Why moderator intervention?

[Scott Blair]

It really burns me when the Stormtrack forum locks a thread because it deals with real issues. If the moderators have a problem with a few vulgar posts, delete the vulgar post and keep the important discussion/issue alive. I’m not sure under what circumstance the decision is made (whether it is one or all moderators) to lock a discussion, but when numerous chasers are being affected by a Stormtrack member who is stealing images I’d say that’s quite a topic to be discussed. Guess what mods, issues at hand need to be discussed and don’t always stay in this nice, protected box. It’s pathetic that Stormtrack locks and defends potential controversial discussions when wrong-doing is brought forth in an attempt to what… protect us from being personal? Issues such as these will be personal because those affected have been hit on a personal basis. To this significance, it is not a topic that can privately be discussed when so many on this forum have been affected. Sorry but a very poor decision.

And a note to Billy Griffin… you are a thief, a liar, a fraud, and embarrassment to chase community.

Scott Blair
http://www.targetarea.net

[Jeff Miller]

In this case, I have to apply with Mr. Blair. I realize that Stormtrack is run privately, however, it is my feeling that the correct way of handling this would have been to delete the post, warn the poster, give a general warning to avoid slander in the thread, and let the conversation continue. Locking the thread of a case this important is poor moderator judgement. This is just my opinion.

[Mike Mezeul II]

Scott,
I agree...I believe this is a topic that needs to be open throughout Stormtrack. I agree it would be a smart idea to delete the vulgar posts, but keep the important ones. Too many are affected with this childish and ILLEGAL act. Especially after reading Billy's post about how these are truly "his" pictures, when we all know they are not and some of the tornado pics dont even match the true date or place, members really need to let him know what they think. The evidence is there..

...id hate to be in his shoes next chase....

[Chris Allington]

Originally posted by Mike Mezeul II
Scott,
I agree...I believe this is a topic that needs to be open throughout Stormtrack. I agree it would be a smart idea to delete the vulgar posts, but keep the important ones. Too many are affected with this childish and ILLEGAL act. Especially after reading Billy's post about how these are truly \"his\" pictures, when we all know they are not and some of the tornado pics dont even match the true date or place, members really need to let him know what they think. The evidence is there..

...id hate to be in his shoes next chase....

Especially now that we all recognize his vehicle.... This was a very blantant violation of rules of ST and even laws...

[Anthony Silver]

...id hate to be in his shoes next chase....

That aint no lie. I guarantee you some of the members affected by the incident wont be as self controlled out in the field as they have been here on the message board!

[Joey Ketcham]

I'm in total agreement with Scott, I think for the topic to be locked was in poor taste and to try and make StormTrack appear to be this perfect realm where all is ok. It's not perfect, many members of this forum have became victims of Billy, this needs to be addressed and Billy should be allowed to provide an explanation.

Delete vulgar posts, but dont' delete a thread regarding an actual issue just because you don't like it.

[Kyle Flannigan]

While I am not defending Mr. Griffin, I do agree with locking the thread. About the only thing that needs to be done now is that the affected parties to take legal action (if they choose to do so). The evidence has been posted overwhelmingly and it's pretty much a no-brainer at this point on who's in the right.

Also, the posting of phone #s/personal info is uncalled for.

[Mike Mezeul II]

i do believe that posting his personal info was a uncalled for, but delete those posts and let us discuss this in a professional manner.

[David Wolfson]

Kyle, must respond to your last post here....

What I published was taken directly from a link (which I provided). The link information is quite clearly a site maintained by the listed musicians themselves so that they may be contacted. Thus I can't accept that you should be directing your concerns at me.

[Billy Griffin]

A quick note to all: if you feel you must take legal action, so be it. I don't think this forum is the place for that. I think it's a shame for you guys posting my personal information. My wife and children thank you for that.

I HAVE CONTACTED THE NORMAN AND OU POLICE DEPT. AND I'VE ALSO CONSULTED WITH MY ATTORNEYS ON THE WEBPAGE MESSAGES, THREATS, EMAILS SENT, ETC. AND YOUR IP ADDRESSES HAVE ALL BEEN LOGGED.

This should be a closed topic and attorneys should carry this out.

I have the images in question on my hard disk from my digital camera and I had 4 other chase partners who all were there and observed me download the photos off my camera last night.

I would appreciate it, though, if you all would please stop making personal attacks and physical violence threats against me, my family, and my personal property. In addition, would you please stop posting my professional and personal information / contact information on this thread?

I will provide contact information for the law firm representing me shortly via reply to U.S. postal mail only.

[Douglas Mitchell]

Originally posted by Billy Griffin


I HAVE CONTACTED THE NORMAN AND OU POLICE DEPT. AND I'VE ALSO CONSULTED WITH MY ATTORNEYS ON THE WEBPAGE MESSAGES, THREATS, EMAILS SENT, ETC. AND YOUR IP ADDRESSES HAVE ALL BEEN LOGGED.



Deja Vu...Thank jebus for Dynamic IP address...Muhaahhahahaha

[Chris Allington]

I do not beleive anyone has posted physical threats... though i didnt really pay attention...

If you didnt want your contact information posted you shouldnt have stolen so many peoples works and then posted them as your own... as for your chase partners who saw you... did they happen to be nick grillo, dave drummond or any of the others?

This is just a shame...

[David Drummond]

I think it should be noted that the personal information that was posted is completely available at ANY TIME, by ANY ONE in the world with an internet connection by simply doing a whois lookup on your site. If you were that worried about it being seen, you should have used some more secure info to register the domain name.

Not siding one way or another of whether or not it should have been copied here, just pointing out that it is freely available that way to everyone worldwide.

[Chris Sokol]

Digital cameras show up as USB storage devices, so it is not that hard to dump images back to them. Also, if the photos were taken with a digital camera, there would be no grain in them.

Just an observation...

As it was another moderator that locked the thread, I defer to his judgement.

[mikegeukes]

I listed a couple things too, all on the internet and open to public viewing

-Domain name was a WHOIS,
-People Search for University of Oklahoma
http://search.ou.edu/
-Profile on ST, is listed at the bottom.

Bottom line is all the information is out there on the internet
for anybody to view and search for.

Mike

[Billy Griffin]

I'm fully aware my personal information is available, and I'm not concerned about that. But making personal threats, threatening physical violence and destruction of property via private messages or direct emails is uncalled for guys.

All I'll say is just contact your attorneys. Again, the proof is all still on hard disk and on the ORIGINAL SD card in the camera.

As far as grain, it depends upon using digital zoom. I won't get into a discussion on this. I was totally unaware of this posting until about an hour ago. If you guys had issues, I wish someone would have called.

All I can do now is leave it up to my legal folks who also manage the music production.

It just seems crazy on how you guys jump all over me, yet there were hundreds of chasers around and reading through the storm reports, a lot of photos look the same.

If you're still mad at me over the stupid forecast thread I replied to a week ago, this is a bad way of retaliation I'd say.

Again, just have your attorneys manage it. But making violence threats against my family and myself is truly uncalled for.

[mikedeason]

Billy,

I actually have no dog directly in this fight, but several of my close friends have had their hard work violated by your actions. PLEASE, be a man and admit what is already obvious to 99.9% of the members here. The last thing you want to do it is take on all the people you have stolen from; RAW images and even JPEG's carry information about when they were taken and the camera they were taken with, and I'm sure all these people still have their original images. You'd get laughed right out of the courtroom and you'd be sunk by any countersuits filed against you. Several of the people you stole from keep very good attornies on retainer who deal very specifically with copyright issues; this is not a battle you want to fight, especially since you've commited a potentially criminal act.

Have some dignity and do the right thing. At least you might garner an ounce of respect for being man enough to do that, though I'm sure most, if not all of us will never trust you again.

Regards,

Mike

[Chris Allington]

Originally posted by Billy Griffin
. But making personal threats, threatening physical violence and destruction of property via private messages or direct emails is uncalled for guys.

Again, just have your attorneys manage it. But making violence threats against my family and myself is truly uncalled for.

NO ONE HAS THREATENED VIOLENCE!!

[David Drummond]

I would still like an explaination of the two images I posted in that thread before it was closed comparing them to the ones you claim are your's Billy. Everyone and their brother can see that they are ABSOLUTELY identical dude.

That aside, the one of the wedge I know for an absolute fact that the only person that was ANYWHERE near me I think it was Scott Blair.

[Mike Mezeul II]

What gets me is the Paris, TX tornado picture that Darin Brunin took. If Billy is really claiming its his, than where was he on that storm, because it looks as if according to his chase logs, that he was chasing in Oklahoma. Interesting how he can chase both storms at the same time. I was standing right next to Darin as he took that picture and Billy's explorer was no where in sight. I have video to prove it.

[Douglas Mitchell]

I don't know how you can continue arguing this considering several of the photos on your page are from COMPLETELY DIFFERENT DAYS and in DIFFERENT STATES then where they actually occurred!!!!! You're so full of it, man! This is absolutely ridiculous! I can't believe you're still allowed to post! There is absolutely no way you can maintain those pictures are yours!

[Blake Michaleski]

I vowed to stay out of it but it is absolutely obvious that the photos in question are identical in every way other than the varying overall dimensions, ie, the crop job. You have ripped off quite a few friends of mine and I hope justice is served in this case of blatant copyright violation.

[Sheila_Ward]

Billy, just one question. The first 2 pics posted under March 21st. You list these as taken in Seminole OK. The first one was taken in Paris, TX on that same day. The second one is from MO (3/24 I believe). How can you claim you took these and they were taken in OK?

Just asking a calm question and giving you an opportunity to explain.

[mikegeukes]

Examine the pics closley, they are exactly identical, except for they have been resize and some have been cropped.

JUNE 12, 2005

Scott Blair: (3 PICS)
http://www.targetarea.net/pic15/jun1205tor3a.jpg
http://www.billygriffin.com/34.jpg

http://www.targetarea.net/pic15/jun1205tor3c.jpg
http://www.billygriffin.com/35.jpg

http://www.targetarea.net/pic15/jun1205tor5a.jpg
http://www.billygriffin.com/36.jpg

David Drummond Pics: (2 PICS)
http://wx5tvs.com/chasephotos/2005/2005pic...tx.tornado5.jpg (http://wx5tvs.com/chasephotos/2005/2005pics/2005pics/2005.06.12/2005.06.12.kent.co.tx.tornado5.jpg)
http://www.billygriffin.com/8.jpg

http://wx5tvs.com/chasephotos/2005/2005pic...tx.tornado2.jpg (http://wx5tvs.com/chasephotos/2005/2005pics/2005pics/2005.06.12/2005.06.12.kent.co.tx.tornado2.jpg)
http://www.billygriffin.com/24.jpg

Nick Grillo Pics: (2 PICS)
http://midwestchase.com/12-June-2005/tn_vidcap16.jpg
http://www.billygriffin.com/9.jpg

http://midwestchase.com/12-June-2005/tn_vidcap29.jpg
http://www.billygriffin.com/10.jpg

Melanie Metz Pics (4 PICS)
http://www.twistersisters.com/images/06120...5/061205_04.jpg (http://www.twistersisters.com/images/061205/061205_04.jpg)
http://www.billygriffin.com/5.jpg

http://www.twistersisters.com/images/06120...5/061205_06.jpg (http://www.twistersisters.com/images/061205/061205_06.jpg)
http://www.billygriffin.com/7.jpg

http://www.twistersisters.com/images/06120...5/061205_05.jpg (http://www.twistersisters.com/images/061205/061205_05.jpg)
http://www.billygriffin.com/15.jpg

http://www.twistersisters.com/images/06120...5/061205_01.jpg (http://www.twistersisters.com/images/061205/061205_01.jpg)
http://www.billygriffin.com/23.jpg

Mike

[Darin Brunin]

Here is my video of the tornado on March 21st. Billy that was no still image that was taken. It was a video capture from this clip that you can check out. Heck I wouldn't put it past you to try and steal this but I think MY FOOTAGE WITH YOU NOWHERE IN SIGHT will tell the whole story of my picture and you know that you weren't there so fess up because it's going to save you a lot of time and money in the long run.

http://www.kschaser.com/March21.mpg

A big thanks to Joey Ketchum for hosting this video.

