Reports allowed in Weather & Chasing

[Bill Tabor]

Sounds like this may be a good change Tim. We'll see how it goes. Thanks.

[Bill Hark]

Tim, does this mean that first hand chase reports will be mixed with after storm forecast analysis, comments on media etc?

It might be nice to keep a formal REPORT thread for each event, plus a couple of other threads as needed for post event analysis and discussion.
I do like being able to see specific first hand chase reports indexed by event and not having to wade through discussion and analysis.

Bill Hark

[Tim Vasquez]

Originally posted by Bill Hark
Tim, does this mean that first hand chase reports will be mixed with after storm forecast analysis, comments on media etc?

Not necessarily. We hope that if there is a "4/26/06 OK: Media circus" thread that someone back from a chase will [wisely] pass on that and put their pics & story in "4/26/06 OK: Anadarko chase". The moderators and myself have the power to split threads if the subjects are diverging, and we will encourage different perspectives to be posted in separate threads.

Tim

[nickgrillo]

No clue whatsoever on why this change has been made... The rules are hard to follow when your tired after a chase? I have made quite a few reports in the Maproom after a 20hr chase and I don't see many "rules" that had to be followed when making a REPORT. The Maproom is the most uncluttered and organized forum on the board... REPORTS have been there since the original Target Area. I love looking through the Maproom threads just because they are perfectly organized and unbelievably easy to sift through (due to the fact there is not hundreds of worthless posts) when researching past events.

If anything, make an entire separate board called "REPORTS and DISCUSSIONS" with strict guidelines like the Maproom. I hate to see first hand REPORTS get lost in all the W&C threads... I just cannot find a single reason for this change.

[Mickey Ptak]

Originally posted by Tim Vasquez
story in "4/26/06 OK: Anadarko chase".

Wooo the sound of that gets me excited! Back yard chasing? What's that? lol

I see the point in having them in the Weather & Chasing section. I think the map room is made for reports only, at least that is the way I understand it. If someone would like to talk about why, when, and or how something did or didn’t happen this new rule will help.

Two thumbs up! Good decision. It would be nice however, to keep them in one section in which they could be well organized and such though. Just a thought though.

Mick

[nickgrillo]

Originally posted by Mickey Ptak

I see the point in having them in the Weather & Chasing section. I think the map room is made for reports only, at least that is the way I understand it. If someone would like to talk about why, when, and or how something did or didn’t happen.
Mick

No... All REPORTS go in W&C now... That was apart of the new rule (which was my above argument).

[Mickey Ptak]

Originally posted by nickgrillo+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nickgrillo)</div><!--QuoteBegin-Mickey Ptak

I see the point in having them in the Weather & Chasing section. I think the map room is made for reports only, at least that is the way I understand it. If someone would like to talk about why, when, and or how something did or didn’t happen.
Mick

No... All REPORTS go in W&C now... That was apart of the new rule (which was my above argument).[/b]

Ooops. I didn't read the last line. Hmmm. Not real sure I like that though, but whatever. The mods and Tim have a plan so we might as well give it a shot.

Mick

[Tim Vasquez]

If you all want to have the option of using REPORT threads in Map Room, let's discuss it. Personally I don't see anything wrong with it. My primary concern is that nowcasts & forecasts stay in Map Room.

Tim

[nickgrillo]

Originally posted by Tim Vasquez
If you all want to have the option of using REPORT threads in Map Room, let's discuss it. Personally I don't see anything wrong with it. My primary concern is that nowcasts & forecasts stay in Map Room.

Tim

I liked the old way and I think leaving REPORTS in the Maproom suits absolutely perfectly. As for the discussion on previous events, I would leave those (like they have always been) in W&C (a new board soley for discussion would be nice, but not sure how many people would be interested in it). As I said in my previous post above, the new rule would REALLY clutter up things, and doesn't cater to the chaser who actually chased the day (will guarantee that below each report will be 100 posts from people who didn't even chase it). It would get highly confusing... This is why I liked the REPORTS in the Maproom (by keeping it all less cluttered) given the strict rules.

Chasing is why we have this board :wink:

[Andrew Khan]

Originally posted by nickgrillo+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nickgrillo)</div><!--QuoteBegin-Tim Vasquez
If you all want to have the option of using REPORT threads in Map Room, let's discuss it. Personally I don't see anything wrong with it. My primary concern is that nowcasts & forecasts stay in Map Room.

Tim

I liked the old way and I think leaving REPORTS in the Maproom suits absolutely perfectly. As for the discussion on previous events, I would leave those (like they have always been) in W&C (a new board soley for discussion would be nice, but not sure how many people would be interested in it). As I said in my previous post above, the new rule would REALLY clutter up things, and doesn't cater to the chaser who actually chased the day (will guarantee that below each report will be 100 posts from people who didn't even chase it). It would get highly confusing... This is why I liked the REPORTS in the Maproom (by keeping it all less cluttered) given the strict rules.

Chasing is why we have this board :wink:[/b]


I agree with you here. I think that Reports belong in the MAPROOM, just because for one, it's been that way for so long, and two, because it's more organized and easier to look through, if you going back later on in time to research a previous storm event, then it really saves a lot of time. I also believe it's very consice and easy to look through wuthout any mis-interpretation from excessive cluttering chatter.

[Aaron Kennedy]

I still like the idea of a clear and concise REPORT thread. Simply one post by each person which chased on a particular day. Makes it real easy to go back and see what others' catches were on any given chase day. Perhaps MAP ROOM is or isn't the place, but it would be nice to have some area of cyberspace with just reports and no small talk.

Aaron

[nickgrillo]

Originally posted by Aaron Kennedy
I still like the idea of a clear and concise REPORT thread. Simply one post by each person which chased on a particular day. Makes it real easy to go back and see what others' catches were on any given chase day. Perhaps MAP ROOM is or isn't the place, but it would be nice to have some area of cyberspace with just reports and no small talk.

Aaron

Yeah, exactly... And the Maproom has never really had a problem handling REPORT threads. While not only putting REPORT threads in W&C lead to massive noise posts, but it will also make the REPORT threads extremely hard to find out of all the other W&C threads (most have nothing to do with chasing). I absolutely vote to keep REPORTS in the Maproom...

[Tim Vasquez]

For Map Room (Target Area), expediency is the operative word: it's a mechanism for letting chasers get quality information quickly as events unfold. Beyond that, we don't really have any obligation to sort stories for chasers, and I don't feel we should be shutting out legitimate discussion about a storm event. Experienced chasers stuck at home may have quite a few pertinent observations, comments, and theories about what they saw on a certain chase day on radar/satellite/grapevine/etc, with those who were in the field or amongst themselves. Of course we don't want clutter, either, so it's an issue we may have to address.

Tim

[Dave Gallaher]

I vote (though we aren't voting) for keeping reports in Map Room--it makes for expedited one-stop shopping on busy wx days, whether in the field or at home wishing.

Dave Gallaher
Huntsville, AL

[Jeff Snyder]

What about keeping REPORTS in the Map Room but allowing post-event discussion in the Weather and chasing forum? This seems to be a pretty good compromise -- folks can still post their REPORTS in an organized thread, yet there is still a place for informal, post-event discussion in Weather and Chasing. So, type your official report in the REPORTS thread, and talk all you want in a Weather and Chasing thread.

[nickgrillo]

Originally posted by Jeff Snyder
What about keeping REPORTS in the Map Room but allowing post-event discussion in the Weather and chasing forum? This seems to be a pretty good compromise -- folks can still post their REPORTS in an organized thread, yet there is still a place for informal, post-event discussion in Weather and Chasing. So, type your official report in the REPORTS thread, and talk all you want in a Weather and Chasing thread.

Isn't that the way it was before? :lol:

If an event is worth discussing... Then, yeah, simply open up a thread in W&C (like it has always been). For instance, just a couple of weeks ago... A discussion was created for the Janurary 2nd severe weather event... In W&C.

So, yeah... I say keep the REPORTS (from people who actually CHASE) in the Maproom and put all post-event discussion in W&C. I for one would be in favor of having a totally seperate board, devoted to post-event analysis, but I can understand that idea may not appeal to a broad audience.

[David Drummond]

Originally posted by Jeff Snyder
What about keeping REPORTS in the Map Room but allowing post-event discussion in the Weather and chasing forum? This seems to be a pretty good compromise -- folks can still post their REPORTS in an organized thread, yet there is still a place for informal, post-event discussion in Weather and Chasing. So, type your official report in the REPORTS thread, and talk all you want in a Weather and Chasing thread.

I like this idea.

[Bill Tabor]

Originally posted by David Drummond+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(David Drummond)</div><!--QuoteBegin-Jeff Snyder
What about keeping REPORTS in the Map Room but allowing post-event discussion in the Weather and chasing forum? This seems to be a pretty good compromise -- folks can still post their REPORTS in an organized thread, yet there is still a place for informal, post-event discussion in Weather and Chasing. So, type your official report in the REPORTS thread, and talk all you want in a Weather and Chasing thread.

