Chasing Dennis

[Mike Mezeul II]

Hey everyone,
I was just curious who will be going after Dennis when it makes landfall? Darin Brunin and I are hoping to make the drive down to intercept this thing, but unfortunatily neither of us know too much about hurricane intercepting. We are trying to maybe find someone who's intercepted a few hurricanes before to meet up with.

[MClarkson]

Ill be going after this one only if it is looks to be large and it looks like it will come ashore durring the day. Im in boston at the moment... that meens a flight to say atlanta or maybe houston.... and still a long drive after that.

bring lots of extra gas... you can never have too much gas.

My biggest concern last year was not getting arrested. The mobile AL cops especially were real dicks.

[Mikey Gribble]

I think I might end up heading down there. I will know for sure tomorrow. This is going to be my first hurricane so I don't know much about intercepting them. I have been worried about dealing with the cops down there. I would be a little more than pissed off if I drove all the way down there only to be escorted out by the police.

[MClarkson]

I think we chose a poor initial position for ivan though... We were right next to this sign thats like 'sheriffs station, next right'.

wont be doing that again. Ive been going over ways to avoid police interference like what occured durring ivan. The more weather related stuff thats sticking out the top of your vehicle or painted on the sides will probably help to convince them to leave you alone, if they happen to find you. Your best bet is to not be seen, I think. Also positions that contain few commercial buildings would meen cops are less concerned about you being a potential looter. And if its daytime thats a big plus too i bet.

[Doug_Kiesling]

Originally posted by Michael Gribble
I would be a little more than pissed off if I drove all the way down there only to be escorted out by the
police.

From the initial contacts I have made since I'm hired out for this, if Dennis hits the same area as Ivan, your SOL if your going to try to get near
the area.

From what I have been hearing, with the amount of destruction from Ivan, here is the scoop. If you don't live there, part of the government
search and rescue, law enforcement, A Government Research such as the DOWS and or your a real verifiable employed member of the media with real documentation that can be verified to back it up saying your suppose to be there for work to cover the story, you will be hauled off to a government locked down shelter.

If you have not already been through a major hurricane and your not going with someone that is experienced, your chances of getting hurt or
killed are high. If you do go and you do need help, your own your own.

There is NO 911 in the middle of a hurricane.

All you can do if your able to get a signal out when your in trouble is record your last words on tape like several people did in 2004.

For those of you thinking about making bogus press passes, if your caught, you will be arrested. Last year during Hurricane Jeanne, another
chaser from Nebraska whose first name is Chris, was in the same area as us during the eye of the storm. When the cops asked him who he
was and what he was doing there, he gave them a B.S. story. When they asked me a few minutes later, I thought they were talking about
Chris Colura from the weathervine group who was standing right next to me, and the cops said no, the other guy over there. When I told the
cops that the other Chris was some storm chaser from Nebraska down here just to be in the storm, they cuffed him for lying and for being out
during the curfew.

This is NOT A SUPER CELL CHASE. This is Moore OK 1999 but the whole state of OK for the size of the mess. If you don't know what your doing and not going with a group of people that have been through several hurricanes before, stay home because this is more dangerous then anything you can imagine since the area that its going to hit already
took a beating bad.

So if you want to go through a hurricane, I have no problem if anyone wants to go through it as long as they have an escape route and get a life vest and with someone that can show you the ropes. But the odds are, if the police catch you out during a curfew which sounds like it will be in place during the day and you don't have a reason for being out there, your going bye bye for your own safety. If the worst hits Florida again, yeah, your going to have a ton of cops all over the place.

Also, last year after all the hurricanes, the snakes are out in force and pissed off. Water Moccasin's were also out in force as were the gators.
After Ivan, in Gulf Shores, the EMS was going around shooting the gators that were on the streets and peoples yards. Why were they out of
the water? Fuel spills!

[MClarkson]

I thought this was the land of the free???

now we have cops telling us what weather we can or cannot witness?

[Doug_Kiesling]

Originally posted by MClarkson
I thought this was the land of the free???

now we have cops telling us what weather we can or cannot witness?

I just got off the phone with the hotel in Pensacola to double check their height above sea level and the said that there is already talk about a
curfew.

Also just to double check things, I did call the Pensacola City Police Department (yes at 5:30 AM) and was told its probably going to be
county or several counties wide if their is a curfew.

If there is a curfew and your caught outside in the storm with no real reason for being out there your going to have two options, back to the
motel/hotel or off to a holding cell.

So if you think I'm trying to be a jerk, I'm not, I'm just warning everyone that once you step into the hurricane chase arena, toss the rules of storm chasing in Tornado Alley out the window because its totally different. This is not storm chasing, this is bunkering down in the middle of a massive natural disaster.

[MClarkson]

"If there is a curfew and your caught outside in the storm with no real reason for being out there your going to have two options, back to the
motel/hotel or off to a holding cell. "

ya, that is exactly what they told us durring ivan.

We didnt go back to any hotel though... we went to another positition that we had scouted that morning, a steel frame school. Ivan took that jog to the east just before landfall so we would have needed that reposition anyway, but the fact that it was forced upon us by police when we knew alot more about the situation than they did pissed me off.

[Doug_Kiesling]

Well, from the sounds of what I was told by the police and the hotel just this morning, there not going to be playing this time.

I guess all I can say if your not with EMS, NWS, Research like the DOWS or the media with press credentials, chase Dennis at your own
risk.

But if your going to be out in the hurricane just to be there and you get a cop having a bad day and your breaking curfew, oh well.

[MClarkson]

stay out of sight as much as possible, thats my advice to whoever chases this storm(if its worth chasing).

Or you could try to blend in. Your going to have to stay mobile because hurricanes wobble, so you probably wont be able to pinpoint a hotel to stay at durring the landfalling... but if you could drive to a hotels parking lot and pretend you are staying there... then you probably wont get screwed with by the local cops.

[Amos Magliocco]

I agree with Doug. If you don't know that part of the country and have never chased a hurricane before, you don't have any business driving down there hoping for the best. I would never consider a hurricane intercept without chaining myself to my Weathervine pals who've been doing this for ten years--it really isn't anything like chasing supercells. There are an entirely different set of problems and priorities to deal with, and even though I've talked about hurricanes with Jeff, Chris, and Jason for many years, I've only learned enough to know that I don't know anything. Find someone who has done it before, then go. Ought to be a blast.