[Mikey Gribble]

I want an explanation about the tornado count of 16 for Kent county :lol:

On a serious note, Billy, this is ridiculous. You are insulting everyones intelligence with your lame explanation. You are only digging a deeper hole by still claiming those pictures as your own. It is a BLATANT lie and you know it. Be a man and admit that you stole those pictures.

[Dick McGowan]

Here is a "Griffinado"

Steal this one Billy, I don't care. Oh and F your lawyers, i've got plenty.


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/DickTwister/FakeTornado.jpg

[Joey Ketcham]

LOL

[Anthony Silver]

I Love It :lol:

[Mike Mezeul II]

man! sucks i missed that tornado! that transparent tube is AWESOME! :lol:
...sorry figured this topic might need some smart @$$ comment...

Edit: btw Billy now has his 2005 Logs unlinked

[Darin Brunin]

Yeah that was a beauty. I guess we can move Billy's count for Sunday up to 17 as I am sure that will appear on his website soon. Because after all Billy has the gift of being on every tornado every chase that he is on apparently. Maybe you should lay off the lawyers and take some geography classes as you obviously have no clue what state you are in at a given time as well.

[nickgrillo]

My pic:
http://midwestchase.com/12-June-2005/tn_vidcap16.jpg

"Billy's Pic"
http://www.billygriffin.com/9.jpg

My pic:
http://midwestchase.com/12-June-2005/tn_vidcap29.jpg

"Billy's pic"
http://www.billygriffin.com/10.jpg

You have to be kidding me, dude. These pictures are identical, and by the way, lol, those are video captures, dude - those are not stills. I have the ORIGINAL video to prove it. You can BET on you WILL be getting sued for this...

I also don't understand why the other thread was locked, no personal threats were made. This kind of thing has to be put out in the open, as this issue is a frequent problem, especially to other professional photographers like Mike Hollingshead...

[Billy Griffin]

I am posting the video on my page now...

I suppose you guys will say I stole that too?

If you listen closely to the audio, you'll hear my "shutter sound" off my digital camera and also hear me complain to my son about my HP camera messing up.

Sorry you guys didn't get as close, but I was right there too down in the canyon taking those shots.

[Aaron Kennedy]

Give me a freaking break guys. I locked the thread because pretty much all that could of been said has been. We don't need a reshash of 50 posts comparing picture to picture, pixel by pixel. If you have a problem with the poster, take it up with him. As far as I am concerned, the original thread has "exposed" the individual as needed. There are plenty of pertinent posts in there. I don't see what else can come of it.

Aaron

[Blake Michaleski]

if you save an image from billy's site and the matching one from one of the victims, open the advanced properties for each and lo and behold, identical properties, except for the cropping. I found it odd that Billy supposedly has a trv33 just like Scott and took the pic at the same time.

:roll:



http://convectivetrends.net/billy_griffin_is_a_dumbass.jpg

[Chris Allington]

For those affected the photos are still up on www.billygriffin.com/wxphotos.htm

[Gayla Drummond]

Crosspost from the thread about Mike H's pics getting ripped again:

Easy way to 'watermark' your images.

Open it in your favorite image editing program.

Put your text on it.
http://dragondigitalis.com/JP4/wm01.jpg

Bevel the text.
http://dragondigitalis.com/JP4/wm02.jpg

Then fade the text to level that works best.
http://dragondigitalis.com/JP4/wm03.jpg

You then have an image that can be viewed....
http://dragondigitalis.com/JP4/wm04.jpg

and no matter how it's altered...your 'watermark' stays visible.
http://dragondigitalis.com/JP4/wm05.jpg

http://dragondigitalis.com/JP4/wm06.jpg

Easypeasy, guys. :D

Use different colors for the text as needed, and don't always use the same fade out level.

[David Wolfson]

Puhleeze, own up and retract them, BG. I don't want to see a lot of $$$ going to lawyers from good people who have much better uses for it.

TTI I suspect the wronged photographers may have trouble proving damages; and the "evidence" looks pretty damning. In that situation, the lawyers end up getting dough, and the aggrieved end up with emotional retribution.

[David Drummond]

Nice how you took the page down with all the other ones but kept my wedge on this page:

http://www.billygriffin.com/wxpage.htm

Must have been your favorite of my pics eh?

[Mike Mezeul II]

Aaron,
Not taking this out on you bud, just I think everyone here is extremely pissed at Billy. I think a lot of people had a lot more to say. Understand that you did what you did because ya had to.

[David Drummond]

Aaron, I think what really has us riled up even more than stealing the images is coming here and blantantly (STILL! :shock: ) lying about it. He might as well have just walked up and pissed in our face. :evil:

[Blake Michaleski]

Originally posted by Aaron Kennedy
I locked the thread because pretty much all that could of been said has been.

Aaron, with all due respect man, that's not a reason for locking a thread. I'm a mod on a few boards and it takes alot for us to lock a thread. Delete any post that violate the TOS and let whatever discussion continue no matter how repetative or irrelevant it may be.

People are pissed and need to vent. :wink:

[Billy Griffin]

My video clip is now up on my page. I guess I'm stealing that too?

Hey David, isn't that your white van driving away as I'm driving in to it?

Many other chasers were topping the hill to get better views while I was driving in to it. Also, let the video play... the wedge is pretty much clear in the latter part as we were parked alongside most all of you.

This is silly. I can't wait for the first reponse on how I stole the video clip and other stuff.

Sorry guys, I don't need photos - I HAVE THE VIDEO TO PROVE IT !!!

I am done responding to these allegations.

[Aaron Kennedy]

For the record, I alone locked the thread. If you got a problem with it, PM me and we can discuss. It was in no means to try to shy away from discussion, protect the indivdual, moderator conspiracy, etc. etc.

At the time it was locked, threads were flying in and were blatantly in violation of ST rules. Locking the thread was in effort to stop the forest fire from going out of control so to speak. I have no problems with discussion pertaining to proving copyright infringement etc etc, but we don't need 50 repeats posts scolding the individual. It's been done! We have 9 pages of posts in the other topic that have already crucified the person.

Keep it civil, I'm catching some zzzs now.

Aaron

[mikedeason]

Originally posted by David Drummond
Nice how you took the page down with all the other ones but kept my wedge on this page:

http://www.billygriffin.com/wxpage.htm

Must have been your favorite of my pics eh? Hope your not fond of that satellite dish because I expect to own it once we are through in court dude.

BTW David and others....

http://deasonfamily.net/billythefraud/

Screen caps of the stolen images.

Regards,

Mike

[mikedeason]

Originally posted by Billy Griffin
My video clip is now up on my page. I guess I'm stealing that too?

Hey David, isn't that your white van driving away as I'm driving in to it?

Many other chasers were topping the hill to get better views while I was driving in to it. Also, let the video play... the wedge is pretty much clear in the latter part as we were parked alongside most all of you.

This is silly. I can't wait for the first reponse on how I stole the video clip and other stuff.

Sorry guys, I don't need photos - I HAVE THE VIDEO TO PROVE IT !!!

I am done responding to these allegations.

Nice attempt at a red herring, but the issue is not whether you were chasing but whether the images you presented on your page as your own were actually yours or not. With your sudden change of the topic on the issue, are we to take this as an admission of guilt?

Regards,

Mike

[Chris Allington]

Originally posted by Billy Griffin
Hey David, isn't that your white van driving away as I'm driving in to it?

Many other chasers were topping the hill to get better views while I was driving in to it. Also, let the video play... the wedge is pretty much clear in the latter part as we were parked alongside most all of you.



Than how come your images are so similar if you are in a different position when those other chasers are on top of the hill as your driving into it?

[Darin Brunin]

Here is the image property file of the picture that Billy claims to be his. Notice he claims it to be taken from a still camera. That has me wondering why a Canon Optura 20 is a CAMCORDER. On the phone Billy explained to me that he takes his pictures with an HP camera. This is a video still. It's time to own up to what you did. If you really want to prove yourself post the same thing that I did because I can guarantee you that it will be the same as mine and who has the Canon Optura 20. Why that would be me. Billy I guess that you must have forgotten that all images have a tag embedded in them.

Billy's Picture with a supposed HP camera.
http://deasonfamily.net/billythefraud/darin.jpg

My video grab taken with the Canon Optura 20
http://deasonfamily.net/billythefraud/darin1.jpg

It's time for you to fess up Billy. This tells the absolute truth. here is the video one more time shot with the Optura 20 by ME.
http://www.kschaser.com/March21.mpg

[David Drummond]

Originally posted by Chris Allington+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Chris Allington)</div><!--QuoteBegin-Billy Griffin
Hey David, isn't that your white van driving away as I'm driving in to it?

Many other chasers were topping the hill to get better views while I was driving in to it. Also, let the video play... the wedge is pretty much clear in the latter part as we were parked alongside most all of you.



Than how come your images are so similar if you are in a different position when those other chasers are on top of the hill as your driving into it?[/b]

Not similar Chris.... IDENTICAL! minus the cropping. IDENTICAL in every detail.

[Chris Allington]

Originally posted by David Drummond
Not similar Chris.... IDENTICAL! minus the cropping. IDENTICAL in every detail.

YUP!!!

It is obvious... I dont think he'll be able to pull a Michael Jackson on this one...lol

[Scott Blair]

Aaron, you obviously missed the point of the importance of discussion. If you don’t want to observe 50 posts comparing pixels, then you don’t have to read them. However, those that would like to discuss this serious subject without vulgar comments would like to do so. Is that ok? You ask what else can be done. Well, when is Billy Griffin’s membership review going to be completed? I’m sure many of us are quite curious whether a Stormtrack member stealing other Stormtrack member photos is tolerated. I guess this will be a real interesting sign of what this forum stands for.

To note… my Albany, MO image is from video shot 5/24/04, not from a digital camera. The video has been registered with the U.S. Copyright Office in Washington D.C. filed in October 2004. Billy, you really don’t want to continue on the road you’re on.

Scott Blair
http://www.targetarea.net

[Mike Peregrine]

This has got to be the single most unbelievable issue I have EVER seen come up in Stormtrack, and that is saying a lot. I do not anger easily - and in fact usually can maintain diplomacy when everyone else is losing their heads - but I have to say that I am just LIVID about your conduct today, Billy. The responsible thing for you to do at this point is apologize, take your page down, resign from this site and move on.

I can see Aaron's fine points, and admire you for the desire to keep things in check ... but in this case I have to agree with Scott that this issue goes beyond the norm and requires group intervention. The words are strong, but the choices Billy made were in the full view of the PUBLIC, and the public has the full right to get to the bottom of this one.

Billy - I'm afraid that no matter what, you can NEVER be taken seriously here again. The responsible thing to do is leave.