I like this idea.[/b]

I second it. Nick has a good point but discussion is important too. I recommend that a current chase could be discussed in W&C and preferably that it has a subject that describes it like 'May 3rd '99 - Discussion' for organization purposes and only one thread per chase day unless it is a subject secondarily different to just the chase day; Alternatively in Map Room we could have an additional qualifier such as "DISCUSS" and the date to allow discussion in the Map Room apart from just chaser reports. My guess is that most don't want to clutter Map Room up too much though.

[Scott Olson]

I like the idea of keeping 'Reports' in the Map Room and using W&C to have a discussion of the severe weather that has occured. Such as talking about the chase, meteoroligical discussions, f-scale ratings. It could also serve as an oppurtunity to encourage post-mortum anaylsis on the setup and chase strategy. It would provide a central thread for all discussion releating to that particular event that has occured.


-Scott Olson.

[Tim Vasquez]

Isn't that the way it was before?

The difference here is that up until now, it was "illegal" to post chase discussions in Weather & Chasing for events that were less than 48 hours old. Such discussions had to go in a REPORT thread in Map Room. Guess what... only chasers on the storm could post in a REPORT thread. That's why we're trying to open things up a bit. We may go with allowing REPORT threads in Map Room still.

Tim

[George Tincher]

I too think there should be a specific place reserved for all chase reports and chase reports alone. I also feel they should be grouped into a single thread containing all that day's reports, at least for events that occur in the same area. I would support more than one thread for different regions if that happened.

But if I am reading the changes correctly, you could have multiple reports threads, all about the same day. That would seem totally confusing. I wouldn't sift through 20 seperate posts just to get all the chase updates. And that's if it's the day of the event. As far as chronology and looking at specific dates at a later time, I wouldn't even consider it.

For the record, I don't care if REPORTS remains in maproom. It could be there or in W&C. That part I don't care about. But I think it would be a huge mistake to do away with the REPORTS threads completely or just as bad, fragmenting them into many threads. I see no reason why REPORTS can't remain as is, with any post event discussion conducted in W&C. It's really been that way the whole time anyway.

It just seems like the old approach worked well and was simple, while this new one would really make things rather difficult and fragmented. Of course that's just my opinion.

-George

[Shane Adams]

Originally posted by nickgrillo
No clue whatsoever on why this change has been made... The rules are hard to follow when your tired after a chase? I have made quite a few reports in the Maproom after a 20hr chase and I don't see many "rules" that had to be followed when making a REPORT. The Maproom is the most uncluttered and organized forum on the board... REPORTS have been there since the original Target Area. I love looking through the Maproom threads just because they are perfectly organized and unbelievably easy to sift through (due to the fact there is not hundreds of worthless posts) when researching past events.

If anything, make an entire separate board called "REPORTS and DISCUSSIONS" with strict guidelines like the Maproom. I hate to see first hand REPORTS get lost in all the W&C threads... I just cannot find a single reason for this change.

He's not saying REPORT threads will be put into Weather & Chasing...he's saying that moderators have the power (and will use it) to split topics inside of Weather & Chasing should they become off-topic due to people putting REPORT threads there erronously.

The only "change" is a more aggressive "clean-up" protocol for keeping REPORTS separate from other BS posts. Settle down, Grasshopper.

[nickgrillo]

Originally posted by Shane Adams+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Shane Adams)</div><!--QuoteBegin-nickgrillo
No clue whatsoever on why this change has been made... The rules are hard to follow when your tired after a chase? I have made quite a few reports in the Maproom after a 20hr chase and I don't see many "rules" that had to be followed when making a REPORT. The Maproom is the most uncluttered and organized forum on the board... REPORTS have been there since the original Target Area. I love looking through the Maproom threads just because they are perfectly organized and unbelievably easy to sift through (due to the fact there is not hundreds of worthless posts) when researching past events.

If anything, make an entire separate board called "REPORTS and DISCUSSIONS" with strict guidelines like the Maproom. I hate to see first hand REPORTS get lost in all the W&C threads... I just cannot find a single reason for this change.

He's not saying REPORT threads will be put into Weather & Chasing...he's saying that moderators have the power (and will use it) to split topics inside of Weather & Chasing should they become off-topic due to people putting REPORT threads there erronously.

The only "change" is a more aggressive "clean-up" protocol for keeping REPORTS separate from other BS posts. Settle down, Grasshopper.[/b]

Nope:

Originally posted by new maproom TOS
TALK and REPORT are no longer permitted.

Any post-chase summaries or storm discussions (formerly REPORT) may take place in Weather Lab, providing that you are not discussing something occurring now or about to occur.

That was my whole argument above... To keep the REPORT threads soley in the Maproom.

[John Farley]

I think reports should stay in Map Room, becuase they are easier to find there than among the much greater variety of material in Weather and Chasing. I also agree with the one post per person per event rule for Reports in Map Room. However, I have two points on the 48 hour issue. First, I agree with Tim that threads related to weather that has occurred within the last 48 hours should be allowed in Weather and Chasing. They could include discussions of the dynamics that produced the severe wx, discussion (other than first hand chaser reports) of what occurred in the storm, and discussions of things like chaser convergence, chase etiquette breaches, etc. Second, I think it should be permitted to post a report in Map Room more than 48 hours after an event, becuase sometimes it just isn't possible to get a report written up and posted within 48 hours due to travel, work obligations, or good chase days coming in rapid succession. That's my $.02

[Neal Rasmussen]

Shouldn't we be Y2K compliant on the prefix?

2006-01-24?

;)

nealras
http://www.nealras.com

[Amos Magliocco]

I wish Stormtrack would reconsider the barring of REPORTS from Map Room. This is going to make previous reports difficult to find.

If the intent is to allow elaboration on past events, I think that improvement is possible without the rule change, as we see taking place at the moment. The Weather & Chasing topic regarding yesterday's Kansas storms was well underway before Scott Currens' report was shifted out of Map Room. What's happening now is that Scott's report is quickly falling down the list in Weather & Chasing, and in another few days it will be long gone. This seems like a real mistake. I still believe the most valuable content here are the forecasts and reports, although I understand that my opinion is among a rapidly dwindling minority.

If the primary motivation is to foster or encourage additional discussion about chases, why not create a DISC type post that is allowed ONLY in Weather & Chasing and that will help readers and posters focus on particular events and remember to use formatting similar to Map Room?

What was so appealing about the Map Room was the certainty that one could find only three kinds of posts, and that the archives were clean and easily navigated. I used Map Room archives a great deal when researching June 9, 2005 in preparation for my Storms of 2005 segment. Of course this is still possible in W & C, but with the many hundreds of additional topics, and the presence of other topics with similar headings ["1/28/2006: tornadoes yesterday" and "REPORTS 1/28/2006," for example] searches will be much more difficult.

EDIT: and I didn't even think about that now REPORTS threads will include general commentary and questions instead of first-hand reports only. This is a huge degradation, in my opinion. Why is this necessary?

[nickgrillo]

Agreed... I had already argued about this subject above (it's been a couple weeks or so now). No sense for me to rehatch what I said above and what Amos just said... But this subject needs to come to the board again... I'd strongly suggest a public vote on the subject. I still have no clue on why REPORT threads were thrown into W&C... I understand post-event discussion being allowed (under 48hrs) -- but why allow first-hand reports get cluttered up?

Makes no sense... None at all...

[Sam Sagnella]

I agree with Nick's sentiment that the REPORTS threads need to stay in the Map Room, with any related discussion going in W&C. The same regulations that have helped keep the FCST threads free of one-line responses and tangential discussion were also very useful in keeping the REPORTS threads as on-topic. Nowhere else on the internet could you find such a comprehensive record of storm chasers' first hand chase accounts, and, IMO, removing that element is quite detrimental to ST.

[Robert Dewey]

Ditto that...

Reports should belong in the Map Room, and post even analysis should be allowed (as we WERE doing) in the Weather Lab.

[Laura Duchesne]

Keep first hand chase reports in the map room please.... if they are moved to weather & chasing, things will get very cluttered, hard to find, and hard to distinguish between chaser and nonchaser reports, and the reports would get pushed back by other non report threads. So I agree with Amos.

[Bill Hark]

What about keeping REPORTS in the Map Room but allowing post-event discussion in the Weather and chasing forum? This seems to be a pretty good compromise -- folks can still post their REPORTS in an organized thread, yet there is still a place for informal, post-event discussion in Weather and Chasing. So, type your official report in the REPORTS thread, and talk all you want in a Weather and Chasing thread.