[Dave Lewison]

I've only chased one hurricane (Frances last year), but I think we experienced just about everything that could go wrong on a hurricane chase, short of being arrested. My best advice...think of everything that you could reasonably need while you're there...and then double it.

Gas...bring it...lots of it. One thing we weren't expecting in Frances was the 300-mile gas shortage up and down the FL coast. Food...without gas, we were forced to stay in shady motels without any power or nearby food. We were very fortunate to have some MRE's (Meals, Ready-to-Eat) that we got from a sporting supply place. We also had canned food and some sterno to heat it with. Even so, we still ran out towards day #3. Portable electricity...even if you don't have a generator, go buy a spare car battery. You can connect your inverter, cell phone, or whatever up to it to charge without worry of draining your car's battery.

We're planning to chase another hurricane this year, but it won't be Dennis...we're not prepared yet. Whatever you do, don't attempt going after one of these things if you're not prepared to live like you're out in the wilderness for a few days. The storm itself is but one of the potential problems you may run into...

[Mikey Gribble]

Alright guys, I am all about safety, but give me a break. Do you think that anyone on here who has chased tornadic supercells isn't aware of the possible dangers involved with a hurricane? I know it is completely different. It is high winds that last a long time. There is flooding and there is debris. Amos, to say that someone has no business driving down there "hoping for the best" is an attempt to degrade someones planned chase into some sort of a thrill seeking "throw you bags in the car and let's go" boner trip. How did your weathervine pals do it the first time? Is this some sort of fraternity that passes from generation to generation? I have put a lot of thought into what to expect and how to be prepared. I appreciate any advice anyone has, even yours Amos, but I really don't think that chasing a hurricane is something that should not be done without an experienced chaser. Some of us (me included) don't have the luxury of having buddies who have chased hurricanes before. That just isn't an option for me. I am extremely worried about the police throwing me out, but I am working on possible solutions to that problem. I don't think it is neccessary to put "there is no 911" in bold. Anyone who is going to drive half way across the country to chase a hurricane has probably thought ahead that far. I think you guys are underestimating the preparedness of some of the people who are considering chasing Dennis. I appreciate the advice, but I am not going to follow that particular piece. If I don't chase Dennis, then I am going to chase a hurricane later this season and I have no intentions of becoming a cautionary tale.

[cedwards]

Hurricane chasing is no where near the same as tornado chasing. It is much more difficult. I have been on quite a few hurricane chases. Dealing with the local law enforcement is probably one of the biggest problem with chasing. I don’t blame them. They are doing their job in protecting the public. If they did not enforce curfews, there would be a lot of people (mostly locals) putting themselves in very dangerous situations. It is a good idea to make friends with the local law enforcement. Let them know what you are doing, pass on any information about the storm to them, let them know you know what you are doing, but not in a way to degrade them. Always respect them.

In Isabel, I was hanging out at a park near the water for the night. Another car with chasers pulled in the same place. Late that night, the sheriff and several cop cars pulled in doing a sweep of the area. The other chasers were run out of the county. I talked it over with the sheriff and he let me go to the local police station. He said he couldn’t let me stay out, but he had food and beds available, and at 7am I would be free to go out. I took him up on his offer. The hurricane wasn’t going to make landfall until morning anyway. I got a nice free place to sleep, had access to TV and other information. I slept in the holding cell. They had evacuated all prisoners and only staff was there. We all had a slumber party.

The next day, I was out and about filming and ran across one of the cops who swept through the area the night before, He came at me yelling. He had recognized me from the night before. He said “Didn’t we tell you to leave the county?” I informed him that the sheriff let me stay. He called to check my story and then let me go.

I am not doing much hurricane chasing anymore. I will be in the area most likely right after the event to work with FEMA.

[David Drummond]

Of course, the more people with video camera's that can be kept out, the less competition there will be for video sales for some people too eh? :roll:

[Amos Magliocco]

Michael,

Since you address me directly, I'll answer you directly. I think the choice to chase a hurricane when you have no experience doing so, don't know the area, are traveling alone, and have nobody with you who has done it before or even experienced a hurricane before, is exceptionally irresponsible. You're likely to wind up in trouble and cause additional danger to emergency services personnel or others. Sorry that isn't what you want to hear.

The Weathervine team were born and raised in South Florida and hurricanes are indigenous. They lived through many before they chased--including Andrew--and I think you'll find the same biography for most of the hurricane chasers we can all name. I would be surprised if any of them disagrees with what I wrote.

As for not knowing hurricane chasers, perhaps you can wait until you meet some. I didn't know Jeff Gammons the day I was born.

Maybe I represent the more cautious end of the spectrum. If so, I'm comfortable with that. But I have lived in South Florida, lived through a small hurricane, and I have known cane chasers long enough to know that it is more complicated than it appears.

That said, I wish you and anybody else who goes the best of luck and safe travels.

[Blake Michaleski]

100% agree with Amos and doug. This is not the storm for your first hurricane chase. start small with tropical storms and work your way up so to speak.

My plan right now is to jsut wait and see. If its heads towards pensacola I'll probably just not even bother.

[Dan Robinson]

I was fortunate the first two hurricane chases I embarked on that nothing happened due to the things I wasn't expecting. The third one I was more than prepared for after experiencing the first two.

The food and gas shortages are more trouble than one would expect them to be. They are serious problems that put you in great risk of getting stranded in a danger zone with no food or water for days. During Isabel, we brought some snacks and a couple of Gatorades. If we hadn't made it out of the damage zone 16 hours later, dehydrated and starving, we'd have had to resort to finding a shelter to get basic survival neccessities. I ran into chasers during Frances who had run out of food the first day, with no stores open for hundreds of miles. I was also lucky that I didn't get any debris-caused flat tires during my hurricane intercepts, another thing that can strand you quickly.

There are a lot of things that can go wrong apart from the storm itself. That said, it IS fun, but be prepared for a lot more hardships than a typical Plains chase. And never go alone, even if you are experienced! This is like caving or mountain climbing. Teaming up for each other's safety is essential.

