Rebuild New Orleans

[Chris Hayes]

Should New Orleans be rebuilt where it currently stands or moved to safer ground?

[David Wolfson]

New Orleans is a quirky, incredible part of our american history, culture, and architecture. Rebuild it -- maybe on stilts or higher ground the next time!

[Sam Sagnella]

Once the water is drained, whether it will take weeks or months I don't know, all of the devasted homes will likely need to be razed and then rebuilt. I believe that a large percentage of the population will decide that the idea of rebuilding their homes in such a vulnerable area is just impractical. I do think that, as is the case in the wake of most disasters, many will want nothing more than to build another house in the place that they call home -- New Orleans. Truthfully, I think that this question can best be answered with another question: Is hurricane season over for New Orleans?

[B Ozanne]

What about going with a Venice theme? That would be lots of fun.

[Aric Cylkowski]

In my opinion, the following should be done:

Seeing as a lot of the structures are already devastated by flooding and structual failure, they should be torn down. Those that are salvagable should be readied for jacking up for phase two.

Phase two involves all the strip mining operations across the country. Every operation produces tons of rocks and dirt that are just going to be carted off anyway. That material should be shipped to New Orleans pronto for phase three.

Phase three is the Galveston-esque raising of the town above sea level and up to a height of about 20 to 30 feet. The dirt and rocks acquired will help fill in an area that will be protected by a major seawall of approximate height in relation to the new city ground level. The salvaged buildings should be jacked up and be placed on top of the new solid ground. Utilities can then be placed underground in conduits (perhaps pressurized with air pumps to keep water out) to avoid having utlities such as electricity from being completely wiped out in the event of a major disaster.

Phase Four is rebuilding the city. With the city raised and brought up from being below sea level (and being able to withstand most surges in the future), the city should survive for a much longer time than if they just rebuild after the water is cleared.

However, if the project is too costly to consider, then build at your own risk. Either that or abandon the city altogether and be done with it, makes no difference to me.

[Cole McConnell]

Without a doubt, re-build.

[Bill Tabor]

I think before you rebuild you have to answer the question "Should ANY building be done ANYWHERE along vulnerable coastlines?".

[Edward Ballou]

My thoughts are abandoning...this is a liability for the future of America. This will end up costing taxpayers a whole lot more money. I'm not say give up rescue operations and such though.

He who builds his house on sand vs. he who builds his house on a solid foundation...

I opt for the solid foundation.

[Bill Tabor]

Truth is they always build and rebuild. As long as the federal government bails them out and insurance companies insure this will continue. I have heard with all the Florida hurricanes of recent years and with so many insurance companies going out of business it is getting more difficult and expensive to insure in these areas. Keep in mind that it is also always taxpayer money that bails out these situations. I think some rules and guidelines should be established about building along coastlines. Granted we still have to have ports for trade.

[Sam Sagnella]

An important detail is that few homeowners insurance policies cover flood damage.

[Cole McConnell]

An important detail is that few homeowners insurance policies cover flood damage.

You are very right.

[Kevin Bowman]

abandon, whos to say this will be the only storm to hit them this year? what if the exact same happens again last year.

[Jeff Snyder]

New Orleans is such a huge city, that I don't think it's practical to really say that they should just ditch the city... That's 1.5 million people, millions of jobs, etc, that are involved. There's no place for those folks to go. At least rebuilding New Orleans will provide jobs for those who will undoubtedly need them.

On a somewhat related note... From WWLTV.com:
Jeff Parish President. Residents will probably be allowed back in town in a week, with identification only, but only to get essentials and clothing. You will then be asked to leave and not come back for one month.
http://www.wwltv.com/

How are these folks going to afford to not work for one month? How about how to afford living in hotels for one month? Can't really cook kitchen food, so eating out for one month? There will need to be a ton of federal emergency money to provide these folks.

[Miriam Lawrence]

It's a moot point. The city will absolutely be rebuilt. 0% chance of any other outcome. It will look different, for sure, but it will be rebuilt.

While I agree in principle with the insanity of building a house, let alone a whole city, in such a vulnerable position, I think anyone who seriously suggests abandonment is massively misreading human nature. This area has a very, very long history and culture. It prides itself on being one of the most vibrant parts of the United States, the birthplace of jazz. People don't just walk away from that.

On top of which, in situations like this, many people take on a seige/war mentality, us vs. them (in this case, the "them" is mother nature and the elements). Irrational though it is, to many, abandoning would be tantamount to declaring defeat, and emotionally they absolutely cannot do that. (In fact, I think that's why a certain percentage of folks always choose to ride it out rather than evac -- they view the storm as the enemy, and evacuating as cowardly retreat.)

I actually heard this exact sentiment from someone in Biloxi or Gulfport on the evening news earlier. They showed someone hoisting an American flag into a tree, and this woman who had lost her house said "We've lost this battle, but not the war." She clearly planned to rebuild.