[David Drummond]

§ 504. Remedies for infringement: Damages and profits

Release date: 2004-04-30

(a) In General.— Except as otherwise provided by this title, an infringer of copyright is liable for either—
(1) the copyright owner’s actual damages and any additional profits of the infringer, as provided by subsection (B); or
(2) statutory damages, as provided by subsection ©.
(B) Actual Damages and Profits.— The copyright owner is entitled to recover the actual damages suffered by him or her as a result of the infringement, and any profits of the infringer that are attributable to the infringement and are not taken into account in computing the actual damages. In establishing the infringer’s profits, the copyright owner is required to present proof only of the infringer’s gross revenue, and the infringer is required to prove his or her deductible expenses and the elements of profit attributable to factors other than the copyrighted work.
© Statutory Damages.—
(1) Except as provided by clause (2) of this subsection, the copyright owner may elect, at any time before final judgment is rendered, to recover, instead of actual damages and profits, an award of statutory damages for all infringements involved in the action, with respect to any one work, for which any one infringer is liable individually, or for which any two or more infringers are liable jointly and severally, in a sum of not less than $750 or more than $30,000 as the court considers just. For the purposes of this subsection, all the parts of a compilation or derivative work constitute one work.
(2) In a case where the copyright owner sustains the burden of proving, and the court finds, that infringement was committed willfully, the court in its discretion may increase the award of statutory damages to a sum of not more than $150,000. In a case where the infringer sustains the burden of proving, and the court finds, that such infringer was not aware and had no reason to believe that his or her acts constituted an infringement of copyright, the court in its discretion may reduce the award of statutory damages to a sum of not less than $200. The court shall remit statutory damages in any case where an infringer believed and had reasonable grounds for believing that his or her use of the copyrighted work was a fair use under section 107, if the infringer was:
(i) an employee or agent of a nonprofit educational institution, library, or archives acting within the scope of his or her employment who, or such institution, library, or archives itself, which infringed by reproducing the work in copies or phonorecords; or
(ii) a public broadcasting entity which or a person who, as a regular part of the nonprofit activities of a public broadcasting entity (as defined in subsection (g) of section 118) infringed by performing a published nondramatic literary work or by reproducing a transmission program embodying a performance of such a work.
(d) Additional Damages in Certain Cases.— In any case in which the court finds that a defendant proprietor of an establishment who claims as a defense that its activities were exempt under section 110 (5) did not have reasonable grounds to believe that its use of a copyrighted work was exempt under such section, the plaintiff shall be entitled to, in addition to any award of damages under this section, an additional award of two times the amount of the license fee that the proprietor of the establishment concerned should have paid the plaintiff for such use during the preceding period of up to 3 years.

[David Drummond]

§ 506. Criminal offenses

Release date: 2004-04-30

(a) Criminal Infringement.— Any person who infringes a copyright willfully either—
(1) for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain, or
(2) by the reproduction or distribution, including by electronic means, during any 180-day period, of 1 or more copies or phonorecords of 1 or more copyrighted works, which have a total retail value of more than $1,000,
shall be punished as provided under section 2319 of title 18, United States Code. For purposes of this subsection, evidence of reproduction or distribution of a copyrighted work, by itself, shall not be sufficient to establish willful infringement.
(B) Forfeiture and Destruction.— When any person is convicted of any violation of subsection (a), the court in its judgment of conviction shall, in addition to the penalty therein prescribed, order the forfeiture and destruction or other disposition of all infringing copies or phonorecords and all implements, devices, or equipment used in the manufacture of such infringing copies or phonorecords.
© Fraudulent Copyright Notice.— Any person who, with fraudulent intent, places on any article a notice of copyright or words of the same purport that such person knows to be false, or who, with fraudulent intent, publicly distributes or imports for public distribution any article bearing such notice or words that such person knows to be false, shall be fined not more than $2,500.
(d) Fraudulent Removal of Copyright Notice.— Any person who, with fraudulent intent, removes or alters any notice of copyright appearing on a copy of a copyrighted work shall be fined not more than $2,500.
(e) False Representation.— Any person who knowingly makes a false representation of a material fact in the application for copyright registration provided for by section 409, or in any written statement filed in connection with the application, shall be fined not more than $2,500.
(f) Rights of Attribution and Integrity.— Nothing in this section applies to infringement of the rights conferred by section 106A (a).

[nickgrillo]

ROFL, LMAO... WINDOWS MOVIE MAKER!! LOOK AT THE PROPERTIES!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v144/mitch445/nickrippedoff.gif

(thank you Doug Mitchell)

I will be contacting a lawyer about this matter by tomorrow afternoon. I am currently in Norman (and live Detroit), I planned on going back this weekend, but will likely be down here until the case is closed. You are through, dude...

[Bryan Burkholder]

I understand that the burden of proof is pretty substantial, from what I have seen, that Billy committed the infringements from the details of the pictures posted. However, I think Aaron did the right thing by closing down the thread. Continuing to threaten to sue someone over and over again may not be threatening physically or vulgar, but I know I wouldn't want to be incessantly told I was going to be sued. The threats are much more damaging financially; as David Drummond so nicely pointed out, just in case we did not have the exact US Copyright Infringement Law in our home library. And I know I can't afford $150K, I'd be homeless!

It seems that many people on here were infringed upon, and the next logical step is to take legal action, not to "vent" their anger. Only bad things can happen by continually voicing one's opinion of a person before suing them (especially if they are choice words). That's why Miranda rights are read, "anything you say can and will be held against you in a court of law." If you want to sue, sue, stop pointing out all these pictures when you already seemed to have proven the case to the board. Billy's membership is going to be under consideration of being revoked already, so not much more to do from a Stormtrack point of view (except to get the banning approved).

Just my $0.02

[David Drummond]

Originally posted by Billy Griffin
I am posting the video on my page now...

I suppose you guys will say I stole that too?

If you listen closely to the audio, you'll hear my \"shutter sound\" off my digital camera and also hear me complain to my son about my HP camera messing up.

Sorry you guys didn't get as close, but I was right there too down in the canyon taking those shots.

What is so absolutely IRONIC about your video is that it PROVES you weren't even in the same place as me when you were shooting the wedge! OMG ROFLMAO! Never mind that the pics are IDENTICAL, it's right there on your own freakin' video! HOLY COW how blantant can you get?

[Billy Griffin]

It wasn't a "wedge" at the time I was in the canyon. Did you even watch the video clip or are you just still acting out of rage?

You'll see as we turn around, my son is videotaping when we come back out of the canyon and pull up alongside the fence. My son was videotaping the wedge while I took the digital stills. The camera was giving me a "not in focus" indicator and that's when you hear me comment to him that the camera was messed up.

You guys are pathetic the way you go on and on picking at someone. I don't even sell my photos - I do this for enjoyment, not money or profit.

If you all would stop acting like high-school "clicks" and stop harassing people or especially sending these little threatening emails, perhaps this would all be a much easier place to chat.

By all means, if it makes you feel more of a man, call OU, call the Postal Training Center, call KOCO. Will that give you some sort of resolve in the fact that you can't accept someone else having photos like yours?

Admission of guilt? I have nothing to admit. You all jumped on me over the comment about the OUN forecaster a week ago, and it hasn't stopped since. Now you're "chapped" at me for having photos and documentation of a successful chase?

It's amazing that some of you would resort to sending me emails telling me you're going to "take my home" or be sure to "catch me and my family out in public and ensure I we won't be able to walk again." What kind of comments are those?

I will guarantee one thing... I will NEVER post on this forum again. It's too much of a shame and I don't want to be associated with people who make threats of physical harm to wives and children or property damage.

I'll also guarantee you that you guys who did make those threats better hope and pray that something doesn't happen to my family or my property, or I'll utilize my resources, such as the U.S. Inspector General, U.S. Postmaster General Copyright and Patent Office, along with the legal offices for Faculty/Staff of the University of Oklahoma.

As far as I am concerned, this matter is closed and you will never hear from me again. For those of you who wish to pursue this, have at it.
My family, my job, my home and property, etc. has no interest in my "hobby" chasing storms and this incident, and it should be left alone.

[Mike Peregrine]

Billy ... there is no room for any pity or empathy of any kind from me on this one. This remains a blatant and egregious breach of ethical conduct. On the other issues, I'm always willing to give someone the benefit of the doubt - not this time.

The fact remains that you stole, you lied about it and now you are even more pathetically attempting to cover it up and justify your misguided actions. I no longer get involved in flame wars online, but you have simply begged for anything that anyone can think to hurl at you on this one. You ask for more and more with every pathetic post. Your denial of these established facts is nothing short of ludicrous.

I for one will not feel one ounce of regret for any consequence you now see as a result.

[Anthony Silver]

Originally posted by Billy Griffin
It wasn't a \"wedge\" at the time I was in the canyon. Did you even watch the video clip or are you just still acting out of rage?

You'll see as we turn around, my son is videotaping when we come back out of the canyon and pull up alongside the fence. My son was videotaping the wedge while I took the digital stills. The camera was giving me a \"not in focus\" indicator and that's when you hear me comment to him that the camera was messed up.

You guys are pathetic the way you go on and on picking at someone. I don't even sell my photos - I do this for enjoyment, not money or profit.

If you all would stop acting like high-school \"clicks\" and stop harassing people or especially sending these little threatening emails, perhaps this would all be a much easier place to chat.

By all means, if it makes you feel more of a man, call OU, call the Postal Training Center, call KOCO. Will that give you some sort of resolve in the fact that you can't accept someone else having photos like yours?

Admission of guilt? I have nothing to admit. You all jumped on me over the comment about the OUN forecaster a week ago, and it hasn't stopped since. Now you're \"chapped\" at me for having photos and documentation of a successful chase?

It's amazing that some of you would resort to sending me emails telling me you're going to \"take my home\" or be sure to \"catch me and my family out in public and ensure I we won't be able to walk again.\" What kind of comments are those?

I will guarantee one thing... I will NEVER post on this forum again. It's too much of a shame and I don't want to be associated with people who make threats of physical harm to wives and children or property damage.

I'll also guarantee you that you guys who did make those threats better hope and pray that something doesn't happen to my family or my property, or I'll utilize my resources, such as the U.S. Inspector General, U.S. Postmaster General Copyright and Patent Office, along with the legal offices for Faculty/Staff of the University of Oklahoma.

As far as I am concerned, this matter is closed and you will never hear from me again. For those of you who wish to pursue this, have at it.
My family, my job, my home and property, etc. has no interest in my \"hobby\" chasing storms and this incident, and it should be left alone.

Billy, the bottom line is you stole other people's work. I dont care what your BS excuses are, in my opinion they're invalid, and bluntly put, you're a liar. There's no point in trying to cover your a** on this one dude, you've been caught, and LEGALLY you will pay if the victims decide to take this to the next level. I agree with you on one thing though, the threats against you and you're family arent cool by any means, and I think that's going way too far, but seriously dude you've ticked off a lot of members. Like I told you before, the best thing you can do is remove the stolen photos, fess up and/or apologize to the victims, then remove yourself from the forum. You've started a major s**tstorm here, and people wont be able to trust you anymore after this. SEE YA, DON"T LET THE DOOR HIT YA WHERE THE GOOD LORD SPLIT YA'!!!!

[Billy Griffin]

Well, I hope you're all happy.

Someone smashed out my windows and broke my satellite dish about an hour ago, along with stole two ham radios and a GPS.

[Mike Peregrine]

I sincerely hope the authorities are able to apprehend whoever is responsible for such a criminal act, Billy. Any criminal out there who is responsible for such behavior should live with the consequences of their actions, wouldn't you agree?

Now ... back to the justification, misrepresentation and theft that you perpetrated.