[Blake Michaleski]

Absolutely, no such thing as bringing too much food and too much water.

[David Drummond]

In some ways, could you not prepare for something like this (aside from the huge amount of water issue) much like you would for an extreme wilderness camping trip? In other words, take MORE than you think you would need of EVERYTHING with you and not expect to get any resources from the area at all? Go in being prepared to be TOTALLY self reliant.

[Mikey Gribble]

Amos said...
"Since you address me directly, I'll answer you directly. I think the choice to chase a hurricane when you have no experience doing so, don't know the area, are traveling alone, and have nobody with you who has done it before or even experienced a hurricane before, is exceptionally irresponsible. You're likely to wind up in trouble and cause additional danger to emergency services personnel or others. Sorry that isn't what you want to hear."

First of all, there is no way that I am going to put myself in a situation where I would require emergency services. I found your comment stating otherwise to be borderline ridiculous. If I did ever get myself into a tough spot, I would not resort to requesting assistance from emergancy services when I put myself in the situation. I am fully prepared to take care of myself.
Like I said before Amos, is this some sort of fraternity that passes from generation to generation? Maybe what I am planning on doing is irresponsible. Maybe it isn't. It certainly isn't "exceptionally irresponsible" and I don't think you are any position to accurately make that call since the only thing you are going off of is the fact that I haven't chased a hurricane before. Especially when you yourself have never chased a hurricane.
"Don't know the area"? What does that have to do with anything? I plan on showing up plently early to scout the area before the hurricane hits. You have to be there early anyways. Experienced hurricane chasers have to go to places they are unfamiliar with virtually every time, so I don't get what not knowing the area has to do with anything.
As far as growing up some place as a prerequisite for knowing about the weather phenomenon that affect the region, I don't buy that either. I know a lot of people who have grown up in tornado alley and have tried to tell me that tornadoes won't cross rivers and hills.

Amos said...
" I have known cane chasers long enough to know that it is more complicated than it appears"

I have no illusions of this being a simple endeavor. I don't pretend to act like I fully understand what I am getting myself into nor do I take it lightly. I do believe that I am fully prepared to make it through a strong hurricane unharmed. I respect your opinion, but I think you are out of your element on this one.

[MClarkson]

I think with a little common sense you can chase any cane.

For my first hurricane chase last year, I brought 30 extra gallons of gas, food and water for 2 people for probably 10 days, one of those car battery rechargers, fix-a-flat, car chargers for all your electronics, backup cameras, cellphones, batteries lights, etc. For Ivan and Jeanne I upped the gas and basically left everything else alone. we had probably had an unrefueled range of 1300 miles. Thats like a drive from new york to miami.

Just stay away from dangerous things... large trees, power lines, and cops. For a major hurricane youll want to choose something really solid as a position.

oh ya get rainex...

[cedwards]

Yes, you have brought up a good point. Bring LOTS of food and water. My last hurricane, I brought a cooler full of fruits, watter bottles, ice and sandwiches. I was stranded for a day due to trees down over all the roads, and slept in a shelter, but didn't take anything from the locals. When I was finally able to get out, I gave the remaining food and water to some locals.

[Doug_Kiesling]

Originally posted by David Drummond
Of course, the more people with video camera's that can be kept out, the less competition there will be for video sales for some people too eh? :roll:


Well it's obvious that you did not read the first line of the first post so let me reprint it in BOLD and Red.

"From the initial contacts I have made since I'm hired out for this, if Dennis hits the same area as Ivan, your SOL if your going to try to get near the area. "

If chasers show up to the same area, it does not matter if since I'm "Hired Out To Cover The News". But I don't need chasers showing up without a clue then asking me for help because this is a natural disaster area in the making.

As for other chasers, I probably will be chasing with one other chaser directly who is the stringer for TWC out of Lubbock TX and with The Weathervine crew.

[David Drummond]

Originally posted by Doug_Kiesling+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Doug_Kiesling)</div><!--QuoteBegin-David Drummond
Of course, the more people with video camera's that can be kept out, the less competition there will be for video sales for some people too eh? :roll:


Well it's obvious that you did not read the first line of the first post so let me reprint it in BOLD and Red.

\"From the initial contacts I have made since I'm hired out for this, if Dennis hits the same area as Ivan, your SOL if your going to try to get near the area. \"

If chasers show up to the same area, it does not matter if since I'm "Hired Out To Cover The News". But I don't need chasers showing up without a clue then asking me for help because this is a natural disaster area in the making.

As for other chasers, I probably will be chasing with one other chaser directly who is the stringer for TWC out of Lubbock TX and with The Weathervine crew.[/b]

I read, and still do, read it perfectly. Seeing as how I didn't direct my comment at anyone specific, yet you chose to take it directed at you, what I said must have struck close to home.

Judging by the several emails and PMs I got supporting the comment I made, obviously I am not the only one with that thought crossing their mind either.

All that aside, I am not going to fight on here with you. But please, I don't think any of these guys wanting to go chasing are going to rush out seeking Doug Keisling if and/or when they get in trouble out there.

I don't think we need to remind everyone that the first people that went hurricane or storm chasing, people we now look up to with a great deal of respect, went out and did it on their own. They didn't know what they were doing, they didn't know exactly what to expect, but they did it anyway, and they learned from their mistakes as they went. They didn't have anyone to show them the ropes or to tell them how it should or shouldn't be done. Yet, that is how we say it should be done today, all the while holding the utmost respect for those that originally did it just the opposite.

I think the one's that are seriously considering going for their first time have some ideas what to expect, and are doing their best to think it through, thus asking questions. Maybe some experienced hurricane "sitters" can give some ADVISE on how to best make the trek, rather than how you shouldn't try it unless you go with "us".

Have to admit, wouldn't it suck if some first timer got down there and got the shots of the day that were plastered all over the news and beat out the "old timers"?

BTW, wasn't last year your very first time to chase a major hurricane Doug?

[Amos Magliocco]

Michael,

I hope we can agree to disagree. I stand by what I said, and I'll say that I have more respect for your approach than those who assume discussion related to safety is designed to prevent them from "scooping" other chasers. LOL. That's chasing in 2005 I guess.

In all sincerity, I wish you the best and hope you have a blast.