I think Jeff has verbalized my feeling the best. Let's keep the REPORTS in the Map Room and the discussion can be placed in Weather and Chasing. I strongly believe that REPORTS should also remain first-hand chase accounts even if the final report has to be prepared a couple days later or edited as the chaser may be to tired to write the full report the evening of the event.

Bill Hark

[Kurt Silvey]

I would have to agree with most of the others here. Since I had other commitments on Saturday and I didn’t have time to follow this rare January event, the first thing I did Sunday was to check the SPC’s Storm Reports, and then go to the Map Room forum and see if anybody was on the KS storms. You know what I found? Scott’s report right at the top where it should be. I would even take this one step further and open a “xx/xx/xx – Post Event Discussion” thread in the Map Room, this would be a thread where post event discussion and analysis could take place. It would need to be heavily regulated just like the other threads is “MR”, but it would be a place to discuss pattern setups, surface charts, boundaries, ect. It would not be a place for things like “hey nice pics dude” or “wow, major chaser convergence” those types of things just do not belong in MR. But if all of this information is moved into W&C, it will be lost. As with others, the MR is what attracted me to Stormtrack; it is Stormtrack’s reason for being, if this is lost what’s left? Just another chat room.

[John Farley]

Looking through the comments in this thread, it appears that there is a great deal of sentiment for returning REPORTS to Map Room, limited to first-hand chase reports only. Moderators, I (and I think a lot of others) would really like to see a vote on this. Would you please consider setting up an advisory poll? Discussions of weather that has already occurred, comments on chase reports, incidents on chases, etc. could stay in Weather and Chasing, but first hand chaser reports would return to MR. Thanks for considering this request.

[Sam Sagnella]

Originally posted by John Farley
Moderators, I (and I think a lot of others) would really like to see a vote on this. Would you please consider setting up an advisory poll?

[Robert Dewey]

I guess their decision was final :roll:

[Jeff Snyder]

Originally posted by rdewey
I guess their decision was final :roll:

No. We are still in discussion.

[Robert Dewey]

Originally posted by Jeff Snyder+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jeff Snyder)</div><!--QuoteBegin-rdewey
I guess their decision was final :roll:

No. We are still in discussion.[/b]

Opps... Sorry :oops:

[Kurt Silvey]

For what’s its worth, it’s nice to see the 2/16/06 reports in the Map Room. The post was very easy to find. Could this be an indication of things to come?

[Shane Adams]

I speak for no one but myself, but I for one won't be posting reports on StormTrack so others can sit and dissect them and question them rather than just read and enjoy them. I can tell you right now if a report of mine was met with the skepticism (publicly displayed) that Scott's last report was, I wouldn't be as diplomatic in my defense. In fact I'd be quite nasty. I don't take kindly to my chases being critiqued by people who largely do not chase.

REPORTS should be kept in the map room. That's the one forum that actually caters to chasers first, not weather enthusiasts. This entire site is for weather enthusiasts first, so I think it's a very bad idea to start chipping away at the one area designed specifically for chasers. The Scott Currens report thread was a great example of what's to come by leaving REPORTS in a general weather forum for all to see and critique.

This is my opinion on the subject.

[B Ozanne]

This is getting more and more like a bunch of old people sitting around and making up rules for the condo association. You're just making rules for the sake of making rules.

It seems like the "Information Desk" section is just a forum to discuss the rules. Granted, I like things under control, but it becomes counter-productive at some point.

Another thing, when somebody accidently puts a post in the wrong area we don't need all the members running around like a bunch of nazis telling on everyone. We'll leave that to the moderators.

[Robert Dewey]

Originally posted by B Ozanne
Another thing, when somebody accidently puts a post in the wrong area we don't need all the members running around like a bunch of nazis telling on everyone. We'll leave that to the moderators.

Sorry if my post in the Map Room bothered you, but I had alread made a thread and there was no use of it going to waste :roll:

If only people would actually READ the threads before making a new one... :roll:

[Shane Adams]

Originally posted by B Ozanne+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(B Ozanne)</div>This is getting more and more like a bunch of old people sitting around and making up rules for the condo association. You're just making rules for the sake of making rules. [/b]

No, we're discussing the rules because a change has been thrown out to the board and now we're discussing it. The point is to keep StormTrack from becoming just another chatboard filled with meaningless crap and flame wars. So there are reasons behind the rules. And who are you calling old?


<!--QuoteBegin-B Ozanne
It seems like the "Information Desk" section is just a forum to discuss the rules.

That's because it is.


Originally posted by B Ozanne+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(B Ozanne)</div>Granted, I like things under control, but it becomes counter-productive at some point.[/b]

I don't get what you mean there. Have you seen a chatboard that wasn't policed? They're worthless.


<!--QuoteBegin-B Ozanne
Another thing, when somebody accidently puts a post in the wrong area we don't need all the members running around like a bunch of nazis telling on everyone. We'll leave that to the moderators.

I'll agree with you on that one, and I have a great idea who some of the names behind this practice are. Not much can be done about that though, the privlidge has been extended and a certain few members make full use of it.

[Robert Dewey]

Okay, I'll make it quite clear that I didn't report anyone to anybody... All I did was suggest that they use the thread I already created (and worked hard on, LOL)...

Sorry if I was a little confused.

As for the rest of Shane's post, I agree.

[B Ozanne]

Originally posted by rdewey
Sorry if my post in the Map Room bothered you, but I had alread made a thread and there was no use of it going to waste :roll:

If only people would actually READ the threads before making a new one... :roll:

Sorry, that was a little mean, it wasn't supposed to be directed at you. I like to keep things organized in one thread as well.

As far as this forum goes, I think things are ok. Sure, it could be better. If you ever think things are bad I just bring up my whipping boy, the Wright Weather Forum. If there ever was a disastrous weather forum its there.

[nickgrillo]

I am guessing the REPORT matter is coming to a close, because there is a REPORT thread existing in the Maproom since the change (unless a moderator(s) forgot to move them). I agree with Shane's words... I wouldn't be very happy with the skepticism that Scott C got on one of my reports, and I wouldn't be very friendly about it, neither. I spend lots of time and money in this hobby -- and yes, it is a hobby -- and while I do it soley for myself because I LOVE severe storms, I still like to share it with others. I certainly wouldn't want crap given to me by someone who doesn't even chase -- on a public board.

As for myself, I was given crap by several people a couple weeks ago on a different storm forum calling a photo of mine of "unreal" and "fake" looking... I gave a nice response, before I simply decided to delete whole thread. Mind you, the people who were talking about MY photos don't even CHASE.

I sure would have hated to see ST throw out the only chaser-devoted thing it has -- the Maproom. Like the saying goes, "if something ain't broke, then don't fix it". I'll never figure out why the change was done anyways. When it was done, the persons who made the change should have known chasers would be highly upset on the matter -- and get even more upset when they see a veteran chaser getting SLAMMED in one of the REPORT threads in W&C from people who have never even got out of their house to chase. Before you have the nerve to talk about my storms and tornadoes, I suggest you get out of the house -- and get some YOURSELF.

As for people "policing" threads... While I never do it, I don't see anything that bad about it -- since I guess it helps moderators see the problem(s)?! Whatever happened to that little thing called bluecard, anyways? And why is there still a non-convective damaging wind thread in the Maproom like 8 hours later?

[B Ozanne]

Originally posted by nickgrillo
And why is there still a non-convective damaging wind thread in the Maproom like 8 hours later?

Don't want to get technical but all the winds I reported were associated with a convective line of showers and thunderstorms.

[Scott Olson]

The thread in Map Room appears to be in compliance since what was being discussed was associated with convection. As for the issue of Reports, this is being discussed and should be addressed shortly. Everyones input has been taken into account and is appreciated.

Thanks,
Scott Olson

[Glen Romine]

I've largely sat on the sidelines on this one - but feel compelled to throw in my 2 cents before the debate is settled. I don't see how the argument of keeping reports in the map room is valid. As is, if a reports thread is created, it is quickly split well away from the forecast discussion and nowcast threads, since posts can be made to reports long after the event is over. So, there is already going to be a massive split there, regardless of where the reports are made, be it W&C or map room.

So - the next issue is whether a report thread in W&C is going to get 'lost' before anyone has a chance to find it. While more work for the mods, my suggestions is a 'sticky' placed on all reports for one week after the thread is created. During the spring this could lead to several threads placed prominently at the top of W&C. Finding the reports afterward is no harder than before imo, since you can just go up and use the 'search' feature so long as post titles for reports follow specific format guidelines.

Continuing, what is the possible benefit of moving the reports to W&C? Well, if it indeed attracts thoughtful discussion about events - regardless of whether made by a person on the scene or not - I see this as a positive for ST. The way this is ensured is strict moderation - so again, more work for the mods to clean junk posts out, but relieves the prior limitation of only allowing one thread per member for an event (which I thought was a real restriction since you rarely go back through old posts to see if anyone made an update to an earlier report).

