from this forum. You're not going to change people who don't want to be changed. QUOTE]

Ya know what I have learned about this forum, and please don't take it personal, but 50% of the conversation is people complaining about what someone else is doing. With all that time spent on that I want to know if others are aware of what they are doing? We all know this camaro guy is a moron, that goes without saying, but to criticize people becuase they want to get REAL footage, AWESOME "i want to see that again!" footage, etc etc... is outrageous. Go ahead, get the same old generic tornado video from 3 miles away, you'll find me getting as close as possible.
I also agree with what Verne said...
I respect everyones opinion, hope you can do the same for me, thanks.

Certainly, but I think the generic videos are by far the best. My top three bookmarked videos from last year are Quinter 2 crossing I-70, the Windsor CO wedge blowing by a golf course with baseball hail landing in a nearby pond, and a 16-year-old's camera footage of Parkersburg before it got too close to her home south of the city. The sole video I bought last year was from a chaser here on the boards who intentionally stays the distance for these "classic" kind of grabs. They're the only ones where the structure of the whole thing can be seen, from the rotation in the parent meso all the way down to the debris whirl on the ground, and that's what I like. Even Reed Timmer, who gets close as much as he can, makes good attempts at angling the camera to capture structure, and that's why I think he's best at "close chasing." As far as witnessing close-range and seeing the action of the tornado up-close, you "close chasers" will always be beaten - by security cameras. As a textbook example, take a look at the Parkersburg bank cams and the one from a southeastern state that shows a direct hit on a parking lot (I think there was a Windsor CO one as well).

Close chasing is your choice, and I respect that, of course. I don't think public perception is going to change, and although there are police out there who don't like us, the three times I've been pulled over while chasing this past two years (once even for a moving violation) have seen the conversation (and ticket situation) switch dramatically toward the positive when I mention I'm out there as a mobile storm spotter. LE's as well as aware citizens appreciate people out there who report storms, and an LE in OK this year even told me (accurately) where to go when he saw my laptop and I told him my data was out of coverage. It would take a major incident of "fiddling while Rome is burning" proportions to have negative action taken against chasers, and even then, it's very hard to prove intent since so many storm spotters (local or mobile) would get harassed.

[Michael Ratliff]

After seeing all of the close calls yesterday in MO, and not just from yahoos like that local Camaro jockey, I am fed up with "let's get as close as humanly possible to the rain-wrapped tornado" or "let's chase this cell until 2AM so we might get a glimpse of a tornado for 1 second in the lightning" or let's core punch this storm with 80 VIL and have our vehicle totaled" etc etc etc.
Matt Crowther


Here is my two cents ....I've heard a few veteran chasers state there is no point to chase after dark... So go home get a good nites rest and Ill post video stills and video in the morning to show you the tornado that wipes out a small town and or homes. You see nite time chasing is dangerous but Ill take my odds over nite time chasing or driving home at 2:00 am in okc on a weekend and getting creamed by a drunk driver. MY chase partner and I not only enjoy nite time chasing but we report what we see. Also roads less crowded...see nite critters .. blah blah But whats Ironic is if chasers stop after dark who reports to the nws or law enforcement of a dangerous sitituation heading towards a town of asleep people?? That 1 second lighting flash in lone grove gave us the view of a violent tonado heading towards town. Just saying ....

As for the destroying vehicles, thats not your problem.. Maybe they needed an opportunity to get a new one ???? I on the other hand have built a core punching machine...And if there is no meso detected with the cell ..you bet your A$$ I'll be in the middle of it finding the baseballs,softballs and or volleyballs lol. I love hail just as much as tornadoes or good structure shots! So with that note see yall in the core!!!!!!

[Jason Boggs]

Myself, I err on the side of caution. Sometimes it inhibits my ability to get good shots, but I don't care. I get very nervous when I get too close, or have limited road options. I guess that's the survival instinct taking over.

Like a few have said here, I also like to get structure shots from 3-5 miles away. Give me a good mothership and my day will be complete. Like Shane said, its no the close up footage that sells, it's all the screaming and hollering when one gets too close. That's why a lot of chasers do it...because they know it sells.

Like my old adage, tornadoes from a distance are the icing on the cake for me.

[Kevin Walters]

In most states if you get a ticket for speeding in a work zone the fine is at least double if not more. It wouldn't surprise me to see something similar applied to storm chasers at some point in the future. If you are caught speeding or driving in a reckless manner while storm chasing you would receive a hefty fine or possibly lose your drivers license.

[Jacob Ferden]

In most states if you get a ticket for speeding in a work zone the fine is at least double if not more. It wouldn't surprise me to see something similar applied to storm chasers at some point in the future. If you are caught speeding or driving in a reckless manner while storm chasing you would receive a hefty fine or possibly lose your drivers license.

That would never happen. Whether or not someone was chasing would be up to the view of the LEOs, and those types of situations were deemed unconstitutional long ago. Work zones are different, they are announced with signs and are laid out well in advance. You would never see fines issued be based on such a fluid situation.

[Karla Dorman]

Non chaser. No car, for one thing. However, if I did have a car, I would pray I was close enough to record the event, but not so close as to BECOME the event. Some take too great of chances ... not me. Would much rather have an out than be struck out. Know what I mean?

[Stuart Robinson]

I must be missing something here?

Just what Is? the fascination with selling video – Sure I can imagine that it funds a few tanks of gas. Perhaps it is because I don’t sell my video – I just show it to my family and friends so that they can understand my passion with severe weather.

What’s the going rate?

[Kevin Walters]

Never say never. In most cases is is fairly obvious if a person is chasing storms. I had a member of the law enforcement community in Cherokee county Iowa tell me "chasing will be regulated in the future". Maybe that was just his opinion, or maybe he knows something.

[Jacob Ferden]

Never say never. In most cases is is fairly obvious if a person is chasing storms. I had a member of the law enforcement community in Cherokee county Iowa tell me "chasing will be regulated in the future". Maybe that was just his opinion, or maybe he knows something.

I'm not saying officers could not make life miserable for chasers. They easily could. All I'm saying is you will never see an official rule like you see with the "fines doubled in work zones" or whatever the rule is in each state. Also, I don't buy anything that comes out of the officer's mouth. If I want to know about what will be "regulated", I'll talk to the people who hired said officer. This isn't a police state, much as some LEOs wish is it was. ;)

[Steve Miller OK]

I think I will go with the adage "to each their own" on this topic when it comes to individual decisions chasers make. My concern is primarily for the people around those who make these decisions, be it the non-suspecting driver sharing the road with chasers to the guy sitting beside you in the car navigating for you.
Perhaps I am a little too business oriented here but I see a ton of personal liability on the line in storm chasing.

The first thing we do when planning an event is call a buddy and get him or her onboard for the long drive to a target. Then we might load in another buddy or two... As the driver of a vehicle with the perceived notion by your passengers that you have their best interests in mind while chasing, you are highly liable for your actions and potential adverse decisions or even accidental encounters.

I'm not sure which tour company it was that got very close yesterday but one did. Do you think those "tourists" had a helluva ride and their monies-worth? You betcha. If that tornado had appeared 100 yards sooner do you think the result would be the same? No. Someone would be having the pants sued off them and every other tour operator would certainly lose their insurance as a consequence. This is a good example of one incident changing the face of storm chasing from a casualty/injury and a business standpoint. (As a disclaimer, I LOVE the chase tour business model; please do not take my comments/observations out of context).

Camero Dude... This guy is personally videoing his lawsuit evidence should he have hit and injured anyone. Why do this? I will note that this is a primary reason ChaserTV does not keep archived copies live feeds. Liabilities aren't pretty and they are everywhere.

David Drummond is the only (private) chaser I know who has his ride-alongs sign a waiver releasing him from liability. This is very smart considering the consequences should something go wrong and the many opportunities there are for all of us out there in our hobby to suffer these consequences. I will probably have one created soon too.

As for getting close or not getting close, I share the opinion of some in this thread that it's dependent upon the storm type, speed, etc. I have a zoom lens on my camera and I'm not afraid to use it if I feel a situation is too dangerous.

[scott r currens]

People die all the time from other extreme sports. I don't see storm chasing as any different. If someone dies in Nascar, skydiving, kayaking, extreme surfing, mountain biking, moto-cross or any other sport they have not been shut down or regulated or cries from the public about when's it all going to end.

I do see your point but none of those activities occur on public streets. We chase on public roadways through towns and cities. When we mess up it can impact non-chasers. I'm not Chicken Little screeming that the sky is falling but I know one thing. The more we as a group are seen as reckless or lawless thrill seekers the more problems we will have with law enforcement, media and the public.

[Derek Weston]

Tornadoes are exciting to see and that's why a lot of people chase.

Their call.

Meh.

Personally... I'd like to get close a time or two here in situations where I know I'm say. Otherwise. . . quite content taking in the storm from a bit of a distance. I like being able to take in structure -- always disappointed when I see a shot of the tornado and can't put it into perspective with the parent storm.

But, I don't get bent out of shape over any of this. It's a personal thing, you know? Unless somebody is interfering with me.

Yeah, one of these days somebody is going to get too close and is going to pay dearly, I'd think. (though this is relatively hard to do) Up to them, though.

[Melissa Jablonski]

I prefer about five miles away. I have had to punch a couple cores in my time. Sometimes it is the only real option. Most of the time I like to stay about 5 miles away. I sketch and later paint the storms so I want the storm structure.
Melissa

[Dennis Sherrod]

I think I will go with the adage "to each their own" on this topic when it comes to individual decisions chasers make. My concern is primarily for the people around those who make these decisions, be it the non-suspecting driver sharing the road with chasers to the guy sitting beside you in the car navigating for you.
Perhaps I am a little too business oriented here but I see a ton of personal liability on the line in storm chasing.

The first thing we do when planning an event is call a buddy and get him or her onboard for the long drive to a target. Then we might load in another buddy or two... As the driver of a vehicle with the perceived notion by your passengers that you have their best interests in mind while chasing, you are highly liable for your actions and potential adverse decisions or even accidental encounters.
.........................


Along these same lines, I have to wonder if videoing an event and sharing it will be viewed in the same light if people post here or elsewhere how they go about setting up events.
If people post their guidelines, rules, methods, etc of how they do things and then something goes wrong, does this not open up a liability issue also by already having these stated in writing that can be gone back and used for or against them? This is especially true if you vary your stated, written methods even slightly of doing something and then it can be used against them.
Nothing against you Steve or how you do business, but this just seems to me to be a major liability issue also by stating how you will do something and if it goes wrong or you change your rules, someone may not know it except for what they read here.

[mikedeason]

I don't think chasing should be shut down or regulated, but it's a bit sad to watch it devolve into just another extreme sport.

"One of my long standing concerns has been that storm-chasers may eventually draw too much publicity, and chasing will become another mass cult of the leisure class, much as scuba-diving or hang-gliding."

David Hoadley, first issue of the real Stormtrack.

[David Reimer]

After reading through this thread, watching the video of the novice chaser going over 100 MPH, and contemplating on my response for a few hours. After reflecting, I believe that while chasers are capable of making the decisions required and are able to get close relatively safely, one group are not, and that is the public. With more and more of these accidental hits by tornadoes surfacing and each time being headlined on major news networks, were going to have more and more problems with members of the general public who just want to see a tornado and dont know crap about meteorology or basic common sense on what is too close begin chasing, believing that they can just drive up to a tornado, get some great video and maybe get on CNN.

As shown by the video with member of the public chasing the tornado, moving at speeds at least two times the legal speed limit on a two-lane road with numerous other cars in his path, I believe we (The Chaser Community) are going to have to at least start adding warning's to our videos, although that really would not do anything. I guess we will see what happens, as I'm sure this video is only the beginning of the waves of novice members of the public heading out with only a video camera and a cell phone. This influx of new "chasers," if they can even be called that. They have no education or experience and that video shows it.

David Reimer
www.texasstormchasers.com

[Jane ONeill]

After seeing all of the close calls yesterday in MO, and not just from yahoos like that local Camaro jockey, I am fed up with "let's get as close as humanly possible to the rain-wrapped tornado" or "let's chase this cell until 2AM so we might get a glimpse of a tornado for 1 second in the lightning" or let's core punch this storm with 80 VIL and have our vehicle totaled" etc etc etc.
What ever happened to prudence in storm chasing? It is NOT a competition, or at least is should not be one. But the combination of readily available internet connections in the vehicle and the ability to show the world your "catch" on YouTube or CNN or TWC is fueling this mania that IS going to get someone killed. So I say- step back, take a deep breath, and re-examine why you are out there chasing in the first place. Is it worth risking your life and possibly others?- no. But that is what a lot of us are doing and we need to stop it. I for one will usually be back 5-10 miles from the storm, getting my structure shots and parhaps missing the tornado. Does that mean I will never get up close to a tornado? No, I will attempt that in certain circumstances where I am reasonably sure that I can do so safely. If the storm is even vaguely HP, forget it.
A caveat to this rant- I am not really directing this at any particular individuals, and I do realize that in some cases a road closure or other circumstances may result in unintentionally getting closer than intended. However, the radical upturn in close calls the last few years is no accident, there is no doubt in my mind that some are taking unecessary chances and this will have bad consequences, mark my words.

Flame me if you wish, but I am firm in this opinion.

Matt Crowther

Hi Matt,

I totally agree with your sentiment in respect to 'gung-ho' chasers...personally I don't regard individuals doing what we have just seen on YouTube as genuine chasers sincerely interested in the study of structure and the components that put these storms together. It may be time perhaps to consider a registry of storm chasers - I'm from Australia and presently over here in the USA with a colleague chasing and studying your magnificnet storms.

