Radar Question

[Rich Long]

I have discovered our spotter group is using a piece of radar called Weather Sentry. This is costing us approximatly $6,000 a year. It's built for Public Safety and we are a volunteer part of the FD here (read city supported spotters, CERT team, and running the Rehab unit).

Most of the group agrees that this is a "bit much" for what we are doing so I'm hunting radar packages. I've been looking at the GRlevel X products but the question I have is which version? I like level 2 mainly because of the analyzer program, but I'm worried about how difficult it is to use and I read somethings are not automated that are in GRlevel 3.

What do you think?

[Skip Talbot]

Rich, there are trials available for both 3 and 2. Why don't you give them a shot? For your purposes I'd recommend adding some Allisonhouse feeds. You can get some additional products like lightning, which would probably be useful for you guys.

[Chris Allington]

Rich,

Not sure how met savy your group is but I can recommend GR3. If will give you the basics: Base reflectivity, composite reflectivity, numerous veloctiy slices, VIL, POSH, warnings, ect. The analyst edition adds the 3d product which IMO isn't a necessity. Additionally, if you are using this on the go on a laptop, GR2AE can slow up quite a bit on a cell or data connection.

Also, just as Skip said you may want to consider added some Allisonhouse feeds. There are alot of need things out there depending on your application.

[Phil Kurimski]

I would recommend GR3 out in the field mainly because of bandwidth as GR3 downloads the level 3 data which is more coarse than the level 2 data. GR2 and GRAE are good in that they provide the higher resolution level 2 data...however this comes at a cost with much bigger files. The level 2 data comes all at once...in files that are a few MB per volume scan. Imagine that coming in every 4-5 minutes! As Skip eluded to there are trial versions...nothing beats giving them a trial run to see what you prefer and how much it will slow your system down.

Good Luck!

[Greg Blumberg]

It really depends upon what you need. If you could tell us your needs in relation to the your job, that would help a lot in telling you which product you need. Also could you tell us what you mean by "somethings are not automated in GRLevel 3?"

GRLevel2 Analyst is hard to justify in regards to the purchase unless you really, really understand what the program is telling you. Lots of functions and algorithms, but do you really need the volume explorer?

I'd say that in order of knowledge needed, necessity, and functionality regarding the GR packages, they'd go in the order like this:

Beginner: GRLevel3
Moderate: GRLevel2
Advanced: GRLevel2AE

I want to expand on what Chris said about the cell and data connection. Anything regarding Level 2 data for the radar is much, much more Internet intensive compared to Level 3 data. So GRLevel2 and GRLevel2AE probably would not be good for you if you are out using a cell phone connection. It can be done, but the downloads of the radar data takes much, much longer.

In addition to the difficulty of the program, ask yourself this question: How do you read radar data? What radar products do you use in order to make your decisions? GR products are easy to use, but it's the way that you use them and interpret the data that matters. GRLevel3 has at least 20 different radar products that you can view.

Depending on what I know so far (which is the only information you've provided), I'd say GRLevel3 would be your best bet.

Also, I don't know anything about Allisonhouse feeds. I use free radar data feeds in order to save my money.

[Joe Dorn]

We have a very large spotter network covering several counties in the southern part of the FTW CWA. Because of the area we cover, we have multiple net control operators and all but one use GRL3. Most of us also have the AllisonHouse feeds and Tyler's SN feed which is free.

Some of also have mobile connectivity so that we get the GRL3 data as we roll. Level 2 data is a little to intense for a mobile spotter. We have a combination of 'air cards' and teathered 'cells'...

I still use some of my pre-GRL3 programs but the single most important tool I have at home or on the road is the Gibson Ridge Level 3 program with AllisonHouse feeds.

I have used most of the other services in the past...

A couple of us also have GRL2AE but we are the more serious weather nerds.

In a live event with multiple spotters and in some cases multiple storms, I do not have time to use GRL2AE. I primarily use it to watch out of area activities.