I know my opinion doesn't mean much - but I see few comments finding the positive impacts possible from the change, and thought I'd offer up a few ideas for the other team.

Glen

[Scott A. Kampas]

I strongly concur with Jeff's, Amos', and similar sentiments on this matter.

[Mike Peregrine]

Going to throw in a vote to keep pure chaser report threads in the map room. I go back there FREQUENTLY to find info on past events (tornadic events being the most important in my mind) ... and the thought of sifting through the piles of posts in Weather & Chasing to find the same info. fills me with a new kind of fear.

If people want to chat about the event, great - then they can do it in a W&C thread ... original report authors can likewise modify their report as needed in the original report topic in the map room, something I frequently do just to add images or whatever. Putting reports in W&C will only encourage the original chaser to become further lost in the plethora of people asking things like: 'so how far away from the tornado were you?' ... or 'wow - wish I could have seen that,' or insert your favorite one-liner here.

[Tim Stoecklein]

I would like to see the REPORTS put in the Map Room, my $0.02.

On another $0.02...........

[quote]Mind you, the people who were talking about MY photos don't even CHASE.quote]

......I beg to differ, nice generalization, and I still think they looked fake :roll:

[nickgrillo]

Tim,

I wasn't referring to the thread about "photo manipulation" on SC.org... I was referring to a totally seperate critique thread... Sorry (and I wasn't referring to you) that I didn't clear it up.

Originally posted by Tim Stoecklein+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tim Stoecklein)</div>I would like to see the REPORTS put in the Map Room, my $0.02.

On another $0.02...........

<!--QuoteBegin-nickgrillo
Mind you, the people who were talking about MY photos don't even CHASE

......I beg to differ, nice generalization, and I still think they looked fake :roll:[/b]

[Sheila_Ward]

Originally posted by Mike Peregrine
Going to throw in a vote to keep pure chaser report threads in the map room. I go back there FREQUENTLY to find info on past events (tornadic events being the most important in my mind) ... and the thought of sifting through the piles of posts in Weather & Chasing to find the same info. fills me with a new kind of fear.

If people want to chat about the event, great - then they can do it in a W&C thread ... original report authors can likewise modify their report as needed in the original report topic in the map room, something I frequently do just to add images or whatever. Putting reports in W&C will only encourage the original chaser to become further lost in the plethora of people asking things like: 'so how far away from the tornado were you?' ... or 'wow - wish I could have seen that,' or insert your favorite one-liner here.

I agree with Mike and other chasers who have expressed concerns about moving the reports to W&C. First hand chase reports need to stay in the maproom. Any other discussion about an event can go in W&C. I want to read what other chasers experienced during an event and I don't want to sort through a bunch of BS comments trying to find them.

As Shane said, Scott's report thread was an example of what's to come if they are moved to W&C. I don't think it's too much to ask that chasers keep one thread that's for first hand chase reports only in the Map Room.

[Dick McGowan]

The thread in Map Room appears to be in compliance since what was being discussed was associated with convection. As for the issue of Reports, this is being discussed and should be addressed shortly. Everyones input has been taken into account and is appreciated.

Thanks,
Scott Olson

Bump. Been over a week now. Any decisions yet?

Also, I see you have removed my Reports thread out of the maproom, and possibly moved it into W & C. I have no problem with this. But, you have also left other REPORTS from other days in there.

[Jeff Snyder]

Bump. Been over a week now. Any decisions yet?

Also, I see you have removed my Reports thread out of the maproom, and possibly moved it into W & C. I have no problem with this. But, you have also left other REPORTS from other days in there.

Since the current rules still disallow REPORTS-type threads in Map Room, those REPORTS thread made since the start of that rule have been moved into W&C. We are still discussing the matter, and hope to have an official statement out sometime soon.

[Robert Dewey]

Good grief, this isn't the Gore recounts... It really shouldn't take this long :lol:

[Dick McGowan]

Bump. Been over a week now. Any decisions yet?

Also, I see you have removed my Reports thread out of the maproom, and possibly moved it into W & C. I have no problem with this. But, you have also left other REPORTS from other days in there.

Since the current rules still disallow REPORTS-type threads in Map Room, those REPORTS thread made since the start of that rule have been moved into W&C. We are still discussing the matter, and hope to have an official statement out sometime soon.

Yes, they have now, as I received a PM from one of your moderators. One was still left over from Florida Keys, and he moved it over after my first post.

[Bill Hark]

I was doing some research on a previous chase day "June 4, 2005," and it was very nice to look back under REPORTS and find a single thread with first hand reports from that day without wading through other stuff. I would hate to lose that referencing ability.

Bill Hark

[Glen Romine]

Originally posted by Tim Vasquez
For Map Room (Target Area), expediency is the operative word: it's a mechanism for letting chasers get quality information quickly as events unfold. Beyond that, we don't really have any obligation to sort stories for chasers, and I don't feel we should be shutting out legitimate discussion about a storm event. Experienced chasers stuck at home may have quite a few pertinent observations, comments, and theories about what they saw on a certain chase day on radar/satellite/grapevine/etc, with those who were in the field or amongst themselves. Of course we don't want clutter, either, so it's an issue we may have to address.

Tim

I'm all for the ideas above - but would ask that moderators don't throw in the towel on removing frivilous posts made as follow ups to reports. Any of the 'way to go!' and 'nice catch' posts are exactly what not to have under the new format imo. If the goal of moving the reports out of Map Room was to improve the post event content - then allowing these types of posts will do just the opposite. Hopefully there can at least be consensus among the mods to keep the post quality of reports threads high, and keep accolades to pm's.

Glen

[Shane Adams]

Seems easier to leave REPORTS in the Map Room and allow discussions on those events in Weather & Chasing, instead of removing REPORTS from the Map Room altogether and then having to constantly police the frivolous posts that will come fast and furious in Weather & Chasing.

Of course the main thing we're all forgetting is that with REPORTS being in Weather & Chasing, they will be buried quickly under all the other random topics that are started daily in W & C. Creating a "sticky" for each event date for REPORTS in W & C (to insure they aren't buried) would just add to the clutter factor...there's already multiple stickies and honestly, when there's three or more stickies, I ignore them. Look at this forum, there's like ten stickies that constantly bury new topics, so bad that you have to scroll down to read new topics that aren't sticky topics. I can predict a lot of complaining from casual W & C users when there's a dozen stickies for various chase events that keep the "normal" new topics constantly buried. To fix that problem, you'd have to subject the REPORTS threads to "constant burial". I just don't see the gain of having REPORTS in W & C. Let people discuss chase events in W & C 'til the cows come home, but don't take away the efficiency of the REPORTS thread as it existed in the Map Room. IMO, StormTrack, during prime Spring chase season, should cater to storm chasers first, weather enthusiasts second.

Not to be rude, but just an FYI...there are other options that weren't around a year ago, and chasers will go where they're catered to first for storm season posting. Then again, a lot of newer chasers would probably support this new proposal. I think the decision for StormTrack is, do they want to target established/veteran chasers, or the newbie chasers/enthusiasts. Neither demographic is more important than the other, so this is simply a case of personal choice for the ST brass.

[Mike Umscheid]

Seems to me that there's strong disagreement on where first-hand chase accounts should be located on the ST forum. If I had to choose between Maproom and W&C, I'd vote for Maproom. Why? Map room deals with specific chase days/events. W&C, as others have alluded to, has such high traffic these days, REPORTS will easily get lost, which would be a shame. There's MUCH traffic on most all of the boards even in the cold season. ST Forum has become quite popular. My suggestive solution? Simple... create a dedicated board just for first-hand accounts. I think first-hand chase accounts and photos are the most "cherished" posts and it's what most everyone will be looking at and wanting to read during the chase season. While this proposed dedicated board may be dead during the cold season (outside of the occasional Mike H blizzard chase!), I feel it is the easiest and fastest (and best) way to read chasers' first-hand storm chase accounts - and it's the chase accounts that have made Stormtrack "The magazine" what it was. Anyway, that's my 2c

Mike U

[Jay McCoy]

Ya I made the mistake last night of posting my report in the maproom (was that the 1st report of the season???) and it was promptly moved to the W&C section. If the maproom isnt the proper place then maybe a seperate section just for reports. Like Shane said so well if they are posted in the W&C section they will get buried under all the other topics and discussions. But remember reports are probably the most popular topic people read during the season.

I can understand not wanting to clutter the maproom with reports so that people can access updated forecasts while on the road but if the topics were up to date wouldnt they be on the top anyway and no searching would be needed. I think reports are one of the things most of us like to ready anyway. To see the photos or video of what we missed or to confirm what we did see. Do chasers actually use the NOW threads while on the road or is that more for cyber-chasers? If I have web access on the road I am looking at my own radar, sat pic or surface obs not reading what others have posted.