On a very much smaller scale in Australia, we have formed the Australian Severe Weather Association with registered members, a number of whom chase regularly in America. I would presume that genuine chasers in America have a devoted interest not only in storm study, but also in safety aspects as we do in Australia - I'm not sure how a registry of stormchasers in America in general would be received by the far larger number of weather enthusiasts in USA compared to Australia. The point I am making is that with a registry of genuine storm chasers/weather enthusiasts, abiding by set down criteria of safety and ethical behaviour, there would be a public separation from the poor behaviour of radical, silly psuedo storm chasers who bring disrepute upon the stormchasing fraternity......in other words, they would not be part of a registry.

Best regards,

Clyve Herbert
President - Australian Severe Weather Association (ASWA)

[Mark Blue]

I was somewhat surprised to read all the rants about the video from yesterday in Kirksville, MO. I saw the video first thing this morning on the Weather Channel and heard Jim Cantore interview "Tornado Tim" several times. From what the man said, it sounded to me like he got too close by accident, saying he came up over a hill trying to maneuver and all of a sudden it was on top of him in a hilly and tree lined area. It really never struck me the way it has some who seem to have their shorts in a wad over what happened. I seriously doubt that laws could be passed making storm chasing illegal. The fact that we live in a free country and people can do whatever trips their trigger is why so many people from other countries move here. It's the best place in the world to live!

[Chris Novy]

But whats Ironic is if chasers stop after dark who reports to the nws or law enforcement of a dangerous sitituation heading towards a town of asleep people?? That 1 second lighting flash in lone grove gave us the view of a violent tonado heading towards town. Just saying ....


Mike:

This isn't necessarily directed at you. It's just that your post stuck a chord with me.

Who reports when the chasers aren't out there? The same folks that have always done the majority of reporting --spotters. There's a big difference between sitting in a field near your home and safely watching approaching nocturnal storms and chasing them down slick, unfamiliar, roads under conditions of poor visibility. There's a big difference between watching storms to protect your family and friends and chasing after them in hopes of getting a flash frame of video --ensuring another media appearance. While some chasers do contribute to the warning process let's not delude ourselves into believing we're all public service-minded individuals out there to serve our fellow man.

Perhaps I'm just an old fart. I've been chasing for something like 25 years now. While I enjoy storms I also value my life and have no desire to promote myself and no need to prove myself to others or associate myself with the "chasing greats". It's just me and the storms. So do I get close? Sure, if I'm lucky enough to be in position and can get there without endangering others. If there are storms close to my home I'll run out and have a look. On occasion I'll ride along with other chasers and share the experience. That said, I pick and choose my chase days.

There are some chasers, however, who obsess over the thought of missing out on a storm that others caught. I've been watching SpotterNetwork a lot lately and have seen quite a few chasers depart their home base, drive across two or three states on a meteorologically questionable day, only to see nothing and return home and to learn there was a great supercell just 20 miles from their house. Sure, we all make forecasting mistakes but it's the OCD-like behavior that's driving many of the newer folks to go after literally anything that moves --day or night. The promise of fame and fortune only fuels this compulsion.

Sadly, for a new generation of storm chasers it's no longer about seeing storms. Rather it's about being seen by others --that there might happen to be storms in your video is just a coincidental benefit. With the advent of YouTube --creating an easy way to share video with little or no cost -- and now with at least three live streaming sites --allowing for instant gratification and a potentially lucrative media deal-- more and more people are chasing for what I consider the wrong reasons. It's like the loser generation who is more concerned with their Myspace or Facebook Internet persona or blog than with their real-world lives.

Storm chase risk-taking is like road rage. Drive like an A-hole and other drivers will get pissed off and in turn drive more aggressively themselves. This cumulative, slow-growing, effect can be seen in large cities where just about everyone adapts to the violent culture of driving. Nobody signals, everyone speeds, and nobody leaves a single gap between cars. With storm chasing aggressive behavior which results in "success" --video appearing on YouTube or resulting in a TV appearance-- simply reinforces bad behavior and encourages others to follow suit. Expect to see people getting ever closer to tornadoes, roads being clogged, and chasers measuring their intercept approach speeds in terms of EF numbers.

You know it was once cool to be a storm spotter. Not any more. It was once cool to be a storm chaser. Not any more. It was even once cool to be a tornado chaser. Not any more --everyone's doing that. Today it takes an "extreme" chaser to get people's attention --especially the media. It's not even about the tornado any more (no matter how close you get) but rather it's about the screaming, the panic, the praying to J that gets you noticed. Watch some of the streaming video. Picture-on-picture of the chaser and the storm. Look at the vehicles. Everyone wants their own TIV now. It's no longer cool to be a chaser. Today yuo need to be an "interceptor" if you want to get noticed.

I'm not knocking everyone here and I'm certainly not knocking technology. Rather, I'm lamenting the apparent end of an era where storm chasing was about experiencing storms (with or without a camera) and about comradery. Sadly it's becoming just another trash sport inherited by a "me me" generation who might be just as happy launching bottle rockets out their asses if it could get them the same attention.

OK, It's time for my Geritol and prune juice. Good night all.

If anyone has archived the Camaro video or knows of a link to it please PM me.

..Chris..

[Eric Treece]

Are we REALLY having this discussion...........AGAIN? We all know it is inevitable (someone killing themselves to get AWESOME footage) no matter how we try to voice our opinions of the matter. Now can we start a thread to clear up the great light bar controversy?

[Dan Robinson]

I think it's natural to want to see the subject of one's fascination up-close. I don't have a problem with getting close to tornadoes, as long as it's a calculated process that can be done safely by someone with experience. In most cases I think it's no different from getting close to a train - just stay off the track.

I would like to experience a tornado up close at least once. Just like with lightning - I love being as close to lightning as I can get (in a safe spot), there are details that you can't observe and photograph at a distance - things like beading, channel drift, upward leaders, etc.

The issue I see with getting close to tornadoes is not the act itself, but how you get there. If you have to drive 120mph on wet roads to do it, then there's a real problem. Getting close to a tornado does not threaten anyone else but yourself, but how you *get there* could.

[Darren Stephens]

I am wrangling on whether to even post about this but I cannot help it. There are so many on here that over think things to the tenth power it blows me away. I AM NOT FLAMING but that is just how some people are...that is okay BUT if an idiot chooses to put him or herself in harms way then get out of their way. If you know that you are doing the right thing and you feel safe in a tornadic situation then that is all you can worry about it. How many threads on here deal with people flaming about some idiot and how it will give us all a black eye. It is going to happen and is redundant to rehash it everytime something like this happens. I apologize in advance if your offended by this just my $0.02.

[Connor McCrorey]

I personally like to be in the tornado itself. Preferably several hundred feet in the air, but I realize that tornadoes with that kind of power only come along so often. I find that "aerial" footage tends to get me the most money, especially if I can work a cow or two into the shot. Also, I find it best to share the experience with others, so I get friends to pay for gas, without telling them the kind of "extreme chasing" that we are really going to be doing. If I can do a self-rating of the tornado while screaming on a phoner and get a glimpse of my lightbars in the stream being aired, it's just icing on the cake.

[Dustin Wilcox]

There's major difference between getting close and being stupid, after watching video of the episode its normally pretty easy to tell what category the cameraperson falls into. I look up to and respect the folks who can get close in a safe and professional manner. There are a select number of veterans that come to mind, watch their video and time and time again you will see them manage to get close in a safe and effective manner, being intense and having fun, but doing so in a professional manner. A good deal of the time when the camera person is "freaking out" to me its nothing more than an indication that they are in way over their heads, and placing themselves into the stupid category...

[Steve Dedman]

Perhaps I am a little too business oriented here but I see a ton of personal liability on the line in storm chasing.

The first thing we do when planning an event is call a buddy and get him or her onboard for the long drive to a target. Then we might load in another buddy or two... As the driver of a vehicle with the perceived notion by your passengers that you have their best interests in mind while chasing, you are highly liable for your actions and potential adverse decisions or even accidental encounters.

I'm not sure which tour company it was that got very close yesterday but one did. Do you think those "tourists" had a helluva ride and their monies-worth? You betcha. If that tornado had appeared 100 yards sooner do you think the result would be the same? No. Someone would be having the pants sued off them and every other tour operator would certainly lose their insurance as a consequence. This is a good example of one incident changing the face of storm chasing from a casualty/injury and a business standpoint. (As a disclaimer, I LOVE the chase tour business model; please do not take my comments/observations out of context).

Camero Dude... This guy is personally videoing his lawsuit evidence should he have hit and injured anyone. Why do this? I will note that this is a primary reason ChaserTV does not keep archived copies live feeds. Liabilities aren't pretty and they are everywhere.

David Drummond is the only (private) chaser I know who has his ride-alongs sign a waiver releasing him from liability. This is very smart considering the consequences should something go wrong and the many opportunities there are for all of us out there in our hobby to suffer these consequences. I will probably have one created soon too.

Steve has hit the nail on the head right here. Getting really close is a personal decision. But suing someone into homelessness for depriving a person of their family due to negligence or reckless behavior is also a personal decision.

If you want to get close in, go for it. But if you do be sure you are fully apprised of the ramifications if you, or one of your chase partners, or a bystander gets hurt. Those are just the financial ramifications. The psychological ramifications are often worse. How will you feel, every minute of every day for the rest of your life knowing that you harmed another in your zeal to get The Shot, or to get an adrenaline fix?

I was involved in a near-fatality accident about 25 years ago. It was my fault; just a momentary distraction. That feeling never completely goes away, and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

Sometimes it's best to step back and remember that there will be other tornadoes, and this one just isn't worth the risk.

AFA as Camaro dude: he's a Darwin Award waiting to happen. If it doesn't come from chasing a tornado, it will come somewhere else (hopefully sans bystanders). Nature has a way of adding just the right amount of chlorine to the gene pool occasionally.

[Warren Faidley]

Unfortunately, the public has been **programmed** by "unreality" television, inept writing and a host of competitive cable news and weather outlets, to expect the flying debris or jackass footage. They rarely, if ever, even question the means of obtaining such footage, even if the means encourages others to do the same jackass thing. What if the media began asking firefighters to "start moving into the flames a little more” for a better shot?

Then again, close calls do happen -- even when you are being responsible. Such events make wild footage and great PR. Most of us, including myself, have been there. So, we need to be careful when criticizing a great clip until we know the actual circumstances. I guess the difference is when someone is going out of their way to put themselves (or others) at risk by being totally irresponsible and careless.

Regardless, the days of shooting a beautiful tornado over an open green field and expecting to market such images or footage are gone. Just last week a producer called me from the UK seeking "tornado footage." Later, he clarified, "No, I'm sorry, you know... the bodies flying through the air stuff." I hung up.

I know this sounds cold, but I doubt there will be much remorse from the chasing community when the first moron gets a splintered 2x4 driven though his spine while doing something stupid.

W.

[Stephen Locke]

The Camaro Kid was not the only invincible one out there yesterday. After the Kirksville storm became an HP mess I was passed by 3 professional chase vehicles (the ones with all the gear up on top). I was driving 55 mph through a 60 DBZ core. There was no shoulder, water was ponding and visibility was zero. These guys were on a mission and I was apparently in their way. I felt 55mph was pushing it . . .

The value of this discussion is in the way it helps to evolve a collective intelligence. Introspection, on the part of Stormtrack membership is an opportunity to help define that collective intelligence and etiquette. If, in general, serious chasers think it is un-cool to be an adrenaline junkie and act like an idiot that sentiment will be expressed over time and will affect behaviour. There are readers who are not participating in this conversation. Currently Active Users: 163 (46 members and 117 guests)

[Joey Ketcham]

Ok, does anyone have a link to this "camaro kid" everyone speaks of cause i have no idea what that whole thing is about.

[Rob Wadsworth]

With as much forwarning that is available to be in the best place for a storm, do we really need to make up the difference by driving faster to get to the target? One may consider that some feel that after diving several hundred miles for a score, that driving w/o any concern for others is appropriate. Camaro dude, you make us all feel ashamed for your actions!

[Eric Treece]

Ok, does anyone have a link to this "camaro kid" everyone speaks of cause i have no idea what that whole thing is about.


I second that. I found the old link on facebook but it has been removed. All the attention this guy is getting I gotta see it for myself.

[Dan Robinson]

Here is a copy of the full "120mph in traffic on a 2-lane road" video:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3a4_1242319398&c=1

[Shane Adams]

After finally seeing the "Camero" video, I'm not that appalled by it. If you remove the shot of him accelerating to over 100mph at the beginning, it looks a lot like video I see from chasers every event: He got close, he had a lot of annoying and sometimes humorous dialogue, and couldn't guess distance to save his life. I think the difference between this guy and a lot of us is, our mistakes and dumbassness wasn't broadcast over the world wide web via YouTube. So for that alone, yeah he gets a Darwin nod from me. But the act itself, hell that's nothing half of all chasers today haven't done at some point in their life.

I think what made the guy "ok" to me was, he wasn't trying to be something he wasn't. It was obvious from his reactions and comments that he was a novice and had little experience. It was actually quite refreshing to see a person in this situation not pretending they knew more than they did.

[Kevin Crawmer]

I heard an interview with Steve-O. Shortly after Steve Irwin passed away. They asked him what his thoughts were and he reverently said "he got the footage". If someone to kill themselves that is fine by me. I get their passion it just isn't for me. I have too much to live for. Heck their car in the air might make for a great picture!