Amos

[Glen Romine]

While I don't know if this is Michael's perspective or not, I can understand not liking being told 'you aren't experienced enough' to go hurricane chasing as it is akin to someone saying that you aren't experienced enough to chase severe storms either, and folks here would be jumping all over that argument calling out 'elitist' and what not. Yeah - these are very different types of events, but I don't think it is very respective of others to simply try and scare them away from giving it a try. Much better imo to offer suggestions from experience, etc..., such as what materials and how much to pack, and maybe suggesting that you can try to make contact with the local law enforcement in the area you plan to document from beforehand and see if you and work out a deal. Maybe if you went you'll be roadblocked out, especially if you show up late, or maybe you'll be arrested for curfew violation, or maybe you won't have any problems at all and can shoot right from a hotel parking lot. If Doug is right about the roadblocks, worst case scenario is someone who drives down there will be blocked from getting in, and will have to turn around drive back home. If, however, they do get in, better for them to be as prepared as possible, and the spirit of this site is trying to help each other out in being more successful. Those with experience aren't obligated to embrace newcomers to hurricane chasing, but I don't agree with trying to scare them away either. Share with them the hazards, difficulties, etc..., and let others decide for themselves if it is worth the trip.

Glen

[Doug_Kiesling]

Originally posted by David Drummond

BTW, wasn't last year your very first time to chase a major hurricane Doug?

Yes it was and I was the green horn chaser for Charley but I was with five very experienced hurricane chasers and my first storm was a Cat 4 Hurricane that almost killed us and did kill a lot of people.

And for Frances, I once again partnered up with the crew and we almost died again.

Hurricane Ivan, we took the weaker side of the storm because that was just too dangerious

Jeanne, hit the same place as Frances and we had another dangerious chase.

The point is, if your going to chase and your not sure what your going into and doing it alone, good luck.

[Amos Magliocco]

I agree with Glen that sharing information is the best possible approach. I think the spirit he's suggesting is the right one.

I didn't intend for my comments to be disrespective of anybody. At the same time I don't apologize for an idea that, ten years ago and for the twenty years before that, was absolutely standard for all chasing: go with someone experienced. I know how difficult and/or impossible it is to find chasers willing to help, but that doesn't make it bad advice. It just means breaking into chasing is hard. Just because membeship and posting to Stormtrack.org comes so easily doesn't make chasing less hard. I think there's a false impression given by this website at times and whenever somebody suggests that things are not quite what they look like on the internet, it's very unpopular. From the PMs piling up in my Inbox, I can see that I have hit as unpopular a note as ever.

I'm getting to be too much of a dinosaur for this website, there is no doubt. LOL.

[Steve Miller TX]

I thought I'd weigh in my $0.02 worth.

In reading through all of the posts, my impression is that the parties getting the barbs for being elitist or trying to scare away other chasers were being more helpful than it might seem to some. The truth of the matter is that if this is your first hurricane chase, you are inexperienced...which does NOT (or should not anyway) mean that you are incapable or not allowed into a secret fraternity of cane chasers. :-)

All I saw was some enthusiastic advice that was over-stressing the safety factor. In that respect, I see no harm in doing so. It IS dangerous as hell...no doubt about it. I've seen the Charley video and I too know the weathervine guys. I feel MUCH safer around a tornadic supercell!! LOL!! Having shards of sheet metal and other debris assaulting you for hours trying to decapatate or impale you isn't my idea of fun....especially if you could be trapped in an area with no water, electricity, air-conditioning, etc. for days. If some folks go above and beyond in stessing this and repeating or even seemingly harp about it, then that's perfectly ok in my book considering the alternative. Don't take it personally and if you do, I'd advise consideration of a private off-list discussion.

I like to flirt with disaster for a few hours, but then go eat at Hooters, a hot shower (or cold shower if you've had too much fun at Hooters), and then doze off watching the Weather Channel knowing I'll enjoy a hearty breakfast the next morning and drive off to the next few hours of fun. Rinse & repeat. :-)

So, I'll probably sit hurricane chasing out myself...just not my cup of tea personally. But, I think once in my life I'd like to experience a force of nature that great.....as long as Hooters is within driving distance and they still have power. LOL!!

[Chris Sokol]

Originally posted by Michael Gribble+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Michael Gribble)</div>

First of all, there is no way that I am going to put myself in a situation where I would require emergency services. I found your comment stating otherwise to be borderline ridiculous[/b]

By simply putting yourself into a situation that you are unfamiliar with, in an area that you are unfamiliar with, you are doing exactly this.

<!--QuoteBegin-Michael Gribble

\"Don't know the area\"? What does that have to do with anything?

Everything.

Originally posted by Michael Gribble

I do believe that I am fully prepared to make it through a strong hurricane unharmed. I respect your opinion, but I think you are out of your element on this one.

I think Amos is right on target with this one.

I (as many others have) started out intercepting smaller tropical systems. I would have never considered chasing a major cane as my first, second, or even third attempt. There are WAY too many variables. An area that appears to be safe could actually be a high water channel during a storm surge. Wind speed and direction can be affected by numerous variables. As with anything, experienc is the most important element of hurricane chasing. Just like racing...you don't start out in a Nextel Cup series car, you start out in a factory stock car on a dirt track.

Nobody is saying that you have no business chasing hurricanes...what they are saying is that you shouldn't start out with a major cane. You start with small events and work your way up to the big ones. As for Dennis, the point of landfall will determine if I choose to intercept this storm or not. If Dennis makes landfall in an area that I am familiar with, I will definately be there. If not, I will most likely sit this one out. I only wish that I had 1/10 of the experience and knowledge that the Weathervine crew has. They are probably the most knowledgable and experienced hurricane intercept group that exists, outside of the Air Force Hurricane Hunters.

Even experienced chasers occasionally find themselves in trouble. To sit here and say that you will not put yourself into a situation that would require you to need emergency services is totally unrealistic, especially given that fact that you have never done this before. A hurricane is not something that you can drive 1/2 mile either direction and get into a safer position.

Hey...it's your choice. You can either choose to listen to the advice of your peers, or you can go John Wayne. But unlike the movies, in real life the cowboy does not always ride off into the sunset.

[Darin Brunin]

Sorry to interupt guys but.....