Oh well until or if its changed I will post in the W&C since I have no choice.

[Sheila_Ward]

Yep Jay, there's your chase report in W&C now. At the time of this writing, it's below posts about Jupiter's new red spot, hurricane pinhole eyes, when will the first high risk of 2006 be and other general posts.

To me, this is a pretty big decision regarding the future of Stormtrack. If reports are moved to weather and chasing, then it seems first hand reports from chasers aren't important here anymore. Like others have mentioned, I can't count the number of times I've gone to the Map Room to research chase reports from past events. I'm not searching through W&C to find a reports thread, then searching within that thread to find some first hand information.

I'm just a small dot in this chaser gig, but it's dissapointing that I'm watching well respected and veteran chasers having to fight so hard to hold on to a few things that make Stormtrack what it is.

FWIW, I definitely would like to see first hand reports stay in the maproom, and other post-discussions about an event in W&C without the 48hr restriction.

[Mike Peregrine]

This discussion is an example of trying to decide who should be accomodated first in the public sites ... should it be the general public, or the chaser? The fact that it has taken so long to find resolution indicates a fairly serious conflict of interest.

Personally, it's difficult to understand the controversy. If there is a question concerning reports threads by actual chasers, then why have a map room at all? Why not simply post all forecasts, nowcasts - and everything in the W&C room? Attempting to make distinctions such as this one and fine-tune the board does not encourage participation - and in fact encourages further alienation by chasers. Sheila's observations above are on the money. In the weeks to come - more than all other times of the year - the breach will really become evident - as we make an attempt to not only sift through subheadings to find the report threads, but then further sift through each report thread in an effort to get an actual report from someone who was witness to an event. I finally blogged a story on my site as to where I feel the difficulties may be coming from. It's not intended as a hack job, but rather to encourage some more conversation on what can reasonably be done to improve what appears to be a deteriorating situation. (It's long ... sorry ... but it has to be, since this is a big subject.)

[Robert Dewey]

This is almost funny...

Here we are, almost TWO MONTHS LATER... And there is STILL no decision. Seriously, what's the hold up? It's as simple as putting a poll up. Seems like everyone has VERY good points - i.e. Shane, Sheila, Jay, Mike U, etc., but nobody is listening. :roll: :x

[Jeff Snyder]

This is almost funny...

Here we are, almost TWO MONTHS LATER... And there is STILL no decision. Seriously, what's the hold up? It's as simple as putting a poll up. Seems like everyone has VERY good points - i.e. Shane, Sheila, Jay, Mike U, etc., but nobody is listening. :roll: :x

If no changes have been announced (which is currently the case) then the rules stand. This issue is still being discussed (yes, there is disagreement). At this time, however, since no changes have been announced, the current rules stand. While our opinions differ, I think Tim is just waiting to see how these rules play out.

[Robert Dewey]

... should it be the general public, or the chaser? ...

The chaser... They are the ones who make up this site - If you piss them off, they might decide not to post their reports anymore. Then where are we? This is a very, very simple case of "if it's not broken, then don't fix it".

Good points Mike P...

[Shane Adams]

I'll start by making it very clear, I have no personal problem with the ST brass, on any level...they do a thankless job, and I don't envy them. Speaking from a purely ST member/chaser perspective, I find it very disappointing and moreso - unsettling - that ST has decided to let things ride as they have been, considering storm season is here. This, if not any other part of the year, is what StormTrack should be about.

I'll sift through the hundreds of pointless, uninteresting, rehashed-from-world-news-headlines Bar & Grill posts July-February. I'll live with the countless, repeated posts on Weather & Chasing, all of which are recycled every six months or so by new members who don't realize we've all had these same discussions more than once before. I'll deal with random/subtle rule changes that largely, in my mind, seem only to confuse rather than refine. I do all of this, because I expect that when it's storm season - it's my turn to be catered to.

But this isn't happening, so I find myself asking the question: Why am I here?

My post count no doubt reflects my more-than-willingness to participate on StormTrack, in several forums. But the point of that is entertainment. I hang around in the off-season because chasing, to me, is life. I embrace all things chasing, as I constantly await the return of that time of year when chasing - and chasers - are the focal point of this site. That is the only reason. However, I cannot find a reason to be here knowing that now, chasers have no more relevance on this site in May than they do in December. It makes no sense to me.

My problem with ST at this point (as of this post) has now changed. It's no longer that chasers aren't being made a priority, it's that a decision isn't being made at all. This is not the time to "wait and see" who means more to this site - chasers or enthusiasts. Truthfully, if it's still up in the air the first week of March, the decision has been made.

My decision to withdraw from ST isn't about status or self-induldgence, it's about desire. I have none, to post real chasing information that will not be regarded any higher than a random post about what color the clouds were today at someone's hometown. Am I the only person who sees this obvious flaw, or am I just an oddball who doesn't see that everything is ok? I don't know.

All I do know is, I have made a decision, because someone has to.

[Jay McCoy]

... should it be the general public, or the chaser? ...

The chaser... They are the ones who make up this site - If you piss them off, they might decide not to post their reports anymore. Then where are we? This is a very, very simple case of "if it's not broken, then don't fix it".

Good points Mike P...

Thats what I am worried about is chasers NOT posting their reports anymore since they will end up buried in the W&C section. Ok forget the maproom. why not have a small section for nothing but 1st hand reports?? Most people on here want to read the chase reports. Chasers,cyber-chasers, and wx-wienies alike. That is one of the things ST was built on was reports from the field. I think we are losing sight of that.

EDIT** Shane posted same time as I did so I didnt get to read his until I already posted mine. Shane I agree in sooo many ways. Will the wx-wienies and chasers even bother to come as much if they arent able to read chase reports because chasers decide not to post them.

I have the utmost respect for the admin and Mods here. I am personal friends with some. They do a thankless job in keeping things civil but this is probably one of the most important desicions they will make about ST. Do we abandon our roots and make chasers feel like their reports are just more posting fodder or do we make it part of the core attractions of ST

[Shane Adams]

Thats what I am worried about is chasers NOT posting their reports anymore since they will end up buried in the W&C section. Ok forget the maproom. why not have a small section for nothing but 1st hand reports?? Most people on here want to read the chase reports. Chasers,cyber-chasers, and wx-wienies alike. That is one of the things ST was built on was reports from the field. I think we are losing sight of that.

BTW...not 24 hours after being submitted, Jay's report from yesterday is now buried under eight other threads, no longer visible without scrolling. I guess someone is probably benefitting from all of this...I imagine the NST boards are alive with merrymaking and dancing in the streets.

[Chris Foltz]

I'll start by making it very clear, I have no personal problem with the ST brass, on any level...they do a thankless job, and I don't envy them. Speaking from a purely ST member/chaser perspective, I find it very disappointing and moreso - unsettling - that ST has decided to let things ride as they have been, considering storm season is here. This, if not any other part of the year, is what StormTrack should be about.

I'll sift through the hundreds of pointless, uninteresting, rehashed-from-world-news-headlines Bar & Grill posts July-February. I'll live with the countless, repeated posts on Weather & Chasing, all of which are recycled every six months or so by new members who don't realize we've all had these same discussions more than once before. I'll deal with random/subtle rule changes that largely, in my mind, seem only to confuse rather than refine. I do all of this, because I expect that when it's storm season - it's my turn to be catered to.

But this isn't happening, so I find myself asking the question: Why am I here?

My post count no doubt reflects my more-than-willingness to participate on StormTrack, in several forums. But the point of that is entertainment. I hang around in the off-season because chasing, to me, is life. I embrace all things chasing, as I constantly await the return of that time of year when chasing - and chasers - are the focal point of this site. That is the only reason. However, I cannot find a reason to be here knowing that now, chasers have no more relevance on this site in May than they do in December. It makes no sense to me.

My problem with ST at this point (as of this post) has now changed. It's no longer that chasers aren't being made a priority, it's that a decision isn't being made at all. This is not the time to "wait and see" who means more to this site - chasers or enthusiasts. Truthfully, if it's still up in the air the first week of March, the decision has been made.

My decision to withdraw from ST isn't about status or self-induldgence, it's about desire. I have none, to post real chasing information that will not be regarded any higher than a random post about what color the clouds were today at someone's hometown. Am I the only person who sees this obvious flaw, or am I just an oddball who doesn't see that everything is ok? I don't know.

All I do know is, I have made a decision, because someone has to.

All I have to say in response is AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ST is in serious trouble if you ask me. I feel this site is on the verge of losing it's most precious commodity, the chaser. The creed at the top of the page says "serving chasers since 1977". I propose a change to "serving chasers from 1977-2005" because some of the recent changes have been anything but a service to those who go out in the field. The latest decision with regard to where to place reports is yet another example. I honestly don't see why it's such a big deal to have them in the Maproom. If the reason is to cut down on clutter, that doesn't wash because the thread clearly states it is for first-hand chase reports/photos. How is that cluttering the Maproom? I don't have much more to add beyond what has already been stated so I'll end my rant here...

