Glaciers disappearing from Kilimanjaro

John Farley · 11-02-2009, 02:57 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/science...ers/index.html

85% decrease in the mass of the glaciers on Mt. Kilimanjaro from 1912 to 2007, and a 26% decrease just from 2000 to 2007.

Mike Smith · 11-02-2009, 03:23 PM

What in the world does this have to do with "weather and chasing"?

John, I withdraw my comment. I thought this thread should be in "bar and grill" but I see there is no "bar and grill" any longer. Mods: Could we bring it back?

Skip Talbot · 11-02-2009, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Smith

Mods: Could we bring it back?

Mike, the Bar and Grill hasn't gone anywhere, you just have to enable it in your control panel. At the top click Quick Links -> User Control Panel. Under Networking click Group Memberships and Enable Bar and Grill.

Marcus Hicks · 11-02-2009, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Smith

What in the world does this have to do with "weather and chasing"?

John, I withdraw my comment. I thought this thread should be in "bar and grill" but I see there is no "bar and grill" any longer. Mods: Could we bring it back?

Go into your cp and add it. You have to subscribe to the Bar & Grill now

Mike Smith · 11-02-2009, 04:09 PM

Done.

Thanks Skip and Marcus!

Mike

Jason Harris · 11-03-2009, 08:28 AM

Ah, I see Mike is always eager to crush a climate change thread, or anything related, but John Farley's post is relevant to the guidelines of "unusual temperatures" which is mentioned in Tim's rules. The big picture of climate is interesting to consider for weather anyhow.

Quote:

Similar changes are being reported at Mount Kenya and the Rwenzori Mountains in Africa and at glaciers in South America and the Himalayas.

"The fact that so many glaciers throughout the tropics and subtropics are showing similar responses suggests an underlying common cause," Thompson said in a statement. "The increase of Earth's near surface temperatures, coupled with even greater increases in the mid- to upper-tropical troposphere, as documented in recent decades, would at least partially explain" the observations.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091102/...of_kilimanjaro

Mike Smith · 11-03-2009, 10:35 AM

Jason,

If you will read what I wrote, I was not attempting to "crush" a thread but have it located in the right place. Global warming is a contentious issue for many and "Bar and Grill" is the better place from my perspective.

However, since you opened the door by citing "unusual temperatures", please provide evidence that temperatures in the specific area of the glacier have run far above normal for the 2000-2007 period. Those are the only temperatures pertinent to a discussion about temperatures and that glacier.

Otherwise, this is a better explanation: http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/0...rubbish-again/

Mike

John Farley · 11-03-2009, 10:59 AM

As Jason suggests, I put it here because I thought it related to issues of weather and climate. In the link Mike provided I saw mention in various comments of unusual dryness and stronger winds as possible explanations, in addition to warmer temperatures. All related to weather and climate, so I don't think it belongs in B&G. Note I did not say anything about the cause - but whatever is going on it affects more than just Kilimanjaro, because the article mentions there are similar declines in tropical mountain glaciers in other parts of the world.

Robert Edmonds · 11-03-2009, 11:26 AM

Since we're on the subject of climate change. With greenhouse gases increasing the IR optical depth, how much of the warming is instead contributed to a lowered albedo of the earth. That is the greenhouse gases increases surface temperatures, initiating some warming, thus causing ice to melt, which in turn would decrease albedo. This to me is potentially more dangerous since aren't most of the CO2 absorption bands fairly saturated as it is? It's also easy to derive that temperature of earth is proportional to (1-Albedo)^(1/4). I don't know that much about the subject as some, so perhaps another could chime in.

11-03-2009, 11:50 AM

As the article itelf mentions, once any dark ground surface is exposed, the decreased albedo results in a runaway exponentially-accelerating melting cycle. So the point of argument would be at the moment that the first significant uncovering of bare ground around the glaciers occured, and what caused that to happen. From that point onward, the 'runaway' accelerating melting rates would be a factor of local albedo change, not any shift in world climate.

11-02-2009, 02:57 PM	#1
John Farley Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Edwardsville, IL Posts: 778 Thanks: 58 Thanked 27 Times in 17 Posts	Glaciers disappearing from Kilimanjaro http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/science...ers/index.html 85% decrease in the mass of the glaciers on Mt. Kilimanjaro from 1912 to 2007, and a 26% decrease just from 2000 to 2007. __________________ John Farley Edwardsville, IL

11-02-2009, 03:23 PM	#2
Mike Smith Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Wichita Posts: 832 Thanks: 73 Thanked 61 Times in 37 Posts	What in the world does this have to do with "weather and chasing"? John, I withdraw my comment. I thought this thread should be in "bar and grill" but I see there is no "bar and grill" any longer. Mods: Could we bring it back? Last edited by Mike Smith; 11-02-2009 at 03:29 PM.

11-03-2009, 10:59 AM	#8
John Farley Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Edwardsville, IL Posts: 778 Thanks: 58 Thanked 27 Times in 17 Posts	As Jason suggests, I put it here because I thought it related to issues of weather and climate. In the link Mike provided I saw mention in various comments of unusual dryness and stronger winds as possible explanations, in addition to warmer temperatures. All related to weather and climate, so I don't think it belongs in B&G. Note I did not say anything about the cause - but whatever is going on it affects more than just Kilimanjaro, because the article mentions there are similar declines in tropical mountain glaciers in other parts of the world. __________________ John Farley Edwardsville, IL

11-03-2009, 11:26 AM	#9
Robert Edmonds Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: New Mexico Posts: 565 Thanks: 4 Thanked 11 Times in 8 Posts	Since we're on the subject of climate change. With greenhouse gases increasing the IR optical depth, how much of the warming is instead contributed to a lowered albedo of the earth. That is the greenhouse gases increases surface temperatures, initiating some warming, thus causing ice to melt, which in turn would decrease albedo. This to me is potentially more dangerous since aren't most of the CO2 absorption bands fairly saturated as it is? It's also easy to derive that temperature of earth is proportional to (1-Albedo)^(1/4). I don't know that much about the subject as some, so perhaps another could chime in. __________________ nmstormchase.blogspot.com

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11-02-2009, 04:09 PM	#5
Mike Smith Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Wichita Posts: 832 Thanks: 73 Thanked 61 Times in 37 Posts	Done. Thanks Skip and Marcus! Mike

11-03-2009, 10:35 AM	#7
Mike Smith Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Wichita Posts: 832 Thanks: 73 Thanked 61 Times in 37 Posts	Jason, If you will read what I wrote, I was not attempting to "crush" a thread but have it located in the right place. Global warming is a contentious issue for many and "Bar and Grill" is the better place from my perspective. However, since you opened the door by citing "unusual temperatures", please provide evidence that temperatures in the specific area of the glacier have run far above normal for the 2000-2007 period. Those are the only temperatures pertinent to a discussion about temperatures and that glacier. Otherwise, this is a better explanation: http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/0...rubbish-again/ Mike

11-03-2009, 11:50 AM	#10
Dan Robinson Guest Posts: n/a	As the article itelf mentions, once any dark ground surface is exposed, the decreased albedo results in a runaway exponentially-accelerating melting cycle. So the point of argument would be at the moment that the first significant uncovering of bare ground around the glaciers occured, and what caused that to happen. From that point onward, the 'runaway' accelerating melting rates would be a factor of local albedo change, not any shift in world climate.