My main worry is the crazy driving. I don't want my family putting flowers out in the middle of nowhere for me. If you make the right forecast and navigate well it shouldn't be that much of a problem. I do realize that accidents can happen but there should be less of them not more in the era of on-board radar and GPS.

[Chris Foltz]

Ok, does anyone have a link to this "camaro kid" everyone speaks of cause i have no idea what that whole thing is about.

Unfortunately, the kid removed the initial video from his FB and YouTube pages so, unless someone happened to archive it for posterity sake, you won't be able to see the most damaging evidence against him. He has posted a shortened version which still shows him being an idiot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKYtVdmgHIQ

[Tyler_Costantini]

Maybe ¼ mile or less is the new norm for tornado chasing? In the past we had so little data in the field also we didn’t really know how close we could get with out getting into trouble. Well now that every thing in the world can record video we are starting to get a good idea where we can go and when can go their. Also if this topic is about storm chasing’s image to the public we should be getting allot more worked up about Sean Casey driving against the grain on I-70 then a few people getting close and making some money off of it.

[Chris Foltz]

If you remove the shot of him accelerating to over 100mph at the beginning, it looks a lot like video I see from chasers every event

And that's the part that really got me pissed off. I wouldn't have been at all upset with him hitting 110+ mph if he were out there by himself with no one else around. I did have a big problem with him hitting 110+ on wet pavement while passing 5 cars at once with oncoming traffic on a two lane highway with very narrow shoulders. No doubt everyone has driven faster than they should but if that's not the epitome of reckless endangerment, I don't know what is.

As for him getting extremely close to the corner flow region of the tornado, I could really care less. That's up to him and anyone else to decide their comfort level.

[Damon Poole]

If it weren't for the bad driving I might not have a problem with this. But, this guy's apparent lack of regard for the safety of himself and others on the road should be unacceptable in any case. Passionately pursuing a storm is one thing, but this ignorance of safety is just plain stupidity. This is real life, not "Smokey and The Bandit Chase The Tornado." Do it right, do it safely, or don't do it at all.

[Jason Foster]

At least the Camaro driver was gracious enough to film himself, so the rest of us will know who he is and that we can avoid and condone his activities. I'm sure this individual, if out on the road again, will have multiple calls to the police at even the slightest infraction.

A comment on those who say they if they want to go out and kill themselves, then so what. The problem with this is while it may appear they are not hurting anyone else (say through a direct act such as an accident), should this person be injured or killed we have to look at those around him like his friends and family. Are there wife can kids? What about his parents? All of these peoples lives would be affected. Look at a few of the chasers in the community that have passed and how it has affected many, if not all of us on a personal and professional level. Why should anyone throw a life away for a simple gain after such a reckless act. Also consider the fact that a selfish act of getting too close to a tornado results in serious injury, and emergency personal have to respond, and then hospital care allocated, which in many events puts a further strain on a system that is already dealing with public injury and casualties. There is more at stake than just injuring yourself than you or others may realize.

[Joey Ketcham]

Is he even a storm chaser? Seemed like to me he was just some guy that happened to be out at the right place at the right time, well.. right place, wrong time.. whichever way you want to look at it.

[Mikey Gribble]

Oh there's no way that guy's a legitimate storm chaser lol. There are some dead give aways on that...
1. camaro
2. camera waiving every where
3. no technical talk

It's gotta be a local or one of the "chasers" that just head out for storms in their immediate area once they see a warning on tv.
I don't realy care what the guy does. I didn't think the video was that great. I've seen a hell of a lot better. I don't know what the big deal is. If he wants to get close, go for it man, but don't expect me not to chuckle if you get hit by it. If somebody that doesn't know what they are doing tries to get extremely close to a tornado then they are asking for it. I'm not going to shed a tear if they get hurt.
Now if an experienced chaser that does know what they are doing gets hurt by some freak incident then I think that's a totally different ballgame.

[Darrin Rasberry]

Never say never. In most cases is is fairly obvious if a person is chasing storms. I had a member of the law enforcement community in Cherokee county Iowa tell me "chasing will be regulated in the future". Maybe that was just his opinion, or maybe he knows something.

He'd have beef with LEO's down in Mills County. I got yanked over there for letting my tags go two weeks over while I was solo chasing there last year, and when I told him what I was doing after he asked what I was up to "all the way out here," he wanted immediately to know where the storms were, and whether he needed to make a ten mile quick trip home to move his Mustang under cover. He approached me initially pretty bored and routine, and I was sure I was going to get ticketed, but he became interested really quickly and related some "storm stories" of the type that people usually get when they're pegged as chasers. After I told him he should get his car under cover (the oncoming storms were hailers), he let me off with a verbal warning and told me to be careful. Craig and I had a pretty similar encounter during a chase in Kansas this year, when a Kansas trooper pulled behind us while we were well on the side strip of a lonely country road spotting and checking data.

Again, regulation would seem not only foolish, but murderously irresponsible. Regulation on chasing would strongly discourage spotters, meaning: less eyes, less reports, more deaths. Lawmakers would have hands wet with blood, and when the media catches wind of this little after-effect and delivers it to anger the public, you can bet some of them won't ever be returning to their seats in their state congress. Besides, all that chasers would do (unless they're the type who will dutifully follow any law issued, even unjust, immoral laws like this would be) is just strip their cars of the bells and whistles, and then if they get pulled over, intent is pretty much impossible to establish. "We were on our way to OKC deciding to take some backroads to get off the Interstate and whoops! Ran into a bad storm."

I remember a thread here some time back about "chasers" beginning to get confused with the "ambulance chasers," i.e. people who follow strong storms and then show up right at the scene of tragedy to pull a scheme. Are you sure he didn't mean that?

[Chris Allington]

Is he even a storm chaser? Seemed like to me he was just some guy that happened to be out at the right place at the right time, well.. right place, wrong time.. whichever way you want to look at it.

Twoards the end of the video in the full version he said... 'that truck up there has a bunch of stuff on the top... They are probably chasing so I'm going to follow them.' Does anyone really want that following them around?

[Dave Kaplow]

Twoards the end of the video in the full version he said... 'that truck up there has a bunch of stuff on the top... They are probably chasing so I'm going to follow them.' Does anyone really want that following them around?

No problem, just don't put "a bunch of stuff on the top" of your vehicle. Problem solved. :)

[Jason Foster]

No problem, just don't put "a bunch of stuff on the top" of your vehicle. Problem solved. :)

He is obviously not a seasoned chaser. But this person, or persons like hime would likely see a telephone company bucket truck and think it was a DOW...and follow it.:p

[Kristi Branstetter]

Oh wow That video should show beginners how NOT to storm chase.

Kristi

[Scott Hammel]

Oh wow That video should show beginners how NOT to storm chase.

Kristi

Yeah no kidding!

Telling the people who like to get close that they shouldn't to me seems similar to telling someone they should switch political party's or religions. Probably not going to happen. Bottom line for me is simple; respect. If you respect what I'm trying to accomplish or what moves me to chase, then I respect what you are trying to do as well. Whether that means getting close or taking photo's from further back, as long as you respect other chasers and the public in general, you won't hear a complaint from me. To me, we're all on the same team here.

As far as the Camaro guy goes the thing that I think irks most people about it is that it is abundantly apparent in his video he is completely oblivious to the danger and harm he potentially could've caused to all the other motorists out there. I'm sure in that dude's mind he thinks he did nothing wrong at all. Well at least that's what ticks me off about it. Anyway, to those who like getting close, keep on doing what you do and be safe.:)

[Darren Stephens]

I got to admit this guy was extremely reckless. I could care less if he wants to kill himself but doing 120 mph on a 2 lane road in traffic???!!! He put so many innocent people in danger. The cops need to find this a55h*le and give him ticket.

[Mike Bennett]

I guess I missed it. Is there a link to the video of the "camaro guy"? Would someone post it again.

[Mike Bennett]

Sorry, I just found it on page 8....

[Jim Saueressig]

Mr Camaro was just a thrill seeking, attention starved douchebag, he was not a storm chaser. Sadly he will add to the negative opinions that are growing towards chasers in some arenas.

Maybe the answer would be for some of you guys doing the videos for the storm chaser shows and doing public interviews after an event to point out the value of real chasers and the non relation to thrill seekers grabbing attention. Start battling that fire before it burns out of control.

As far as chasers getting too close to a tornado that is their business. As long as they are not endangering the public getting to the event or being hit by it then oh well. Every chaser on this board has a different definition of too close. If you don't have the balls to go for the close shots then stay back and get the better distant shots.

And as far as chasing at night? That's when I do most of my work....... To each their own.

[Mike Davis]

I tend to agree with you that there are too many people core punching storms when they have no idea what they are walking into.

It is also my thoughts that there are many out there that are not well trained, not well experienced, and are not among those who always err on the side of safety.

Like Drunks give to drinking, adrenalin junkies can give a bad name to people on a mission to further study our weather.

So, with all that, I have had an adrenalin rush with a Tornado, and understand why people can't resist risking their lives and the lives of others.

[Larry J. Kosch]

:eek:I fear that will be a surge of first-timers, yahoos, what-ever that will try to see how close they can get to a tornado. There was a series on the Discovery Channel last year that made it looks easy to drive into a storm, punch the core, etc. and come out with barely a scratch on yourself.

Now we have the Vortex II team running around and the TWC is running daily updates on the status of the team and where they are. TWC is really not doing the Vortex II team any favor by advertising their location. That's like a reporter on the carrier Enterprise giving the exact coords of his location. Any terrorist groups will pick up on that and send a bunch of scud missiles out.

A untimely death will cast a negative light on the rest of the storm chasing community. And it does happen to the best of us too.

Like the previous comments, we need to educate the general public about how much safety is considered when you go out and chase. When you get interviewed, make sure you put in a "plug" about storm chasing safety. Say something like, "I would have gotten to within 400 yards of that twister, but the safety of myself and the storm chase team comes first."

I myself have always kept my own personal safety in mind when I go out and watch the storms. I'm sure there are rules of safety to follow when you are out there chasing. Hopefully I will be able to see a tornado from a safe distance, not being pelted by rain/hail or flying cows! :eek: LJK.

[Chris Novy]

Oh there's no way that guy's a legitimate storm chaser lol. There are some dead give aways on that...
1. camaro
2. camera waiving every where
3. no technical talk


Sadly, I fear this is the new face of storm chasing. :-(

..Chris..

[Eric Treece]

Ok, just saw the full version of Camaro Dude and all I can say is........how sad. This guy is obviously not a chaser as many of you stated. If by some freak reason this guy IS one, when this death ridge moves in everyone that is bored out of their minds can hunt him down and have an "Intervention" of sorts and set this guy straight. If he kills himself, no big loss, but sadly things never work out that way and he will take out some family and he will walk away from the crash. What a dumb a$$.

[Katie Burtis]

I'm ready for the day that chasing will no longer be the "in" thing to do. I think the downfall of chasing came when TV stations began to make "reality" shows featuring chasers who use colorful language and get pretty close to get the storm. That's what sells these days. It's truly saddening. Sure, people if you want to get so close to the storm that you're in the debris feild or getting pinged with softballs, by all means, go for it. You can have your Darwin award...just don't involve innocent bystanders.

With all the new technology out there, it's easy for anyone to find SPC, drive somewhere in the vicinity of where storms are expected, then see a "famous" chaser that's on tv and follow them. The bad part is that many people out there do not know the dangers storms may possess. Whoops! Didn't see that satellite tornado while I was standing in the middle of the road with a tripod filming myself in front of the camera and innocent people cannot get out of the line of danger because their path is blocked due to due to me in the road along with the mass convergence of chasers!

It's just going to get worse as new chasers like camero boy hits the road and sends his video to all the TV Networks who jump on it and show it to the entire world to see, thus enticing others to do what he did because hey, that looked fun!!! I hope Camero boy gets what he deserves(a little jail time, DL revoked?). If he would have hit someone driving 120, they would have been scraping him as well as a lot of innocent people off that road.

[AndyGabrielson]

What I really want to know is how would you feel if it was a friend of yours who was driving away from a tor and was severely injured or worse due to debris, you don't have to be right next to a tor to be affected by flying debris.
How come people are complaining about tornadoes which last for short periods of time but nobody bitches about people sitting throughout the entire duration of a category 4 hurricane??? how much fun can it be to sit in rain and wind for hour after hour? I realize some of you have been chasing since the era of riding a horse across the wild west and seeing dust devils from 20 miles away and I can respect that. To throw everyone together is the problem I have.
To each their own, like I said I don't want to get or watch tornado footage from 4 miles away, I may take a peek at it but I certainly won't watch much of it. I like to see the different things a tornado does up close. We chased today and I saw more and more of these locals chasing and following actual chasers around than ever before in my opinion.

Have a nice night everyone.

[Melissa Jablonski]

What I really want to know is how would you feel if it was a friend of yours who was driving away from a tor and was severely injured or worse due to debris, you don't have to be right next to a tor to be affected by flying debris.
How come people are complaining about tornadoes which last for short periods of time but nobody bitches about people sitting throughout the entire duration of a category 4 hurricane??? how much fun can it be to sit in rain and wind for hour after hour? I realize some of you have been chasing since the era of riding a horse across the wild west and seeing dust devils from 20 miles away and I can respect that. To throw everyone together is the problem I have.
To each their own, like I said I don't want to get or watch tornado footage from 4 miles away, I may take a peek at it but I certainly won't watch much of it. I like to see the different things a tornado does up close. We chased today and I saw more and more of these locals chasing and following actual chasers around than ever before in my opinion.