[David Drummond]

I think you guys are overreacting just a bit. Just consider that a GREAT DEAL of discussion and consideration is going on among the mods and admin in a effort to make the best possible decision regarding these.

That said, no matter WHAT decision is made, there will be yet another thread of those that are unhappy with the decision.

As there is disagreement among the general members (even in this thread) as to the best possible way to handle this, so there is also disagreement among the mods/admin as well. On the surface, it may seem like an easy decision to come to if something needs to change and if so what, but in real application it's more complicated than that.

There will be no perfect solution for everyone, that much is assured. What is the best possible balance/handling of reports is what is being decided though.

[Tyler_Costantini]

I know I'm not the only one to feel this way from conversation with other people who are members of the board. I'm down right scared to post something as a new member worried that it will be moved, locked or removed i have read all of the rules closely. Don't get me wrong i know their is a fine line between having a good enviroment for disscussion and getting pages of One Liners that have no real value. But it seems that alot of newer members are scared to post even if they are out in the field looking at a storm, for that matter it's hard to tell where to post it.

My thoughts. Sorry if it's a bit off topic.

[Justin Turcotte]

Simple solution: A new forum board dedicated to first hand reports. If the reports really are the pride and joy of the users than it belongs in a league of its own. If not, than keep first hand accounts in the Map Room.

[David Drummond]

I know I'm not the only one to feel this way from conversation with other people who are members of the board. I'm down right scared to post something as a new member worried that it will be moved, locked or removed i have read all of the rules closely. Don't get me wrong i know their is a fine line between having a good enviroment for disscussion and getting pages of One Liners that have no real value. But it seems that alot of newer members are scared to post even if they are out in the field looking at a storm, for that matter it's hard to tell where to post it.

My thoughts. Sorry if it's a bit off topic.

Don't be scared to most, none of us are going to boot you or come hunt you down for making a mistake in posting. It's pretty rare that any post or thread is removed by a moderator. Remember, everyone has the ability to delete their own posts now, and some have been making very liberal use of that ability.

[rdale]

Looking back through Page 1 of this thread - I can't seem to find a reason WHY the change was made? Even TimV said he didn't mind reports in MapRoom, so who does mind - and why?

[Shane Adams]

I think you guys are overreacting just a bit. Just consider that a GREAT DEAL of discussion and consideration is going on among the mods and admin in a effort to make the best possible decision regarding these.

I don't think we're overreacting, because of the quote above...that a deliberation is needed to decide this issue (that shouldn't even be an issue) is cause for alarm IMO. We shouldn't even be having this conversation.


That said, no matter WHAT decision is made, there will be yet another thread of those that are unhappy with the decision.

While I can't speak for others, I can assure you there won't be such a thread from me personally. This thread is my last effort to try and sway ST to serve chasers, at least for the three months out of the year when people actually chase.


As there is disagreement among the general members (even in this thread) as to the best possible way to handle this, so there is also disagreement among the mods/admin as well. On the surface, it may seem like an easy decision to come to if something needs to change and if so what, but in real application it's more complicated than that.

It shouldn't be, and IMO that's the problem. Do all the moderators actively, seriously chase? I'm thinking not. Otherwise it wouldn't be an issue, unless commercial factors are invloved, in which case we're pretty much screwed regardless.


There will be no perfect solution for everyone, that much is assured. What is the best possible balance/handling of reports is what is being decided though.

StormTrack itself is an imperfect solution for chasers 3/4 of the year. All we're asking for is to be the focus the 1/4 of the year when it really matters. I don't think it's asking much to be the favored demographic 25% of the time. And even more, I don't think that, when it comes to making chasers a priority on StormTrack, the opinions of non-chasers should hold merit in that decision...since it's obvious it's the other way around 100% of the time (by current rules).

Then again, it's a moot point with some chasers already anyway.

[David Drummond]

I think you guys are overreacting just a bit. Just consider that a GREAT DEAL of discussion and consideration is going on among the mods and admin in a effort to make the best possible decision regarding these.

I don't think we're overreacting, because of the quote above...that a deliberation is needed to decide this issue (that shouldn't even be an issue) is cause for alarm IMO. We shouldn't even be having this conversation.

It's not cause for alarm Shane. Deliberation on any changes in any medium that affects the majority of it's users is always prefered to making a half-hazard decision and then regretting it later.

[Chris Foltz]

It's not cause for alarm Shane. Deliberation on any changes in any medium that affects the majority of it's users is always prefered to making a half-hazard decision and then regretting it later.

But see David, that's were the rub lies. It seems as though the decision to boot reports from the Maproom to W&C was made in a hap-hazard way without input from the users of the forum. I don't understand why a poll wasn't set up as so many people in this thread suggested. It seems as though one or two of the mod/admin are controlling the situation. While Tim runs the board and can do as he pleases, it doesn't appear he's opposed to having reports in the Maproom as Rob pointed out. It's very confusing when changes are made without addressing the reasons for those changes...

[Aaron Kennedy]

I'd be patient till Tim takes the time out of his busy schedule to comment.

I still (and always) have supported a pure thread in Map Room with only first hand accounts. Discussion threads would be allowed in the Weather room, but I want a clear and concise place to be able to simply scroll through and see everyone's catches.

Aaron

[Jeff Miller]

1. Went to Weather and Chasing to find reports.

2. Found Jay's first "Reports" thread for 3-4 I saw last night was mysteriously missing and a new one was started.

3. After a moment of mind confusion noticed that the first "Reports" thread slipped under while the main one now is growing, and wondering why these two threads have not been merged already. Granted in this format, reports threads will always seem to get buried in such a high traffic environment, so no wonder.

4. Shook head in frustration at the lack of organization and seeming chaos in this new format.

5. Decided to come here to see if this was being discussed. Yep.

6. Posted this thread stating my thoughts on the matter, will shake my head a couple times, and will check back tonight to see if anyone else feels as confused about this format as I do.

[APritchard]

and will check back tonight to see if anyone else feels as confused about this format as I do.

heheh, apparently you didnt read the previous posts :wink:

[Jeff Snyder]

1. Went to Weather and Chasing to find reports.

2. Found Jay's first "Reports" thread for 3-4 I saw last night was mysteriously missing and a new one was started.


I moved Jay's REPORTS thread out of the Map Room and into W&C per the rules. His thread was not deleted (nor a new one started).

3. After a moment of mind confusion noticed that the first "Reports" thread slipped under while the main one now is growing, and wondering why these two threads have not been merged already. Granted in this format, reports threads will always seem to get buried in such a high traffic environment, so no wonder.


As a note, we cannot "merge" threads. We can split threads, but we cannot merge them. It'd be nice if we could, but I think that's a software limitation.

[Jeff Miller]

1. Went to Weather and Chasing to find reports.

2. Found Jay's first "Reports" thread for 3-4 I saw last night was mysteriously missing and a new one was started.

I moved Jay's REPORTS thread out of the Map Room and into W&C per the rules. His thread was not deleted (nor a new one started).

Right. I was just saying what it APPEARED to look like. I should have rephrased it "I saw last night appeared to have mysteriously disapearred, when in reality it simply fell about 5 or 10 rungs lost in the traffic."

[Mike Umscheid]

It just seems to me that the preservation of well-written chase accounts with photos/vid caps, etc.. should be the main mission of Stormtrack.org. The current system as I see it does not emphasize this whatsoever. If there is not a unique storage place for chase accounts/photos/vid caps, etc (i.e. a forum folder of it's own) then I don't believe that Stormtrack.org would be serving chasers as it has in the past. Essentially, Stormtrack.org has become just a big lounge of chasers, chaser wannabes, and other severe weather enthusiasts to "chit chat". I see no problem with this, but at the same time, Stormtrack needs to be a place to read stories, real accounts, etc. about specific events and such. I think Stormtrack.org has lost sight of this given the overwhelming popularity of forum chatter. If it is decided that reports will remain amidst all the other chasing related discussions, then I *may* consider not posting detailed chase accounts on ST.org anymore and just save all that for my blog page. Anyway, it is something to seriously consider. It could be as simple as just creating a special folder for just chase accounts. I've been an advocate of this for awhile now.

Mike U

[mikegeukes]

What will happen, if not already happening, is more and
more chasers will not post to the forum and will not even
bother looking at the forum. Just a opinion of mine.

Mike

[APritchard]

What will happen, if not already happening, is more and
more chasers will not post to the forum and will not even
bother looking at the forum. Just a opinion of mine.

Mike

Thats already happening.. I'm certainly no big deal myself.. but I've already found myself checking this forum less and less, because the quality just isnt there anymore.