This thread was originally started by Mike M. and I to see if there would be anyone interested in showing us the ropes of hurricane chasing so we don't put ourselves in danger. And there has not been one reply that answers the question asked. Can we please return back to the original topic please. Maybe there should be a hurricane intercept safety thread started but this was not the original intent that Mike and I had when he started this thread last night. So with all due respect can this please stop.

Darin

[Alex Lamers]

Originally posted by Darin Brunin
showing us the ropes of hurricane chasing so we don't put ourselves in danger.

I'd hate to get too technical but I think even if you have the most knowledgeable person on hurricane safety along with you...putting yourself at the mercy of eyewall winds would still be putting yourself in danger.

That being said, it should be your own choice as to whether or not you want to take that risk. However I personally think that it is extremely dangerous and cannot see why you would want to take that risk unless you were doing it for research purposes to gather data (I didn't take time to read the whole thread so I dont know).

When you're chasing tornadoes, you can at least grasp the scope of what is out ahead of you and therefore you can be aware of what's going on and be able to escape if you feel danger. But if you're in a Cat 3-5 eyewall winds looking at houses and buildings discintigrating out in front of you and hurtling by at mind boggling velocities...where are you going to go?

Thats my reason for never having the desire to chase a hurricane ;). Good luck to you if you go, and I hope you return safe :)

...Alex Lamers...

[Darin Brunin]

Yeah Alex I worded that a little wrong. I know that anyone who intercepts a hurricane is going to be in danger. What I meant is stuff like Chris pointed out in his post like intercepting in a high water channel. Sorry about the misunderstanding.

[Mikey Gribble]

Chris said...
"By simply putting yourself into a situation that you are unfamiliar with, in an area that you are unfamiliar with, you are doing exactly this."

Why don't you tell me exactly how I am putting myself into a situation that is going to require emergency services by chasing a hurricane in an area I am not familiar with. That makes absolutely no sense to me. Is it not safe to chase a hurricane unless you live where it is going to hit? What is "knowing the area" going to do for me that a topographical map and scouting the area are not going do for me? I really think you are riding a dead horse on this "knowing the area" thing. 99% of the chasers that will be on Dennis won't know the area until 48-72 hours before it hits.
Do you guys think that those of us that are planning on chasing a hurricane haven't put any thought into this? I know I need to anticipate storm surge. Topographical maps solve that problem. I know there is no power. That is why I have batteries and a generator. I know what the winds in a hurricane are like. I have been in winds >100mph. My point is that the people that are considering chasing hurricanes are well aware of what's involved and are doing there best to prepare for it.

Chris said...
"To sit here and say that you will not put yourself into a situation that would require you to need emergency services is totally unrealistic"

There are any number of things that you can do to help prevent a crisis when chasing a hurricane. I think a lot of these preventitive measures carry over from chasing supercells, such as recognizing before hand what structures are likely to turn into debris, anticipating wind direction, finding several safe spots, etc. People who end up needing emergency services, more than likely, were doing something that they shouldn't have been doing. I take chasing a hurricane very seriously and I don't want to die. Avoiding the embarrasment associated with being rescued by emergency services is also pretty high on my list. Of course there are things that can happen that are out of your control, but the odds of these things happening can be mitigated to a great degree by being prepared and making smart decisions while out there. I don't see this as being unrealistic. I think it is unrealistic for you to expect me to make 3 or 4 trips down to the Gulf to experience 40kt winds before I am approved to go after a hurricane. I have been in the ***** more than once on tornadic supercells and I think I have kept my cool and made good decisions. I believe that counts for something.
We all have are own ideas of what is neccesary to stay safe. I may be wrong. You may be wrong. I don't think it is anyones place to try and shove their standards on someone else though. I really do appreciate all the advice I can get, even if that advice is "don't do it". I just wish the advice people were giving was more constructive rather than repeatedly telling me what they think I don't know. I got a PM from someone earlier about this topic and he pointed about a very good point. A large number of the experienced chasers that we all look up to started chasing with no experience. That is the way I am going into this and hopefully a few years from now I can post on here that I am planning on chasing a hurricane without getting bombarded with comments about why I'm not qualified because by then I will have experience.

Sorry to hijack your thread Darin. I didn't want to get into this kind of a discussion. I kind of got pulled into it.

[Mike Johnston]

Well, I've never "chased" a hurricane per se, but having lived in Virginia and Charleston, SC, and spent many August vacations on the Outer Banks of NC, I have been around and through a few, including Isabel still packing a pretty good punch. Yes, the environment is completely different due to the scale. I guess the way I would approach it is to start with the question "what is your objective?" I mean, do you want to stay within camera shot of the surf, watching the squalls and waves come in as long as possible in daylight hours? Barrier island beaches will likely be evacuated and blocked to traffic, but you'll probably be able to hang out a little longer around mainland beaches -- some of the funky little eating and drinking establishments along the beach like to stay open as long as the law allows -- kind of a badge of honor for their proprietors. You want to intercept the eye? Probably would want to hunker down at least a few miles inland from your forecast "target" and hope to get lucky, but it would be darn hard to get out in a car at that point and drive to it.

As far as what to take - take plenty of cash. Last year w/ Gaston, I recall stores trying to remain open even in absence of electricity, but could not process your debit/credit card. I don't know, the best thing is probably to actually stay w/ someone who has a substantial house close enough to the shore to be fun but still have a safe retreat. Of course, w/ a Cat 4 or 5 all bets are off and survival quickly becomes the priority.

[Alex Lamers]

Originally posted by Darin Brunin
Yeah Alex I worded that a little wrong. I know that anyone who intercepts a hurricane is going to be in danger. What I meant is stuff like Chris pointed out in his post like intercepting in a high water channel. Sorry about the misunderstanding.

Cool ;) got a little too technical there :)

All I have to say is that when you get in 130-150 mph winds (like I am anticipating from this storm) its a whole different ballgame than looking at tornadoes unless of course you've actually been sucked up before. Tornadoes and hurricanes are two different phenomina (and yes I do know that they can coincide :P )

...Alex Lamers...