Have a nice night everyone.

Dinosaurs actually. I drove the flintmobile and then went to get a brontoburger.:D Melissa

[Stan Rose]

Until i saw the video, i thought, 'whats the big dea'. But driving 120 mph on wet roads with numerous other cars feet away is not at all cool.
And he was driving recklessly to catch up to the tornado, not to get away from it. He shouldnt even be on the road. Obviously he knows nothing about chasing from his narration, but he does give chasers a bad name.

[Robert Dewey]

Here is a copy of the full "120mph in traffic on a 2-lane road" video:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3a4_1242319398&c=1

Thanks, I didn't see the video either.

First, let me say that I think the footage of the tornado is awesome... So what if the guy got close? Why is it that the "chase community" has such a large ethics police force (and worrywarts)?

The ONLY part that angers me is the dangerous passing with oncoming traffic at almost 100-110 MPH.

[Terry Tyler]

If someone isn't harming anyone else, it's really foreign to me to get wound up over what toots their horn.

A good quote to live by. I dont think there are any moral or ethical boundary being crossed by getting close to a tornado. Its something most diehards work very hard for and can sometimes take years to accomplish. As long as your not breaking the law or hurting someone else, you should be able get as close as your want. To me, that is the draw of storm chasing.

[Warren Faidley]

A good quote to live by. I don’t think there are any moral or ethical boundary being crossed by getting close to a tornado. Its something most diehards work very hard for and can sometimes take years to accomplish. As long as your not breaking the law or hurting someone else, you should be able get as close as your want. To me, that is the draw of storm chasing.


The one big problem with this idea (no offense intended), are the first responders who are going to have to assist someone who has done something stupid, that could have been avoided. This means EMS, law enforcement and fire personnel possibly driving through a dangerous storm to assist you... or taking urgent care away from people who were likely innocent victims. This is especially true in rural areas. What if a van full of chasers did something really stupid on the Greensburg day, something that could have been avoided --- and ended up requiring major, urgent medical help? I guess the people in Greensburg would need to wait for care?

I do agree that anyone can do what they want, and I am not referring to those chasers who act in a responsible manner, even if getting close, but there is a line between stupid, avoidable accidents and true accidents that occur even when a person is being responsible and careful.

W.

[Leah Robertson]

Very interesting, thought provoking, and at times, passionate thread to read. I've always enjoyed reading and interpreting multiple points of view...

For me personally, why anyone who thinks it's a good idea to deliberately to place themselves in or very close to the debris field (excluding TIV, etc.) is besides me. It utterly screams stupidity to me but alas, they do have the right put their own lives at risk despite giving many chasers a bad rap. I do agree, to each their own. Tornadoes will always have an unpredictable factor associated with them and all the technology in the world isn't going to disclose this very secret. Without a doubt, there are an increasing number of adrenaline junkies who have migrated to chasing and are searching for the ultimate rush. These individuals are a steady growing number and for whatever reason, lack the ability to understand the seriousness of the situation and how unforgiving Mother Nature can really be. Those who do not appreciate and respect one of the strongest forces of nature might have to pay the ultimate price or have to deal with the repercussions of their own actions for years to come. There's such an elegance tied to chasing: accurately forecasting, applying your skills, attempting to unlock nature's secrets, reminiscing in the beauty of the storm, gathering scientific data, etc.....that seems to be dwindling overall, sadly. Par for the course since today's society has grown accustomed to everything "extreme" and this is being accepted as the norm. The foundation of why we all are drawn to chasing will always be there but it has certainly undergone some dramatic changes over the last decade.

I want to emphasize here that this is not directed towards most in the chasing community as thankfully, those who are extremely reckless are still in the minority.

[Mike Hollingshead]

The one big problem with this idea (no offense intended), are the first responders who are going to have to assist someone who has done something stupid, that could have been avoided. This means EMS, law enforcement and fire personnel possibly driving through a dangerous storm to assist you... or taking urgent care away from people who were likely innocent victims. This is especially true in rural areas. What if a van full of chasers did something really stupid on the Greensburg day, something that could have been avoided --- and ended up requiring major, urgent medical help? I guess the people in Greensburg would need to wait for care?

Call me crazy but it seems like to me the chasers who are right in the thick of it have done more good than bad. They are there and see what has happened and can help, if someone is in need near them. Meanwhile all the distant folks may have no idea what has happened until later. If you compare it to those requiring assistance storm chasing, eh, it's pretty clear to me there's more positive than negative happening with the evil close chasers.

[Warren Faidley]

Again, I think the difference is between those chasers who get close and do so with some care and knowledge of what they are doing, and chasers (including locals) who do so in a foolish, reckless manner.

W.

[Will Wilkens]

It's obvious there are two parts to this contraversy:

1) Wreckless driving
2) Extreme closeup tornado footage

Wreckless driving is wreckless driving regardless of the reasons behind it. Laws against it are in place regardless of why they were doing it. Period. If Wendy's came out with a new bacon burger and everyone drove 150 mph mowing down everyone in their path to get one, would they stop making them or even close down the Wendy's chain? Of course not.

Everyone is responsible for their own judgement calls for safety when trying to get extreme closeup tornado footage. You are either experiencing a close call by accident, or on purpose. If someone gets hurt because they were being a moron, well that's their fault, NOT the chasing community's fault. Morons will be morons. Period. Using the Wendy's analogy again, those same bacon burger fanatics may try to press their faces on the broiling grill in order to get extreme up close with frying bacon. Well, no explanation there. That speaks for itself.

[Steve Miller TX]

Some more incriminating video just surfaced. Chasers getting too close, actually getting caught and spun in a tornado, driving through fireballs & houses, dodging massive chunks of debris, chasing on on foot, and still getting the ULTIMATE shot of the eye of a tornado! Be warned though, two chasers' deaths are also vividly documented.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwFIEt1Dvuk

(Another warning...this is strictly humor!) :eek:

[Dennis Sherrod]

Steve, you almost had me convinced that this was a real chaser video until I saw that there was no way it could be real.
There was NO LIGHTBAR!

[Joshua Nall]

Sometimes stuff just happens. Keeping 4 wheels on the ground at a good distance from any sort of tornadic circulation is my goal... and not being a danger to anyone else. But you place yourself in the path of enough supercells and sometimes stuff just happens. I've done that numerous times over the past three years, been in the vicinity of several tornadoes, but my first time to witness a tornado was the first Roll, OK tornado of this year. I had lost radar updates to GRL3 for about 30 minutes but knew I was in the right spot as I popped out of the rain... started getting large hail with rotation to my right as I traveled E, saw a funnel start to form and decided I better pull into a driveway to see this thing touch down... it crossed the road right behind me.... I dont know how far, but you can see a vehicle on hwy 33 on the other side of the tornado in one of my shots... I'm assuming it's the TVN guys' armored contraption after seeing their video and where they were.

Had I had radar updates I would have been further E. Never dreamed I would get so close to a tornado and I sure would not try to... What I think about, is if I put myself in the path of enough supercells... no matter how careful I am, sometimes stuff just happens... you lose radar, trees block your view for a while, or 90% or the time if you live around here, etc... Maybe this is getting off topic, but.... If a tornado sucks me up..... what a way to go! Don't feel bad and DON'T start a thread about how STUPID I was. There are unavoidable risks to placing yourself in the path of a supercell. All of those that I can avoid, I will. Some risk it all to get really close, that is their right, even though the right and wrong of it regarding their adding to the potential chaos is debatable.

The real question is the safety of nonchasers due to recklessness, and just the fact that chasers add to the number of vehicles in the area. I'm tired of hearing about how some chaser is going to die. Who cares... some mountian climbers die, etc...

[scott r currens]

If some post "To Each His Own" one more time I am going to vomit.

[Steve Miller OK]

To Each His Own

Sorry man, it had to be done...

[Connor McCrorey]

Haha Steve you beat me to it by about 10 seconds.

[Warren Faidley]

Hey guys, I'm not a moderator, but lets try to keep this conversation open and civil before the mods close it. I think its a very important point to discuss, and it is obvious we have assorted opinions.

W.

[Dave Marshall]

I've had a couple unintentional close calls, but many more times I've watched a storm roll over the horizon because I couldn't approach it safely given my road options, and the nature of the storm. That's my personal choice, and its a choice every chaser has to make based on their own willingness to take risks. Though I find it is disheartening and embarrassing how many chasers seem to feel the local laws, and more importantly the laws of statistics and physics, don't apply to them.

My dad and I were talking just a couple days ago, and we both agree that this will probably be the year someone is killed. With Vortex2 (and the associated TWC uberhype), there is an unprecedented number of yahoos on the road, and probably more real chasers than ever before as well. You can't fool statistics. It's gonna happen eventually. I fear for the hobby as a whole when it does.

Anyway, I've been within 1/4 mile of a couple. I had two this year, and it was only dumb luck that kept me from being a hell of a lot closer than that both times. I personally dislike that situation, and I'll adjust my decision making process on future chases with those two 'oh sh**' moments in mind.

1/2 mile is my comfort zone on most storms. That almost always affords a good view, and so long as you're aware of storm motion relative to you, unless its a monster you have no business approaching anyway, it will usually afford enough time to extricate yourself.

One thing I will say, *Many* municipalities, and even some states, are starting to charge people serious money for EMS/Fire/Police responses resulting from blatant carelessness, and you can bet your ass they'll file a storm chasing related injury/accident in that column, whether it really was or not. I can tell you from personal experience, the cost of a medical airlift is $3,000-$9,000.

If you are the person that gets hurt while chasing due to your own proclivities for thrill seeking, don't expect me to start banging the drums to get whatever municipality it is to waive the fees. Nobody throws the skydiver out of a perfectly good airplane, and nobody demands special treatment for the skydiver that goes splat. It isn't *ANY* different for chasers. Personal responsibility is a forgotten concept any more, and because of that, the government has had to adopt this "One person sh*ts their pants, you all wear diapers" mentality.

{/rant}

[Terry Kern]

As other people have stated in here, to each his own. But when some of these chasers that do choose to get up close and personal with tornadoes and are asked why, don't give me this 'were doing it for science and research' crap. Shut up.

[Jerry Funfsinn]

When I look at this subject from my perspective I see this. Would there be as much uproar to this if the Kirksville storm were more of a classic instead of an HP supercell. The people who
tried to "thread the needle" did it in probably the same way I would have? I'm sure the urban setting may have influenced peoples decisions on position. My experience is this, supercells are
uncommon, tornadic supercells are are less common, seeing a tornado is a rare occurrence. Seeing a significant tornado is something,even for stormchasers, may be a once in a lifetime deal.
My point being that as much as I have invested into this passion of mine, I personally go the extra mile to not only see the tornado, but get the best view possible. I'm not a structure,lightning,
or hail buff. I like tornadoes. Any veteran will tell you that judging distance on a storm is very difficult. My experience is that you are often a lot farther away from features than you think
when you can see it. I along with most, always second guess after a chase that we could have gotten closer.
"And if someone is killed, the bad publicity will affect all of chasings."
It may get short term interest but I recently asked co-workers, friend and family the same questions just out of curiosity. I named off well know chasers, veterans and current "stars",
as well as things like the TIV, DOW, all the different probes. The common answer was that no-one knew who or what I spoke of. My take on that is that they know I chase storms but could
give two sh*ts about all the people or projects in the chase world. If you don't think so you can run your own tests. I think people need to look at the chase world from a laymans
perspective sometimes to gauge how we are perceived if at all. I think the layman could spout off the latest viral video on youtube than TVNs latest tornado intercept.
"One thing I will say, *Many* municipalities, and even some states, are starting to charge people serious money for EMS/Fire/Police responses resulting from blatant carelessness, and you can bet your
ass they'll file a storm chasing related injury/accident in that column, whether it really was or not."
I disagree with that statement. If that were the case,the people on the idrivedrunkeverynight.com forum would be in an uproar that they may be charged heavily for there latest accident. Once
again, no-one gives two sh*ts about stormchasing except people in there stormchaser bubble.
All truth be told, back in the 90s I did not see or hear about the irresponsible behavior of well known veteran chasers playing chicken with tornadoes. I loved those videos and still do. This
is certainly not the first occurrence nor the last.

[joel ewing]

I do believe the day is approaching when all of this is going to come to a head, and individual states will attempt to formulate legislation addressing the concerns that we are discussing now. I can envision the day when perhaps it starts by requiring any who chases a storm need to be a certified Skywarn Spotter. And they will need to be annually certified spotters. To expand on this..one possible legislative scenario might be.... only those "certified" spotters that live in the county where the storm is occurring would be exampt from being ticketed. In otherwords, even though I'm from Arizona...and am an "official" Skywarn Spotter....I wouldn't be legal to be on a storm anywhere else but in Pima County, Az. to be exempt from being at odds with the law. Now I know what everybody is thinking..."how in the hell could they ever enforce that?" Well, perhaps they can't enforce it up front...until said chaser is involved in an accident, has a tail light out, runs off the road, blocks traffic, etc. during a storm, is lit up and pulled over. The "non-legal chaser" law could be tagged onto the "back-end" of the initial infraction... perhaps elevating the initial infraction to where one now has the penalty of "double-fine...double-points".
Another thought....once potential legislation aimed at chasing begins to loom large...I think that it would be most unwise if our so-called "chaser-community" wasn't at least somewhat organized, so that we could develop intelligent counter-legislative talking points for use at hearings and in especially the media. IMO, to take away one's freedom to do something so benign as chasing a storm is nothing short of oppression. Please don't think that these kinds of laws simply cannot be made into reality.