[Dan Robinson]

There will be problems with any format that is chosen. All online forums have these types of issues, it isn't an ST issue or even a chaser forum issue. I personally prefer the reports in the Map Room with only first-hand accounts allowed in the thread, but if that doesn't happen I'm willing to work with whatever the consensus is.

There is too much practical value in keeping connected with other chasers to jump ship from ST over this. There will always be annoying issues with any forum, but none so far are enough of a reason to stop participating.

[Dick McGowan]

What will happen, if not already happening, is more and
more chasers will not post to the forum and will not even
bother looking at the forum. Just a opinion of mine.

Mike

Thats already happening.. I'm certainly no big deal myself.. but I've already found myself checking this forum less and less, because the quality just isnt there anymore.

I'll have to agree to a degree. I check this place a lot less than I used to. I hate looking through piles and piles of redundant crap in all sections. I won't read 90 percent of the stuff that's posted. People are frightened by the fact that they might be scrutinized or violate some sort of rule, that Stormtrack is obviously proud of. Telling newcomers to "Search" for a thread or some bitter old man playing the Stormtrack police officer (not a moderator) will surely scare people off.



Dick

[rdale]

"I won't read 90 percent of the stuff that's posted. People are frightened by the fact that they might be scrutinized or violate some sort of rule, that Stormtrack is obviously proud of. "

So 90% of the posts are crap, so what's exactly "scaring" valid posters away?

[Jay McCoy]

I know my reports are not the top of the heap.. I am nowhere near the photog that Mike U or Hollingshead are. their pictures are breathtaking but after 10-12 hrs on the road to come home, download pics and write up a chase report just so it can get lost in a day under some topics like 19** radar caps or tornado ratings from 1955-57 is frustrating and makes me wonder why I would do it.

We spend alot of time and effort to bring chasing images and reports to everybody on the board so they can have some experience of the chase. a small taste of what we saw. Sometimes its me writing it and sometimes it Kanani because she is better at expressing the feeling of the chase but I want everybody to read it. I enjoy that.

All we ask is to have the reports saved in a special place for viewing like its own section or under Maproom. ( i like the idea of a seperate section myself so Maproom can be for forecasts and now). ST has been the place of chase reports for almost 30 yrs. I havent always been on here but have been out there for over 20yrs now.

[Dick McGowan]

"I won't read 90 percent of the stuff that's posted. People are frightened by the fact that they might be scrutinized or violate some sort of rule, that Stormtrack is obviously proud of. "

So 90% of the posts are crap, so what's exactly "scaring" valid posters away?

The Stormtrack police. Noise. Redundant threads.

[Shane Adams]

Originally posted by Dan Robinson

There is too much practical value in keeping connected with other chasers to jump ship from ST over this. There will always be annoying issues with any forum, but none so far are enough of a reason to stop participating.

I have no plans to jump ship. I'm simply no longer posting chase reports or any other news regarding my actual chasing. As far as the other forums, I'm sure I'll still participate (to some degree), but now that storm season is here, I don't expect to be around much for the next three months or so.

[Dick McGowan]

If this is such a big deal and a timely consensus can not be met, ( and a lot of stormchasers are already aware of ) we have designed a site to cater to chasers. We have an organized forum that places different categories as you would see here on Stormtrack, but broken down into different categories, including a seperate section for chase logs, nowcast, and a "live chase" (as well as forecast).

We also have a digital photography section where chasers can post photography (of all sorts), critique, and help each other out with certatin questions. We also run a monthly competition depending on the month. This months is "wall clouds". So I welcome you to our site.

http://www.stormchasers.org

[Glen Romine]

First off - for the stormchasers.org crowd - if it's such a hassle over here, and you have your own forum to run as you wish, then why are you bothering to try and control the structure of this board? Most everyone knows you exist by now - and if they can't stand the format here enough then maybe they will move to your board. You don't need to continually try and recruit on this board on every hot-button issue. Obviously, ST has a large crowd base, what they need to worry about is how to keep it. So - what it boils down to is if a few 'real' chasers dissatisfied with the format leave, will it really adversely affect the board? Anyone who recalls the big 'Core' scandal from last year knows that threat of 'real chasers' leaving is a non-issue for the brass, and among that crowd involved nearly all remain at the same activity level as before. So, enough with the threats of leaving - it's not like any one of us are that important to keeping the machine running.

Back to the issue of where to have reports - I'm still fond of the idea of a Trophy Room. But, this has been suggested for at least 3 years running and has yet to get any serious consideration. As for posting chase reports to blogs - I think that is absolutely the way to go - and I'd actually prefer to see more chasers use those and only place a link to it with a short summary post at ST.

Glen

[Amos Magliocco]

Originally posted by Dick McGowan
We have an organized forum that places different categories as you would see here on Stormtrack, but broken down into different categories, including a seperate section for chase logs, nowcast, and a "live chase" (as well as forecast).
We also have a digital photography section where chasers can post photography (of all sorts), critique, and help each other out with certatin questions. We also run a monthly competition depending on the month. This months is "wall clouds". So I welcome you to our site.

http://www.stormchasers.org

I want to put in a good word for stormchasers.org because I think the internet is big enough for both sites and there are plenty of chasers and chasing enthusiasts to keep both busy. The new forum is targetted more directly to chasers, in my opinion, and the emphasis on digital photography gives it a distinct style.

I also appreciate the job Tim and the moderators do with Stormtrack. I've been a supporter of this monikor for many years. I was a moderator for a year and, back in the stone age, an article of mine was in the print version. But chasing is growing and different resources address different segments. There's nothing wrong with that.

[Tony Laubach]

Glen, you have a good point, but if you step on toes long enough, people will move to stormchasers.org, and when laziness kicks in, the "elite" will start posting solely in one or the other, and weather the brass here is worried or not, once you start losing chasers here, you're not going to be left with much cause there is NOW another forum available to them which was not back in the "core" issues days. And whether anyone wants to admit it or not, that's a concern for everyone here cause Stormtrack is suppose to be serving chasers... and now that these issues are in light in conjunction with another board, its something I think needs to be addressed here, cause the brass will have concern when those chasers start posting elsewhere.

And of course with blogging becoming so popular, there's another thing... cause chasers will start keeping their repots to their own pages...

[David Drummond]

Originally posted by Dick McGowan

Telling newcomers to "Search" for a thread or some bitter old man playing the Stormtrack police officer (not a moderator) will surely scare people off.



Dick

Dick,

It's common practice on practically every other message board on the internet (at least that I have come across and use, and there are a lot of them) to ask new people to learn to use the search feature. It's whole purpose is to be able to find specific information, probably something that is already posted before. There is no reason the ST forums should be any different.

People already talk about having to see the same old things brought up time after time asked about. If people would use the search feature when looking for something, chances are many times it's already been posted about.

That's one thing that makes forums so powerful, IS being able to do that. It makes it a great repository of information and opinions. But that is only as useful as the user is willing to make use of the search feature. Telling people to use it is not to put them off, many people new to message boards don't even know HOW to use it.

[Matthew Havin]

Sorry to interject, but I wanted to tell you guys....

My Board is bigger than your Board.

March bickering like this is why I am glad the season is about to begin.... we need something to do!

[Dan Robinson]

Originally posted by David Drummond+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(David Drummond)</div><!--QuoteBegin-Dick McGowan

Telling newcomers to "Search" for a thread or some bitter old man playing the Stormtrack police officer (not a moderator) will surely scare people off.
It's common practice on practically every other message board on the internet (at least that I have come across and use, and there are a lot of them) to ask new people to learn to use the search feature. [/b]

Most other forums that I am a member of practice this and other stringent topic organization policies. A typical technique is to have 'one stop' threads for the most common topics that come up over and over again.

The cellular internet/ WXWorx threads on ST are a good example of this. Every few weeks there is a new topic nearly identical to the old ones. In fairness, it is somewhat inconvenient for a new poster to search through the old posts, but it is also inconvenient for everyone else to re-type (and in some cases copy-and-paste verbatim) the same responses again and again.

But, this and the other problems are minor issues, guys. All forums are like this. It's going to be a problem on stormchasers.org too or any other forum that is started. But we can live with it. More strict forum rules are actually becoming more commonplace across the internet on nearly *every* forum I frequent. It is neccessary to have some rules and order in things, there is no reason to be afraid to post or go elsewhere. Let's just work on a solution like we are doing and do the best we can.

[George Tincher]

Originally posted by Amos Magliocco+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Amos Magliocco)</div><!--QuoteBegin-Dick McGowan
We have an organized forum that places different categories as you would see here on Stormtrack, but broken down into different categories, including a seperate section for chase logs, nowcast, and a "live chase" (as well as forecast).
We also have a digital photography section where chasers can post photography (of all sorts), critique, and help each other out with certatin questions. We also run a monthly competition depending on the month. This months is "wall clouds". So I welcome you to our site.

http://www.stormchasers.org

I want to put in a good word for stormchasers.org because I think the internet is big enough for both sites and there are plenty of chasers and chasing enthusiasts to keep both busy. The new forum is targetted more directly to chasers, in my opinion, and the emphasis on digital photography gives it a distinct style.