[Chris Sokol]

One of the things that has worked well for me in the past is to talk to some of the locals...they know which areas flood during different types of precip events. IMO, water is the greatest danger that you face during a hurricane intercept, followed by wind/airborn projectiles. I learned the hard way about water channels...fortunately, I was on high ground, but I was cut off on 3 sides.

Pick a spot early, and then pick two alternate spots. Then locate at least 2 fallback locations per position, and map out the route to avoid low water crossings. Look closely at the type and location of structures around you, and how the wind will both effect and be effected by them...winds coming off of a structure or channeled by structures can locally enhance the windfield, and can also cause projectiles to come at you from directions that you would not expect.

Communication...VERY important. Cell phone coverage becomes sporatic to non-existant. CB Radio (usually worthless, but sometimes you can get somebody), ham radio...anything to keep in touch. Monitor the local public safety frequencies on a scanner, including utility, street dept, and even odd-ball frequencies like school bus, taxi, and even rail.

Finially, ALWAYS have an emergency plan. Take a medical kit, extra water and food, and at least two 5 gallon gas cans. Also, let your family know all of the locations that you have selected, and your general location. Last, but not least...have an ID card attached to your clothes, with address and phone, relatives contact info, and any medical information (conditions, allergies, blood type, etc) that you can provide.

[nickgrillo]

I am strongly intrested in chasing a hurricane this year... I would really love to expierence the power of one. I probably won't be able to go after this one, but I am thinking about chasing one this year...

[Robert Dewey]

I am strongly intrested in chasing a hurricane this year... I would really love to expierence the power of one. I probably won't be able to go after this one, but I am thinking about chasing one this year...

I'm a wind freak, so of course chasing a hurricane at some point in my life is a definite must. Don't ask me why, I just love intense wind. One of my favorite aspects is the deep roar which some winds produce, and I have heard that hurricanes are well known for such a "roar".

[David Wolfson]

I was very young when Carol hit eastern Massachusetts, but the memories are still vivid. It was an honest-to-goodness Cat 2 south of Boston. The pounding roar of the wind rising in waves, spinning a tornado-like whirpool of debris between our house and the one across the street. Watching the top fifty feet or so of the tall maple tree beside my friends house two doors down snap off, lift like a giant umbrella and blow clean away. And, most amazing of all -- the eye. My parents led me outside into the bright, hot sun, with gentle breezes stirring the debris for about ten minutes while the eye passed right over. One of the experiences that turned me into a minor league weather nut.

Well... on the topic. Fallen power lines are a big hazard, and the horizontally driven deluge gets into absolutely every crack and fissure.

[Mickey Ptak]

Good luck Michael G and keep safe. You have far bigger **lls than I do...

I think there will come a point in my chase carrier that I will start chasing tropical systems. Unlike Michael however, I will not do it alone and I will settle for nothing less than the best to learn from. If I never get a chance to learn from the best I will be copasetic with chasing supercells 500 miles from Oklahoma :roll:.

I have no advice to give pertaining to cane chasing so I am just adding to the never ending WAY off topic thread.

Again good luck MG and be safe.

Mick

[Craig Maire II]

I am very, very interested in possibly "chasing"/ intercepting hurricane Dennis and its associated tornados later this weekend early next week, IF I can get the money together. This would be my first hurricane; staying miles away from shore (avoiding the storm surge), avoiding areas prone to flooding etc. and finding a "sturdy" (concrete and steal reinforced building with upper floors) SHOULD keep me safe, IF I infact am able to go. Avoiding areas prone to flooding and storm surge is the most important thing a person can do during a hurricane, esp. since most people are killed by drowning. I too am a "wind freak".... :D

[Michael Forrester]

If this is going to be your first hurricane chase, take the good advice others have written. More gas, cash, water and food than you can imagine needing. Extra batteries, an extra spare tire, something to cover a car window that has been blown out. Plan on no power or water and all the conveniences they provide (ATM, gas, pizza, lodging).

My first hurricane was Dennis in 1999 in Wrightsville Beach. I'm a contract live shot photog for The Weather Channel and that was with Cantore. I've covered nearly every landfalling tropical system since, and last year was certainly the worst I've experienced. It was very difficult to find lodging - on top of all the other obstacles. I expect this year to be worse.

We all must be prepared to ask for emergency assistance - bad things happen whether you're driving down the interstate on a sunny day or standing in some windbreak from a landfalling hurricane.

I've met chasers from all over the country that stop by the satellite truck and say hello - many on their first chase. I doubt any perished in the storms. Most serious chasers seem to be highly aware of their surroundings.

While police have a job to do, you likely can find somewhere in the area to experience the storm - talk to locals (if you can find any) and stay a bit inland on higher ground. If you go, plan on arriving in a ghost town - residents have learned their lesson - they board up and leave. Businesses will already be closed.

Looking back, I would have to say that starting with a smaller storm would probably be a good idea. That said, all of us started chasing storms at some point, and if you've decided this is yours, be safe.

[Dan Robinson]

If Dennis is a Cat 5 or high-end Cat 4, I wouldn't choose this one for a chase, especially a first one. If you do choose to go, don't stay anywhere but in a massive, well-built concrete parking garage. Anything else will virtually guarantee damaging or totalling your car and significant risk to yourself as well. Even then there will be flying debris coming through the structure. Park your car somewhere shielded from wind and debris, like behind a concrete wall inside the structure. And make sure you're not downwind from something close with a lot of windows or other material that would pummel you if it became airborne. Make sure there is a place for you to go in the structure to hunker down.

Stay away from the coast. Concrete buildings might handle the winds but not high surge with large waves.

I can't imagine what a Category 5 or strong Cat 4 would be like. I'd love to find out, but the risks are too great.

If you go, just make sure you can find a strong shelter in time, and resist the temptation to reposition at the last minute if the eye wobbles away from your target. You might not be able to find another shelter before it's too late.

[MClarkson]

you should scout out a number of positions, perhaps every ~20 miles so that if you need to reposition because of a wobble you know exactly where you are going.

That got us in the eye of ivan.

Other possible positions are medical centers, schools, post offices, large hotels as these tend to made of steel and concrete as well.

[Aric Cylkowski]

The problems with chasing Dennis will be threefold, as already indicated by previous posts. Sorry to be Captain Obvious on some of this, but I think it needs to be said again:

1. Mandatory Evacuations are going to be a given on this one. With Cat 4 winds forecasted, law enforcement is going to be incredibly anal about anyone trying to remain or people coming to chase.