[Jacob Ferden]

I think I've already said this once, but I will say it again: laws against storm chasing are unenforceable. People on this thread have mentioned only skywarn spotters being allowed to chase storms. If police were allowed to ticket anyone else, any local resident who just happens to drive down a U.S. highway toward a storm and past a cop could then be ticketed, whether they were chasing the storm or not. It will never happen.

[Joey Ketcham]

I think I've already said this once, but I will say it again: laws against storm chasing are unenforceable. People on this thread have mentioned only skywarn spotters being allowed to chase storms. If police were allowed to ticket anyone else, any local resident who just happens to drive down a U.S. highway toward a storm and past a cop could then be ticketed, whether they were chasing the storm or not. It will never happen.

And if storm chasing were to be made illegal, I would love for a cop to prove that I am storm chasing. The ham radio means nothing, it's a hobby. The laptop means nothing, I work in IT and need to have it around in case I need to VPN into work for some reason. My camera gear is always with me. So I would like to see how a cop could prove that I am storm chasing.

As you said, there will never be laws or regulations that prohibits storm chasing.

[Scott Olson]

There is absolutely no bar, test, aptitude, or any other level upon which someone achieves before they can call themselves a storm chaser. The idea is anyone can be a storm chaser, if they so desire it. Anyone can drive around, steal a kids lollipop, block roads and do any number of things all while their car reads 'storm chaser in big letters'. Not everyone may have the patience to drive thousands of miles to seek the weather but a small percantage of everyone becomes storm chasers when presented with the oppurtunity.

I reliaze that it's sensitive, it's what we do and what we are. Unfortunately, there is so little we, as a body of those who are lives revolve partially around the weather, can do. If a chaser dies (and by chaser what does it really mean?) then that person as an individual human being, took a risk. Are we concerned that someone is going to die, or that the media publicity is going to make our acts of storm chasing sound more dangerous and more reckless? I'm less concerned with the implications for the term 'storm chaser' as the contations will always be worse to me than the general public. There are too many people out there who can carry the name and the flag and drive around severe weather to carry the burden of there particular levels of risk, reward, carlessness, disregard or intentions.

[Brandon Goforth]

I think I've already said this once, but I will say it again: laws against storm chasing are unenforceable. People on this thread have mentioned only skywarn spotters being allowed to chase storms. If police were allowed to ticket anyone else, any local resident who just happens to drive down a U.S. highway toward a storm and past a cop could then be ticketed, whether they were chasing the storm or not. It will never happen.

The only way would be to ticket people for loitering while a severe storm was in the immediate area...but even then it's doubtful.

[Rob Wadsworth]

Taking away freedoms because of a possible isolated pseudo-chaser incident that has yet to happen would amount to gov't interference.

Local gov'ts may put ordinances in place; but even that would take some kind of public outcry due to some heinous occurrence that has yet to happen. We ARE speculating on what CAN happen here.

There might be some way to separate the pseudo-chaser from the bona fide chaser. That way, if a local wraps himself around a water tower by getting too close to a tornado - or causes a chase-related accident - that it can be identified as such. Less impact on the REAL chase community and back on the untrained locals where it belongs.

In Nebraska, Minnesota, and Iowa - the State Troopers and local police depts have given me their approvals. They understand the need to support volunteers who understand hazardous weather and help with the warning process. I can't see any local or state gov't getting their underwear all bunched up if some chase-related accident should happen. They would end up "throwing the baby out with the bath water" if they couldn't figure that out for themselves.

[Jay McCoy]

They couldnt give you a ticket for being around a storm but they could pass laws making it illegal to stop along highways unless it was an emergency and if you can prove your broke down they would ticket you. Wouldnt stop chasing but would make getting a shot much more difficult. In some states its already a law.

I seriously doubt they will "regulate" chasing but if things go bad they could definitely turn up the heat by enforcing existing traffic laws "to the letter" and making our lives miserable. Ofcourse they usually dont have the manpower and are busy dealing with the severe wx themselves but imagine the tickets they could write if they starting looking for things like not signaling, speeding, illegal parking along shoulders, blocking public accesses, uturns, laptops in front seat visible to drivers, etc...Talk about filling their book quickly..lol

I prefer to not piss them off and give them a reason to target us. The more we help them and not cause grief the more lax they will be about our driving behavior...

[Dennis Sherrod]

In Nebraska, Minnesota, and Iowa - the State Troopers and local police depts have given me their approvals. They understand the need to support volunteers who understand hazardous weather and help with the warning process. I can't see any local or state gov't getting their underwear all bunched up if some chase-related accident should happen. They would end up "throwing the baby out with the bath water" if they couldn't figure that out for themselves.

O'Rly? Did these various departments give you written approval to conduct chases or spotting? Was this an approval that is passed along to every officer in these jurisdictions for you so they will know that your chasing is approved?
If so, there are plenty more people who would probably like to partake in this approval.

[Rob Wadsworth]

O'Rly? Did these various departments give you written approval to conduct chases or spotting? Was this an approval that is passed along to every officer in these jurisdictions for you so they will know that your chasing is approved?
If so, there are plenty more people who would probably like to partake in this approval.
Naw Dennis; but all of them that I'd encountered always stood behind me and what I was doing. I meant it in that sense. The point is and was, that LEOs understand the need is greater than they can meet up to. Heck, the ones that I met and talked to had a surprising lack of real weather training. I think that is why they were so willing to tag along with me and report thru their net. I'm not saying that chaser convergence wouldn't skew their thinking - if that should happen. Probably would...
;)

[Terry Kern]

"Taking away freedoms because of a possible isolated pseudo-chaser incident that has yet to happen would amount to gov't interference." It would seem impossible to happen, but with all the federal government interference that's been going on recently, it almost wouldn't surprise me to see the state and local governments follow suit and start sticking their noses in the chasing thing should an incident come to their attention and they decide to take action.

[joel ewing]

With respect to the gentleman that said he had "approval" from the Nebraska, Minnesota, etc. et al LEO's....I'm sorry, I have to doubt that. Although I'm in Az....I'm a Nebraska native. Ask any Nebraskan (or Colorado plated car traveling on I-80...lol) Nebraska State Troopers are some hard core SOB's usually. Not much wiggle room with any of those guys...and definitely no humor. Now, if you met one in a bar and shared a beer with him, maybe you'd see a side other than what they present when they pull you over. But they can and will make your life miserable if you're even a little out of line.
As far as "this would amount to government interference...and this couldn't happen"...oh my God....that is simply naive.
"How could "they" prove you were storm chasing?" Simple. They can backtrack your path with OnStar or any other GPS unit which probably will become mandatory with each new auto that Detroit builds. That's why when I order my new Camaro SS Convertible next year, if OnStar is not yet mandatory....it will be the ONLY thing in the order book that I do not want.

[Jesse Risley]

As Jay stated, it's far easier and much more likely that LEOs would simply target chasers and use their legal discretion to write tickets for minor violations that would normally net non-chasers nothing more than a warning. If you talk to some chasers and care to take their side of the story with complete veracity, this already happens in certain localized areas.

In my experience, this is usually how LE gets the message across to segments of the population that are viewed as a pain in their orifice. These would be technically legal citations and they discount the need for additional legislation against storm chasing that would be more impractical and rather hard to enforce. If LE develops an indignation towards chasers, they have the system on their side, and unless you chase to the exact letter of every traffic law (and none of us do), you might end up going home with a coupon for $100 off of your next paycheck.

[Jason Foster]

With respect to the gentleman that said he had "approval" from the Nebraska, Minnesota, etc. et al LEO's....I'm sorry, I have to doubt that.

I wouldn't just doubt it, I believe it is outright wrong. No written light permit will ever be issued to anyone in any state from my research. You either have to be permitted to use lights without a permit, be associated with some sort of emergency service, or a business identity. To have a permit in more than one state, you have to be a commercial business with certain types of business licenses (such as construction, or interstate EMT transport), as one state will not accept any request for lights for an entity outside of the home state. It's a matter of individual state rights and liability.

Now, perhaps more clarification is necessary on that from said individual.


To go back on topic....is getting closer and closer really netting that much more business, and hence the push to do it, or does it seem to be more of an adrenaline thing? Frankly, I think that video looses it's viability once you get to the point where there is nothing but rain, debris and other misc. muck in the view....not so creative. It certainly make for more news type footage than quality stock style footage.

[David Drummond]

I'm not going to worry about it. Pretty much all my chasing these days is related to media aspects, and when any one LEO decides to start trampling my First Amendment rights to document and report severe weather events, attorneys and courts will be involved and they lose their job or sit on desk duty just like about every other LEO has had to do that after they illegally interfered with the media's job of covering an event.

Don't get me wrong now, I have tremendous respect for them and I always ask permission to be in any scenes and follow any instructions they have made to everyone in the area to keep safety and security. 99% of the time it works out nicely.

However, should push come to shove and one tries to target me solely because I am specifically covering a severe weather event, then that violates my First Amendment rights and, well, I just will have to stand on them.

I think too many of you take the "what if" propaganda that has been floating around for 2 decades now a little too seriously.

Some chasers have been proclaiming regulation of chasing for that long or longer now, and it ain't happened yet, and it's not going to happen.

Every single really stupid tactical move I have seen by any chaser has always been covered by another law some place. If you guys really want to get the camaro dude for what he did, he posted the evidence and his face all over place, go on an internet witch hunt, get his info and the video and start a letter writing campaign to the law enforcement officials there. The evidence is there to convict him on several items.

Otherwise, let it go. Bitching about it on the internet is going to amount to nothing more than bitching about it on the internet.

[Adam Lucio]

^ I agree.

Sure the Camaro boy video angered me but my first thought was "what can I do about it" People like him will get whats coming to them eventually. He will never amount to anything in the chaser community as he pretty much outsed himself by being wreckless. He will never go anywhere with his chasing "career."

The only thing hell get out of it is some cheap 1 night action from some bimbo that thinks hes a brave superhero...and then die of the STD that follows.

Chasers can get as close as they want, I just would rather see it done the right way and with less "OMG DEAR LORD HELP ME IM IN THE TORNADO" audio.

[mikedeason]

^ I agree.

Sure the Camaro boy video angered me but my first thought was "what can I do about it" People like him will get whats coming to them eventually. He will never amount to anything in the chaser community as he pretty much outsed himself by being wreckless. He will never go anywhere with his chasing "career."

Not to pick on you or to defend the guy's actions, but does it really matter if he "amounts to anything in the chaser community?" Many of us have been chasing for years and "don't amount to anything" in the chasing community and we don't really give a rat's rear end either.

Hell, I'd even argue that his irresponsible driving has already rocketed him above a lot of people in his chasing "career" if we measure chaser success by the consensus present day standards and expectations. That is, everyone is talking about him and he's getting his fleeting moments of fame.

[Dennis Sherrod]

The only thing hell get out of it is some cheap 1 night action from some bimbo that thinks hes a brave superhero...and then die of the STD that follows.

At some of our ages, at least the first half of that scenario sounds pretty good.

[Rob Wadsworth]

With respect to the gentleman that said he had "approval" from the Nebraska, Minnesota, etc. et al LEO's....I'm sorry, I have to doubt that. Although I'm in Az....I'm a Nebraska native. Ask any Nebraskan (or Colorado plated car traveling on I-80...lol) Nebraska State Troopers are some hard core SOB's usually. Not much wiggle room with any of those guys...and definitely no humor.
Let me clarify. I never said that I had ANY written permission for any state govt. I was pointing out that in all the encounters with the LEOs in those states, they were helpful and I helped them. If you had problems with them for whatever reasons, my condolences. So far, it has been a positive experience with all of the State Troopers from those various states. I was saying all of this, because IF there was a chaser convergence - a la Kansas - then they would surely probably get all bent out of shape.
Clearer now?

In effect, the chaser convergence plus the nutty driving by locals calling themselves 'storm chasers' could well give us all a black eye. We don't need it nor deserve it. Local govt's need our eyes and skills. It would be foolish -or stupid- for them to toss storm chasers out as a resource if some unfortunate event should take place. That would be a greater tragedy.

[joel ewing]

David, you yourself are media related, and possibly feel some sort of vague protection from LEOs interfering with your rights, but I'm guessing that the majority of ST readers and fellow chasers are not under the media umbrella. Therein lies the rub. If the rest of us receive tickets for "illegally chasing storms" then our reality becomes one where if we choose to fight the charge, then we'll have to 1.) pony up for an attorney 2.) report BACK to the county courthouse where the ticket was issued to appear in court (what if you live in Lubbock, but got the ticket in Omaha?) 3.) point out to the LEO the "I gave to the policeman's ball" sticker on the back of your chase vehicle...no, not really)..
But you get my drift....
If LEO's want to f@#$$#k with you over this...they can, and some undoubtedly will. And we chasers will be left twisting in the wind, with the onus upon us to try to rectify the situation.

[David Drummond]

It's not that I feel any vague protection at all Joel. To the contrary I have a very strong protection in the First Amendment of the US Constitution to do what I do out there.

If you really wanted to push that a bit further. In this day and age with all the websites, blogs, ireporters etc, just about anyone can call themselves, and in fact be, a "journalist" and the police really can't say you are not, because then we get into the whole thing about government getting into deciding who gets to be "press" and who doesn't, which flies in the face of "free press" anyway. Arguably, the "new media" of the internet is overtaking traditional media by leaps and bounds.