[Rich Long]

Thank you all so much for the reply. Our situation is kind of unique. We are a volunteer group tasked with assisting the local paid fire department with Rehab functions for the fire fighters, being a Community Emergency Response Team and being the city weather warning point. When we recieve a warning we notify the police and fire dispatcher and they dispatch units to drive thru areas and use thier PA system to warn residents. We wil be getting a siren system soon and we will be the ones pushing the button as it were along with the PD and FD. The radar suite we have now is horrible and not cheap so we are looking to upgrade.

The more I have been looking I think you all are right and I'm going to play with Level 3. Just downloaded the trail and of course I can't find a rain shower to save my life..lol I looked at the allhouse feeds and it seems pretty good since we really need lighting data for outdoor city events. What kind of add ons are available for this software? I assume it can do street level mapping?

forget what I said about "not automating" I misread something. I wish there were more documentation out there for this..lol

Rich

[Greg Blumberg]

I know I do highway level mapping with place files from GRlevelstuff.com. I would check that website out. Also I think there are street level place files as well.

Also, I wanted to add that WeatherScope is another awesome piece of software. It's distributed freely by the Oklahoma Climatological Survey. It has tons of add-ons, but some are a little difficult to find. I'd go and check it out though.

[Lanny Dean]

Rich,
Of course GR is a fine product (I have both 2 and 3) but have you looked at StormLab? www.interwarn.com (http://www.interwarn.com)

I own and run a Chase Tour company and use both GR and StormLab. I really can't say that one product is better than the other but I can say that StormLab has q few options that GR does not.
One being Pathcast. This is a where you can plot the storm(s) and pull up a pathcast for each individual cell. For me, it is extremely valuble!!!
Also, Interwarn is a wonderful product as well and I would recommend taking a look at the website before you make any purchase.
Evan Bookbinder is the developer/owner and is also a meteorologist and the National Weather Service in Kansas City and gives very good support for the product.
If you could stand to spend the money for both products (GR and StormLab)
man that would be the way to go!!! Might want to look it over
Good luck,
Lanny

[Danny Neal]

I second Stormlab. I have GR3 and Storm Lab and if I can work out the bugs with StormLab (nothing with the software, just haven't quite integrated GPS with it yet) then it would be optimal. GR3 is the best while chasing though because it gives you the basics, and depending on your internet provider and service area, will always get a timely update.

[Tim Shriver]

I find a combination of both GR3 and GR2 work well.
I would recommend them both along with the feed from Allisonhouse.

Gr3 for the attributes and GR2 for the greater detail.

Together they are unbeatable and fully useful.

If you looking for alerts on watches warnings. HWOs and AFD I
recommend Weather Message. Very configurable and robust.
Many more options and abilities then Interwarn.

Tim

[Randy Bowers]

One additional benefit of GRlevel3 is the ability to view radar data from Nashville's terminal doppler weather radar which is located in northeastern Williamson County. If I remember correctly, you're in Rutherford County, so this would be something that you may want to take advantage of. You cannot view TDWR with GRlevel2 or GRlevel2 Analyst. Also, check your PM.

[Joe Dorn]

Rich,

If you could stand to spend the money for both products (GR and StormLab)
man that would be the way to go!!! Might want to look it over
Good luck,
Lanny

GRL3 is in my opinion very cheap for the service it provides and should not break any civic budget at $80.00 one time charge. The AllisonHouse feeds cost about $140.00 a year and is very reasonable for what you get.

There are many options to customize the GR products and as far as I know, other than AH, all are free. A donation is appreciated by some.

GRL2AE is a little on the pricey side for the amateur at about $250.00 OTC but is one fine program for the money. I would recommend customizing and using GRL3 for several months before going into GRL2AE. As far as I know all of the add-ons are transportable between the GR products.

I have not used StormLab mentioned by Lanny.

[Andrea Griffa]

Nice discussion, guys.
As for Allisonhouse my question is: is there any problem to run it on the Mac? I mean, if you want GRLevel 3 on the Mac you have to wait 10 years:p I find it's a shame that there's no possibility to have that softwere on Mac computers.
Anyway I hope that this is not the case of Allisonhouse...Anyone can give me an answer?

[rdale]

AllisonHouse isn't software, it's a data source for those packages. GRLevel3 can be run on a Mac quite easily with several emulator packages.