[mikegeukes]

Billy Griffin wrote:
Someone smashed out my windows and broke my satellite dish about an hour ago, along with stole two ham radios and a GPS.
Sorry to hear that happen, Billy if it did happen. Will you be posting pictures of the broken windows and a copy of the police report as proof?

Mike

[Dan Cook]

Originally posted by Billy Griffin
Well, I hope you're all happy.

Someone smashed out my windows and broke my satellite dish about an hour ago, along with stole two ham radios and a GPS.

Karma.

[Douglas Mitchell]

Originally posted by Billy Griffin
Well, I hope you're all happy.

Someone smashed out my windows and broke my satellite dish about an hour ago, along with stole two ham radios and a GPS.

I smell bull****. Considering you were awake during the alleged incident, you'd think you'd be able to HEAR someone smashing your windows not to mention the fact they'd have to get up on your car to get at your Sat dish. I don't think anyone on this forum could be DUMB enough to be as BLATANT with such a crime as you were.

[David Schuttler]

Originally posted by Billy Griffin
Well, I hope you're all happy.

Someone smashed out my windows and broke my satellite dish about an hour ago, along with stole two ham radios and a GPS.

About an hour ago? How was that time frame figured out?...

Anyway those videos tell me alot more and causes more doubht's in other areas about your stories...

Now your night time vid grabs are not listed as the 4-10-05 okc tornado but as another date...hmmm

You might have been around there .. congrat's but don't use others pictures to tell your story

[Alex Lamers]

:shock: Well now things are being blown way out of proportion. Like I said in the locked thread...people who aren't involved should drop it and people who are should do things on personal time.

It doesn't matter if you were provoked or not...a crime is still a crime. Hopefully that was nobody on this board and hopefully Billy stays safe. Innocent until proven guilty folks, no matter how bad things look.

...Alex Lamers...

[Melissa Moon]

Wow I don't check the board for a few days and poo hits the fan!

::Grabs popcorn and a coke:: (should be an interesting read)

Don't come the raw prawn with us, Billy! I'm very sorry for those of you who were victims of all this. Stealing another's original work is just rotten in my humble opinion!

[John Diel]

As stated on the other thread, I did speak with Mr. Carano, and yes he does know Billy and speaks well of him. That said, I will remain on the sidelines on this issue as I am not an "agrieved (sp?) party".

One thing I have to reiterate though, is Billy is truly "Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law". This is a foundation of our Country and I would ask that everyone abide by it. The accusations have been made and refuted, it's now up to a higher authority than ourselves.

John Diel <attempting to be a voice of reason>

[Mike Johnson]

I've seen equally bad comments and threads about other chasers, and nothing was done -- even when the comments were way out of line. The moderators need to nip this kind of garbage soon and apply the rules equally to everyone. It may be only me, but I see ST slowly going down the path that WX-Chase did years ago. It was during that period that many veteran chasers left discussion groups and their knowledge and feedback has been lost forever.

Mike

[Edward Ballou]

Originally posted by Mike Johnson
I've seen equally bad comments and threads about other chasers, and nothing was done -- even when the comments were way out of line. The moderators need to nip this kind of garbage soon and apply the rules equally to everyone. It may be only me, but I see ST slowly going down the path that WX-Chase did years ago. It was during that period that many veteran chasers left discussion groups and their knowledge and feedback has been lost forever.

Mike

I whole-heartedly agree Mike. I'm a basically still a newbie to the community and I deeply value the experience from the veterans around here. It would greatly sadden me to find out we were losing respectable members of the chasing community because of the intent to defamate others.

I understand people are feeling extremely violated right now and rightly so. But imho, it only takes one post to make your opinion known. Like riot police, there needs to be someone to come in and break up the crowd. I agree with the Aaron in locking the thread and feel that everything has been exposed in that thread, and didn't need to come over to another thread.

Let the lawyers and included parties sort it out from here. I also suggest locking this thread and even if it doesn't get locked, I refuse to post anything because I'm not involved. I strongly encourage those who are not involved to simply view and resist any impulse to respond. Just my 2 cents.

Respectfully,
Ed Ballou

[Doren Berge]

Originally posted by Edward Ballou+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Edward Ballou)</div><!--QuoteBegin-Mike Johnson
I've seen equally bad comments and threads about other chasers, and nothing was done -- even when the comments were way out of line. The moderators need to nip this kind of garbage soon and apply the rules equally to everyone. It may be only me, but I see ST slowly going down the path that WX-Chase did years ago. It was during that period that many veteran chasers left discussion groups and their knowledge and feedback has been lost forever.

Mike

I whole-heartedly agree Mike. I'm a basically still a newbie to the community and I deeply value the experience from the veterans around here. It would greatly sadden me to find out we were losing respectable members of the chasing community because of the intent to defamate others.

I understand people are feeling extremely violated right now and rightly so. But imho, it only takes one post to make your opinion known. Like riot police, there needs to be someone to come in and break up the crowd. I agree with the Aaron in locking the thread and feel that everything has been exposed in that thread, and didn't need to come over to another thread.

Let the lawyers and included parties sort it out from here. I also suggest locking this thread. Just my 2 cents.

Respectfully,
Ed Ballou[/b]

I agree. The evidence is in. And it's overwhelming. But much of the resulting behavior and comments – while understandable – are not very dignified. It seems the thread has run it's course and should probably be locked.

However, It would be interesting and useful to read about the results and consequences from actions taken. For future reference. In case any of us are violated like this one day.

I suspect that legal actions would be cost prohibitive. Simply not worth it. It costs a lot of money to bring a lawsuit. And you would have to demonstrate significant loss of revenue to recoup damages and court costs. It can cost a lot of money just to have a lawyer write a cease and desist letter. If anyone has been in touch with his host provider it would be interesting to know what the response was.

I think it's safe to say that BG has lost all respect and credibility with the chase world. Time to sell that dish and find another hobby there Billy. But the ugly "tar-and-feather" behavior is not very becoming to the rest of us.

I'm really pissed too. And I wasn't even ripped off. I know how hard it is to get "trophy shots." Especially during a season like this one. Speaking as a creative professional this kind of thing really gets my blood boiling. But at this point it seems the only relevant info would be learning about the results of actions taken.

db

[Gayla Drummond]

May I offer a possible way to resolve this?


Mr. Griffen...post your original, uncropped images. If you are able to do so, then that will prove those are just amazingly coincidental, exactly the same photos.

If you can't, as has been said, the evidence is in, and those that choose to take further steps will do so. (And please, don't resort to the "I have nothing to prove" stance....it's obvious there is something to prove.)

Then we can all get on with our regularly scheduled programming. :D

[Aaron Kennedy]

I didn't realize the 2004 chase logs worked, but everyone may want to check those out too for stolen photos.

Thanks to Jeremy for pointing out one of mine was lifted!

http://ww2.convectionconnection.com:8080/C...04/crw_9469.htm (http://ww2.convectionconnection.com:8080/CHASE-051204/crw_9469.htm)

http://www.billygriffin.com/wxphotos2004.htm


Aaron

[Tony Laubach]

Just FYI, I pulled some of Billy's "images" and the original images and did a pixel-by-pixel overlay of the uncropped portions... each of those image overlays matched up exactly. There was no differences in the pictures I checked.

[Mike Mezeul II]

man when will this end? and to think! he's got 9 more yrs of pics to go! wonder who's next to get ripped off? im pissed about this and my photographs havnt even been used (thankfully my photographs are crappy) lol :lol: anyways, Billy man, I don't know what to tell ya...your digging yourself deeper and deeper

~just curious what the status of his membership is?

[Craig Maire II]

As a fellow storm chaser/spotter I too have been captivated by the recent posts/threads that have come about due to copyright infringement etc. that Billy is SUSPECTED of committing and think that if proven 100% true in a court of law that he should lose all respect in the chase community and be banned from Storm Track that aside I seriously hope too that noone has threatened his family, property etc. with violence and that his truck/equippment was not really damaged/stolen, any of those acts would be foolish/just as bad if not worse than what he is SUSPECTED of doing. I do agree with what the moderator did by locking the other thread because the people who own/operate Storm Track may be legally responsible for any liable etc. that is posted on this site if they don't try and stop it. I would hate to see something happen to this site because of what is currently going on, there are many, many awsome people on here and I love comming in here every day to see whats happening in the "storm chase world", seeing all the cool pics from real chasers, posting my pics etc. This site has put me in contact with many excellent nowcasters, people that I consider to be friends (even if they do live 1000 miles away etc. and I never see them in person) etc. I have even made a few $$ from people who have seen my posts on this site and asked to chase with me/give hail damage reports etc. I do feel a sense of community/fellowship in here and would like this wonderful website to continue to be apart of my life for years to come. :D

Note:
I personally (my opinion) do think that Billy has committed some copyright infringement/"borrowed" other persons pics and do in the above article use the word SUSPECTED very loosely, I am definitely not defending him nor am I condoning any violence/criminal behavior that may have already or might be in the future committed against him, his family or his property. I hope that if he is found guilty in a COURT OF LAW that he is punished accordingly and that if anyone does any criminal damage to him, his property, or god forbid his family that they too are punished to the fullest extent of the law.

[nickgrillo]

LMAO, Billy! Somebody smashed out your vechile and your awake through all of that? You have to be kidding me... Because you have either lied or framed somebody.

I am in the process of finding lawyers in the OKC area, and can guarantee you haven't heard the end of this. Yeah, and by the way, I don't care how many of the "same" things are uttered towards this guy, and it doesn't matter is this thread gets 400 posts to it... I want everybody to air their comments about this. I cannot believe what is going on, man, you are a blatent liar and a thief and will be punished to the full extent of the law...

We have the proof...

[Kiel Ortega]

Originally posted by nickgrillo
LMAO, Billy! Somebody smashed out your vechile and your awake through all of that? You have to be kidding me... Because you have either lied or framed somebody.

I am in the process of finding lawyers in the OKC area, and can guarantee you haven't heard the end of this. Yeah, and by the way, I don't care how many of the \"same\" things are uttered towards this guy, and it doesn't matter is this thread gets 400 posts to it... I want everybody to air their comments about this. I cannot believe what is going on, man, you are a blatent liar and a thief and will be punished to the full extent of the law...

We have the proof...
Well, since some people don't care if people post the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over....

[nickgrillo]

Originally posted by Craig Maire II


I personally (my opinion) do think that Billy has committed some copyright infringement/\"borrowed\" other persons pics

No way would it be considered "borrowing", because not only did he use my photography without permission, but actually put HIS name on it and said it was his. Those are both TWO DIFFERERENT copyright violations!

[Anthony Petito]

Originally posted by Gayla Drummond
May I offer a possible way to resolve this?


Mr. Griffen...post your original, uncropped images. If you are able to do so, then that will prove those are just amazingly coincidental, exactly the same photos.

If you can't, as has been said, the evidence is in, and those that choose to take further steps will do so. (And please, don't resort to the \"I have nothing to prove\" stance....it's obvious there is something to prove.)

Then we can all get on with our regularly scheduled programming. :D

Looks like I'm a little late to the party here, but here are a few of my burning questions.

I agree with Gayla. The burdon of proof has now fallen solely on you, Billy. There are now 5 pages of evidence that show extreme coincidences between the photos on your website and the other members of this board. If this were a court of law, you would need to show more proof than simply saying you were there. Moreover, you would need to provide witnesses, preferably someone other than your son.