All that aside though, I just don't understand why some chasers are having issues with cops. After 25 years of roaming the plains I can't think of a single incident with a LEO while chasing that was negative, even when I got a ticket (because I deserved a ticket). In fact, I know some instances where they gave me a break BECAUSE I was a chaser. I can't help but wonder if some of the one's having issues had some sort of an attitude that made the situation be negative, or something.

I've seen posts on here of chasers bitching because some cop got on their ass or gave them a ticket, and it seems in every case I read, the chaser WAS at fault and in violation of the law. They made not have liked it, and maybe the cop could have given a warning, but in the end, the chaser WAS at fault. If you are at fault, take you lumps with a smile and go home.

You speed, you know it's a risk you get a ticket, or any other violation. I speed sometimes. I have gotten tickets. I say thank you and pay my fine because I damn sure deserved that ticket. I knew the risk and got caught. I don't blame the cop and say he hates chasers because he is doing his job. I know there have been a couple of documented exceptions. I know in at least one case they guy in unemployed now and was having issues way before the "chaser incident".

You know for that matter, in all these years I just can't recall all that many chasers I have see in front of the red/blues on the side of the road either.

I have found just about all LEOs are about as interested in the weather as we are when it's in their neighborhood, and few know much more than just a little bit about it, and are extremely happy when you share some info about what's going on, or even a little roadside education in why the storm is doing what it's doing goes a LONG LONG WAY in chaser/police relations.

Remember, if they come up to you and inquire, they chose YOU for information they need to keep themselves and their communities informed during severe weather. Don't underestimate the importance of that.

[nickgrillo]

Honestly, I'd be hardpressed to say that any girl would consider a storm chaser (or "insane kid driving a Camero ruining chasing for all the real chasers") a superhero for any reason, at anytime -- besides for the 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.1 % of the female population -- who is actually interested in severe wx.

The only thing hell get out of it is some cheap 1 night action from some bimbo that thinks hes a brave superhero...and then die of the STD that follows.

I saw the video. Honestly, it's NOT the worst I've seen, albeit it is indeed some extremely close footage. I've seen some equally "reckless" behavior (i.e. in terms of speed and proximity) out of some known chasers within the "community". The whole speeding argument is what makes me laugh; EVERY chaser has exceeded the limit during a chase -- and I'm not talking about 10-15mph over, but more like > 30mph over, even if rarely. I'm not arguing in an attempt to defend this guy or his behavior, but people get too worked up over stuff sometimes. If the pattern wasn't so lousy right now, this thread wouldn't have gotten half the attention that it has. Melodrama is par for the course within the online chaser community (even though half the people on this board have never actually chased a storm).

I'm sure storm chasing will be a federal crime with mandatory prison time before the year 2012...and we'll all die of swine flu!

[Joey Ketcham]

All that aside though, I just don't understand why some chasers are having issues with cops. After 25 years of roaming the plains I can't think of a single incident with a LEO while chasing that was negative, even when I got a ticket (because I deserved a ticket). In fact, I know some instances where they gave me a break BECAUSE I was a chaser. I can't help but wonder if some of the one's having issues had some sort of an attitude that made the situation be negative, or something.


I STRONGLY agree with you David. I really do not understand how so many people have such bad encounters with cops. In the 13 years I've been chasing I've chased all throughout the Midwest and I have had plenty of encounters with cops and each time they were very respectful and polite. Yes, I have even been pulled over for speeding and even then the officer who pulled me over was respectful.

Just recently we saw a chaser get on here and bitch and moan, and overall having a bad attitude about getting a citation because of having something mounted to the windshield so I am inclined to believe that the person probably displayed that same kind of attitude towards the cop which probably pissed the officer off and led to a citation.. I am pretty sure that a lot of these bad encounters is a direct result of the bad attitude the chasers get, in this day in age everyone tends to think they are an expert in law. Many people don't realize, your attitude is typically the deciding factor in whether or not you get a citation or a warning when pulled over. Sure, some cops will have it set from the moment they light you up that they are going to cite you, but for the most part cops will decide based on your attitude. So yeah, when a chaser gets an attitude and tries to act like they know how to do the officers job and know the law that is going to piss the cop off and probably turn it into a bad experience.

[Adam Lucio]

Not to pick on you or to defend the guy's actions, but does it really matter if he "amounts to anything in the chaser community?" Many of us have been chasing for years and "don't amount to anything" in the chasing community and we don't really give a rat's rear end either.

Hell, I'd even argue that his irresponsible driving has already rocketed him above a lot of people in his chasing "career" if we measure chaser success by the consensus present day standards and expectations. That is, everyone is talking about him and he's getting his fleeting moments of fame.

No it doesnt matter. My point was that we wont be seeing much of this guy, it was an isolated incident that will get him his 15 minutes of fame, zero money because he gave his footage away, and allot of bad mouthing on the internet. Allot of people seem concerned that people like him are the next up and coming breed of chasers...the local yahoo has always been around, its just easier for them to make themselves known now.

This guy will not ruin our reputations, ones reputation is earned by his or her own actions. For as long as I can remember, the sterotype of storm chasers has always been that we're a bit crazy...adrenaline junkies mixed in with science geekiness. That has never changed, and probably never will.

I do find it funny now that hes got all these copywright claims going on youtube now. Still a major tool in my eyes and I hope that camaro of his received some nice chaser trophies from flying debris.

[S. McMullen]

Honestly, I'd be hardpressed to say that any girl would consider a storm chaser (or "insane kid driving a Camero ruining chasing for all the real chasers") a superhero for any reason, at anytime -- besides for the 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.1 % of the female population -- who is actually interested in severe wx.

LOL! I think you meant .0000000000000000000000000000000001% but I get it. Lucky for me my wife is my chase partner and I don't have to worry about that, best of luck to the rest of you.

The sad part about that day was that the only footage I saw in the media were videos from the people that had close calls and then to add insult to injury they actually interviewed these guys about their close call. I was just thinking to myself, how the hell do I compete with this? I remember back in 2007 when Amos had his close call down in Tulia, TX. However he had the decency not to release the footage and profit from his bad chasing decision. We could all learn from that.

[Robert Dewey]

However he had the decency not to release the footage and profit from his bad chasing decision. We could all learn from that.

The term "decency" and the statement "bad chasing decision" are all relative to each individual, though. I'm a capitalist, and don't see the problem with releasing such footage for monetary gain (hell, you could even donate it to your charity of choice). There are much more disgraceful exploitations going on in the world, and driving through a tornado should be the least of anybody's PR worries.

[joel ewing]

David, your post just about nailed it from any direction...as far as I'm concerned. Well done.
One thing is for sure, the internet is making for a new kind of media. Just last week, we here in Tucson had one of it's oldest two daily papers shut down permanently.
Since I've followed this S.Track thread from it's inception, and posted a few times...I've had some time to think about it all with a few day's breaks in between my posts. What I've concluded in my pondering is that for a couple of years now, I've mentally and emotionally been feeling some "heat" regarding possible upcoming infringements upon our legal rights to storm chase in the unimcumbered manner in which we all know and love. Are my fears based upon actual negative experiences with law enforcement that I've had while chasing...no. I'm like you, David. Most of the time when I've gotten a ticket on the road...I flat out deserved it. And each time, I told the officer that I had no hard feelings, that he made a fair bust. No, my fear is the result of a myriad of things, one of which for certain is the current mindset of some chasers that they need to market themselves and their vids from an angle of "Incredible"..."Insane"...et al. This is not a shot at R.T. I've defended him in StormTrack several times. Never met him. But I don't think it takes much mental extrapolation to see how this mindset has taken on a life of it's own...and once the plains get completely out of hand with wannabees that want their own insane vids...legal attacks aimed at stormchasing will not be far behind.

[Andrew.Gardonia]

oh my, this thread has gotten out of hand.

[S. McMullen]

The term "decency" and the statement "bad chasing decision" are all relative to each individual, though. I'm a capitalist, and don't see the problem with releasing such footage for monetary gain (hell, you could even donate it to your charity of choice). There are much more disgraceful exploitations going on in the world, and driving through a tornado should be the least of anybody's PR worries.

Maybe I should have put it this way...most chasers that market their video do so in a way that is much like a journalist or reporter who documents and reports the story but they don't try to become the story. This is the way it should be done. Of course, if some production company wants to do a show on a chaser about them being a chaser then that is different, its a show about chasers and thats it. But when you're marketing your video to the news it should be about the tornado and whatever damage it caused and not about yourself.

[joel ewing]

Mr. Gardonia, why do you think this thread has gotten out of hand?
Good luck bagging your first tornado.

[Matt Gingery]

I just watched the video of this IDIOT! Not only is he breaking the law without any respect, he is tagging along behind other experienced chasers. This lumps him in with us, and I personally don't like it. Law enforcement has a tough enough time trying to protect the public and inform, to deal with this guy. He had no idea of the storm motion, or any storm knowledge at all. He is really lucky that he isn't seriously injured or killed. It would really be unfortunate if idiots like this give us experienced chasers a bad name. When I saw him talking into the camera at the end I could only think of one word, "MORON!". I think they should lock him up with the camera evidence of the speed he was doing, in fact I think they could prosecute him for that. Go ahead Highway Patrol, lock him up as an example. I hope that law enforcement can decipher idiots like that between experienced veteran chasers.

Not to try and promote this jerk, but anyone else that would like to see what an wreckless idiot is, here is the link: http://www.break.com/index/storm-chaser-catches-tornado.html

[Jason Boggs]

At the end of the Mike Ambrosia (Camaro dude) video..

"I'm gonna head back home and show all my"__________

A. Friends how big of an idiot I am
B. Relatives how I can drive in circles and say "God, help me".
C. Video with my face so I can be sure to get prosecuted.
D. All the above DING DING DING!!!

[joel ewing]

Okay, Okay, I'm gonna get flamed like Joan of Arc here, but I'm gonna say it anyways. I just now...for the first time...saw the vid of the "Camaro Dude". (thanks to the above post for the link). For several days now, I've been reading and hearing about this "EeeeViiiilll" guy who....almost got killed by the tornado he was chasing. Well, watching the vid, I guess he didn't rub me the same way he evidently has everybody else. In fact, towards the end of the vid, I actually had my hand over my mouth and was grinning. Are you kidding? This vid's frickkin' great!! What more could you want....this obvious newbie got so shook up he was praying to God, Buddah, Tony Soprano and everybody else. He probably literally leaked in his diapers a bit. And through it all....and most of all...he reminded me of ME back in the day. And you know what...I'll bet he reminded you all of yourselves a bit too. Don't lie.....many of you have dropped the hammer in your chase vehicles when nobody was lookin' too. I've seen more than a few of you do it. And yes...be honest here....you've blown past a lane full of vehicles like they were sitting still en route to what you only hoped was a tornado at the time. S--t...it wasn't too many years ago west of Concordia that I hydroplaned and did a full 180 and back at 80mph!! Not one bit of exaggeration there. If Hertz would have found out about that, they would have black-balled me for life.
The "Camaro Dude".....hmmmmph. Hell, he didn't even cuss once. Would somebody please adopt him...give him the web addy of Storm Track and invite him inside? Let him learn. I'll bet he never gets that close to a tornado again. Remember...life is nothing more than a series of adjustments. This guy belongs in here...and in my view....has earned it.

[Bryce Stone]

I don't think anyone's mentioned that this Camaro fellow did his 120 MPH stunt with one hand (the other was holding the camera).

At least he had the good sense to pray for divine intervention during the tornado he placed himself into. :rolleyes:

[Andrew.Gardonia]

Mr. Gardonia, why do you think this thread has gotten out of hand?
Good luck bagging your first tornado.

Joel,

please call me Drew or Andrew as Mr. Gardonia is my father lol...:D

and I just saw all the bickering going on and thought it was kinda getting out of hand.

[Melissa Jablonski]

Hey ,Drew do you agree with me on this? It seems to be age and experience vs youth and exuberance. And no I don't mean either are wrong . I also know that doen't mean the young haven't seen tornadoes or the older haven't seen them up close. An earlier reference to us shooting video of dust devils from 20 miles away kinda over looked a few huge tornadoes . Let's work together not against each other we are all right.
Melissa

[joel ewing]

Drew, it can get VERY lively in here. You must be fairly new to S.T. In fact, within the past couple of years, the owner had to completely crack down and spring a whole new bunch of rules at us....as many were really attacking each other...lots of times over stupid stuff. All in all, a great bunch of folks in here, but we be passionate.
'Taint for the timid, laddy.

[Adam Lucio]

If he thinks this thread is bad I cant wait for the next thread that someone posts of a dust whirl tornado. Then well see some real bickering.

[Michael Towers]

Getting close is a personal decision, as long as a chaser isn’t putting someone else (involuntarily or unknown to them) in danger I don’t care. Chasing is inherently dangerous to begin with, just getting under a meso exposes a chaser to increased risk and I bet the vast majority of people here have been under one with their head on a swivel. We all have our own motivations when chasing, we all are responsible for our own choices. Last I checked this is still a free country where individuals have the right to exercise their freedom to pursue their interests within the law and I doubt the confines of the law will change in regard to our interest. If a chaser is motivated for whatever reason (money, curiosity, passion, etc.) to get as close as possible it’s their choice and ultimately their risk/reward. If you want to taste debris then go for it, just don’t bring someone unknowingly or unwillingly to dinner with you and don’t endanger others on the way.

Regarding “Camaro Dude” Michael Ambrosia, the only problem I have with his encounter was his reckless approach. Aside from that it was obvious he was overwhelmed by the environment and got in way over his head. It was clear through his actions he was inexperienced and indecisive, and now that has become apparent through his own words. He’s posted an almost full version of his encounter minus the reckless approach and seems humbled by the experience. Whether it’s genuine or contrived is debatable but I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt and hope he truly did learn a lesson. His new version is entitled “My Tornado Encounter 13MAY09, lessons to learn” and his comments reflect his inexperience and acknowledgement of how lucky he was to survive unscathed, let alone survive.