Meanwhile, my 6 year old son asks me why they're putting up an American flag... and I had to try to explain the completely irrational yet real connection for many people between natural disaster and patriotism.

[Chris Sokol]

I don't think that alot of you realize what exactly rebuilding will involve. Almost every single building in the affected area will have to either be demolished or completely stripped to the frame and rebuilt. By the time that the rebuilding process can begin, with the floods and exposure due to roof and window failure, so much mold and rot will be in place that this will be the only possible solution. The entire flooded area will have to be cleaned up for hazardous waste, chemicals, petrolium products, and human and animal remains. Multiple cities infrastructures will have to be completely rebuilt, including power, sewer, water, and road and highway systems. Then, all of the business that will have gone bankrupt during the rebuilding time will have to be replaced. The cities main source of revenue, tourism, is gone for an undeterminable period of time. And this is just a few of the problems facing the rebuilding effort. And before any of this can begin, you have to stop the water from coming in, and get it all pumped back out.

All of this...just to have another hurricane come through the year after the rebuilding is finished.

Move the city to the Northshore. Best plan of action.

[Morgan Palmer]

What about going with a Venice theme? That would be lots of fun.

There's already a Venice just down the road from NO, and in much worse shape, I am sure. :cry:

[Justin Turcotte]

I don't think that alot of you realize what exactly rebuilding will involve. Almost every single building in the affected area will have to either be demolished or completely stripped to the frame and rebuilt. By the time that the rebuilding process can begin, with the floods and exposure due to roof and window failure, so much mold and rot will be in place that this will be the only possible solution. The entire flooded area will have to be cleaned up for hazardous waste, chemicals, petrolium products, and human and animal remains. Multiple cities infrastructures will have to be completely rebuilt, including power, sewer, water, and road and highway systems. Then, all of the business that will have gone bankrupt during the rebuilding time will have to be replaced. The cities main source of revenue, tourism, is gone for an undeterminable period of time. And this is just a few of the problems facing the rebuilding effort. And before any of this can begin, you have to stop the water from coming in, and get it all pumped back out.


I agree with Chris on this one. Every building in town is flooded and will be that way for quite some time. The wet buildings will be cooking in the hot sun festering some really nasty mold and other interesting critters. Most homes will be a total loss. I don't know how many houses are there but let's say 100,000. Now if we assume $100,000 per house we're talking $10,000,000,000. That's ten bilion with plenty more to be found in the burbs. Throw in the apartments and businesses and that figure should easily double. It's time to cut the losses and move. If possible, save the historic buildings and move them to the new plat. After this is done the levies can be permanently removed and the area can ecologically restore itself which will limit future storm damage. All this will cost a tremendous amount of money carried largely on the backs of the taxpayer but not much nore than to 100% rebuild in the current location. This is the opportunity to build a better, cleaner, safer city.

[Amos Magliocco]

An LSU scientist speculated earlier on CNN that a massive tent city will go up on the North Shore of the lake. More than a million people will have no place to live for a very long time, and they won't all want to leave the area entirely; most won't have the money to relocate far away in any case. Many of the New Orleans residents I know would never consider living anywhere else. They love their home and their region, like most of us.

It would not surprise me if a new city doesn't emerge from that "tent city," much like new Palestinian towns grew in and around the refugee camps there. This could be a possible 'new' New Orleans. Who knows.

[Rob_Davis]

I can't imagine rebuilding in the traditional sense. In fact, any attempt to do so would be incredibly stupid and a collossal waste of money. If they are going to "rebuild," it shouldn't even be considered unless they are going to literally raise the city on a thirty feet of bedrock and sand. The whole "bowl" situation must be abandoned, and the current city buried forever.

The question is, can the insurance industry survive this?

[B Ozanne]

The question is, can the insurance industry survive this?

Insurance companies don't insure against floods that come from the ground up...like in New Orleans. Only the federal goverment insures against this through the National Flood Insurance Program.

The big question is if they rebuild will anybody re-insure the area?

[Jeff Snyder]

That's an interesting point... Aren't most "dollar figure damages" that we see associated with storms for the "insured loss"? For example, Andrew's ~$25 billion, wasn't that for insured losses? If so, assuming most of New Orleans isn't insured for flooding, won't the dollar figure amounts of damage from this hurricane be hugely understated in comparison to the actual amount of loss, seeing how almost all of New Orleans damage will likely be flood related.

[B Ozanne]

That's right. Most of the figures you see are for insured losses. Actual losses are obvioiusly much higher and far reaching.

[Rob_Davis]

Insurance companies don't insure against floods that come from the ground up...like in New Orleans. Only the federal goverment insures against this through the National Flood Insurance Program.
A significant portion of the destruction has nothing to do with flooding. It's "hurricane damage," not to mention the fire, vandalism, and other causes of loss.