Let's start with the obvious.
1. Do you own the cameras and camcorders that are listed in the image properties?
-- If not, we can stop right there. Cameras and camcorders don't arbitrarily enter another camera information in the image properties. If that information was purposely changed, explain why?

2. Why are the dates of the events EXACTLY the same? Even down to the second. I will give you the benefit of the doubt that during a tornado, everyone is snapping as many pictures as possible, however, I find it even less of a chance that during that same time you snapped it with the same camera and that camera had ALL of the same settings as yours. This explanation would be MORE explainable if you could find someone to back up your claim that you were atleast around the same area when the photo was taken.

3. I would attempt to find credit card reciepts, gas station reciepts or SOMETHING that also proves you were somewhere near the area when the photos were taken. Atleast it provides a reasonable doubt that you COULD have taken the photo.

Without any of this, you will not get any sympothy form anyone on this board or in the court of law.

[nickgrillo]

Originally posted by Kiel Ortega
Well, since some people don't care if people post the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over....

Nope, and if it was your work being used by this little thief you would feel the same way. I don't want any threads being "locked" on this matter...

[Aaron Kennedy]

Eh... I still stand by my original lock despite finding out afterwards that one of my pictures was lifted. The original thread was getting out of control. At least now, conversation has shifted to this thread and has stayed civil. I'm not convinced that would of happened keeping the other thread open, and it saved us (the mods) the hassle of deleting plenty of "colorful" ;) posts.

Aaron

[Craig Maire II]

Nick, notice the " " around the word borrowed, I'll let that speak for its self....lol :D

[Jeff Wear]

Has anybody complained to Billy's web host yet? There's been a lot of evidence presented here against him, seems like it would be best to present that evidence to his host so they can make a decision on whether or not to keep hosting his page.

If there is anyone out there who is threatening or causing harm to Billy, his family, or his property - I suggest you cut it out, let it go, and move on. It is understandable to be upset at him for his actions but there is NO need to resort to criminal behavior.

[nickgrillo]

Originally posted by Jeff Wear
If there is anyone out there who is threatening or causing harm to Billy, his family, or his property - I suggest you cut it out, let it go, and move on. It is understandable to be upset at him for his actions but there is NO need to resort to criminal behavior.

Exactly. Not only is this totally uncalled for, but this could ALSO do damages to all of our cases, and will make US look like possible criminals as well. I know that either he is lying about the whole matter, or he bashed out the windows himself and framed us...

Where's the pics of that incident, Billy?

[Mike Mezeul II]

Originally posted by Jeff Wear
If there is anyone out there who is threatening or causing harm to Billy, his family, or his property - I suggest you cut it out, let it go, and move on. It is understandable to be upset at him for his actions but there is NO need to resort to criminal behavior.

I agree...not only is that taking this too far and probably scaring the heck out of his family, but as Nick said, it's making everyone that was truly affected by this whole deal, look as potential suspects. It'll be interesting to see if he is able to provide pictures of this "incident".

EDIT: By the way, it looks as of now Billy has removed Aaron Kennedy's picture. Could this be the start of resolving this matter?

[Jay Cazel]

This is what happends when I don't check things for a few days.....One thing I don't understand on all this. Billy seems to have spent a sum of money in chase equiment....i.e Sat, ham radios...etc...Is the guy THAT bad of a chaser to NOT got any pics or video or not very many at all? I mean stealing someones eles stuff is not cool at all. From what I can see on what eveyone has posted it does LOOK real bad for him. I mean it has been a bad year but that happens. I know most people are very upset about this...I mean we are VERY lucky people to get to see video and pictures of storms really before everyone else, for that I want to thank EVERYONE who posts videos and pictures for us to see. I just hope we can get past this.

[Glen Romine]

Well, not real interested in joining the pile on per se - but since Billy is here now, and is removing images from his web site as they are pointed out who the rightful owners are - is anyone able to claim this one?

http://www.billygriffin.com/35.jpg

If you watch the video that Billy was generous enough to provide - you can find the moment where this image occurs, and see that Billy is in the wrong location (different foreground and horizon) to have been able to take the picture. The exif information is as follows:



Make - SONY
Model - DCR-TRV33
DateTime - 2005:06:13 18:05:19
YCbCrPositioning - 2 (datum point)
ExifOffset - 110
ExifVersion - 220
DateTimeOriginal - 2005:06:13 16:39:57
DateTimeDigitized - 2005:06:13 16:39:57
ComponentsConfiguration - 1 2 3 (YCbCr)
CompressedBitsPerPixel - 2 (average)
FlashPixVersion - 100
ColorSpace - 1 (sRGB)
ExifImageWidth - 640
ExifImageHeight - 480

Also, he notes in the video that his still camera isn't working...... why he didn't just make a capture from his own video I have no clue.

By the way - if you watch the video - it is pretty clear that Billy doesn't have much business being out around storms - so I'd give that vehicle a wide berth on chase days. Best of luck to those affected by this incident.

Glen

[Nic Wilson]

Here's a moment of sanity for this thread...

I can understand everyone's frustration that has had their images unlawfully taken. Although this is no court of law, it is evident from the imbedded photo information that he has indeed taken the photos/vid caps of other chasers and claimed them as his own. His credibility as a chaser has now been infinitely tarnished, but it is obvious that he by no means has been attempting to profit off of the stolen photos/vid caps. Unfortunately, it just appears that he was trying to show off to family, friends and possibly to KOCO for whatever benefits they provide as far as being one of their Fast Unit storm trackers. If the images or anyone's video was used by him for KOCO's benefit then I can foresee some troubling legal times for Billy -- but I am pretty confident this hasn't taken place. Legal actions against Billy will mandate that the website be shutdown and everyone's images protected, but other than that I don't see how much of a monetary win can be had considering the stolen images/vid caps weren't used for any sort of personal profit on his part.

In conclusion, I don't think we'll see Billy out chasing again any time soon, but the personal threats that many are making are uncalled for. The fact that he has been called out on this is embarrassment enough, especially within the most respected forum for storm chasers across the world. Hopefully, he unlinks the rest of the other chase reports from prior years soon...other than that I can't really see what else there is to gain -- I would foresee that attourney costs would negate any financial victory in court for this matter unless other evidence is found.

[Chris Sokol]

It's Scott Blairs:

http://www.targetarea.net/pic15/jun1205tor3c.jpg

As far as the Still Camera problem...he stated that he took them with a digital Camera, and still had them saved on the camera (on a memory card). Oops....

[Robert Dewey]

This thread is so interesting.

It's quite obvious that Billy has infringed on several people's photos. Warren Faidley responded pretty quickly...

I've been told the guy is getting a spanking in a news group so I'll let that go for now.

Thanks again:

Warren


Obviously someone else must have talked to him, if he knows that Billy is getting a "spanking" in a newsgroup.

[mikedeason]

I find it very amusing that so many people come out of the woodworks and start preaching about "innocent until proven guilty" and using restraint when something like this happens. If you notice, almost without exception, these people were not violated by Billy's actions and didn't have the fruits of their labor stolen from them. Quite easy to set yourself upon a high pedestal when you're not the one being victimized.

Several of the people who had their pictures stolen are very good friends of mine. They have driven thousands of miles; spent thousands of dollars; gone 24 hours or more at a time without sleep; eaten crappy food for days on end; and stayed at two bit motels and roachholes across the Plains. They have put their lives into chasing. All this hassle just to witness supercells and tornadoes.

And then, some poser comes along and steals from them and you moral-high-ground guys expect they should be calm and judicious in the face of such overwhelming evidence of guilt on Billy's part? PLEASE! Give us a break!

Maybe some of you are jealous Billy didn't steal your images. But if he had, I'd be willing to bet that almost to a man, you'd be as hot as and be reacting the same way as many of the people he has victimized are reacting right now.

So save the preaching for the pulpit. Sure, I agree that any threats of physical violence against Billy, his family and property are off limits. But he deserves everything else he gets.

Regards,

Mike

[Robert Dewey]

Originally posted by mikedeason
I find it very amusing that so many people come out of the woodworks and start preaching about \"innocent until proven guilty\" and using restraint when something like this happens. If you notice, almost without exception, these people were not violated by Billy's actions and didn't have the fruits of their labor stolen from them. Quite easy to set yourself upon a high pedestal when you're not the one being victimized.

Several of the people who had their pictures stolen are very good friends of mine. They have driven thousands of miles; spent thousands of dollars; gone 24 hours or more at a time without sleep; eaten crappy food for days on end; and stayed at two bit motels and roachholes across the Plains. They have put their lives into chasing. All this hassle just to witness supercells and tornadoes.

And then, some poser comes along and steals from them and you moral-high-ground guys expect they should be calm and judicious in the face of such overwhelming evidence of guilt on Billy's part? PLEASE! Give us a break!

Maybe some of you are jealous Billy didn't steal your images. But if he had, I'd be willing to bet that almost to a man, you'd be as hot as and be reacting the same way as many of the people he has victimized are reacting right now.

So save the preaching for the pulpit. Sure, I agree that any threats of physical violence against Billy, his family and property are off limits. But he deserves everything else he gets.

Regards,

Mike

I agree with the majority of what you said, BUT:

you'd be as hot as and be reacting the same way as many of the people he has victimized are reacting right now.

Being "hot" doesn't always make your judgement any clearer... If anything, it skews the perception quite a bit. Strong emotions can definitely affect sanity and rational thinking. That is why it is better for an unbiased jury to make a decision, not the disgruntled victims. Since I haven't had any photos stolen (and rarely do I ever put anything online), I can be a jury... The verdict is in, and it's quite obvious that the images are stolen. I haven't really seen anyone come in here and defend Billy, nor have I seen any personal threats of violence.

[Scott Olson]

Originally posted by mikedeason
I find it very amusing that so many people come out of the woodworks and start preaching about \"innocent until proven guilty\" and using restraint when something like this happens. If you notice, almost without exception, these people were not violated by Billy's actions and didn't have the fruits of their labor stolen from them. Quite easy to set yourself upon a high pedestal when you're not the one being victimized.

Several of the people who had their pictures stolen are very good friends of mine. They have driven thousands of miles; spent thousands of dollars; gone 24 hours or more at a time without sleep; eaten crappy food for days on end; and stayed at two bit motels and roachholes across the Plains. They have put their lives into chasing. All this hassle just to witness supercells and tornadoes.

And then, some poser comes along and steals from them and you moral-high-ground guys expect they should be calm and judicious in the face of such overwhelming evidence of guilt on Billy's part? PLEASE! Give us a break!

Maybe some of you are jealous Billy didn't steal your images. But if he had, I'd be willing to bet that almost to a man, you'd be as hot as and be reacting the same way as many of the people he has victimized are reacting right now.

So save the preaching for the pulpit. Sure, I agree that any threats of physical violence against Billy, his family and property are off limits. But he deserves everything else he gets.

Regards,

Mike

Mike I don't think anyone here is jealous that Billy didn't steal there images. They are just trying to make sure that this thread doesn't get out of control.

[mikedeason]

Please don't patronize me by trying to explain the duties of a jury. This is not a legal court, but the court of chaser opinion. And in the latter court, he has definitely been proven guilty and deserves all the castigation and humiliation he gets until he finally fesses up, apologizes and agrees to remove himself entirely from this site.

Regards,

Mike

[Robert Dewey]

Originally posted by mikedeason
Please don't patronize me by trying to explain the duties of a jury. This is not a legal court, but the court of chaser opinion. And in the latter court, he has definitely been proven guilty and deserves all the castigation and humiliation he gets until he finally fesses up, apologizes and agrees to remove himself entirely from this site.