2. Existing damage is going to be a pain in the arse for anyone trying to chase the area. Damage to bridges, terrain, etc. are going to be a serious obsticle.

3. The absolute intensity of this storm is going to be another problem. Sure, some people may not mind that this could be a very powerful system on landfall, but newcomers may be a bit... overwhelmed.

Overall, if I were a hurricane chaser, I'd sit this one out. Its one of those safety vs. chasing scenarios where I'd gladly settle for watching CNN and having continuous access to GRLevel3.

Just my two cents.

[StephenLevine]

I really appreciate this gutsy thread.
I originally had a romantic notion about chasing hurricanes. Never intended to be at the beach, but as close as 20 -30 miles away.
Felt really bummed out a couple years ago when a planned weekend chase from my home had to be aborted due to a radical shift in hurricane direction, thereby placing it out of reasonable timely reach.
After this, I began to feel into the difference between tornado/supercell chasing and hurricane chasing and intuited that chasing 'canes is a whole different ball game. My romantic enthusiasm began to wane, and now reading this information from those who have actually been within the screaming winds and their effects on hundreds of miles of real estate, my doubt has been reinforced.
One of my fantasies is to be in the eye of a hurricane and have it small enough such that I could see the "stadium effect" and actually see the cyclonic rotation of clouds across the horizons.
From what I read here, it seems that chasing anything higher than a force 1 hurricane (or one that has disintegrated to such) could be really putting ones self in deep danger from the entire spectrum of both natural and human environment. In other words, immersal in 100% pure hostility..
I could only imagine the seemingly boundless panic that could result from getting caught in a situation that has gone completely out of control and having zero exit strategy, or an exit strategy outwitted by unexpected curveballs between the storm and it's interaction with the land and it's structures.

[Karen Politte]

This has been an interesting thread - disgareements considered. Hi Stephen - it's good to see you on here! 8)

Dennis' evolution - as per discussions on TA right now - has been pretty remarkable - even given the fact that hurricanes bore me to tears. So strong - so early in July.

I am torn between the points of view that hurricane chasing is either A) Incredibly dangerous and foolhardy, or B) Simply boring.

I know that many won't understand how I can feel that experiencing such a storm could in any way be boring - but I have my reasons. Having assessed my d-isgust (I have to do that or else it turns into a non-existant smiley) at having to sit in crappy core from supercells and Plains' storms during springtime - I think it's a fair bet that my mind won't be too terribly shifted from this view when it comes to hurricanes. I supposed I could try and retain some kind of cosmic relation to where I am in the atmosphere and the forces that have come together to cause this organisation of thunderstorms over my location - but that's beginning to sound like too much work, IMO. If it takes *that* much to enjoy myself - I guess I have no business chasing these things.

So I wonder what the concensus is? Is it *really* that dangerous? Or is it something that any person with slightly-larger-than-average helpings of common sense can accomplish in relative safety? I don't think *any* of us will be wading out into the ocean to meet Dennis.

Other questions -

If you have chased a hurricane before - what type of building do you look for? I mean asides from the regular descriptions of reinforced steel - how are hotels? What is a suitable building to "settle" for???

Is being in a hurricane not incredibly claustrophobic???

Interesting thread,

KR

[cedwards]

One of my fantasies is to be in the eye of a hurricane and have it small enough such that I could see the "stadium effect" and actually see the cyclonic rotation of clouds across the horizons.

Many hurricane chasers (even ones who have chase over 20 years) have never seen this. The eye fills in rapidly when making landfall. In order to see the stadium effect, you need to be right on the coast and hopefully in a fast moving stor, so you can see it before it fills in.

Other than that, ride in a hurricane hunter plane.

[Mike Johnson]

I have always wondered if a Cat. 5 with a 20 foot storm surge would destroy large hotels near the beach? I have never been able to find anyone who could answer this question. I always notice reporters from
TWC, for example, in these large hotels near the coast. Anyone know from an engineering standpoint?

Mike

[Cstok]

Here's a safer way to see the "Stadium Effect".

http://home.att.net/~typhoon1/thumb2.html

[Mike Johnson]

Does anyone know of another website to obtain NHC discussions, graphics etc? A mirror site perhaps?

I've noticed their site is overloaded of late and it's almost impossible to get data from them.

Thanks.

Mike

[cedwards]

try http://www.atwc.org/
They have several alternate sites.
It seems that the ohio-state site has the fastest updates available.

[MClarkson]

Ivan, with a max of 12-13 feet of storm surge... crushed some steel reinforced structures on the beach. It also tore up the interstate bridge over escambia bay. This was a bridge 40 feet above water(the way in which it failed shows waves were cresting on the road surface), probably one of the strongest structures I could imagine existing in the civilian world. Ivan tore it to pieces. So im sure cat 5 surge could bring down any sized hotel by pounding its foundation with 20 foot surge and huge battering waves on top of that.

[StephenLevine]

Thanks, CStok for that awesome stadium effect link! Pure beauty and majesty!

[Jeff Wear]

Barring an unforseen jog to the right that takes it into the west coast of Florida, I'm strongly considering going after this one. I'll be making a go/no go decision sometime tomorrow. I'd be willing to exchange cell phone numbers with anyone else who plans on being in the area....PM if interested.

[Tom Mitchell]

I posted my first posts on a previous thread on this topic. So I will cut and paste it here again.

Hi all,

Long time reader (well, maybe not that long, only about 1 and 1/2 years), first time poster.

I have been a little disturbed by the growing interest in Hurricane Chasing that has been evident since lasts years storms. I live in Okinawa, Japan, and every year 6 typhoons on come close enough to warrant high wind warnings (wind speed of over 25 m/s or about 50 mph), and usually one makes a direct hit on the island with winds over 100 mph. Needless to say, people here are used to typhoons.

My first typhoon was a truly awesome experience. I am from Michigan and have seen funnel clouds, hail, and some awesome derechos, but nothing prepares you for the intensity of a tropical storm. For me, just the continous roar of the wind is enough trigger that "weather euphoria" that most people interested in severe weather seem to share.