“This video is a lesson for myself and all who see it. Don't do what other people are doing around tornadoes. Both times I stopped because other people stopped and it gave me false confidence that it was ok, but it wasn't. I like to have a copilot to help me look out for making mistakes like that, but this particular time I didn't have time to pick one up. Anyway, I'm still here by the mercy of God.”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKYtVdmgHIQ&feature=channel_page

Dude, if you’re reading this, until you get more experience and understanding of storm environments forget about getting a co-pilot and find yourself a pilot that knows how to fly. And when you graduate to pilot fly safely and have regard for the safety of those around you!

[Dan Robinson]

The irony of all of this is that the driver (and those on the road with him) were more at risk from him going 110 mph than he ever was from the tornado. He shouldn't be so much thanking God for surviving the tornado as he should be thankful he didn't lose control of the car at such a high speed (very easy thing to happen).

Once again, tornado dangers getting more hype than they deserve and detracting from what the real risks of the situation were.

[GlennMartin]

I tend to think many of these "in the tornado" chasers are not experienced. Completely different from the category of those who like to get close in a measured way. What leads me to say this is from personal observation of those driving into hp mesos with strong g2g shear as if they expect to "see" it in time to make an escape and the many chasers I witness right "underneath" strong mesos on my gr3. I once thought they must be able to see well enough to be there even though it looked likely to be obscured in rain but after seeing the many videos from Kirksville and a couple from last year I know this is not the case. With the explosion of technology really almost anyone with limited experience could head into x marks the spot situations with in vehicle radar now so this is not surprising. The only reason these chasers live to see another sunrise is that particular tornado was not strong enough or that piece of debris flying by just missed them. Will the next one be as forgiving? I think of Plainfield, ILL 1990 still no photo of the actual tornado exists to my knowledge? This F5 was wrapped in rain. Other F5's have had no condensation funnel Depauw, IN 1974 comes to mind among others. Other more recent EF4's have been obscured in rain through part or all of their life cycles. Doswell's Pampa, TX video 1995 shows what a violent tornado can do to a vehicle among others. If you survive the trip up and the countless missiles you will not survive the ground impact. I have personally witnessed a van rolled into a little ball of metal. These things leave lasting impressions on me.
The media are pushing for more and more extreme videos and there will always be daredevils willing to provide the shot. They don't care about you or your safety they just want extreme footage and they are just as likely once a couple of these daredevil chasers get killed to call for limits to be put on storm chasing. That is how the media works they push for a story and then instantly turn on you for giving them their story. Its perverse but that is the reality. Having said all this I defend anyone's right to get as close as possible or even drive into a tornado if they so desire just know the possible consequences to yourself, your loved ones and the hobby. Tell your survivors if the unthinkable happens not to blame the hobby for your demise as people in mourning sometimes thrash out in irrational ways. For those of you who say there is no way storm chasing could ever be regulated, perhaps not but many regs and laws have been passed over the decades regarding stunt flying for example when many deaths resulted from daredevils in that hobby. Happy chasing!

[scott r currens]

I see the "Camaro Kid" Michael Ambrosia is selling his car.

http://kansascity.craigslist.org/cto/1185032750.html

[D. Hayes]

Sorry but I'm just catching up on this long thread. But I was wondering if anyone pointed his local law enforcement agency to this video? It's plainly obvious he's putting people in reckless danger and they can press charges against this idiot for doing this based on his own video evidence on break.com. He gives his name and location so it's pretty cut and dry.

[Jesse Risley]

Sorry but I'm just catching up on this long thread. But I was wondering if anyone pointed his local law enforcement agency to this video? It's plainly obvious he's putting people in reckless danger and they can press charges against this idiot for doing this based on his own video evidence on break.com. He gives his name and location so it's pretty cut and dry.

They probably could press charges, but that gets into territory that many DA's probably don't wish to deal with. If he doesn't live near the area where the violation occurred, it becomes even more problematic, at least from a fiscal standpoint. I'm certainly no jurist, but I can imagine there are lots of legal technicalities involved with trying to prosecute a case based on a video recording.

I would imagine it's easier for an attorney to mount some sort of reasonable doubt defense based on a defendant's own video being used against them, as opposed to being caught "red-handed" by the police.

[Jason Foster]

Are we really talking about being "in' the tornado...or just close....I mean as someone who had to experience a tornado from the inside the tornado inside a house......I don't see where many of these videos and accounts are really "inside"....more of just close anyway.....I love that some are like "We just when though a tornado" yet they drive away in their car. I think it shows how the idea is a one-upmanship and being better than someone else, or proving themselves to someone is the goal more than just enjoying the phenomena.

I also don't think this has to do with level of experience or skill level....it's more a characteristic. It use to be that only a certain type of person chased, but now there are so many. Personally, I'm not as open as I use to be because I've seen that certain personalities and characteristics just don't make for good chasers that I want to be around.

[Jason Foster]

They probably could press charges, but that gets into territory that many DA's probably don't wish to deal with. If he doesn't live near the area where the violation occurred, it becomes even more problematic, at least from a fiscal standpoint. I'm certainly no jurist, but I can imagine there are lots of legal technicalities involved with trying to prosecute a case based on a video recording.

I would imagine it's easier for an attorney to mount some sort of reasonable doubt defense based on a defendant's own video being used against them, as opposed to being caught "red-handed" by the police.

It's a matter of proof, video alone cannot convict and it would take eye witnesses and the right of the accused to face their accuser. Bottom line, you need police on the scene in this kind of scenario.

[Rob Wadsworth]

Do you think this Camaro dude had learned his lesson that day?
Or - do you think he is dumb enough to do it again?
I think he learned his lesson. After all, he was fortunate that it was weak and he really wasn't close enough to the circulation to pick up his vehicle and get thrown about. One would hope and think that he knows better now.
We will see...

[Adam Lucio]

It's a matter of proof, video alone cannot convict and it would take eye witnesses and the right of the accused to face their accuser. Bottom line, you need police on the scene in this kind of scenario.

I know Im no law student but how could they not convict him? He cleary video taped himself doing it and even pointed the camera at himself. If video alone isnt enough then what is the point of having security cameras? :confused:

Theres stories all the time about dumbass kids who beat each other up and then get charged after posting the video, I really dont see how this is any different, unless it simply boils down to people being lazy and not wanting to do the work involved to get the deserved result, which in this case is a hefty number of tickets or a suspended license....IMO it would be worth a days worth of paperwork and coordinating with different jurisdictions....but thats based on my lack of knowledge.

[Jesse Risley]

I know Im no law student but how could they not convict him? He cleary video taped himself doing it and even pointed the camera at himself. If video alone isnt enough then what is the point of having security cameras? :confused:



I think this type of a video is harder to use than an official security camera. As a general rule, a traffic violation is written for a specific location where and when the violation actually occurred. Could that be gathered as evidence directly from the video?

The video would need to show exactly where and when he committed any traffic violations to likely net a conviction. Additionally, an attorney could present the argument that the video could have been edited by this guy for entertainment value or as a joke.

Video makes a nice addition as evidence for any case, but you rarely hear of video being used as the sole evidence for prosecuting a case with no eyewitnesses and for which no other tangible evidence exists. I'm certainly not defending this moronic driving behavior, but if I were a DA I would probably be a little hesistant to jump on handing out a summons given the circumstances.

[Adam Lucio]

Interesting, well in this case we know where the tornado crossed and Im sure it can be found what road he was on. I dont remember if the video itself is a continuous video or if it jumps around during the timeline a bit...I could see if he drove the 120...stopped recording and then started recording again 10 minutes later how it may add some confusion or uncertainty...and hell, some jerk lawyer could even argue there was someone else driving while he was talking or something stupid.

I guess its a flaw in the legal system. Oh well.

[Jay McCoy]

Not sure if anybody else saw the video today on CNN of somebody getting up close toa large tornado yesterday but it was hilarious how the CNN wx guy was commenting on it. He was blasting the "chaser" for being so close. Talking about how debris could easily hit him and he said "a NOAA radio and a camera does not make you a chaser but you got it on CNN so thats something I guess" being extremely sarcastic.

Usually I could care less how close somebody gets if they feel thats what they need to do BUT...the guy in ther video is screaming the whole time about how big it is and how its doing damage and that he "way too close". He is sooo loud and non stop that its beyond annoying. Its much better video when its muted (hint hint). Have no clue who shot it and dont care really just thought it was hilarious how even the media folks who go overboard on everything even said this was overdoing it. Next time just film it and dont say a word and it will be much better quality. Yelling about OMG its huge and Im too close just makes it annoying..

[Mark Sudduth]

It was AJ Fable. Wasn't there someone named Fable last year who "faked" a tornado? Showed some old video from a Kansas tornado and passed it off as being recent or something. I seem to recall the name "Fable". That's all I have on this matter.

[Jim Saueressig]

I have said before I think it is within our rights to go into the damn thing if we want..... As long as we are not hurting another.

On the Florence storm the other day I was going under the wall for a wide angle shot hoping it would drop next to me. There were chasers already filming and or running with their cameras to film the funnel, hoping for a soon to be tornado all over the side roads and on the shoulder about a mile to mile and a half away so I wanted to go on up closer and some yahoo (I hope not a chaser) tried to block me by running out in front of me. I zipped around him and another yahoo trying to block 77 with his pickup (or turning around in the middle of it very slowly but blocking it all the same) and went on down the road up under the edge of the wall to shoot my shots.

If I want to go up under it out where no one will be effected if I did get tagged I think that is my concern. Maybe if I am unlucky those of you back a mile or so will get lucky will get video of me being dropped on or thrown by a nader.... That being said I am not truly interested in being hit but it was obvious I wanted in closer than some of the rest of you out there a mile or a mile and a half away.

[Jared Thompson]

This was the video I saw that I think Jay was mentioning.. it is also on Foxnews.com http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=011008&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=6093785&referralPlaylistId=playlist

[Joey Ketcham]

It was AJ Fable. Wasn't there someone named Fable last year who "faked" a tornado? Showed some old video from a Kansas tornado and passed it off as being recent or something. I seem to recall the name "Fable". That's all I have on this matter.

I don't know about the faked tornado stuff you speak of, but AJ Fabel is a member on here.. goes by AndrewFabel... he's not very active, only has like 9 posts but he was active on here as recent as June 3rd.

[Robert Dewey]

Not sure if anybody else saw the video today on CNN of somebody getting up close toa large tornado yesterday but it was hilarious how the CNN wx guy was commenting on it. He was blasting the "chaser" for being so close. Talking about how debris could easily hit him and he said "a NOAA radio and a camera does not make you a chaser but you got it on CNN so thats something I guess" being extremely sarcastic.

Usually I could care less how close somebody gets if they feel thats what they need to do BUT...the guy in ther video is screaming the whole time about how big it is and how its doing damage and that he "way too close". He is sooo loud and non stop that its beyond annoying. Its much better video when its muted (hint hint). Have no clue who shot it and dont care really just thought it was hilarious how even the media folks who go overboard on everything even said this was overdoing it. Next time just film it and dont say a word and it will be much better quality. Yelling about OMG its huge and Im too close just makes it annoying..

I seen that... incredible footage. But, the yelling is ridiculous. He sounds like the guy from the popular Tourette's syndrome skits on YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqtr_RvR3sY) [caution: strong language].

[Jay McCoy]

I have said before I think it is within our rights to go into the damn thing if we want..... As long as we are not hurting another.

LIke I said I dont really care if people get close up or not if thats what they need to do to get satisfaction. This was more about the yelling and screamin the entire length of the video about how big it is and how close he was and all the damage it was doing. Very annoying. It ruined the video. On mute it is wild video but with sound its something I would prefer to not watch. Not to mention it makes the person look foolish and unprofessional to the public which is what the CNN wx guy was saying. He was blasting the guy.

[Danny Neal]

Who was the guy that altered a tornado (I think mirrored it.... Mulvane? or another) and passed it off on major news companies.

[Jim Saueressig]

LIke I said I dont really care if people get close up or not if thats what they need to do to get satisfaction. This was more about the yelling and screamin the entire length of the video about how big it is and how close he was and all the damage it was doing. Very annoying. It ruined the video. On mute it is wild video but with sound its something I would prefer to not watch. Not to mention it makes the person look foolish and unprofessional to the public which is what the CNN wx guy was saying. He was blasting the guy.

LOL, Jay, My reply was general not at you at all. I agree though, there are some chasers that I cannot watch their video because of all that trash. My least disliked line is I'm (insert feet or yards here) from it..... when in fact it is more like a half a mile or a mile or more in some cases.... :D

I was pretty irritated at the morons trying to block me the other day and this was the right thread to spew a bit.

[Dan Cook]

Who was the guy that altered a tornado (I think mirrored it.... Mulvane? or another) and passed it off on major news companies.

Andrew Fabel I believe.

[Joey Ketcham]

Andrew Fabel I believe.

I found an old ST post about him..

http://www.stormtrack.org/forum/showthread.php?t=17392

[Tarmo Tanilsoo]

Andrew Fabel I believe.

Now that's interesting. Yesterday and today I saw tornado video from someone called "A. J. Fable"(Not sure on spelling of last name) on CNN International.. And the weather folks on the international side weren't very easy on him.

EDIT: It seems for me, that I saw the same video Jay did.