Regards,

Mike

Sorry, I was just a little confused as to who you were aiming your comments at about people coming out of the woodwork, preaching to the pulpit, etc.. It's hard to follow a discussion when people are directing a post at someone, but they beat around the bush as to who it is... Since I didn't have any photos stolen, I am going to back out of this discussion since it's pointless for me not to.

[Billy Griffin]

THERE'S NOTHING I WOULD LIKE MORE THAN TO BE REMOVED FROM THIS FORUM FOR GOOD. I HAVE NO USE, AS I'M SURE YOU ALL FEEL THE SAME, FOR BEING A MEMBER ANY LONGER.

If you will kindly remove me from this forum immediately, then I would only ask that you please stop making threats to me and my family.

I have been through enough in the past 24 hours.

How's that for a resolution? Can we please have a Moderator or Admin remove me immediately? Again, in doing so, all I ask is that you please leave me, my website, my family and my property alone. If you have additional copyright concerns, please email me.

My site makes NO profit from the chasing side of things. I do not place a monetary value on chasing. I do not sell photos, only the videos I capture. The DVDs I sell are AT COST including duplication and shipping, so no profit is made. If anyone would like to view those due to concerns of the content, you're certainly welcome to purchase one.

Kindest regards,
Billy Griffin

[nickgrillo]

You may have made no profit, but you stole other photographers images and put YOUR NAME on them, that is two violations right there. I will still be taking you to court over this, you can bet on it...

[Anthony Petito]

As was said above, even if no profit was made, you still took images (the majority of which had prominent copyrights place on the image), cropped them to fit your site and your needs, then didn't put where you got the photos from.

The way the site is layed out makes it look like YOU took the photos and videos when in fact, you did not.

I hope the moderators or admins do NOT remove you so that the evidence stays around.

[Jeff Snyder]

[Thoughts below are my personal opinions, and not necessarily moderator actions.]

How come we don't have a "beating a dead horse" emoticon?

I certainly feel that everything that can be said has already been said (we're on to what, 16 pages between the two threads?)... This thread will remain open as long as there are not a string of personal attacks, but I really feel that the horse has been beaten enough. I understand how those who's images have been lifted could be angry, but I'm assuming all anger has been expressed. I vote that we move discussion off Stormtrack, or at least keeping it in PM if necessary, given that the tar-and-feathering has been going on for a while now.


[Start moderator talk]
Any member who does personally / physically threaten Billy as he has noted will be removed immediately. Regardless of the actions some feel he has taken (I know it seems obvious, but legally, the courts decide), there is absolutely no room for a member to harm the property and health of any other member, as the reliatory actions become worse than the initial actions. Since few, if any, of us have access to his PM and email, nobody can, for certain, say that no threats have been made against Billy.

[Gayla Drummond]

Originally posted by mikedeason
I find it very amusing that so many people come out of the woodworks and start preaching about \"innocent until proven guilty\" and using restraint when something like this happens. If you notice, almost without exception, these people were not violated by Billy's actions and didn't have the fruits of their labor stolen from them. Quite easy to set yourself upon a high pedestal when you're not the one being victimized.

Sure, I agree that any threats of physical violence against Billy, his family and property are off limits. But he deserves everything else he gets.

Regards,

Mike

I wholeheartedly agree with those sentiments.

Fortunately, I think most chasers involved in this matter have alibis in the matter of the alleged 'smashed windows' incident....since there was a slew of people in the chatroom last night. :D

I also do not thing making physical threats will resolve anything...but I haven't seen anyone making those.

[Chris Sokol]

Originally posted by Jeff Snyder

Any member who does personally / physically threaten Billy as he has noted will be removed immediately. Regardless of the actions some feel he has taken (I know it seems obvious, but legally, the courts decide), there is absolutely no room for a member to harm the property and health of any other member, as the reliatory actions become worse than the initial actions. Since few, if any, of us have access to his PM and email, nobody can, for certain, say that no threats have been made against Billy.

100% AGREED ON THIS. Physical or property damage is totally uncalled for. I would also like to add this: it is not worth getting yourself into legal trouble over something that he has done...don't ruin your life.

Nobody should have to live in fear of physical harm to themselves or their family (who had nothing to do with his actions), or worry if they will still have a vehicle or home to come back to, or what condition it will be in. Handle yourselves accordingly.

[Doren Berge]

Originally posted by Billy Griffin


I have been through enough in the past 24 hours.



It's a mess of your own making bud. You brought it on yourself. A grown man should know better. If you had an ounce of class you would fess up, apologize and go away quietly. Short of that don't expect sympathy. Just go away.

There is a life lesson in this for you if you are wise enough to recognize it. I sincerely hope you do.

If Hoss Cartwright (http://bonanza1.com/hoss/) pulled this crap you can bet Ben (http://bonanza1.com/ben/) would kick his tail all over the Pnderosa until he set things right.

Good luck with the singing thing.

[Anthony Petito]

For those who are going to take this into your own hands (legally!), find someway to team up instead of going individually. This will save you all on attorney fees and will make the case that much easier to win from the attorny's standpoint. I would recommend to continue doing your research.

I guess I should mention that I am not a lawyer (IANAL)

[Chris Sokol]

Originally posted by Anthony Petito


I guess I should mention that I am not a lawyer (IANAL)

But have you ever stayed at a Holiday Inn Express?

[Anthony Petito]

Originally posted by Chris Sokol+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Chris Sokol)</div><!--QuoteBegin-Anthony Petito


I guess I should mention that I am not a lawyer (IANAL)

But have you ever stayed at a Holiday Inn Express?[/b]

Hahaha... Just what this thread needs!

[Joey Ketcham]

Originally posted by Anthony Petito
For those who are going to take this into your own hands (legally!), find someway to team up instead of going individually. This will save you all on attorney fees and will make the case that much easier to win from the attorny's standpoint. I would recommend to continue doing your research.

I guess I should mention that I am not a lawyer (IANAL)

That's a good thought, you could all team up and file a class action lawsuit against Billy... would save $$$.

[Mike Peregrine]

There is no reason to continue speaking of legal action on the board. If you're going to do it, just do it.

As for threats against this individual. So far I have seen or heard of nothing along this line, other than the fact that he says there have been threats. But then, he has said a lot of things over the last 24 hours.

I feel not one ounce of sorrow for bringing this out in the open and discussing it frankly and strongly. This is one subject that absolutely mandates such discussion. If any of it has been too strong for any of you, may I suggest easier-to-digest subject material in the everything else forum perhaps? Maybe something that won't make you feel as uneasy.

There has not been any post to my knowledge that has moved into a questionable or threatening tone on this board or any other. All of this has been forthright discussion. When one of you is affected by something like this, then ALL of you are, like it or not. And the individual behind this action needs to understand how his choices have affected people, though I am now beginning to believe that he has unfortunately progressed beyond the ability to do so.

[Chris Nuttall]

Originally posted by Chris Sokol


But have you ever stayed at a Holiday Inn Express?

I used wifi at the Holiday Inn Express in Childress on June 12, but it still didn't help me pick the southern storm. :wink: Don't know if that counts at all.

Sorry, couldn't resist. Back to the topic.

[Darren Addy]

Evidence:
While MikeDeason's screen shots are good, did anybody think of doing a SiteSuck/Mirror of the offending site/pages/images (like you would use for Offline Browsing? If not, somebody should be grabbing the Google Cached pages immediately.

Darren Addy
Kearney, NE

[Robert Dewey]

Originally posted by Darren Addy
Evidence:
While MikeDeason's screen shots are good, did anybody think of doing a SiteSuck/Mirror of the offending site/pages/images (like you would use for Offline Browsing? If not, somebody should be grabbing the Google Cached pages immediately.

Darren Addy
Kearney, NE

I think Doug M. saved the entire site to his hard disk...

[David Drummond]

Now that I have calmed down some and slept since last night and got to look over things. I am still pretty pissed about it. I think it's important to note for those of you that DIDN'T get pics stolen and are having a hard time understanding why we are so adamant about it all....

If the dude would have just come in and fessed up to it and simply pulled them down, while we probably would have been mad a bit for it, most, if not all of us would have let it pass. What really infuriated myself and I am sure the others was his (continued) willingness to come in here and STILL claim the images where is, despite the ABSOLUTE proof that they were not,

It insults the intelligence of the entire chase community and doubly so for the photographers that took the pictures.

Whether or not he was making any profit off of the images is irrelavant, even for taking a case to court. The copyright law also provides for CRIMINAL penalties and fines for such blantant and willfull image theft.

I would never have persued this if he had just fessed up and taken them down. But I will now as are others. This kind of crap is happening more and more often and unfortunately for Billy, it appears this time he is going to be made the example.

For the record, everything I had to say to Billy was done where anyone could see it except for the PM I sent him asking him to pull his guestbook down for a while to stop the nonsense going on over there where someone was trying to make THEIR case in his guestbook which had nothing to do with any of this, which he did for a while. I think the fact that those two seem to have buddied up now says volumes.

[Darren Addy]

Originally posted by rdewey
This thread is so interesting.

It's quite obvious that Billy has infringed on several people's photos. Warren Faidley responded pretty quickly...

I've been told the guy is getting a spanking in a news group so I'll let that go for now.

Thanks again:

Warren


Obviously someone else must have talked to him, if he knows that Billy is getting a "spanking" in a newsgroup.

He's taken more than copyrighted PICTURES. If you take a look at the code behind his weather page: http://www.billygriffin.com/wxpage.htm (go to your browser's VIEW menu and choose "View Source") you'll find this little html comment:


I've site-sucked everything that still lives under billygriffin.com, so if it is modified or goes away now, it really doesn't matter.

Darren Addy
Kearney, NE

[Jeff Wear]

Looking at Billy's website, it appears the photos that are the source of this dispute have been removed.....

http://www.billygriffin.com/wxphotos.htm (404 message)
http://www.billygriffin.com/wxpage.htm (wedge photo removed)

[David Drummond]

Originally posted by Jeff Wear
Looking at Billy's website, it appears the photos that are the source of this dispute have been removed.....

http://www.billygriffin.com/wxphotos.htm (404 message)
http://www.billygriffin.com/wxpage.htm (wedge photo removed)

Glad they are gone. Burning the evidence. Good thing we all got screenshots of it. Now why would he remove the images if they really were his?

[Darren Addy]

IANAL, (and I hate to give comfort to "the enemy") but any lawyer that you consult will begin with a "Cease and Desist" letter to Mr. Griffin. If he complies with that letter, then there is probably no value in proceeding with litigation unless you enjoy enriching lawyers.

That may not be terribly satisfying to those of you who were wronged, but you must remember that the big loser in a case of plaguarism is the plaguarist (in more ways than one).

Can your reputation in the storm chasing community go down in flames any brighter or more spectacularly??? I mean, can you put a big flashing red and blue light bar on your lack of ethics, self-esteem, self-respect in any bigger way than Mr. Griffin has done here??? I'm afraid that from all indications, Mr. Griffin has problems MUCH bigger than plaguarism that can't be cured by any amount of legal action. He clearly needs professional help. Imagine being the 13-year-old son of this guy (assuming THAT part isn't made up, too). Can you imagine the life's lessons that are being instilled in this kid by a father who behaves (and then justifies his actions) like this? Truly sad to remember that there are some people that are being hurt worse by this guy than those of you who had your photography and vidcaps stolen.

I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but if you step back and look at the big picture here, everyone who has had their work co-opted has been wronged (BIG TIME) but the waaaaay biggest loser in this is Mr. Griffin, and that's before any lawyers get involved.