The first strong typhoon I experienced was even more amazing. It was also almost my last. I was outside by "accident" as the eye passed, and I caught the full force of the eyewall (about 120 mph gusts) with only a North Face Gore tex jacket to protect me. I scrambled for cover, crawling to the lee of a building, as the wind was flapping my jacket strongly enough to leave bruises and making it difficult to breathe. When I reached cover I felt I was safe and would only have to wait out the strongest winds before I could trek back home. As that thought crossed my mind, a piece of debris knocked me out. I came to only 5 minutes later but with quite the headache.

My point here is that your should think very carefully about venturing into a hurricane's path. NO ONE CHASES HURRICANES!!! THEY CHASE YOU!!!
I know many people will try anyway and have unforgettable experiences. I hope you too have a wonderful and safe event. But please think very carefully before you decide to go after that cat 4 monster. Nothing can prepare you for it. And there are no escape routes, no EMTs or ambulances, no second chances if you make an error. It is very easy to wait just a little bit too long, to go just a little bit too far, and experience a horrible life-altering (or life-ending) event. I am not exaggerating in order to scare you or to be condescending, but rather speaking from experience. It is all too easy to get caught up in the awesome energy of the moment and make a regrettable decision.

I also worry about people chasing hurricanes because of the relative ease with which you can get to one. Unlike a successfully chasing a tornado, which is a combination of experience, knowledge, and luck, getting to a hurricane only requires a car with gas, time, and a hurricane. If as many people suddenly started after hurricanes as there are chasing after tornadoes, I think we could finally have our weather related first chaser deaths.

If you want to let that hurricane chase you, please do. It will be a great experience. But please follow my and other poster's advice earlier in this thread and go after a weaker storm, especially if you have never experienced a tropical storm. They are truly awe-inspiring events, but also events that require a great deal of respect.

All that being said, this is my first year with high speed internet, so I am trying to figure out ways to stream high quality live video so I can share Okinawa's typhoons with all of you this year. I hope to keep people posted about Okianwa's typhoons as long as there are people interested. Not quite as exciting as a successful tornado chase, but hopefully I can add some vicarious typhoons to all of your lives later this year.

Be Careful out There!

Part two. A reply to "How did you get caught by accident?"

I was studying at Ryukyu University and living in the dorms in Okinawa at the time (and I have since come back to Okinawa after some time in the states). There is no "chasing" per se in Okinawa. The Typhoons keep coming of their own accord.

The typhoon in question had about 100 mph sustained winds and a HUGE eye. The Joint Typhoon Warning Center calls it a "60 nm eye feature." http://www.npmoc.navy.mil/jtwc/atcr/2002at...ap1_page29.html (http://www.npmoc.navy.mil/jtwc/atcr/2002atcr/ch1/chap1_page29.html)
The eye passed over at about midnight and of course I had to wander around for a while. The "eye feature" was over head for about 4 hours. I wandered over to a friends apartment, figuring that when the wind started to pick up I could run home before the winds got too strong. It took about 25 minutes to enter the eye, so I figured it would take that long to exit it as well. I was wrong, and got onlyhalfway home before being flattened by a strong gust. I really didn't mind at first, as it was exciting, but then realized the gravity of the situation. You have absolutely zero control during a strong typhoon or hurricane.

It was still an awesome experience, but then only reason that it wasn't more serious is because I was in Okinawa. I say this because things here are built for strong typhoons. For example, during that typhoon, we didn't lose electricity. Afterwards, while looking around, I noticed there were NO downed trees in my area. Lots of leaves, but no branches bigger than a quarter of an inch. No roofing materials, signs, or other really dangerous debris. Whatever nailed me I never found. Great for homeowners and idiots like me wandering around in typhoons, but it makes for boring video.

The local governments reported only minimal damage of less than $100,000, most of which was a internet company where somebody forgot to shut the windows and all their servers were soaked (oops!). Contrast that to the damages at Kadena Airbase: "Reports indicated that Kadena airbase suffered total damages of 2.7 million dollars for base facilities and $942,000 for military family housing." The contrast in building styles and attitudes couldn't be more different.

Here, people take typhoons rather nonchalantly. The shopping malls are usually crowded until the winds reach about 30 m/s (They report wind speed in meters per second...just double the number to get a rough estimate of MPH or multiply by 2.24 to be more accurate). There is no talk of "outer rain bands" or "embedded cells". I am looking for any indication that people have noticed tornadoes in typhoons at all. People just shut their windows, get out the candles and the UNO game, and wait. Ask most people wheter they like typhoons and they will say no. Ask why and they will say "because they are boring."! :shock:



I personally think that a chaser will die in hurricane before one does chasing a tornado. Only my opinion. I am not trying to be condescending. I think anybody who has read this thread now knows intellectually the dangers of facing a strong hurricane. My concern is somebody who has made a large investment in time and money to get the hurricane zone, expecting a cat 2 strom, and getting a cat 4 and thinking, "well...I am here anyway..."

Again, be careful and make cautious decisions. And good luck!

Have a great weekend,
Tom

[Craig Maire II]

Won't be able to "chase" Dennis, wasn't able to raise the necessary funds, but atleast I can drink a couple "cold ones" and watch it on TWC! :D

[Mike Johnson]

You might not be missing much, unless Dennis gets his act together soon,
I don't think it will be much of a hurricane. This is good for the folks up north. The last IR loop looks less impressive than earlier this morning
with a broken eyewall. Having said that -- I would not rule out anything after last year. Be safe!

Thanks to the moderators for allowing a thread here, as a lot of us don't
have permission on the forecasting thread.

Mike

[SteveCarter]

I'm not going down there. The tornado factor is keeping me where I am. I live in South Carolina, and already, there are severe weather reports starting. During Cindy, we even had a tornado just 20 miles from here. The way this storm is spreading out bands, THIS area might be one of the best places to be. From here, (Clemson) - Gainesville, Fl - Birmingham, AL - Memphis, Tn - and back to Louisville, Ky. That covers a LARGE area, but I REALLY expect to see tornadic cells scattered all through this area for the next three days or so. In our area, we seem to get more tornadoes from tropical systems than any other event. Mostly F-0 - F-2. Still, some amazing pictures with the cloud movements, and the usually bluer than blue skies.