[Joey Ketcham]

Inside Edition this afternoon reported that he had his 2 young son's with him. If someone wants to get close to a tornado putting their own life in danger, then so be it that is their choice and I don't really care. But when you go putting the lives of others in danger, especially your two young kids, that is just being reckless and irresponsible.

I don't know how old his kids might be, Inside Edition said they were young so I'm assuming they probably aren't old enough to stay home alone, drive or didn't really have a choice but to go with their daddy on his storm chase as he probably had nobody who could watch them.

[Joey Ketcham]

Now that's interesting. Yesterday and today I saw tornado video from someone called "A. J. Fable"(Not sure on spelling of last name) on CNN International.. And the weather folks on the international side weren't very easy on him.

EDIT: It seems for me, that I saw the same video Jay did.

A.J Fabel.... A.J are the initials of his first and middle name.

[Chris Carter]

Sounds like we have alot of Jo's out there.

Qoute from the movie Twister "I wanna see it, I wanna touch it!"

A close call to me is accidentally making a mistake and getting too close to the action. People take cover from tornadoes for a reason, and being a chaser doesnt give us the right-a-way to come up within a stones throw of it and take pictures. But if people want to gamble their lives, well then i wish you luck and hope you get some awesome pictures. But me, i like to stay back and watch the whole picture. Cameras do come with "zoom" you know. :)

A friend of mine once told me, there is more to a severe thunderstorm than just a tornado, sometimes you have to step back and get a good look at the whole show.

[Warren Faidley]

I've come to the conclusion that getting deadly close is the new way of tornado chasing. Many people find it interesting, like bull fighting. I honestly have no problem with it anymore, although I don't personally push the limits on purpose. In addition, I doubt that anyone getting torn apart will slow things down. We all have free choice and I think the only issue right now is trying not to be the first guy or gal killed by getting too close. What a way to be remembered!

This is the way tornado chasing has evolved -- (as once feared by David Hoadley) -- just like mountain climbing and scuba diving. My own prediction is that tornado chasing will indeed soon be like other risky pursuits and a certain number of dead or maimed (by twisterizing) will be accepted as part of the pursuit and not a big deal.

I guess the only good is that the media is slowly getting bored with close up shots because there are almost an unlimited source of them now days and videographers are willing to accept .50 and bragging rights for a clip that use to fetch over 5k.

I'm glad I'm at the age where I value my life and long term health (e.g., being able to walk, play the piano, have my vision) and the camaraderie now days more than getting too close. But it's here to stay so sit back and enjoy the show!

W.

[Dan Cook]

But Warren, what if you:

Play the piano next to a tornado? :)

[Warren Faidley]

But Warren, what if you:

Play the piano next to a tornado? :)

The way I play, the locals might be in more danger from my music....lol

[GlennMartin]

Without getting into the "too close" debate again, I have a side issue which will always be somewhat subjective i imagine. A few years ago I was filming a tornado in open country in Illinois from about 1.5 miles away which began being wrapped in rain and hail limiting its visibility when two vehicles approached I decided on the spur of the moment to walk out into the road as i was filming holding my hand up, they slowed of course and the young girl in the first vehicle asked what is going on? I told her a tornado was about to cross the road just ahead which caused her immediately to turn around in fear, in the second car the elderly man driving just sat there realizing the danger and waited till it passed. I like to think I did the right thing and perhaps saved the girl from injury or worse and the elderly man the same. I read years ago that several people drive right into large visible tornadoes completely unaware. That is hard for us "weather aware" people to imagine but most people have tunnel vision just trying to get to where they are going.
Realizing that I greatly dislike being blocked when chasing, as has happened to me by law enforcement and citizens a few times over the years. I know the officials are doing their job and we must respect the law but we all spend countless hours and finances chasing down our passion and it is annoying when someone blocks the road. Now in the above case they could have passed me on the left I just wanted to let them know of the veiled danger ahead and it was purely a split second human response. Thoughts?

[Erik Perozo]

Glenn Great Point
I had the privilege during the Albany,MO tornado in 04 to do the same for some locals that where about to drive right into the backside of that tornado. They acted as if they didn't have an idea of what was going on.

Matt I agree with you to a point.

I started stormchasing in MS where I grew up and viewing a tornado or structure from 5-10 miles away just isn't going to happen. If you wanted to see something then you had to get as close as possible to see it, unless you were fortunate to go to the MS Delta where it looks like Kansas. Other than that the only chance you had to get any distance shots were if you happen to drive past an open field that might be 10acres if you were lucky. I guess that style of chasing translated to the Plains where I felt that I had to get to close to see things. Now I have put myself in some serious situations that could have been avoided but doing that taught me a few things. I chase with a close friend of mine who is a NWS employee out of Charleston and he prefers chasing as you. He doesn't like getting closer than 5 miles. We sometimes conflict on that but in situations as that it's always better to respect the further point from danger. I have really enjoyed some of my photography from 10+ miles from the meso. For me it all depends on the type of storm, speed, visibilities and terrain. Any wise chaser knows his/her limits. If they choose to get in situations that they know are going to put them too close then that is their own decision. I truly hope that no chaser regrets the decisions they make in that matter but I am afraid that we are close to hearing of chasers getting killed doing so. As the years progress more and more chasers hit the roads not knowing what they are doing but I can't throw a stone at them because we all were at a point sometime in our chasing careers where we just wanted to hit the road and see something.



Great Topic Matt

[Greg Stumpf]

Rent "Riding Giants (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riding_Giants)". Highly recommended if you want to draw its parallels to the evolution of storm chasing.

[Dustin Wilcox]

I imagine this disscussion rekindaled after MANY had real close intercepts with the Hwy 34 tornado. Personally I think it's a thrill to get close, every time I get close enough to hear the roar of a tornado that sound replays in my head for days and days after, IMO the roar is one of the most incredible parts of a tornado. That being said, I would never put my life in any kind of jepordy for a tornado, no tornado is worth injury let alone death. I agree you see it more and more, folks getting stupid close; but IMO there was no stupid close with yesterday. The reason you saw so many chasers close yesterday is because it was an ideal setup for a close intercept, slow tornado moving due East right down a wide open hwy. It was ideal, you filmed until the absolute last second, when it got to close you went East half mile, and completed that process for 20 minutes, it was exactly the kind of stuff I dream about!

[AndyGabrielson]

agreed dustin, exactly why i stayed as close to the goshen county tornado on the 5th and the tornado near Schell city, MO on the 10th, dont forget you can buy a wide angle lens :)

[Jason Foster]

My least disliked line is I'm (insert feet or yards here) from it..... when in fact it is more like a half a mile or a mile or more in some cases.... :D


"I caught a fish this big!" scenario.

The video isn't bad without the sound. I forgot I had the headphone plugged in and watched most of it without the sound.

Close, but didn't seem outrageously close to me, kinda reminded me of the beginning stages of hurricane (where he was, not the tornado) with the small debris and winds (guessing) around 60-70mph.

That's the great thing about video...you can always turn the idiot commentary off (quality of it myself from time to time).

[Sarah Glenn]

Possible thread hijacking, but...

I noticed tonight that I had one "Andrew Fabel" as a contact in my e-mail; upon looking, I remembered that in early 2007 I had sent him an e-mail to the_tornado_research_center@yahoo.com (as did a friend of mine) for some kind of "internship opportunity" to chase for a few solid weeks and "do research." Unfortunately, I didn't keep whatever e-mail solicited us to e-mail him about the internship, and (fortunately), we never heard a word back. Just thought it was an interesting morsel of information, considering what else I have heard about him from last year's thread and now this screaming video of his (or so it seems).

[Mike Krzywonski]

Inside Edition this afternoon reported that he had his 2 young son's with him. If someone wants to get close to a tornado putting their own life in danger, then so be it that is their choice and I don't really care. But when you go putting the lives of others in danger, especially your two young kids, that is just being reckless and irresponsible.

I don't know how old his kids might be, Inside Edition said they were young so I'm assuming they probably aren't old enough to stay home alone, drive or didn't really have a choice but to go with their daddy on his storm chase as he probably had nobody who could watch them.

I just viewed Inside Edition. The 2 kids were not w/ the chaser (Fable?) whose clip is being discussed. They were w/ Brandon Ivey, whose footage was also shown, but he wasn't nearly as close as Fable was.

[Jim Saueressig]

Are we gonna roll with this kid issue again? I take mine with me alot.... I also don't get real close or punch any cores at that time however.

Kids can go along for a chase as long as you have extra limits. The kid aspect is what has kept me on many structures rather than in the thick of things for a tube....

[Matt Hughes]

Inside Edition this afternoon reported that he had his 2 young son's with him. If someone wants to get close to a tornado putting their own life in danger, then so be it that is their choice and I don't really care. But when you go putting the lives of others in danger, especially your two young kids, that is just being reckless and irresponsible.

I don't know how old his kids might be, Inside Edition said they were young so I'm assuming they probably aren't old enough to stay home alone, drive or didn't really have a choice but to go with their daddy on his storm chase as he probably had nobody who could watch them.

I watched the stream the whole time and the boys were never in danger. Brandon did a good job of explaining himself on the CBS Early Show this morning. Here is a link (http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5097046n&tag=contentBody;cbsCarousel).

[Joey Ketcham]

Are we gonna roll with this kid issue agai.

If the chaser with their kids is getting right up next to tornadic circulation with debris falling all around them... then yes we are going to roll with the kid issue.

I have no problems with chasers taking their kids, if they're playing it safe. But having your kids and getting that close to a tornado with debris falling around you is just being careless and irresponsible.

But I see that it was Brandon who had is kids, I didn't actually see the Inside Edition story.. I just heard from a couple of people talking about it that he had his kids with him.

[Jim Saueressig]

If the chaser with their kids is getting right up next to tornadic circulation with debris falling all around them... then yes we are going to roll with the kid issue.

I have no problems with chasers taking their kids, if they're playing it safe. But having your kids and getting that close to a tornado with debris falling around you is just being careless and irresponsible.

But I see that it was Brandon who had is kids, I didn't actually see the Inside Edition story.. I just heard from a couple of people talking about it that he had his kids with him.


And you will notice that I said:

I also don't get real close or punch any cores at that time however.

Kids can go along for a chase as long as you have extra limits.


I think it is a great experience for kids to go along on a chase as long as you are not being unsafe. Generally you are safer following the beast rather than being in town with it coming towards you.

[Justin Wiley]

I wish me and my dad would've gone chasing when I was younger. That would've been sweet!

[Jay Cazel]

Brandon did an interview with KWCH-12 last night and I saw the video and he was close but not real close. I have taken my kids a few time with me (close to home type of chase) and I do chase different with the boys but they seemed to like it. Like Jim said I don't punch hail cores with kids in the car.

Originally Posted by Jim Saueressig http://www.stormtrack.org/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.stormtrack.org/forum/showthread.php?p=232640#post232640)
I also don't get real close or punch any cores at that time however.

Kids can go along for a chase as long as you have extra limits.

[Payton Gannaway]

There is no way in the world I would get my kids as close as he was when they were backing up down that dirt road. There is also no way that I would have my kid telling me if the roads clear behind me while driving in reverse with a tornado right in front of me. I understand the whole idea of wanting his kids to see it, but imo that was a little close. Something small goes wrong you're in a little bit of trouble. Nothing wrong with staying a few miles away.

[Jason Boggs]

I watched the video and the kids were safe the whole time. This isn't even an issue.

[Martin North]

I have to agree with Brandon. He would have been some way closer than that if the kids had not been with him.

Wish I'd have done something as exciting as that when I was growing up. ;)

[John Dudgeon]

Simply put, it was a like a home-schooling field trip. The current storm opportunity allowed the parents to focus on what the kids were currently interested in...earth science. I want my daughter to learn the same respect and admiration, and yesterday, also wanting to give "mom" a break for a day, I took my daughter with me to chase in Northeast MO. We had a good time together, and it was rewarding to see her fascination, followed with the "why and how?" questions. The storm we caught up to in Macon, MO never went severe, but it was photogenic enough to run with for 20 miles or so, before stopping for dinner. :)

http://www.redearthcoffee.com/images/US36_6-19-09.jpg

[Jim Saueressig]

I think that the chaser accidents and such getting to the storms has proven that just driving around is more dangerous for us and our children than chasing the storms....

[Greg McLaughlin]

I just watched the CBS video. Brandon, you rock! I think it is awesome your kids had that kind of opportunity to see a tornado. When I have kids and they are old enough I will definately give them the opportunity to go on a chase with me, if they are interested. Anyone who criticizes someone for doing what Brandon did, well thats just plain WEAKSAUSE!

[Melissa Jablonski]

John Dudgeon, Glad to see another homeschooler on here. Our son begins his Senior year this year. We have homeschooled since first grade. If I misunderstood you at least I am glad to see a person talking positively about homeschooling.
Melissa

[Jason Foster]

Going back to the Fabel bit....did the networks ever find out, or confirm it was the same person, maybe trying to work around old ills? I see a few places the video is still available. I'd figure the networks would have pulled the video if they found out it was the same person that burned them last year.

[Bryan Stokes]

One of Stormtrack's own, Jon Davies, has published a wonderful storm chasing book for kids. It's called "Storm Chasers! On the Trail of Twisters!" and can be found by clicking here (http://www.onthetrailoftwisters.com/).

My wife and I picked up an autographed copy at the NSSC for our 9 year old nephew. We both read it cover-to-cover and found it to be an outstanding book for kids. It will spur their curiosity and launch their imagination. Jon Davies really did a nice job writing this book.

Bryan