This isn't a sad day for the Griffin household. Every day between the first day that Billy grabbed someone else's picture and put it on his web site and claimed it to be his own, up until today has been the sad ones. It just came into the light today.

Darren Addy
Kearney, NE

[Robert Dewey]

Originally posted by Darren Addy+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Darren Addy)</div><!--QuoteBegin-rdewey
This thread is so interesting.

It's quite obvious that Billy has infringed on several people's photos. Warren Faidley responded pretty quickly...

I've been told the guy is getting a spanking in a news group so I'll let that go for now.

Thanks again:

Warren


Obviously someone else must have talked to him, if he knows that Billy is getting a "spanking" in a newsgroup.

He's taken more than copyrighted PICTURES. If you take a look at the code behind his weather page: http://www.billygriffin.com/wxpage.htm (go to your browser's VIEW menu and choose "View Source") you'll find this little html comment:


I've site-sucked everything that still lives under billygriffin.com, so if it is modified or goes away now, it really doesn't matter.

Darren Addy
Kearney, NE[/b]

I showed Faidley that in the e-mail I sent to him. Seems that he's not too concerned over it though...

[Mike Johnson]

I think this guy has been dragged over the coals enough without everyone taking him to court. A big apology would be a good move for him right now. I guess the main question is why would he do something so dumb when he knows the chase community includes some relentless watch dogs (and a few cats). Ironically, if I remember right, he started a recent "attack" thread and went after other chasers - although I don't recall the specifics. What goes around comes around.

Mike

[David Drummond]

I need to say, that there is still continues slanderous and libelous stuff being posted on that guys guestbook about me and using my name and posting stuff like "your a dead man" and "I will get you!" that sort of stuff and it needs to stop.

I have absolutely NOTHING to do with any of that, although I have a pretty darn good idea who does. If anyone else here has anything to do with it, you need to grow up and go outside for a while.

I know you read this crap here you two and trying to make me out as one of FBI's Most Wanted is getting nowhere. The dude has enough problems with this image thing without you two interjecting yourselves into the situation. Get a freaking life for a change already! :roll:

[jaybarnsmith]

Again, my pictures weren't stolen so people can feel free to claim I don't know what im talking about and such but whatever. I'll keep up with what I was saying in the chatroom early this morning.

I agree with Darren that going to court is overkill and if he stops using the pictures, which he has, that there is no real need to sue for damages. Stealing stuff is wrong, but making an example out of a fellow chaser is equally wrong.

At the end of the day he seems like a good guy but he just made some very poor choices in taking the pictures and then in not coming clean. He clearly has video of the tornadoes that could easily have video captures taken from instead of stealing other peoples work. Darin mentioned that Billy didn't know how to do this, well I wish he would have asked as im sure someone would be kind enough to help him. Its not like he wasn't out there as David has seen him and has video of him chasing.

As far as the story and such that they are his pictures goes im not really sure what to make of that. I'll just note that actions speak louder than words and he has removed all of the offending images from what I can tell. For everyone thats like 'Hah, He did remove them even though he claims they are his pictures!', thats rather childish. Everyone knows without a doubt that they weren't his pictures, there is no need what so ever to through it in his face. You don't do anything except make yourself look stupid.

I'm glad David Drummond is doing the right thing even if I personally don't agree with it. But he hasn't been calling Billy names or making threats of revenge and such.

[David Drummond]

Originally posted by jaybarnsmith

I'm glad David Drummond is doing the right thing even if I personally don't agree with it. But he hasn't been calling Billy names or making threats of revenge and such.

All I want (as do others) is a public admission and an apology, and perhaps an explaination as to why he did it. Period. I could care less about suing anyone, I don't have enough time in my life for the things I WANT to do, muchless make time for that. But, I will if it has to be done.

I can forgive anyone that can own up to their mistakes and make amends and apologies for almost anything and give them another chance. But anyone that continues to lie about what they did in the face of proof I have zero tolerance for that sort of person.

God knows we all have made our share of stupid mistakes in our past. I have made plenty of them. We all deserve a chance to move on. But to get the priviledge to move on, you have to be a man/woman and stand up and admit what you did and apologize for it. If you can't do that, you deserve to get all the hell that comes your way for it.

[Craig Maire II]

JayBarnsmith wrote: At the end of the day he seems like a good guy

How does he seem like a good guy Jay?? Does stealing other peoples work and then lying about it make a person "good"?? He did not steal any of my work but that doesnt matter because it could just as easily have happened to me. This was not a "stupid mistake" made by an ignorant person, this was a calculated attempt to steal other peoples work and show it as his own, he cropped off copy right info, lied etc... If he is such a big country music "star' then he should be intelligent enough to know right from wrong and to not steal other peoples pictures/work. I have never launched any personal attacks against him and am just expressing my OPINION. :twisted: :evil:

[jaybarnsmith]

First, he has removed the images. Second, from whats been told so far he hasn't been selling anyone elses pictures or in any way making money off them. Just because someone makes a mistake in life doesn't mean they are a bad person. Also, in one of the videos he posted you can hear what I assume to be him hope that the tornado doesn't do damage.

A bad guy would be here stealing photos, and selling them for a large profit. Have you considered that he could be doing way worse things such as printing your photos and selling them on ebay? The point is people could be doing way worse things with your photographs besides reproducing them on their websites.

Hopefully he'll own up to it or this will all be resolved as some sort of prank.

[Craig Maire II]

I agree with most of what you said JayBarn Smith, but what Billy did was NOT A MISTAKE, how do you ACCIDENTALLY take a number of other chaser's pics, accidentally cropp off there copyright statements, and then lie about it???He is obviously not an evil person because of this but he did it on purpose either to impress other folks or for some other reason, it was no mistake. Cropping off copyright statements shows intent to hide the fact that its not his pics and that there someone else's. He knew what he was doing. Maybe he was temporarily insane or something I dont know...lol

[jaybarnsmith]

I didn't mean mistake as in he accidently put the wrong picture on his page. But more so a mistake that he made the wrong choice. I don't question that he did it on purpose heh.

[Mike Peregrine]

Yes - people make mistakes and it doesn't make them bad people ... but we still request that they make amends and restitution for these mistakes, don't we. People make the mistake of driving while intoxicated, killing someone in the process. This didn't necessarily make them an inherently evil person, but society still demands restitution.

In this case, no attempt at restitution, apology or the desire to make things right has even been hinted at. Instead we have excuse after excuse.

Sorry - but there is no defending this. Do not allow this topic to become sidetracked and hijacked by side points. The point is: an individual took something that did not belong to them, passed it off as their own, covered it up, lied about it and now refuses to make things right. Do not make this individual's choices everyone else's problem by telling us that we are the ones causing the issue.

[Jason Montano]

"... and the truth shall set you free." John 8:32

[Kiel Ortega]

Originally posted by Mike Peregrine
Yes - people make mistakes and it doesn't make them bad people ... but we still request that they make amends and restitution for these mistakes, don't we. People make the mistake of driving while intoxicated, killing someone in the process. This didn't necessarily make them an inherently evil person, but society still demands restitution.


Are you SERIOUS?!?! Did you just try to parallel copyright infrigement to a DUI and killing someone????? :shock: Wow.......

[mikedeason]

Originally posted by jaybarnsmith
Just because someone makes a mistake in life doesn't mean they are a bad person.

Jay,

Unfortunately, you've only got this half right. If they admit to the mistake and apologize to those they've offended, then yes, you'd be correct. Show us where this has been the case in this instance.

Regards,

Mike

[Mike Peregrine]

Kiel - please try and keep this in context. The parallel can be drawn with virtually any criminal action. Crime creates victims on all levels doesn't it ... does not matter what the crime is, it causes victimization. In that respect, the parallel is completely accurate. The post had nothing to do with degree of crime and punishment. There was not even a hint of me equating murder with copyright infringement - but you must keep the post in context.

Again, please stay focused on the sole issue of this thread. Someone has victimized others and is so far unwilling to admit it or make amends. That is it ... everything else is just a satellite issue and irrelevant.

[mikedeason]

Originally posted by Kiel Ortega+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kiel Ortega)</div><!--QuoteBegin-Mike Peregrine
Yes - people make mistakes and it doesn't make them bad people ... but we still request that they make amends and restitution for these mistakes, don't we. People make the mistake of driving while intoxicated, killing someone in the process. This didn't necessarily make them an inherently evil person, but society still demands restitution.


Are you SERIOUS?!?! Did you just try to parallel copyright infrigement to a DUI and killing someone????? :shock: Wow.......[/b]

Mike used a gross example to make his point. I don't see where he is drawing an equivalency except in the broadest, moral sense where it is very much relevant.

Regards,

Mike

[Kiel Ortega]

Originally posted by Mike Peregrine
Kiel - please try and keep this in context. The parallel can be drawn with virtually any criminal action. Crime creates victims on all levels doesn't it ... does not matter what the crime is, it causes victimization. In that respect, the parallel is completely accurate. The post had nothing to do with degree of crime and punishment. There was not even a hint of me equating murder with copyright infringement - but you must keep the post in context.

Again, please stay focused on the sole issue of this thread. Someone has victimized others and is so far unwilling to admit it or make amends. That is it ... everything else is just a satellite issue and irrelevant.

From what I can tell from the title of this thread, the topic is why did a moderator shut down another thread. Which I've seen 4 or 5 posts about that. So really, this thread doesn't belong in W&C but in the ST Site Discussion area, but since none of the discussion is on why the moderator shut down the thread, this thread should probably be locked also.

Speaking of context, why not mention embezzlement or theft when making the vicitmization parallel. Seems much more in context to the thread than a DUI.

[Mike Peregrine]

Originally posted by Kiel Ortega
Speaking of context, why not mention embezzlement or theft when making the vicitmization parallel. Seems much more in context to the thread than a DUI.

If it helps you grasp the concept of the post, please feel free to use any analogy you would like.

[Pete Johnson]

Originally posted by Kiel Ortega+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kiel Ortega)</div><!--QuoteBegin-Mike Peregrine
Yes - people make mistakes and it doesn't make them bad people ... but we still request that they make amends and restitution for these mistakes, don't we. People make the mistake of driving while intoxicated, killing someone in the process. This didn't necessarily make them an inherently evil person, but society still demands restitution.


Are you SERIOUS?!?! Did you just try to parallel copyright infrigement to a DUI and killing someone????? :shock: Wow.......[/b]

Haha, we need to form a group for this - maybe SCACI (storm chasers against copyright infringement). Maybe others will have better acronyms...

Oh and just my opinion, I think moderators can close down a thread if they see fit because, well, thats part of what they do.

[Scott Blair]

I would like to express a thank you to all those that showed support to me and others when this situation was brought forth. It was refreshing to see the storm chase community come together to fix a problem that affected many people. Secondly, it perhaps helped set a standard if a similar situation ever arises. Hopefully these discussions and feelings on this forum might deter anyone from considering such an act in the future.

It appears all my photographs used without permission have been removed off Billy Griffin’s page. Unless they reappear, I plan to no longer pursue this matter any further, yet move on and concentrate on potential chases in the northern plains. Again, thank you for your support and discussions.

Scott Blair
http://www.targetarea.net

[fplowman]

Ok.. im not really involved but what the hell..

Allow me to attempt to put on my mediator hat.

If Billy Griffin (whom i do not know nor ever met) < --- disclaimer.. lol

1. takes down the pics as he has done.
2. publicly appologizes sincerely and wholeheartedly here in this thread or a subsequent thread he makes himself.

would the injured parties be satisfied with that? Would this fix this problem?