[Greg Blumberg]

Andrea, if you are looking for radar solutions for the Mac, I'd recommend WeatherScope.

http://climate.ok.gov/software/

It's free and works pretty darn well in overlaying surface data, radar, maps, etc. I'd definitely check it out. I use it off and on, depending on where I am.

[Andrea Griffa]

AllisonHouse isn't software, it's a data source for those packages. GRLevel3 can be run on a Mac quite easily with several emulator packages.

It's a data source, it's true, but you have to download an installer that doesn't work for mac. By the way, it doesnt' work even if you have an emulator such as "parallels desktop" or any emulator like that. That's the reason why I'm asking if that problem doesn't exist with Allisnohouse.

[Andrea Griffa]

Andrea, if you are looking for radar solutions for the Mac, I'd recommend WeatherScope.

http://climate.ok.gov/software/

It's free and works pretty darn well in overlaying surface data, radar, maps, etc. I'd definitely check it out. I use it off and on, depending on where I am.

Thanks Greg, nice software;)

[rdale]

It's a data source, it's true, but you have to download an installer that doesn't work for mac.

GRLevelX software can run on Macs that have Parallels installed.

That's the reason why I'm asking if that problem doesn't exist with Allisnohouse.

AH doesn't provide any software. They provide the data for the software, and their feed will work with GRLevelX running on a Mac.

[Andrea Griffa]

GRLevelX software can run on Macs that have Parallels installed.

You're wrong because it is not possible, I tried and I couldn't do it. By the way it is also specified on the GrlevelX forum.

http://www.grlevelx.com/trials/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1031

Here is the message error:

"could not find grlevel.cfg"




AH doesn't provide any software. They provide the data for the software, and their feed will work with GRLevelX running on a Mac.

Too bad, this means that I can't have it on my Macbook....

[rdale]

By the way it is written on the GrlevelX forum.

http://www.grlevelx.com/trials/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1031

That post is from 2004. A lot has changed since then.

From the GRLevelX owner's forum:

"The easiest solution is to use Parallels. The latest version allows for all the features in GR2AE to work perfectly. "

"You can run GR2AE inside VMware Fusion for OSX. Look into that."

"The new version of parallels on mac allows for full integration of the software. In GRLEVEL3 it even supports smoothing. All the features in GRLevel2AE work flawlessly... Great news for us mac users!"

"Parallels 4.0 now supports smoothing with GRlevel3.
I think that is great news for mac owners."

Etc.

[Andrea Griffa]

That post is from 2004. A lot has changed since then.

From the GRLevelX owner's forum:

"The easiest solution is to use Parallels. The latest version allows for all the features in GR2AE to work perfectly. "

"You can run GR2AE inside VMware Fusion for OSX. Look into that."

"The new version of parallels on mac allows for full integration of the software. In GRLEVEL3 it even supports smoothing. All the features in GRLevel2AE work flawlessly... Great news for us mac users!"

"Parallels 4.0 now supports smoothing with GRlevel3.
I think that is great news for mac owners."

Etc.

Man if this si true it could be fine! Anyway I tried few months ago but I wasn't able to make it working and I read the same error message...However I will try as soon as possible.

I would be happy to hear a comment of a mac user to confirm rdale's opinion.

[rdale]

Just to clarify - that's not my "opinion." I don't have a Mac and have never tried.

Those quotes were from 4 Mac users on the GRLevelX forums. You might visit the forums if you're still having problems.

[Josh Durkee]

I can confirm 100% that GRLevel 3 and AE both work perfectly (at least for me) using Parallels on an iMac and Macbook Pro.

[Andrea Griffa]

I can confirm 100% that GRLevel 3 and AE both work perfectly (at least for me) using Parallels on an iMac and Macbook Pro.

Thanks a lot;) Can you tell me wich kind of version dod you buy?

[Ian Miller]

Does anyone know if GRLevelx is destined for a Linux release in the future

[rdale]

No, Windows only. However some have gotten it to work using an emulator within Linux.

[Ian Miller]

ok, thanks for that, i might give it a try..

[Josh Durkee]

Thanks a lot;) Can you tell me wich kind of version dod you buy?

I'm using Parallels 4.0 with OSX 10.5.8, and with the latest Grlevel 3 and AE updates. All works great together on my end.