[B Ozanne]

With insurance it doesn't matter. Damage caused by wind, rain, and fire will be covered by your policy. Damage caused by flooding will not be covered. I don't know how they sort out the difference, but they do. Unless of course you participate in the National Flood Insurance Program.

I'm not sure about looting. Destruction caused by war and riots is often not covered. Looting may be considered a riot.

I don't know the details about every insurance policy, but I do know what they generally cover.

Storm surge would also not be covered by a standard policy, you would need to be in the NFIP to be covered for that.

[Gabe Garfield]

Maybe it's human nature to feel like we haven't been beat by nature, and to take pride in our culture/society. But, isn't that pretty foolhardy? Haven't we learned our lesson? The forces of nature are much stronger than our pride, as was evidenced by the many who perished simply because they did not heed the warning.

The city of New Orleans has been humbled and brought to its knees. It is time for them to think circumspectly, and rebuild on higher ground.

Gabe

[Jeff Lawson]

Well, when you think about it, the city is still there. It just happens to be underneath several feet of water. Once the water has been removed (assuming it can be removed), you'll be left with a city that's relatively intact. Yes, many structures will be unsalvagable, but the infrastructure remains. Razing large swaths of the city and rebuilding will no doubt be a massive undertaking, but it's within reason.

Of course, the question is: who will return? As Amos points out, many will insist on remaining no matter what. But, consider that many of the refugees no longer have homes to return to. They have no workplace to return to. Their lives have been indefinitely and dramatically interrupted. If I found myself in such a situation, I'd be giving serious consideration to taking whatever assistance the federal government had to offer and getting the hell out of Dodge.

I'm mobile, however. That is, I have the means to pack up and start over elsewhere. Many New Orleans residents don't have the means to go elsewhere. Honestly, I don't know how you assist these people. Does the government step in and help relocate them en masse? Do they wait out their time in refugee camps as New Orleans is rebuilt?

And, of course, if the city is rebuilt, will there be jobs for these people? Will companies continue to do business in New Orleans? Will employers return? To what point will the local economy recover?

There's a disturbing social aspect to this, whereas the mobile workforce (i.e., educated and highly trained) could almost entirely relocate to other parts of the country, leaving the non-mobile (i.e., the poor, sick, and elderly) behind to pick up the pieces alone.

[Miriam Lawrence]

I'm not sure about looting. Destruction caused by war and riots is often not covered. Looting may be considered a riot.

I heard an insurance industry trade group representative interviewed on NPR this morning. He said that looting is indeed covered by most policies, as is interruption of trade.

If you're actually interested, you can listen to the segment here.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.p...storyId=4825688 (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4825688)

[Chris Sokol]

Looting may...and I stress may...be covered by theft also, but I am not really sure.

[Karen Politte]

I mentioned this on another thread just about 5 minutes ago, but to me it seems blatantly obvious that the GOVERNMENT are the ones who must bear this logistical nightmare for the PEOPLE. That is why we have government speak and act for us in a manner they see fit - for the betterment of the country's people as a whole.

In the medium-term - I foresee some kind of government-funded prefabricated housing scheme for these people in some available area around N.O.

These people need more than any "dome" can offer, right now - let along in a week's or a month's time.

KR

[Rob_Davis]

I mentioned this on another thread just about 5 minutes ago, but to me it seems blatantly obvious that the GOVERNMENT are the ones who must bear this logistical nightmare for the PEOPLE.
What makes you think they are not doing so? Were you there?

There are three FEMA facilities in the North Texas area which hold thousands of trailers just waiting to be sent to disasters such as these. It's not like you're the first person to ever think of this.

[Mikey Gribble]

I think they should rebuild. Even though the cost of rebuilding is going to be enourmous, repairing what is there will be less expensive than relocating. If everyone helps out, it can be done. The state and local government needs to spend whatever is neccessary to make sure that this can never happen again though. I never realized that New Orleans was not capable of handling a major hurricane. Flood control measures, designed to withstand a major hurricane, should have been in place a long time ago. I hope they don't make the same mistake again.

[Tim Vasquez]

I'm all for rebuilding, but I don't think insurers will cover anything inside those levees anymore unless the building elevations are significantly raised. They can probably dredge all that up from the Mississippi but it will be a ton of work. I think the insurance industry will be dangling the carrot on this issue.

Tim

[Miriam Lawrence]

I don't disagree -- but by that logic, the insurance industry shouldn't cover anyone along the entire Gulf Coast or the southeastern coast of the U.S.

This may become a reality as the hurricanes continue to get more and more frequent and intense (anyone here actually think this season has been just a fluke?) and rampant coastal development continues. The question is, how many more intense storms will have to hit and cause total devastation and over what period of time before the industry decides it's had enough?

[Damon Scott Hynes]

Phase three is the Galveston-esque raising of the town above sea level and up to a height of about 20 to 30 feet.

To what end? The area is still going to sink, maybe at an accellerated rate with all that loading placed on what is sand, muck--and no rock at all!