I would say this. The few people effected im sure would like to see a resolution.

Would they be able to post here stating that they will no longer persue legal action here in hardcopy within this or a new post? Thus allowing Billy to admit his guilt, save face and appologize without repercussion legally?

I would ask:

1. each chaser who feels they were infringed upon to state:

I will hereby discontinue any lawsuit previously engaged and or any lawsuit brought forward in the future related to the matter at hand (copyright infringement) with Billy Griffin.

This of course is contingent upon Billy Griffin making a formal appology here within this thread or within a new thread he starts within this forum and in addition no longer using the copywritten material either now or in the future without the owners permission.

Otherwise guys im sure his attornies will ask him to not make any statements whatsoever. Billy cannot apopologize thus accepting guilt to a crime. If he was given this out though i think it would allow the chasing community as well as Billy Griffin to move forward and on with life.

Is this possible??

Any thoughts or suggestions? Mike P I hear your an attorney.. Maybe you could word my disclaimer better as I am not.

Thought i would try to do a good thing..

Fred

[Mike Peregrine]

No Fred ... not an attorney here, nor do I ever claim to be in false emails. ah hem ... just a paralegal for about 12 years.

:)

And yes, I think an apology would do wonders for making this thing go bye bye.

Scott Blair - you are a true chaser and a good role model for others.

[David Drummond]

Yeah, would that be the fake attorney the most of us got the email from that would be advising him?

I won't put what you stated, but that is all I have been asking for....an admission, and apology, and perhaps and explaination of why?

[Darin Brunin]

I can not speak for the other persons involved in this matter but here is my position as of right now.

I think that me issuing a statement saying that I will not take legal action against Billy would be incredibly stupid on my part right now. For all I know he could put the pictures back up 30 seconds after I posted that. At this time last night if he would have posted an apology I could have forgiven. It has gone way too far now and there is a good chance that I will take legal action against Billy Griffin.

Following up what Mike Deason said earlier. On the chase in question I spent 24 hours straight on the road, spent over $100, and put a lot of time and effort to get the photo in question. When someone tries to take my hard work and call it their own even after they have been proven wrong it really hits me down low that someone could do this. There is no way even if Billy was to issue an apology that I would be able to forget this and fortunately Billy is going to get everything that he deserves and the judicial system will take care of that.

I ask anyone who may of made physical threats towards Billy, his family, or his personal property to stop. This only makes the people who are the true victims look like they are the perpetrators in this whole ordeal. It is absurd that someone who isn't even involved in this situation would make personal threats and possibly get lawsuits thrown against them. Please stop because it isn't doing anyone any good except for Billy.

As Nick pointed out earlier. Billy taking the photos off of his website only further proves that he is guilty. This is a situation too serious for only a slap on the wrist and I encourage all other parties involved in this matter to not agree to anything along the lines of what Fred proposed. Fred no offense to you because I know that you are just trying to help out the situation. Maybe in the future Billy will come to realize that he made a mistake and I would be willing to forgive but right now agreeing to any kind of commitment would only hurt me and all of the other photographers involved and for that reason I will not agree to anything along the lines of what was proposed.

Darin

[Fabian Guerra]

Billy,

What a mess you have created for yourself. I hope you have learned some kind of lesson from this. It's painfully obvious that you stole the pictures...I know it, you know it, we all know it. You should really just admit that you did it and that it was a stupid thing to do. We have all done dumb things in our life but hopefully most of us can learn from our mistakes and resolve not to repeat our bad behavior. For Christs sake just fess up already and be honest! How hard would that be? If not to appease the people you "stole" or "borrowed" from then at least do it for YOURSELF. You only get one shot at this life and the path of lies can only lead to sadness, frustration, and people resenting you. Not to mention lawsuits.

About these so called "threats" on you and your family and the supposed theft of your gear, I sincerely hope no one here would ever do that kind of thing as that would be far worse than your act of stealing a few pictures and calling them your own. That being said, I honestly believe you are outright lying or grossly exaggerating these claims. I see it as a poor attempt to create a smokescreen that would make yourself out to be the victim. It is a common technique used by people who are guilty of something and want to divert attention from the truth.

Again, I hope you learn something from this and realize that you brought this upon yourself.

[fplowman]

David, Darin and gang.. Billy wont appologize if he is admiting guilt. He cant. Think about it. The only way you can get an appology and admonishment of the situation is to say hey.. i will drop everything if the guy appologizes.. there needs to be give on both ways. otherwise youll spend 10k to get 10k if that makes sense and it will never be resolved...

I tried.. the rest is up to you guys.

My 2c

Fred

[Darin Brunin]

Fred,

From what I have learned about Billy in the last couple of days I bet that if I agreed to something like that he still wouldn't make an apology. In my opinion the things that have happened are still too fresh on people's minds and it would be best to let things settle down first before doing anything of that nature.

Darin

[David Drummond]

Originally posted by fplowman
David, Darin and gang.. Billy wont appologize if he is admiting guilt. He cant. Think about it. The only way you can get an appology and admonishment of the situation is to say hey.. i will drop everything if the guy appologizes.. there needs to be give on both ways. otherwise youll spend 10k to get 10k if that makes sense and it will never be resolved...

I tried.. the rest is up to you guys.

My 2c

Fred

It's not about the money Fred. It's the principle of the thing. If they guy can stand up and take his oats then he deserves whatever he has coming. Anyone would be stupid to forgo any legal position they have to get an apology. He's just going to have to take that chance that if he will stand up and be a man about it that those of us who were stolen from won't pursue it further.

I already stated I don't want to, but if he can't stand up and admit, apologize and move on, then it's a matter or principle, and if we can't stand up for principle then what is the point of anything really?

To have so blantantly stolen the images right under all of our collective noses, and then turn around and thumb his nose at us when caught sets a precedence not seen before in the chase community. If we don't take a stand here and now as a community, well then expect this sort of crap to happen more and more and more.

IMO this is a critical point for the community, especially the Storm Track community since it played out here. To not take a definitive stand on this now is to condone it. Any of you willing to condone this sort of thing in the future?

[Scott Olson]

I just can't believe this guy is for real. That he would invest in all that equipment and do some actual storm chasing just to illustrate it with other peoples photos. It almost seems as if he enjoys the controversy and infurating people. It would be nice if he totally came clean and gave a sincerely apology but I don't expect this. I do want to say however that I stand in solidarity with all of you who have had your pictures stolen from you. I know how much work and passion goes into getting those pictures and what Billy has done is just terrible.

-Scott.

[Melissa Moon]

Billy, we all know you did it...people aren't stupid, and it's beyond obvious. Why not just issue an apology to those people directly involved? I'm sure they will forgive you; I think what is making people more mad at this point is that you're denying that you did it and you won't say you're sorry for it. Just be a man, suck it up, and apologize.

Alright, that's all I have to contribute to this thread since I'm not directly involved.

[Alex Lamers]

Originally posted by Pete Johnson
Haha, we need to form a group for this - maybe SCACI (storm chasers against copyright infringement). Maybe others will have better acronyms...

SCAT...storm chasers against thieves? :wink:

Well I am not getting involved anymore, I'll let y'all sort it out on your own. Just wanted to inject my idea for an acronym.

...Alex Lamers...

[George Flickinger]

Wow...take a day off from reading Storm Track and I missed all the excitement.

I had previously viewed his 3/21 tornado picture near Seminole, ( which is the one he likely stole from Paris) and thought he had the date wrong and or wrong location. Those of us who chased the Seminole/Okemah area tornadoes that day will tell you the visibilty was awful, and tornadoes were unphotogenic.

The tornado picture ( though stolen) may be real, but the perfectly flat terrain doesn't even match that of areas east of OKC!

[Doren Berge]

Actually, Fred is quite right. Now that y'all have brought lawyers into this Billy CAN'T apologize. Even if he wanted to. An apology would make him liable.

The goofy thing is that given the cost of law suits, I'm confident that no one here would actually follow through with more than a "cease and desist" letter penned by a pit bull anyway. Regardless of all the chest pounding and righteous indignation. And now that the pics have been taken down it would only be a waste of your $$$ anyway. There are no substantial damages incurred. Other than having several talented youngsters and oldsters feeling violated (and rightfully so) any lawsuit would be a monetary joke. The plaintiff would pay the bill. (Nick? are you reading?)

Guilt means nothing. Prove your damages.

Billy may be a a pr!ck. But he did not cause anyone substantial, or even incidental, monetary damages. Any lawyer worth a *****. wouldn't waste their time other than to write a letter (and charge you $200 per hour to run his/her spell check.) Unless you already have one on retainer or on staff it would be a complete waste of time and $$$. I doubt any of you have one on retainer or on staff. (I'm about to marry one)

Billy is an A-hole. He got called out and humiliated. GOOD!!! But now he cant' even fess up and apologize because y'all have brought lawyers into it and an apology would make him culpable. He's doing the smart thing. Keeping quiet.

If any of you kids are serious about suing, I hope you have a good paper route. It will cost you way more in time, money and effort than it would EVER be worth. You could spend a fortune and never be satisfied.

I hate to break it to y'all. But it's 2005. 72 DPI images of tornadoes and low res video frames on an amature web page have no value other than bragging rights (you can't use them on TV) . They are priceless to us because we work so hard to get them. But to the rest of the world they are basically worthless. A guy plucking lobsters out of the Atlantic ocean has more value to the average American than a torno photo on a web page. They are less than a dime a dozen. And worth less every year.

Don't believe me? Show me your P&L for the last year. Then get over yourself.

BG is a loser. We all know it now. Shut him down. Tune him out. Get over it and get on with your lives. And If you follow through with a suit let us know how it turns out.

Groove,

db

[Alex Lamers]

Originally posted by Doren Berge
I hate to break it to y'all. But it's 2005. 72 DPI images of tornadoes and low res video frames on an amature web page have no value other than bragging rights (you can't use them on TV) . They are priceless to us because we work so hard to get them. But to the rest of the world they are basically worthless. A guy plucking lobsters out of the Atlantic ocean has more value to the average American than a torno photo on a web page. They are less than a dime a dozen. And worth less every year.

Well put! Hopefully one of these times the point will get across.

...Alex Lamers...

[Jeff Snyder]

MODERATOR:


3. CONDUCT. Stormtrack is not a venue for \"free speech\". Hostile, abusive, and offensive conduct is prohibited. Ridicule and intimidation of another user constitutes a serious breach of our community standards, and will often result in suspension or expulsion. When debating, be civil at all times and attack the point, not the person. Ad-hominem arguments will invariably result in a warning or suspension.

http://www.stormtrack.org/forum/faq.php#0

Regardless of your personal opinions towards other members, personal attacks will not be tolerated. I can't see this thread going any further, since everything that can be said probably has already been said.


Please let this down. Any and all legal matters are to remove off the Stormtrack board.[/quote]

[Tim Vasquez]

I've been off the board, and seeing 11 pages here looks like we have a real hot potato. I haven't read any of this yet but a lot of it has been paraphrased in our admin forum.

HOWEVER -- Billy Griffin requested that his account be de-activated, which I've done. He will not be available to defend himself.

Jeff has made it quite clear -- any legal discussion must be taken to E-mail or to another venue. The catch-22 is we hate censoring messages, but in any legal dispute (or flame war) myself and the moderators are invariably pressured to censor and thus legally become a party to the dispute. This is where the buck stops.

This thread is now locked unless the moderators recommend re-opening it. Feel free to continue this in E-mail or via our PM facilities.

Tim