I also appreciate the job Tim and the moderators do with Stormtrack. I've been a supporter of this monikor for many years. I was a moderator for a year and, back in the stone age, an article of mine was in the print version. But chasing is growing and different resources address different segments. There's nothing wrong with that.[/b]

Well said Amos. There is room for both boards in the world and there's no reason why anyone who wishes can't be a member of both. Besides, we also still have the WX-Chase list. It and ST were able to co-exist. And in the end, you usually have the same people who sign up and post to all of them anway.

As far as bringing up the stormchasers.org forums, I don't see what the problem is. It's not like anyone is "pimpin" it out here. However, it is very relevent to the discussion. Looking at this thread, it's obvious a majority of the people here want a dedicated forum to post logs to, one that groups all the day's posts together and keeps them in order. Since there is an obvious demand for that, if ST isn't willing to provide it, stormchasers.org is. There is nothing wrong with telling the people here where they can go to get what they what. Afterall, IMHO, the people who make up our sites are more important than the sites. Without the people, what do you have?

I have no problem in being up front and letting everyone here know that I am in fact a moderator at stormchasers.org. Does that mean I hate ST and want to steal all of it's members? Of course not! I plan on remaining a member here myself and I post fairly regularly. In fact, I am as active now as I've ever been. The same can be said for many other people who are members of both forums. The goal of stormchasers.org is not to attempt to put ST out of business or somehow "compete" with ST. The goal is to simply have an alternative. Alternatives can be nice. In fact, for the many people who have expressed concern about the REPORTS thread situation and wish it was like it use to be, I would be willing to bet that they would appreciate having a forum that offers what they are so passionately seeking. I for one am happy they now have such an option, be it here or elsewhere.

As for how the REPORTS issue is resolved, I will still hang around here regardless of what decision is made. But this much I can say: Unless REPORTS is changed back to the old format where all the day's events (if the same storm system) are grouped together in the same thread, with only first person accounts being allowed, I for one will only be checking the reports threads on the other board. Trying to sort through numerous seperate threads by numerous people, all dealing with the same day and in a high traffic forum would be like dealing with a zoo. I have no desire to do that. And I bet a majority of the people here would agree.

Anyway, I wish for the best in this matter being resolved. Hopefully a decision can be reached soon and all the users can move on to other things, with Spring reapidly approaching.

-George

[mikegeukes]

I have decided not to post to any weather forums, anymore.
Not worth the time and effort anymore, and my blog is removed.

Mike

[Glen Romine]

For the record, I'm not trying to bash stormchasers.org - I just don't think there should be effort on their part to try and modify the structure on ST. In fact - I think they have the greatest opportunity to benefit from NOT having the same structure as ST. In general, I've found the posts there to be very similar to those on ST - just with far fewer contributors. The opportunity is here for them to do things differently - and there is no problem imo with pointing out that there is an alternative format elsewhere - but do it, and be done, and don't try to make ST a clone for your chosen format. Lead by example - do a format that chasers in your group contribute to regularly, and show that it is the format chaser's prefer. Everyone who cares about this issue has had a chance to voice their preference, why not give Tim time to try his experiment and see if it works out here. If the format of reports posts is a dividing issue - that seems to benefit everyone if there are indeed unique alternatives.

Glen

[Mike Peregrine]

I'm enjoying the other forum as well, mainly for the reasons already mentioned. But the reality is that if everyone here simply moves over there, the same issues are bound to eventually exist. In fact, any other forum or email list is ultimately destined to encounter the same basic causes for complaint as those encountered in Stormtrack. Wx-chase used to be a pretty hot list ... Stormtrack then regained popularity with many core chasers and took over as the big dog on the block, and now wx-chase is light on activity ... but the exact same issues that caused wx-chase to fall in popularity are now facing Stormtrack in much the same way. Each of these lists experiences waves in activity that rise and fall as a result of trends in popularity, basically. In fact, because of these trends, we may even see a day when wx-chase could alter its structure somehow and manage to regain popularity and become 'in vogue' with core chasers again. Strange, but true.

So far, I'm enjoying the other forum and feel like it is in tune with what people are currently looking for. But the hard truth is that we can keep making splinter groups that might accomodate some trend in the prior list we didn't care for ... but no matter what is done - at the end of the day, there will be something that folks become discontent over, because this is about COMMUNITY more than anything else. For chasers, Stormtrack is a community. A person can become discontent and complain about their community - enough that someday they might actually move, usually in an effort to find more comfortability and sense of belonging. But usually, their problems will indeed follow them to their new town. At some point, the other forum will have its own trial by fire ... an issue will come up that will not satisfy everyone, and there will be a big fuss. I stamp my guarantee on it. It may not come for a matter of a couple of years even ... but it will come.

Personally, the lists for me are just a means of having fun and passing time now more than anything else. At some point a structure may well come along that hits the nail on the head and becomes THE resource from now on, but I'm still pretty convinced that this comes with creating more (or better) structure, and not losing structure. We'll just have to wait and see where the tide carries us - - -

Now - the weather should really become the main focus on all of our plates. I sure hope that folks are watching models this week, because we're in for a ride, it looks like. I say we forget this stuff for a few days and go for a chase!

[John Erwin]

I'm just curious why the site would be re-tooled just prior to the active season; does it not make sense to do this AFTER the season so that sufficient time is available to discuss the pros and cons? The mods/admins must be under a lot of pressure regarding this topic.. I'm sure they would rather concentrate on other items.

For what it's worth, I would agree with the majority of people who have weighed in here and suggest leaving things as Status Quo (reports in TA). Not sure why a radical change would be made in haste... and then discuss the matter afterwards for a protracted period of time. Shouldn't it have been discussed thoroughly beforehand?

[Justin Walker]

I didn't want to start a new thread....but I like the changes! Good job guys!

[Tim Vasquez]

Because I've been tied up with the spring conferences and business, I haven't read this thread in detail, so credit for the latest change goes largely to the moderator team, who distilled the essence of this thread and debated it on a series of 5 internal pages. I decided to allow DISC in the Reports forum, so that you all have elbow room to discuss incidents, phenomena, and observations that don't fit in the FCST/NOW/REPORT threads. There could be some tweaking regarding DISC, so stay tuned just in case.

Tim

[John Erwin]

Tim,

I think the new "Chase Forecasts" and "Chase Reports" sections are the best possible compromise to this issue, and will work out well. Thank you!

[Laura Duchesne]

This change was badly needed in my opinion, so thank you Tim and moderators for coming up with this solution! 8)

[Morgan Palmer]

I waited a day or so to evaluate the new structure, and I think it meets all our needs very very well. As a former mod, I will tell you changes like this take a lot of time and discussion before putting into effect. Nice work, guys and gal.

mp

[Bill Tabor]

What exactly is the complaint about Stormtrack? Why did anyone move or create another forum? I just don't get it. I haven't really experienced any problem with the format that I recall. The only thing I can think of that bothers me is not being able to respond in comments to others chase reports. This is kind of an on again off again thing and now we can do that in DISC section even though not directly under the same thread.

There will always be things each of us would like to improve, and all of us will never agree. Creating structure and organization will always conflict with creative freedom. It's a tradeoff, but there are reasons for structure and there is a place for freedom.

Anyway, I guess let me know what the big deal is. Maybe I just haven't paid attention and there is a real issue or point to be made.

[Laura Duchesne]

What's wrong with creating another forum? There's no big deal. All of us still like to visit Stormtrack. I think it was created just as another place to go check out. I like SC's emphasis on photography. The rules are also just a bit more relaxed. It's just something for fun, and it shouldn't be viewed as competition because it isn't.

[Shane Adams]

I'm on three different storm chasing chatboards, because there is no perfect board. What I get at ST I can't get on the others, and vice versa. Not a big deal.

[Dick McGowan]

Bill,

Perhaps you should have read the last 6 pages or so, of why there was an issue. The problem is now resolved on Stormtrack.

In response to us creating another forum:

Why not? There should always be more than one opportunity out there to go to. (And stormchasers.org is not the only one) Would you like just having the option of going to Wallie World ? Just like your membership to WX-CHASE, (and I see you there QUITE frequently and recently) it's an outlet. There's room for two or three or 20, and like Laura said, there is no competition between the any of these. If you don't like any of the boards, then simply don't sign up or go over there. Pretty simple stuff we're dealing with here.

I also visit both forums (as well as others), and enjoy reading what others (most) have to say about certain topics. You can't please everyone, so you must do what you think is best for the forum and it's contributors. Again, simply said. I am still learning to use this board compared to phpbb, so it will take some time, but overall I like the format.




Dick